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Gaz
2009-05-15, 09:20
UPDATE


Just to update everyone with the status of the release. The Patch is pretty much ready to go out, and we are now awaiting the release of the BF2 1.5 Patch to ensure it will run with no errors. We have been testing the 1.5 Beta with our Patch, and things look good.

To that end we hope to release a few days after the BF2 1.5 Patch.

Thank you for your patience.
-The Project Reality Team

________________________________________________

We are currently putting the finishing touches on the Project Reality v0.86 patch. You may have seen some of the changes and features posted in the weekly Developer Journals (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-dev-journal.html) and Blogs (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/blogs/), but it is now time to officially release everything that will be included in the upcoming patch.

We had initially planned to release the PR v0.86 patch at a much earlier date, but encountered a few complications that had to be addressed. The release date will be posted once everything is ironed out and finalized, but you should expect a release prior to the end of May 2009.


Project Reality and Battlefield 2 v1.5 Patch
The Project Reality v0.86 patch is meant to be run on Battlefield 2 v1.41. PR v0.86 will not officially support Battlefield 2 v1.5, since the final release date of the patch has yet to be announced by EA. Once the BF2 v1.5 patch has been released, we will develop, if necessary, a PR v0.87 “hotfix” to fix any compatibility issues that arise. Until that time, we would advise the community to hold fire on installing the new BF2 patch if you wish to play Project Reality.


Project Reality v0.86 Teaser
Since there is not a lot of "eye candy" to show off for the v0.86 patch, here is a small promotional video with loads of textual information:

<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m-BTOtEcLGw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&ap=%2526fmt%3D22"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m-BTOtEcLGw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&ap=%2526fmt%3D22" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295" wmode="transparent"></embed></object>


Project Reality v0.86 Features
As with any patch release, the main focus of PR v0.86 is bug and stability fixes, though we have also managed to squeeze in a few new assets and features. Here are a couple screen shots of some of the newly added content:

WZ551A and QJC-88 HMG
http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/wz551a01_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/wz551a01.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/wz551a02_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/wz551a02.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/wz551a03_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/wz551a03.jpg)

M249 with ELCAN Scope
http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/m249elcan01_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/m249elcan01.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/m249elcan02_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/m249elcan02.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/m249elcan03_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/m249elcan03.jpg)

Various Main Menu Updates and a New Splash Screen
http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/newsticker_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/newsticker.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/autodeploy_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/autodeploy.jpg) http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/thumbs/splashscreen_thumb.jpg (http://media.realitymod.com/news/pr086/may09update/splashscreen.jpg)

For a comprehensive list of all of the changes, features, and new assets in the patch, check this Developer Blog Entry (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/blogs/1491/b43-project-reality-v0-86-tweaks-new-features.html).


Project Reality v0.86 Server Release Information
All current PR server license holders will be sent the Project Reality v0.86 server files once they become available. Those of you hoping to start up a new PR server must complete a Project Reality server license application.

Apply for a Project Reality Server License Here (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/licenseapp.php)


Project Reality v0.86 Manual
To see a full list of all the important changes made in the Project Reality v0.86 patch and for a comprehensive guide, check out the recently updated Official Project Reality Manual:

Download the Project Reality v0.86 Manual Here
(http://realitymodfiles.com/dbzao/PR_Manual.pdf)

The Project Reality Wiki Guide is currently undergoing a drastic overhaul and is currently offline. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Once the Wiki is complete and back online, an official news post will be made announcing its return.


Project Reality IRC Channel
While you are waiting for the v0.86 patch, we would like to invite everyone to join the Official Project Reality IRC Channel (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/52324-project-reality-irc.html) to have some fun and chat about the upcoming release. You never know what sort of interesting bits of information might be given out!


Special Thanks to the =TCC= Community
We would like to extend a special thanks out to the =TCC= TCombat.com Community (http://tcc.tcombat.com), who have been supplying game servers and testers for Project Reality for quite some time now. They have been working hard behind the scenes helping us prepare the PR v0.86 patch and without their support we would not have been able to prepare it in a timely manner. Your guys’ contributions are greatly appreciated!



- The Project Reality Team

MrSh@vid
2009-05-15, 09:42
Looks great fellas!

P.S. 2nd

Cheditor
2009-05-15, 09:47
When tanks are taken off qwai does that include TOW humvees? Hope so or could be over kill for chinese.

DankE_SPB
2009-05-15, 09:49
When tanks are taken off qwai does that include TOW humvees? Hope so or could be over kill for chinese.

US gets only 1 TOW and 4 Strykers, Log truck(or 2), maybe a HMMWV(or 2:mrgreen:)

cyberzomby
2009-05-15, 10:07
Sweet update :) Lets hope Im not in my little holiday when this gets released :o! Looking forward to the new updates and see how they play out with large number of players!

@the cool movie: looks like someone knows videocopilot.net :) Always great inspiration for movies!

White Rock
2009-05-15, 10:09
Still two minutes for civvies...

Oh well at least you removed the 5 minute spawn when shot.

Nice additions, would like to have seen you make insurgents stronger then right now.

Scandicci
2009-05-15, 10:11
That looks pretty cool. It will be strange not to hear tanks rolling around on Qwai.

solid84
2009-05-15, 10:17
can not wait :)

Cpl.Small
2009-05-15, 10:34
Whoop whoop, not long to go now then :)

Blade.3510
2009-05-15, 11:31
im so excited i cant contain myself.......whens the one after this out lol @_@(kidding)

ozliam41
2009-05-15, 11:34
cool hope fully we will all like it

MattyAndo09
2009-05-15, 11:46
Cant wait to try out the scope on the LMG's :)

Robbi
2009-05-15, 12:03
Another front page made :p

Hopefully shouldnt be too much longer peeps :D

Squaddie09
2009-05-15, 12:20
This looks mint! Cant wait to get me hands on this :p

Maxfragg
2009-05-15, 13:04
changed USMC Officer & Heavy AT classes to now use M4 variants.
did you read that? i mean its not so bad, i just don't get why they did it

MaxBooZe
2009-05-15, 13:04
USMC officers do actually use M4s..

WilsonPL
2009-05-15, 13:13
what about tandem warhead for russian rpg ? : (

smee
2009-05-15, 13:16
looking very nice lots of positive things by the sounds of it.

SgtFailure
2009-05-15, 13:18
awww...no more uber pwnage with the AKS-74 anymore :(

Outlawz7
2009-05-15, 13:40
Already seen the teaser last week because it's been on YT since May 6th...

addaco
2009-05-15, 14:27
Looking awesome, thanks PR devs!

HunterMed
2009-05-15, 14:30
sweet!

looking forward to it

Aquiller
2009-05-15, 14:43
Sweet! You've just earned $5!

Priby
2009-05-15, 14:43
Weeee sweet! Cant wait!
Sadly im on a festival from the 28th to the 31th:sad:
So probably no enjoyment for me.

Edit: Just checked the list. The new revive system is awesome!

Gaz
2009-05-15, 14:48
Already seen the teaser last week because it's been on YT since May 6th...

If that was an attempt at a smartarse comment, you fail. It's been there since May 4th ;)

White Rock
2009-05-15, 15:10
Civilians may be run over with a vehicle or shot while using vehicles, ladders
or ropes without any penalty or bonus. There is also no penalty for shooting
them if they used a weapon, vehicle or their medical equipment in the last 60
seconds.

Wait what? Does that mean you can shoot at rock throwing civvies?

I thought the Civvie was already gimped.. sheesh.

BlackMagikz
2009-05-15, 15:29
Wait what? Does that mean you can shoot at rock throwing civvies?

I thought the Civvie was already gimped.. sheesh.

i hopez not :(

BloodyDeed
2009-05-15, 15:55
Great, cant wait to play it ;)
And AfterDune...a very nice trailer...nice editing but maybe a too much information during too few time.
I had to stop the video a few times to read all the stuff.

Gore
2009-05-15, 15:59
Omglulz I gotz 29th post!!

..

Looks good, looking forward to play it.

McBumLuv
2009-05-15, 16:07
:P fine DB, I'll continue the discussion here :p

Anyways, glad to see most things are fixed. I'll miss the LBs and Tanks on Qwai River, though. But overall it's a good patch fixing all the bugs. BTW, I love the splash screen :D

StuTika
2009-05-15, 16:13
Nice one devs, on the whole a nice little patch, but can I ask why a small patch so soon after releasing .85 was necessary? Did you consider some parts of PR so broken you had to issue a patch?

And there are a few things that - at first glance - I'm not too happy about.

The new medic system, the 60s timer thing sounds interesting, but what if I'm revived and healed up to full health in 30 secs. For all intents and purposes, I'm a fully healthy soldier. Does this patch mean that if I'm shot once in the next 30s I'll instantly die, even though I was at full health? And do headshots kill now?

I know it was suggested that the no. of mags for the Taliban/Insurgent SVD be increased, but isn't 12 mags too much for these factions? Wouldn't 6 or 8 be more appropriate?

Also, G3A3 mags. Why decrease the number when MEC already only carry 180 rounds (IMO a realistic amount) due to G3 mags being 20 rounders? Now MEC have half the ammo of other factions.

What is this epipen damage?

Why so little Humvee Avenger .50 ammo?

Not too keen on removing tanks and little birds from Qwai either, seems like the map won't be as interesting now. If the low view distance is the problem, why can't it be increased? Performance issues?

I'll have to see how things play out, and apart from those niggles, there are stacks of bug fixes and cool new stuff so yeah, good one :).

Stu.

Zoddom
2009-05-15, 16:20
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nice announcer video REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO 0.86 !!!! :-o:-o:-o

Rudd
2009-05-15, 16:40
Nice one devs, on the whole a nice little patch, but can I ask why a small patch so soon after releasing .85 was necessary? Did you consider some parts of PR so broken you had to issue a patch?

this patch is considered a bug fixer primarily

And there are a few things that - at first glance - I'm not too happy about.

The new medic system, the 60s timer thing sounds interesting, but what if I'm revived and healed up to full health in 30 secs. For all intents and purposes, I'm a fully healthy soldier. Does this patch mean that if I'm shot once in the next 30s I'll instantly die, even though I was at full health? And do headshots kill now?

This is to prevent zombie armies, don't you want to stop the zombies?

I know it was suggested that the no. of mags for the Taliban/Insurgent SVD be increased, but isn't 12 mags too much for these factions? Wouldn't 6 or 8 be more appropriate?

Play the build first :P

What is this epipen damage?

epipen was a weapon, now it isn't

Why so little Humvee Avenger .50 ammo?

Cuz its utterpwnage :D and should be used on aircraft

Not too keen on removing tanks and little birds from Qwai either, seems like the map won't be as interesting now. If the low view distance is the problem, why can't it be increased? Performance issues?

I feel this also, I would have liked a qwai_32 layer for what the Devs have got now

I'll have to see how things play out, and apart from those niggles, there are stacks of bug fixes and cool new stuff so yeah, good one :).

Stu.

:) looking forward to giving it a whirl.

hall0
2009-05-15, 16:48
Nice :D cant wait

ReaperMAC
2009-05-15, 16:49
Nice update DEVs :D.


Gaz;1023400']
Special Thanks
A special thanks to the =TCC= TCombat.com Community (http://tcc.tcombat.com/), who have been supplying servers and testers for Project Reality for a long time. They have been working behind the scenes and without their support we would not have been able to test and release this build in a timely manner. Much appreciated guys!

A VERY SPECIAL thanks from me as well, we couldn't have done this without you guys (really, we couldn't). Kudos to donating the test server AND mumble! :)

CyrusPI
2009-05-15, 17:01
Most other teasers boasting just text are poor and disgraceful. But this one was pretty awesome. :) Loved the music at 0:40. And all those neat text effects with the smoke. Who needs screenshots anymore? :p

Can't wait for these new fixes and add-ons. :D Thanks all who worked hard on it.

paratrooper[BG]
2009-05-15, 17:06
niceee very niceeee :)

Scheintot887
2009-05-15, 17:10
I cant wait, I cant wait for this Patch..
This Patch will be hardcore... I love this men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outlawz7
2009-05-15, 17:29
Nice one devs, on the whole a nice little patch, but can I ask why a small patch so soon after releasing .85 was necessary? Did you consider some parts of PR so broken you had to issue a patch?


Uh oh, 0.85 was released in January, it's May now. Also why not? Better than waiting 10 months for the new release for something that a patch could fix/update.

Technoelite
2009-05-15, 17:36
hmmm gaskin on muttrah and jabal what fun woot woot

StuTika
2009-05-15, 17:56
hmmm gaskin on muttrah and jabal what fun woot woot

Umm no not really Muttrah is an AA spam already, 0.86 really needed a AA teak :p.

And Rudd, thanks for clarifying that stuff :smile:.

I'll have to play it first obviously, and yes of course I want to stop the zombie onslaught, I guess it'll make you value your life after being revived!

Yeah the Avenger .50 is awesome, but surely surely IRL more than one box would be carried?! (can you clarify "should be used on aircraft"?)

Really want to keep tanks and choppers on Qwai!

And of course, the no. of mags for the SVD will be largely academic becuase a lot of people get killed before they use even half their ammo anyway!

Stu.

Vege
2009-05-15, 18:05
updated all limited kits to require only 2 players in the squad/select to request (except crewman/pilot). Also standardized other rules that required 3 players to be 2 players (cp capture, rally setting, rally destroying, FO destroying, etc)
Out of curiosity. Why was this done?
It's not like im against it but would be curious to know why it was reverted.

fuzzhead
2009-05-15, 18:36
all patch so soon after releasing .85 was necessary? Did you consider some parts of PR so broken you had to issue a patch?
Were trying to get into the habit of shorter/faster releases. v0.9 will probably be our last "Mega" update, after that we plan to release a new version every 3 months or so, which might not contain as much content as a full fledged, but will allow us to experiment more with gameplay changes and apply patches quicker.





Not too keen on removing tanks and little birds from Qwai either, seems like the map won't be as interesting now. If the low view distance is the problem, why can't it be increased? Performance issues?

Yes.

Charity Case
2009-05-15, 18:42
I'm really looking forward to this patch. I expect it will improve gameplay significantly.

RustyBandSaw
2009-05-15, 18:44
"All LMG's now have 4X Zoom." (or words to that effect)

Let's just give every damn kit a scope, and get it over with.

unrealalex
2009-05-15, 19:02
Man the presentation quality keeps improving and improving. It's almost hollywood like

Zrix
2009-05-15, 19:07
yay, cant wait :D

evya
2009-05-15, 19:09
:mrgreen: thats all which is needed to say:)

BulletFizz
2009-05-15, 19:22
Cool to see the engine disabling of the helicopters became implemented, remember seeing it as a suggestion a while ago. Will be very intresting to see how it plays out, aso the rpg tweaks, looks like i wount be as deadly to inf anymore and less accurate means you have to concentrate them. hmm yea im excited :-D

Bring on the patch!

JERICHO777
2009-05-15, 19:24
I AM SO HAPPY))))))))))))))

flickflackingfligger
2009-05-15, 19:48
hell yeah, looks awsome! but the video was a little weak though:mrgreen:

h3killa
2009-05-15, 20:11
Is it a true to gaming patch(where it is not the whole mod to download) or where we have to delete the old PR and reinstall it?

Simmage
2009-05-15, 20:34
Christmas has come early boys! :D :D :D

fuzzhead
2009-05-15, 20:34
The patch is aprox. 300mb, it will patch v0.85.

You can also download a full installer (core and levels).

Human_001
2009-05-15, 20:46
Wonderful changes. Thank you for many of fixes/updates we all waited for.
But there is few things that concerns me. And are listed below. I know I have not played this update yet, but I can imagine because these changes are adressed using precise % and numbers.

Changes:
"-4Xzoom for deployed LMG."
4X zoom on iron PKM and Al Qud.

"-360 degree view for APC."
We should've removed it from Tank not adding it to other vehicles.

"-Only 2 cache at a time"
means Insurgent have less PKM and Al Quds.
New RPG for each cache means there is cache 4 RPG instead of current 3. So this is not concern.

"- increased Insurgent/Taliban SVD Dragunov mag count from 3 to 12."
12 magazine is too much IMO.

"- increased AKS74U recoil by 50% and deceased accuracy by 30%."
I can agree with bad acuracy and heavy recoil of this weapon. But 50% more recoil, no.

"- decreased AK47 accuracy - 30% less accurate than conventional army rifles."
Currently, AKS74U and AK47 has same single shot accuracy. Above change makes AKU74U and AK47 same accuracy. AK47 accuracy can not be that of same as AKS74U. Should be greater.

"-changed all LMG deployed deviation so it now takes eight seconds to settle, but they can be fired from all stances."
Even when Player is standing? that means prone deviation and recoil on standing position if player is still for 8 seconds?

"- changed Insurgent/Taliban RPG deviation - Increased settle time to 4 seconds (from 2). Accuracy reduced to 25% of what it was."
I think this is bad idea. RPG7 should be innacurate than current one but 25% of what it is now will give RPG7 grouping of about 4X3meter at 200meter? And biggest one is settle time. It is too long as of now. In Insurgency it should be fired quickly, increasing settle time further more for RPG7 and conventional LAT do not make any sense.

"- tweaked all recoil animations to be 'snappier' and make fully automatic fire slightly harder to aim with."
I know what this is like. We used to have this. I can't agree.

"- removed front passenger ability to fire weapon for all logistics/transport trucks."
Firing against enemy firing toward truck from vehicle window or throwing smoke for cover is needed IMO. This will totally make truck and it's crew literally 'sitting ducks'.


"- fixed Insurgent technicals and cars greatly reducing the ground damage taken."
Finally! (cry)

One that most concerns me is AK47 accuracy change. It feels as though we took step backward. As of now we use same accuracy for all same classes. that means M4, M16, even PPSH SMG has same accuracy at long range. Only specifically decreasing AK47 accuracy mirrors what was employed back in 0.75 and 0.8 where Insurgent weapons depicted bad-aim Insurgent fire instead of leaving it up to players. Current AK47 accuracy mirrors give all players what weapon will be in real life and leave the fight results to players.

KSorrow
2009-05-15, 20:47
I cannot wait anymore to load and play it!
Look great. Good work guys!

solid84
2009-05-15, 20:57
fuzzhead;1023941']The patch is aprox. 300mb, it will patch v0.85.

You can also download a full installer (core and levels).

getting even more excited now :shock:

AgentJadeD
2009-05-15, 21:10
So what build will be the public release? v0.869?

DankE_SPB
2009-05-15, 21:26
So what build will be the public release? v0.869?

i think nobody knows, even devs:D look at log from localization project:D
May 06, Final update to english localisation, 0.866
May 10, updated to 0.867 (should definitely be the final this time :p)
Updated to 0.868
Updated to 0.869...

503
2009-05-15, 21:31
The new medic system, the 60s timer thing sounds interesting, but what if I'm revived and healed up to full health in 30 secs. For all intents and purposes, I'm a fully healthy soldier. Does this patch mean that if I'm shot once in the next 30s I'll instantly die, even though I was at full health? And do headshots kill now?

Technically, IRL, I don't think you would be a fully healthy solider if you were shot several times till critically wounded, revived, and patched.

And do headshots kill now?
Yeah. I'm wondering this too.

AgentJadeD
2009-05-15, 21:39
Well there is a v0.869 test server, and pr 0.869 Core and Levels "available".

Snazz
2009-05-15, 21:43
Looking forward to more regular incremental patches now.

The changelog looks good to me, I especially like the scoped minimi (haven't actually seen that in a game before but have held an aussie one IRL) and how helicopters have more of a chance to land.

Mora
2009-05-15, 21:48
My biggest concern is this: - various vehicle loadout tweaks on most maps. Because ive heard its quite "extreme".

Also this doesn't seem like a right choice: - Qwai River littlebirds and tanks removed due to low view distance, WZ551A added. But i never really play that map anyway.

But this is a improvement: - Karbala edits to US Mainbase, moved to NE corner of map with large dome of death.
But it doesn't really matter anymore...

AgentJadeD
2009-05-15, 21:52
One thing that really annoys me in the Brits Rover. make it handle like a humvee not a Datsan and even that handles better than the Rover.

FuzzySquirrel
2009-05-15, 21:54
Why are you removing littlebirds from Qwai? The VD isn't that bad, Also why the UH1N with rockets on Jabal? Those are two reallllly unneeded changes...

h3killa
2009-05-15, 21:56
Fuzzhead... You are my new hero.

Colonelcool125
2009-05-15, 21:58
You've ruined Qwai.

Removing the tanks and little birds is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Asymmetrical balance is a good thing.

So why completley f*ck up the map that is a poster child for asymmetrical balance?

I loved Qwai. It was a different exprience every time I played it because the sides were so different. I could hit slow and heavy with the chinese armor, I could do a speedy offense with the amazing little birds, or I could play underdog tank hunter with the TOW Humvees.

Now you've just made Qwai into another ordinary map, with no exciting bits. Just another boring slogfest.

Honestly, who cares about the view distance? It was fine. This is the exact same thing that happened on Seven Gates and Al Kufrah. You're killing maps with your silly decisions about vehicles and how maps should be played.

I am not happy.

At least give us options. We have map layers for a reason. Make one layer the old version, and make a layer the new version. Everyone's happy.

Leeu
2009-05-15, 22:02
"added new medic system, after being revived player has a 60s timer, if shot again within this 60s timer, player is killed instead of critically wounded."

If taken literally -> excellent, same medic whoring as before, only now 60 seconds at a time, nice.

agentscar
2009-05-15, 22:03
Seeing some good fixes,can't wait.
Great news! :)

Snazz
2009-05-15, 22:11
This is presumably why Qwai's assets were changed:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-community-maps/57227-avoiding-bf2-sound-bug.html

I personally only ever noticed the helicopter sound bug on Ramiel.

Not a concern to me though, I think the Chinese on Qwai will still have the advantage of a medium APC.

NYgurkha
2009-05-15, 22:13
Hot :D Cant wait to try this new version out!

/btw, how much time did the devs spend making that promo trailer?

Leeu
2009-05-15, 22:13
- updated insurgency to delete spawn points on unrevealed caches if the coalition is close (same rules as outposts and hideouts).
- changed Insurgent/Taliban RPG deviation - Increased settle time to 4 seconds (from 2). Accuracy reduced to 25% of what it was.
- increased AKS74U recoil by 50% and deceased accuracy by 30%.
- decreased AK47 accuracy - 30% less accurate than conventional army rifles.

smells like PR is being steered into into some kind of ARMA modern army sim and having INS/Taliban aspects conveniently fall by the wayside.

[F|H]NitroViper007
2009-05-15, 22:15
This looks awesome8), just when will it actually be available for download?:-(

HughJass
2009-05-15, 22:15
You've ruined Qwai.

Removing the tanks and little birds is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Asymmetrical balance is a good thing.

So why completley f*ck up the map that is a poster child for asymmetrical balance?

I loved Qwai. It was a different exprience every time I played it because the sides were so different. I could hit slow and heavy with the chinese armor, I could do a speedy offense with the amazing little birds, or I could play underdog tank hunter with the TOW Humvees.

Now you've just made Qwai into another ordinary map, with no exciting bits. Just another boring slogfest.

Honestly, who cares about the view distance? It was fine. This is the exact same thing that happened on Seven Gates and Al Kufrah. You're killing maps with your silly decisions about vehicles and how maps should be played.

I am not happy.

At least give us options. We have map layers for a reason. Make one layer the old version, and make a layer the new version. Everyone's happy.

....agreed

Colonelcool125
2009-05-15, 22:16
This is presumably why Qwai's assets were changed:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-community-maps/57227-avoiding-bf2-sound-bug.html

I personally only ever noticed the helicopter sound bug on Ramiel.

Not a concern to me though, I think the Chinese on Qwai will still have the advantage of a medium APC.

The sound bug is a minor annoyance.

Butchering a really, really good map simply for that is just moronic.

Also, my map layers argument still stands. If people really mind the sound bug, they can play on a different layer. Those of us who want a really good gameplay exprience can play on the tanks+helos layer.

HughJass
2009-05-15, 22:26
also, can anyone explain civilian changes? I can't understand the change log....

seems like they are making civ kits even more broken?

Snazz
2009-05-15, 22:28
OMG you made that rifle 30% less accurate!!?!!?!/!1/ do you know you're completely destroying the entire mod?

Just stop changing stuff, you should predict what everyone wants and stick with it!

You're ruining everything already, I'm going to say i'm not playing anymore, I mean i'm not playing anymore, it's over, PRs dead now!!!1!

/stupid sarcastic rant

jim1994
2009-05-15, 22:45
Can not wait for 0.86

unrealalex
2009-05-15, 23:22
You've ruined Qwai.

Removing the tanks and little birds is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Asymmetrical balance is a good thing.

So why completley f*ck up the map that is a poster child for asymmetrical balance?

I loved Qwai. It was a different exprience every time I played it because the sides were so different. I could hit slow and heavy with the chinese armor, I could do a speedy offense with the amazing little birds, or I could play underdog tank hunter with the TOW Humvees.

Now you've just made Qwai into another ordinary map, with no exciting bits. Just another boring slogfest.

Honestly, who cares about the view distance? It was fine. This is the exact same thing that happened on Seven Gates and Al Kufrah. You're killing maps with your silly decisions about vehicles and how maps should be played.

I am not happy.

At least give us options. We have map layers for a reason. Make one layer the old version, and make a layer the new version. Everyone's happy.
Agreed. Kufrah and Seven Gates are such boring maps now, they used to be a lot more fun. Add Qwai to the list now.

Why do you think insurgency is so popular? Cause it's not apc vs apc.

The attack huey addition to Jabal I welcome though. Long time needed. Kind of silly for that map to be without air support.

crokojot
2009-05-15, 23:23
Snaz,Colonelcool125 and similiar omfg , wtf , ffs ,fff people---first say thank you, for making this mod .Then try to play.After that , try to put your opinion ,suggestion . Waiting for download! :24_smoker

EPatrick
2009-05-15, 23:25
http://tournament.realitymod.com/pr_main/thumbs/pr_m249elcan_1_th.jpg

Thank you!

rangedReCon
2009-05-15, 23:33
Love the new main menu background. Some of the map changes are kinda lame however =\

Ghost1800
2009-05-15, 23:41
Eh, not gonna judge it till I play it. Jabal needed something done to it, I want to see if this is the right thing (or perhaps it's time to put this old map to rest?)

FuzzySquirrel
2009-05-15, 23:54
Snaz,Colonelcool125 and similiar omfg , wtf , ffs ,fff people---first say thank you, for making this mod .Then try to play.After that , try to put your opinion ,suggestion . Waiting for download! :24_smoker

Most people that have played qwai couldn't imagine that map with out its assets, they're perfect. I'm going with the "If It ain't broke. Dont FIX it!"

Vege
2009-05-16, 00:17
OMG you made that rifle 30% less accurate!!?!!?!/!1/ do you know you're completely destroying the entire mod?

Just stop changing stuff, you should predict what everyone wants and stick with it!

You're ruining everything already, I'm going to say i'm not playing anymore, I mean i'm not playing anymore, it's over, PRs dead now!!!1!

/stupid sarcastic rant
That particular AK has no recoil and high ROA and it's pretty mutch as dominating as g36c is in VBF.
It has to change (even thou i love it :D )

StuTika
2009-05-16, 00:17
Yup. REALLY want Qwai to stay the same.

ivan_mamute
2009-05-16, 00:46
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THE NEW VERSION EVERY YOU LOWER THE POWER OF insurgents, Taliban, and Iraqis ....
LOWER THIS INCREASINGLY MORE JUST LET THE GAME IS ABOUT TO PRA Coward play with them, and everyone knows that the Iraqi army NOT USE G3, and everyone knows that the IED is very, very strong, then asked to you WHY did this?

YOU ARE SO LOST FANS.

IN IRAQ The DRAGUNOV is MADE THE SAME country,with scope 6x
The apc of Iraq and Russia have the shield weaker .
and the hunvee is very strong "in the game". in the real life .... a hunvee
is easily destroyed.
Why is that? You want to rewrite the war in Iraq?

are injured for the kills of "Juba", OR WITH VERY IEDs that destroyed American tanks?
and then it is a revenge game?

The Iraqi army USA AK-47, with scope, and DRAGUNOV, much best of your game.


HOW MANY VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE, i can see A CAR BOMB exploding a hunvee and all people of the street.

The game is very uneven ...
all of the player like fun playing with good guns... and the countries in the game HAVE good guns..
Change the MOD TO NAME:
PROJECT Cowards


Little more constructive next time, please -M.

Mora
2009-05-16, 00:48
Its not only Qwai that gets a asset change.

CAS_117
2009-05-16, 01:12
Qwai shouldn't have armor or much (if any) helicopters. I would prefer if along with this the VD was increased though.

But yeah I can finally have a reliable base of fire now with the LMG changes. So inf is pretty much fine for me.

torenico
2009-05-16, 01:22
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THE NEW VERSION EVERY YOU LOWER THE POWER OF insurgents, Taliban, and Iraqis ....
LOWER THIS INCREASINGLY MORE JUST LET THE GAME IS ABOUT TO PRA Coward play with them, and everyone knows that the Iraqi army NOT USE G3, and everyone knows that the IED is very, very strong, then asked to you WHY did this?

YOU ARE SO LOST FANS.

IN IRAQ The DRAGUNOV is MADE THE SAME country,with scope 6x
The apc of Iraq and Russia have the shield weaker .
and the hunvee is very strong "in the game". in the real life .... a hunvee
is easily destroyed.
Why is that? You want to rewrite the war in Iraq?

are injured for the kills of "Juba", OR WITH VERY IEDs that destroyed American tanks?
and then it is a revenge game?

The Iraqi army USA AK-47, with scope, and DRAGUNOV, much best of your game.


HOW MANY VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE, i can see A CAR BOMB exploding a hunvee and all people of the street.

The game is very uneven ...
all of the player like fun playing with good guns... and the countries in the game HAVE good guns..
Change the MOD TO NAME:
PROJECT Cowards



Hahaha.. that made me lol alot.


Sick guy.

hiberNative
2009-05-16, 01:32
Hahaha.. that made me lol alot.


Sick guy.
the best part is that he edited it, too
Last edited by ivan_mamute; Today at 02:57 AM..
which means it was actually thought through and that he wanted to add something meaningful with the edit ;)

DkMick
2009-05-16, 01:32
LOL, I think some people watch to much interwebz.

Looking forward to the patch. More groaning about changes to come, but as usual, I'm sure it'll be quality work from the team.

h3killa
2009-05-16, 02:18
LOL, I think some people watch to much interwebz.

Looking forward to the patch. More groaning about changes to come, but as usual, I'm sure it'll be quality work from the team.

I agree. The usual bitching. Good work DEV + Tester + TCombat

ganja420
2009-05-16, 02:19
SWEEEEEET

torenico
2009-05-16, 02:21
Im not even going to answer that guy but.

MEC is not Iraq, and you think the PR Devs aare 13yrs or guys who wants to put the G3 as the Main Assault Rifle of Iraq just for Fun... or for "USA and GB KICK ASS!".


I think you gotta think it not 2, not 3, not 10 but 25 times before posting that Sh1t. I wonder why the Mods dindt warned or banned you for the most stupid post Ever.




And Also, how old are you?

CodeRedFox
2009-05-16, 02:24
Enought why on earth would anyone quote a first time poster.

ganja420
2009-05-16, 02:28
its 420 time dudes, relax:mrgreen::mrgreen:... the game has just increased 132% in sexiness

Stiller_001
2009-05-16, 02:53
well done, can not wait

McBumLuv
2009-05-16, 03:58
Snaz,Colonelcool125 and similiar omfg , wtf , ffs ,fff people---first say thank you, for making this mod .Then try to play.After that , try to put your opinion ,suggestion . Waiting for download! :24_smoker
Well, for one thing, they HAVE played the new test builds :?

Anyways, I agree with Cool that Qwai will never be the same. It was the perfect show of asymmetrical balance, with some of the most interesting tactics I've seen develop. The removal of Little Birds means a few things. Heavy reliance on only one method of transportation (Ground, more specifically APCs), and the loss of one of the US team's tactical edge, speed and maneuverability.

As for China, the loss of tanks also means the loss of their key team advantage: sheer firepower. Now that both teams will be relying heavily on APCs, they will lose some of the key strategies that defined the map. Just watch this turn into a symetrical gameplay map. It's losing the flavour that defined it so well.

Anybody can see that from those changes. It doesn't mean that they don't have respect for the work the Devs have so obviously but into the game, it just means we are all critical of this decision.

On the other hand, I think that the rest of the changes are good. Infantry looks top-notch, and I'm hoping Karbala will become more playable with it's changes.

acCA[NL]
2009-05-16, 04:50
bout time the mg's got scope/zoom. gonna be allot more usefull now,
as for the maps, ill reserve my doubts till i play them, altough river qwai is in its current form on of my fav map.
looking forward for the release

unrealalex
2009-05-16, 05:33
I dont understand why the PKM would get zoom. Deviating a bit far from realism/asymetrical gameplay no?

Chuc
2009-05-16, 05:49
Insurgent, Chechen and Taliban PKMs don't have zoom.. but the Russian one does as a placeholder for the Pecheneg with the 1P29 scope.

BlackMagikz
2009-05-16, 05:53
i suppose not every map has to have vehicles in it or just inf. IMO its a battle of balance and getting it just right. Vehicles are a good asset , but however the more there are , the more tardish wasting there will be. Kashan and Qinling are prime examples and Qwai is a few notches down from them.

So with fewer assets to waste , the more conserving the will be. For Example if your team only gets 10 APCs for the whole round , then there will be scrutiny on who gets to crew it.

It just DEV's way of forcing people to THINK , It will be little rough , but we'll get used to it...in time

M_Striker
2009-05-16, 06:00
I like the Qwai changes. All the assets, tanks and little birds made it feel "nilla-ish"

FuzzySquirrel
2009-05-16, 06:02
It just DEV's way of forcing people to THINK , It will be little rough , but we'll get used to it...in time

TBH, Qwai is an old map, It's story was to be US are fast attack so they get humvees light apcs and littlebirds, China was the "dug in" force hince their tanks and what not. With these changes they cant "Force" Players to think...Kashan is a Good map, but at this rate Kashan 64 will be Strykers and BDRMS...Not all maps need to be "Tweaked"

As for the other changes, they're nice. tbh the seem like more eyecandy than anything tho.

Scot
2009-05-16, 06:48
i suppose not every map has to have vehicles in it or just inf. IMO its a battle of balance and getting it just right. Vehicles are a good asset , but however the more there are , the more tardish wasting there will be. Kashan and Qinling are prime examples and Qwai is a few notches down from them.

So with fewer assets to waste , the more conserving the will be. For Example if your team only gets 10 APCs for the whole round , then there will be scrutiny on who gets to crew it.

It just DEV's way of forcing people to THINK , It will be little rough , but we'll get used to it...in time

If we think like that, then Kashan will have BRDMs vs Humvees...

If you edit a map in mind for the tards, then the Mod will be tardy.

I also like how on Qwai, one of the big advantages of the new APC was the MG could look straight up, yet now there are no LBs so rendering it completely useless :p

E: You making Colonelcool unhappy, makes me unhappy :(

evya
2009-05-16, 06:48
for the DEVs about kufrah[fix me-.-],7 gates and qway, why not just make a pool and see what everyone prefers:/, but all the other changes, especially jabal are great!

BlackMagikz
2009-05-16, 06:50
With these changes they cant "Force" Players to think...Kashan is a Good map, but at this rate Kashan 64 will be Strykers and BDRMS...Not all maps need to be "Tweaked"

As for the other changes, they're nice. tbh the seem like more eyecandy than anything tho.

what i mean by "force" , i mean the circumstances in the game placed by the DEV's will require people to think in order to win

Yes i know Kashan is a good map , but without the Tards. Huge Maps require vehicles , but i think Qwai is small enough to cope without Tanks or Helicopters.

And i agree with M_Striker

Damian|PL
2009-05-16, 06:51
THX guys for this Mod. I love ProjectReality 8).

HybridX
2009-05-16, 07:35
Having played .866 I can say im well happy with the patch.

One thing i would change thought is the Jabal Attack Huey. IMO a UH1 Rocket Huey is too much for such a smallish map. If you find a good CAS pilot the US will dominate the map. We all know most jabal rounds involve most of the Armor getting Hat/Lat/APC raped after 20mins play and then things like dam and bridge are fought out on foot as infantry in the hills etc.

IMO i would like to see the UH1 attack huey replaced with something like a attack Littlebird.

A CAS huey will and does rape the mec quite badly, where as, a Attack LB would suit the terrain and gameplay fo jabal much better.

Nibbit
2009-05-16, 08:16
nice, gonna miss the tactic play with TOWs in qwai tho :(

fuzzhead
2009-05-16, 08:24
gonna miss the tactic play with TOWs in qwai tho

There is still TOW in qwai, and its still very much light mobility vs heavy armor... take the whiners opinion with grain of salt till you actually play on full server with good squads ;)

If we had a dollar for every time we hear "you've doomed the mod!" then we would have enough $$ to buy our own engine by now :P

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-05-16, 08:26
I`m famous! I`m flying the merlin down the river in the first two screens of the WZ551A!:mrgreen:

Who wants a interview or autograph?8-)

Conman51
2009-05-16, 08:37
"All LMG's now have 4X Zoom." (or words to that effect)

Let's just give every damn kit a scope, and get it over with.

seriously

im still split on this issue

now there's scopes EVERY WHERE!!!!!!

but in a way it was needed for the SAW..i say take scopes off LAT and MAYBE grenadier, but i think its good there

Leeu
2009-05-16, 09:01
"Originally Posted by RustyBandSaw View Post
"All LMG's now have 4X Zoom." (or words to that effect)

Let's just give every damn kit a scope, and get it over with."


seriously

im still split on this issue

now there's scopes EVERY WHERE!!!!!!

but in a way it was needed for the SAW..i say take scopes off LAT and MAYBE grenadier, but i think its good there


Me too, deployed LMG with scope = laser like suppression. Where's the rough edge and confusion inherent in infantry combat now - e.g. Fallujah West: a usmc m249 guy can see a head pop up on a building, he takes aim as best he can and burst fires. Maybe now more like, "oh there's a head pop up 5 buildings down, oh no wait its just a civillian/xxxx, go ahead guys cross the street/boom headshot".

I hope the limiting of the scoped LMG kits saves this from becoming something out of CS.

JERICHO777
2009-05-16, 09:04
Medics need scopes too, why they wanna take scopes out???????????

Human_001
2009-05-16, 09:08
So modern military employ scopes more and more. And FPS simulator faced this challenge. Should we or should we not add scopes like in real life.

In real life scope will not have kind of advantage the game has. If scope is added to game, it will give certain advantage that it won't give in real life. It's all have to do with pixels on screen. Scope or no scope, its advantage and disadantages can not be depicted as long as we play video game. Trying to use your naked eye to see far in your screen just hurts your eyes badly just like trying to read fine prints on paper. Even worse because it's on screen.

I begged for zero-zoom for iron sight weapon since I knew about this game, but after playing this game in real zero-zoom iron sight rifle vs. scoped rifles, which in real life thats what they use, I came to conclusion that Scope advantages can not be depicted correctly on video game, Period.

I think I learned the ultimate limit of computer generated simulator.
That is, we still use screens to see and execute the simulation.

Donatello
2009-05-16, 09:11
I have a question to DEVs: in previous versions gunners had to wait after getting in.
It helped to prevent solo-driving.
Now they cant shoot without driver.
Maybe you should remove time penalty for gunners?

DankE_SPB
2009-05-16, 09:57
Me too, deployed LMG with scope = laser like suppression

i strongly suggest you to play it first, at beginning i also thought it would be WTFBBQPWN everything moving around, this is true, but only if walk in small group on open area, its not so easy to kill somebody if he is undercover and also has scope ;-). Now LMG heavily affect your tactics, especially on open terrain, had an awesome round on Op Archer and it was really intense and interesting firefight

Blade.3510
2009-05-16, 10:47
what about tandem warhead for russian rpg ? : (

they alredy do for russian army in PR

DankE_SPB
2009-05-16, 10:53
they alredy do for russian army in PR

only charachteristics, not model

Rudd
2009-05-16, 11:13
Medics need scopes too, why they wanna take scopes out???????????

How about you lot play the build first eh?

Balance is the key.

ganja420
2009-05-16, 11:58
Medics need scopes too, why they wanna take scopes out???????????

OMG!!! medic is the only decent kit! ironsights rock. u just need to learn how to use it. dont come with filthy statements like that! And now with the new patch, we finally get ironsight on SL kit to!!! AWESOME. Finally the SL kit is intresting!

ganja420
2009-05-16, 12:04
i strongly suggest you to play it first, at beginning i also thought it would be WTFBBQPWN everything moving around, this is true, but only if walk in small group on open area, its not so easy to kill somebody if he is undercover and also has scope ;-). Now LMG heavily affect your tactics, especially on open terrain, had an awesome round on Op Archer and it was really intense and interesting firefight

i agree, the LMG have become an awesome weapon now, and will be an REAL heavy strategy element. its awesome, and i gotta admit i got a slight boner yesterday playing with it.

Deadpool2894
2009-05-16, 12:58
will it support vista 32 bit and 64 bit

addaco
2009-05-16, 13:16
does battlefield 2 support 64 bit?

pr .85 works on my vista 32 bit, but it would only work on 64 bit if bf2 works on 64 bit.

DankE_SPB
2009-05-16, 13:22
it used to work fine on my Vista x64, installer just give warning that game havent been tested on such OS

hyraclyon
2009-05-16, 13:59
I wonder, has the RPG damage been restored to it's original value, now that it is much less accurate? So we can at least destroy a humvee in one shot with it?

nicoX
2009-05-16, 14:16
You've ruined Qwai.

Removing the tanks and little birds is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Asymmetrical balance is a good thing.

So why completley f*ck up the map that is a poster child for asymmetrical balance?

I loved Qwai. It was a different exprience every time I played it because the sides were so different. I could hit slow and heavy with the chinese armor, I could do a speedy offense with the amazing little birds, or I could play underdog tank hunter with the TOW Humvees.

Now you've just made Qwai into another ordinary map, with no exciting bits. Just another boring slogfest.

Honestly, who cares about the view distance? It was fine. This is the exact same thing that happened on Seven Gates and Al Kufrah. You're killing maps with your silly decisions about vehicles and how maps should be played.

I am not happy.

At least give us options. We have map layers for a reason. Make one layer the old version, and make a layer the new version. Everyone's happy.

If you believe in Perestroijka.
Welcome to PR.

Sundance Kid
2009-05-16, 15:14
BWAAAAA???? I just noticed this thread now and i got to say its PURE SEX.

JohnnyTheIED
2009-05-16, 16:51
In short,

Further nerfage of the insurgent weapons and more cool stuff for the coalition.. Looking forward to this turkey shoot patch!

10 rpgs firing nerfs and a scoped m249.. I think the objective is clear.

No EFPs... No more mine(s)... No good scope for drag (which is the main sniper rifle in many armies including insurgents) No boobytrap-ieds... No scope for now basicly worthlessrpg (6m radius? 4 sec focus? Further decreased accuracy? Whats next? Training dud ammo?

gazzthompson
2009-05-16, 17:09
you realize the INS have the best weapons set (arguably) on the game ? id take AK over m4/16 ANY day of the week. a scoped m249 will be more effective against conventional forces . no more mines? i missed that.

updated insurgency to only have 2 caches available at a time instead of the current 3.

win for INS.

increased Insurgent/Taliban SVD Dragunov mag count from 3 to 12.

good for INS.

- increased AKS74U recoil by 50% and deceased accuracy by 30%.
- decreased AK47 accuracy - 30% less accurate than conventional army rifles.

bad for INS yeah, but about time....

NyteMyre
2009-05-16, 17:24
- added new code to not allow gunners without drivers in tanks, apcs and mobile AT vehicles. You can still drive by yourself if your driver/gets out, but you won't be able to gun without somebody in the driver seat. Check only takes place when getting inside the gunner seat.

This is quite the wrong way to deal with solo-tankers....

- changed civilians to get static 2 min spawn penalty + temporary ones (suicide, TK, etc) but not normal death spawn penalties.

I don't get this....Civilians still get insanely high respawn times when killed outside of ROE?
And the INS still get revive capabilities ?

crazy11
2009-05-16, 17:31
This is quite the wrong way to deal with solo-tankers...

Why do you say that?


It works great.

Colonelcool125
2009-05-16, 17:39
Snaz,Colonelcool125 and similiar omfg , wtf , ffs ,fff people---first say thank you, for making this mod .Then try to play.After that , try to put your opinion ,suggestion . Waiting for download! :24_smoker

I've played the test builds. I've thanked them for the mod before.

But honestly, I don't even need to play Qwai on a full server to know that it's lost it's appeal. It could play as them best map ever, but it's still essentially a balanced map with no exciting bits now that there's no little birds and tanks.

BTW, the argument of differing map layers still stands...

EDIT:
I should also mention that the Eclan scopes on SAWs are the greatest thing ever.

Nagard
2009-05-16, 17:43
This is quite the wrong way to deal with solo-tankers...

What's the right way then? This one sounds, like it works: You are only one in the tank -> You can't shoot. What's bad about this?

I don't get this....Civilians still get insanely high respawn times when killed outside of ROE?
And the INS still get revive capabilities ?

In this case you are right. Noone wants to play Collaborator due to the insane spawntime. This helps avoiding people to climb on roofs with grapple and throw stones all the time, but why don't you just make it like the medickit and reduce the spawn time to normal? One per squad and respawning like everyone else.

FuzzySquirrel
2009-05-16, 17:54
tbh, I agree with Cool, Make 32 Layer the Apc and no lbs or armor on qwai. Then make 64 as current...Give us choices...

NyteMyre
2009-05-16, 19:10
What's the right way then? This one sounds, like it works: You are only one in the tank -> You can't shoot. What's bad about this.

yeah, tanks are unable to shoot without drivers...
I think a server rule and watchful admins are a better way to deal with solo-ers then this piece of code which is very unrealistic.

Oh, and what about the headshot-issue ?

gazzthompson
2009-05-16, 19:16
then this piece of code which is very unrealistic.


unrealistic ?

DankE_SPB
2009-05-16, 19:27
I think a server rule and watchful admins are a better way to deal with solo-ers then this piece of code which is very unrealistic.

I lol'ed. How come automatic system which completely prevent from soloing could be worse than admins and other things??

Leeu
2009-05-16, 19:30
I wonder, has the RPG damage been restored to it's original value, now that it is much less accurate? So we can at least destroy a humvee in one shot with it?

Oh yeah, almost forget about that 0.85 bug. Waiting for confirmation if they actually reduced the RPG accuracy BY 75% AND reduced the splash damage radius by 40% without increasing the damage.

fuzzhead
2009-05-16, 19:42
I wonder, has the RPG damage been restored to it's original value, now that it is much less accurate? So we can at least destroy a humvee in one shot with it?

I believe 1 direct hit = set vehicle on fire.

GrimSoldier
2009-05-16, 19:48
sweeet cant wait!!!

JohnnyTheIED
2009-05-16, 21:05
fuzzhead;1025031']I believe 1 direct hit = set vehicle on fire.

fair enought

BroCop
2009-05-16, 21:23
Dont really agree...a bit too nerfed IMO (including the AK but thats another story). IIRC some transports dont have weak spots and absorb damage equally (I believe thats the situation with the Humvee...I want a damn car to blow up if i hat it into the engine damnit). Though correct me if im wrong

gazzthompson
2009-05-16, 21:52
Dont really agree...a bit too nerfed IMO (including the AK but thats another story). IIRC some transports dont have weak spots and absorb damage equally (I believe thats the situation with the Humvee...I want a damn car to blow up if i hat it into the engine damnit). Though correct me if im wrong

ak74u was PURE rape, so the nerf is needed, and a INS RPG is NOT a hat, a HAT will destroy a car instantly, so yes.. you are incorrect

McBumLuv
2009-05-16, 22:01
fuzzhead;1025031']I believe 1 direct hit = set vehicle on fire.

That's how it was in 0.8, then in 0.85 it would be able to survive (though smoking), so I guess it's been revamped, good news :p

x.trEm*e
2009-05-16, 22:06
any news on headshots?
are we still able to live and be happy after a 7.62 going through skull-flesh-brain-flesh-skull?

fuzzhead
2009-05-16, 22:28
are we still able to live and be happy after a 7.62 going through skull-flesh-brain-flesh-skull?

Youll see alot less medics reviving, and the ones that spam it will be dead. If your not cautious about reviving, using smoke etc, youll quickly be seeing patients dead all around ;)

Has v0.86 made a big emphasis on hollywood style "BOOM headshot!"?

Nope try Combat Arms for that kind of thing :P

Human_001
2009-05-16, 23:18
If settle time for LAT is increased to 4 seconds that means you can not hit any moving or driving by vehicle because you have to rotate your body with mouse to follow target?

If may I ask, what is the grouping of RPG-7 at 100meter?
Accoriding to wikipedia quoted from United States Army Training And Doctrine Command. 30 September 1975. states hit probability of RPG-7 shot at target 100 meter away that is moving at 9 MPH across and panel that of size 7.5x15 feet is 96%
RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7#Hit_probabilities)

Can this new RPG-7 if settled to minimum deviation has ability to hit target size of 7.5x15 feet at 100 meter with probability of 96%?

Also about AK47. Was accuracy of AK47, 1. Reduced to meet the rifle's accuracy in real life? 2. Reduced to meet the depiction of stereotypical Insurgent firing rifle? 3. Gameplay reason?

I have read book called "Ma Vie En Rafales" by Mikhail Kalashnikov. I remember reading that his AK47 was selected amongst other competitor even though SKS was already in production because performance of AK47 was same or above that of SKS including accuracy.

I don't understand why lower AK47's accuracy in paticular. I want to know the reason. Have you lowered the same caliber SKS and RPK accuracy also?

My apology for so many questions but this paticular change makes me think alot of why it was done.

IAJTHOMAS
2009-05-17, 02:12
I'm concerned about the changes to Qwai, but will reserve judgment until I've played it.

Otherwise it seems to be another step in the right direction, have to see how all the changes fit together in game.

waldo_ii
2009-05-17, 03:13
I was about to say that this is the first patch where I loved everything I saw when I very first came across it. Now, that isn't to say that, in say .856, I didn't like the logistics system and still don't. I've grown to love it. But there is one thing in this changelog that makes me unhappy. Rather, it is the lack of one thing.

Removal of grenade traps.


AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! The TK onslaught will continue! WHYY!!?!? *sob*

nedlands1
2009-05-17, 03:16
If settle time for LAT is increased to 4 seconds that means you can not hit any moving or driving by vehicle because you have to rotate your body with mouse to follow target?

The deviation due to turning remains unchanged. It's the deviation due to walking/strafing that has been modified.

If may I ask, what is the grouping of RPG-7 at 100meter?
Accoriding to wikipedia quoted from United States Army Training And Doctrine Command. 30 September 1975. states hit probability of RPG-7 shot at target 100 meter away that is moving at 9 MPH across and panel that of size 7.5x15 feet is 96%
RPG-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7#Hit_probabilities)


Can this new RPG-7 if settled to minimum deviation has ability to hit target size of 7.5x15 feet at 100 meter with probability of 96%?

At a 100m, when settled, the new RPG-7 should have, at best, a maximum cone of fire of 3.5m in diameter. I calculated the probability of hitting to be around 77% with a stationary target at a range of 100m and with the dimensions described. I assumed that there wasn't any movement deviation, the soldier is a perfect marksmen and the rounds are evenly distributed. Therefore the actual value should be a little less.

Bear in mind, the insurgents are probably using old and worn equipment and are lacking in training.

Also about AK47. Was accuracy of AK47, 1. Reduced to meet the rifle's accuracy in real life? 2. Reduced to meet the depiction of stereotypical Insurgent firing rifle? 3. Gameplay reason?

A combination of the three I'd imagine.

I don't understand why lower AK47's accuracy in paticular. I want to know the reason. Have you lowered the same caliber SKS and RPK accuracy also?

Good point. I don't think it's been done.

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-17, 04:00
I cant wait! 2 months and Im home for some PR with a fresh new version, hot off the press :P

Wilkinson
2009-05-17, 04:17
Yay For Okita, I waitz for RAMIEL 2

Human_001
2009-05-17, 08:44
nedlands1;1025396'].

Thank you for swift, constructive, and easy to understand reply.
I have wrote down my reply on memo pad as I read your reply. I apologize it's format is "choppy" and many are not in sentence form and are in bulletin. Also I don't know how to quote multiple times as you did above.

About reply to RPG-7 and AK47 accuracy:
-Player them self should determine level of training. (How skilled they are at playing a video game) Nerfing weapon trajectory saying such faction lacks training is walking away from weapon reality. There is always good-shot and bad-shot combatant for both long trained and never trained side. This kind of change will ultimately bring resulsts such as skilled gamers only being able to fire like amateur and actual amateur to shoot like pro gamer. This will also kill chance for skilled gamer to be actually being skilled.

-Such thing as level of training should be done by community level. Such as creating clan specifically dedicated to gather good players for sole purpose of playing those faction.

-Combat stress in game (the fear the rush when playing under pressure of fire back now and take out enemy player now or you will lose) should serve the depiction of combat stress and level of training.

-I can't agree that Never been fired before yet old and dirty RPG-7 round or launcher has less accuracy.

-I disagree that specific rifle AK47 has such single shot accuracy problem that needs its accuracy dropped by 30% compare to other military or service rifle when trying to depict or simulate this paticular firearm.

Please. I want to know why lower only AK47's accuracy in paticular, when there could be other service rifle or other firearms depicted in this mod that could be no more accurate than AK47. (such as PPSH, M4 carbine, and QBZ95B)

I want to thank you again for taking your time to read and reply to my post.
Also to your commitment that goes as far as conducting your own evaluation of new RPG-7.

Also, I found this:
- fixed PPSH default trigger group so its fully automatic.

PPSH41 has both semi and fully automatic fire. Maybe you are confusing PPSH41 for PPS43.

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-17, 09:23
Thank you for swift, constructive, and easy to understand reply.
I have wrote down my reply on memo pad as I read your reply. I apologize it's format is "choppy" and many are not in sentence form and are in bulletin. Also I don't know how to quote multiple times as you did above.

About reply to RPG-7 and AK47 accuracy:
-Player them self should determine level of training. (How skilled they are at playing a video game) Nerfing weapon trajectory saying such faction lacks training is walking away from weapon reality. There is always good-shot and bad-shot combatant for both long trained and never trained side. This kind of change will ultimately bring resulsts such as skilled gamers only being able to fire like amateur and actual amateur to shoot like pro gamer. This will also kill chance for skilled gamer to be actually being skilled.

-Such thing as level of training should be done by community level. Such as creating clan specifically dedicated to gather good players for sole purpose of playing those faction.

-Combat stress in game (the fear the rush when playing under pressure of fire back now and take out enemy player now or you will lose) should serve the depiction of combat stress and level of training.

-I can't agree that Never been fired before yet old and dirty RPG-7 round or launcher has less accuracy.

-I disagree that specific rifle AK47 has such single shot accuracy problem that needs its accuracy dropped by 30% compare to other military or service rifle when trying to depict or simulate this paticular firearm.

Please. I want to know why lower only AK47's accuracy in paticular, when there could be other service rifle or other firearms depicted in this mod that could be no more accurate than AK47. (such as PPSH, M4 carbine, and QBZ95B)

I want to thank you again for taking your time to read and reply to my post.
Also to your commitment that goes as far as conducting your own evaluation of new RPG-7.

Also, I found this:
- fixed PPSH default trigger group so its fully automatic.

PPSH41 has both semi and fully automatic fire. Maybe you are confusing PPSH41 for PPS43.

As for AK47 , I dnt have the numbers so Ill just say to keep in mind its all relative. Just because its accuracy was dropped didnt mean that it previously was more accurate than it should have been. Think of it this way, it could be that it was 30% more accurate than it SHOULD have been realistically, and now its fixed.

You didnt get a DEV response on the issue, so I wouldnt just jump to too many conclusions ;)

PPSH change, it means it will now be set to fully auto when you pick it up, not that it ONLY has fully auto... I think you misunderstood that, but Im not sure...

Chuc
2009-05-17, 09:23
It means that the default spawning trigger group is Automatic, rather than semi-auto like most other weapons.

EDIT: frackin Ninja Okita..

x.trEm*e
2009-05-17, 10:17
fuzzhead;1025201']Youll see alot less medics reviving, and the ones that spam it will be dead. If your not cautious about reviving, using smoke etc, youll quickly be seeing patients dead all around ;)

Has v0.86 made a big emphasis on hollywood style "BOOM headshot!"?

Nope try Combat Arms for that kind of thing :P

Well I understand your point. There have been made some good changes.
But in the next version you remove the ability to jump and then say

Has v0.96 made a big emphasis on Max Payne style "Rolling in the air jump and falling flat on the ground!"?

Nope try CS:S if you want to jump :PI actually mean that some essentials present should kinda be left where they are... including headshots

DankE_SPB
2009-05-17, 10:30
including headshots
if you add headshots with already implemented changes you can say bye-bye to medic class, it will be completely useless
we had full test server yesterday, so it was good chance to see how it plays ;-)

White Rock
2009-05-17, 11:42
Removal of grenade traps.


AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH! The TK onslaught will continue! WHYY!!?!? *sob*


It dosent need to be removed, they just have to fix it. ;)


With warning signs on mine markers or something.

BroCop
2009-05-17, 11:45
ak74u was PURE rape, so the nerf is needed, and a INS RPG is NOT a hat, a HAT will destroy a car instantly, so yes.. you are incorrect

Was talking about the good ol' 47 (AFAIK an 47 at ranges up to 100m is as accurate as any other rifle). Also I have yet to met a car able to withstand a RPG round to its hood but im not gonna debate about that

Cptkanito
2009-05-17, 12:37
Wow, looks awesome. I'm interested to know how you got the Auto-deply thing to work... but anyways nice update xD

roob
2009-05-17, 13:48
what happened to the AA-warning not sounding until 0.5 seconds after the launch? Is it still implemented?

McBumLuv
2009-05-17, 16:37
You know, I'm not entirely unhappy with the changes to Qwai. I'm sure there is still room on the map for very good, though different, games.

However, no map has ever been as good map to demonstrate asymmetrical balance between two major forces in the sense of asset numbers, power, and overall strategy. Now, of course there will still be differing tactics, but not to the same degree. There's still Ejod desert, which also features tanks for the MEC and TOW humvees for USA, but it's not quite the same.

However, I think the argument that Qwai was the only asymmetrical map between two major factions isn'tactually true, since we have a few carrier maps with extremely different tactics (think Barracuda and Muttrah).

However, I agree with Cas' comments that Qwai should have it's view distance upped. It's impossible to engage anything accross the river, which I believe should be for some better developped tactics.

gazzthompson
2009-05-17, 16:57
Was talking about the good ol' 47 (AFAIK an 47 at ranges up to 100m is as accurate as any other rifle). Also I have yet to met a car able to withstand a RPG round to its hood but im not gonna debate about that


the AK 47 very good in game, better than m16/4 IMO. also you said "I want a damn car to blow up if i hat it into the engine damnit)"

i was merely stating that a HAT will destroy a car ingame so didnt understand your complaint.

the RPG is not a HAT.

lockpicker.=P
2009-05-17, 17:32
if you add headshots with already implemented changes you can say bye-bye to medic class, it will be completely useless
we had full test server yesterday, so it was good chance to see how it plays ;-)

But I believe that in real life medics are useless against headshots.. I mean, you get shot by a 7.62x51mm in your head, fired from an M40.. strong enough to make transform your whole head into a antimatter or something like that and a medic goes and revives him with a epinephrine pen and he is ready to fight again?

And.. shouldn't be there a revival limit? You get critically wounded and get revived with no penalties (like movement speed, aim or something/idk if its possible to apply) and you just have to wait 1 minute to transform yourself in someone who have never been shot? :confused:

Err, where is the so called reality? :mrgreen:

BUT it still being the GODDAMN BEST GAME IN THE WHOLE WORLD HAHA :-D:-D:-D

x.trEm*e
2009-05-17, 17:40
if you add headshots with already implemented changes you can say bye-bye to medic class, it will be completely useless
we had full test server yesterday, so it was good chance to see how it plays ;-)

we had medics with headshots before and it worked...

DankE_SPB
2009-05-17, 17:48
we had medics with headshots before and it worked...

did you have 1 medic per squad, death if killed in 60 seconds after revive rules? no
also add here deviation changes

lockpicker.=P
2009-05-17, 17:59
did you have 1 medic per squad, death if killed in 60 seconds after revive rules? no
also add here deviation changes

1 medic per squad
death if critically wounded twice
plus headshots

and then we have some reality, hard as it is (IMO)

[F|H]NitroViper007
2009-05-17, 18:43
1 medic per squad
death if critically wounded twice
plus headshots

and then we have some reality, hard as it is (IMO)

I agree, I think we should do this.

DankE_SPB
2009-05-17, 19:32
meh, its easier to completely remove medic than do such changes and result will be same
and guys, irl you do not respawn, so lets remove respawn until end of round, it will be so realistic:roll:

lockpicker.=P
2009-05-17, 19:37
meh, its easier to completely remove medic than do such changes and result will be same
and guys, irl you do not respawn, so lets remove respawn until end of round, it will be so realistic:roll:

Now you lost your argument, you're comparing oranges with apples.

I'm so sorry if medics in real life can't treat 7.62mm headshots or soldiers that had been shot 15 times and if that in game would prejudice your gameplay... maybe you should try playing BF2v.

DankE_SPB
2009-05-17, 19:55
Now you lost your argument, you're comparing oranges with apples.

I'm so sorry if medics in real life can't treat 7.62mm headshots or soldiers that had been shot 15 times and if that in game would prejudice your gameplay... maybe you should try playing BF2v.

you better give some arguments from your side(ofc not only parroting "realism, realistic etc.")

medic is completely unrealistic thing ingame so judjing only from realistic pov is mistake, there are different ways to change medic system and headshots is only 1 part of it, whole point of headshots is to lessen number of revives, 1 med per squad and time limit is another
as i already stated, in new version "reviving fest" is gone, further changes to lessen revives will make medic kit useless(nobody will take it like the civilian kit) so it easier to completely remove it

btwYou get critically wounded and get revived with no penalties (like movement speed, aim or something/idk if its possible to apply)
there are penalties, black&white vision, unable to sprint, gets wounded in 60 seconds>dead

BroCop
2009-05-17, 20:01
the AK 47 very good in game, better than m16/4 IMO. also you said "I want a damn car to blow up if i hat it into the engine damnit)"

i was merely stating that a HAT will destroy a car ingame so didnt understand your complaint.

the RPG is not a HAT.

Now i see why youre talking about the HAT...it was a damn typo :p (wanted to say "hit")

the current AK47 does need slight nerfing (well in full auto its a bit too accurate) but 30% is a bit more then it should be (15-20% would be better)

lockpicker.=P
2009-05-17, 20:02
you better give some arguments from your side(ofc not only parroting "realism, realistic etc.")

medic is completely unrealistic thing ingame so judjing only from realistic pov is mistake, there are different ways to change medic system and headshots is only 1 part of it, whole point of headshots is to lessen number of revives, 1 med per squad and time limit is another
as i already stated, in new version "reviving fest" is gone, further changes to lessen revives will make medic kit useless(nobody will take it like the civilian kit) so it easier to completely remove it

btw
there are penalties, black&white vision, unable to sprint, gets wounded in 60 seconds>dead

And you solve all those penalties with a first aid kit? and plus, how many times you want! you just have to give a break of 60 seconds!

Ok so! :lol:

Leeu
2009-05-17, 20:58
What's the word on explosives and the new "improved" medic changes?

Currently you can:
* have 5 squadies wiped out by a frag and then squadie 6, medic, runs along and start reviving left/right and centre = whole squad up and running in a minute or two.

* have 5 squadies wiped out by 3 IEDs and then squadie 6 . . . up and running in a minute or two.

* have a guy take an RKG-3 to the head and then a medic . . . up and running in a minute or two.

x.trEm*e
2009-05-17, 21:20
you better give some arguments from your side(ofc not only parroting "realism, realistic etc.")

medic is completely unrealistic thing ingame so judjing only from realistic pov is mistake, there are different ways to change medic system and headshots is only 1 part of it, whole point of headshots is to lessen number of revives, 1 med per squad and time limit is another
as i already stated, in new version "reviving fest" is gone, further changes to lessen revives will make medic kit useless(nobody will take it like the civilian kit) so it easier to completely remove it

btw
there are penalties, black&white vision, unable to sprint, gets wounded in 60 seconds>dead

why do every other FPS shooter have headshots including bf2, AND earlier PR versions and now its removed...? head is head no matter what you do, I tell you can next remove essentials like sprinting or jumping or grenade throwing....

you allready start to considering removing medic class for sure...

dont just remove things if they are difficult in gameplay, just think more how to improve them. this patch will change the medic gameplay issue forever, so bring back the temporary solution like "disabled headshot"

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 00:05
why do every other FPS shooter have headshots including bf2, AND earlier PR versions and now its removed...? head is head no matter what you do, I tell you can next remove essentials like sprinting or jumping or grenade throwing....

you allready start to considering removing medic class for sure...

dont just remove things if they are difficult in gameplay, just think more how to improve them. this patch will change the medic gameplay issue forever, so bring back the temporary solution like "disabled headshot"

Fuzzhead already made a LONG post about this somewhere else, maybe someone can track it down for you..

The gist of what he said:
We gamers have been trained with this sort of "god almighty HEADSHOT" that puts a headshot above and beyond a sucking chest wound, above a shot to the femoral artery, above a shot through the heart... This is, also, far from unrealistic in terms of what disables, completely or almost entirely, a soldier on the field. Its Counter Strike and every other FPS out there that has put a headshot up on a pedestal as the twitch shooting gamers dream. And while a headshot might in most cases kill an individual, there are plenty of other areas that would effectively do the same...

The fact is, as someone said above, the medic class is far from realistic, but its not going anywhere. It gives more teamwork than it harms, and is a great method of keeping tactical squads together.

Now, since we dont have chest shots killing, we also wont have headshots killing.

If you come across a target in the filed, chances are you will be going for center mass. The only real exception here is a sniper[or tank or something] And in which case, the sniper should just be placing shots better to down the medic and such to avoid these issues of the revive[which is NOW fixed as killing someone 60 seconds or under from their revive KILLS them]

Hope that made some sense from where we're coming from

Scot
2009-05-18, 00:50
In that case, why does the headshot still critically wound in 1? It's still useful to aim for the head, no matter what, unless you make shooting the head the same as the body.

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 00:54
In that case, why does the headshot still critically wound in 1? It's still useful to aim for the head, no matter what, unless you make shooting the head the same as the body.

Because we cant make the heart or femoral artery, etc its own specific hit area.... that's one reason ;)
There's still some benefit to a head shot, no doubt about that, but we don't want it interfering with the medic system or the good squad cohesion.

Its a left over from EAs vBF2 making the headshot special ;)

McBumLuv
2009-05-18, 00:57
No, it was worse in BF2. It wasn't even "BOOM, Headshot" because you could shoot people in the head with most weapons and they wouldn't even get wounded :P

EDIT: and by wounded I mean killed (but still revivable)

Spartan0189
2009-05-18, 01:06
Yay, can't wait for the M249 w/ ELCAN, that will totally kill my Grenadier love :D

Nice work Devs :)

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 01:14
No, it was worse in BF2. It wasn't even "BOOM, Headshot" because you could shoot people in the head with most weapons and they wouldn't even get wounded :P

EDIT: and by wounded I mean killed (but still revivable)

sorry, was thinking of sniper ;)

Havent played vbf2 in like 3 years :P

Kill001
2009-05-18, 01:47
I see what you guys did with the manual thar

Very nice, can't wait (^^)

503
2009-05-18, 02:29
No, it was worse in BF2. It wasn't even "BOOM, Headshot" because you could shoot people in the head with most weapons and they wouldn't even get wounded :P

EDIT: and by wounded I mean killed (but still revivable)
Takes 4 pistol shots in the head at point blank range to wound someone in vanilla.

I would have to agree with implementing headshot kills though. In game, when coming across contact, you would usually aim where it's easiest, which is the biggest area, which is the chest. You usually won't have time to adjust your aim to the head, or else you would be dead. Without implementing headshot kills would be unrealistic and annoying. This would be especially annoying for snipers, who have to take out high priority targets such as officers. Without headshots, a medic would just come and revive the guy. Which means the sniper WILL HAVE to take him out AGAIN.

Without headshots, people would just rambo in urban firefights. I'm finding myself doing this more often, mostly by rushing into a compound without first throwing grenades, shooting from the middle of a street where there is no cover at all, because I would know that a medic could just come revive me up. Getting headshot killed in CQB is usually about chance since you won't have time to think. Now CQB is nothing about chance anymore. In insurgency, if the US team comes in with a convoy with their entire team, it would be impossible for the insurgents to win. With so many medics, there will almost be no casualties at all since anyone that gets shot could easily just be revived, no matter whether they've been headshotted or not.

warpig1292
2009-05-18, 04:19
Takes 4 pistol shots in the head at point blank range to wound someone in vanilla.

I would have to agree with implementing headshot kills though. In game, when coming across contact, you would usually aim where it's easiest, which is the biggest area, which is the chest. You usually won't have time to adjust your aim to the head, or else you would be dead. Without implementing headshot kills would be unrealistic and annoying. This would be especially annoying for snipers, who have to take out high priority targets such as officers. Without headshots, a medic would just come and revive the guy. Which means the sniper WILL HAVE to take him out AGAIN.



Well in the next patch they will be killed after you shoot them the second time :mrgreen:

z0MbA
2009-05-18, 04:57
Wonderful changes. Thank you for many of fixes/updates we all waited for.
But there is few things that concerns me. And are listed below. I know I have not played this update yet, but I can imagine because these changes are adressed using precise % and numbers.

Changes:
"-4Xzoom for deployed LMG."
4X zoom on iron PKM and Al Qud.

"-360 degree view for APC."
We should've removed it from Tank not adding it to other vehicles.

"-Only 2 cache at a time"
means Insurgent have less PKM and Al Quds.
New RPG for each cache means there is cache 4 RPG instead of current 3. So this is not concern.

"- increased Insurgent/Taliban SVD Dragunov mag count from 3 to 12."
12 magazine is too much IMO.

"- increased AKS74U recoil by 50% and deceased accuracy by 30%."
I can agree with bad acuracy and heavy recoil of this weapon. But 50% more recoil, no.

"- decreased AK47 accuracy - 30% less accurate than conventional army rifles."
Currently, AKS74U and AK47 has same single shot accuracy. Above change makes AKU74U and AK47 same accuracy. AK47 accuracy can not be that of same as AKS74U. Should be greater.

"-changed all LMG deployed deviation so it now takes eight seconds to settle, but they can be fired from all stances."
Even when Player is standing? that means prone deviation and recoil on standing position if player is still for 8 seconds?

"- changed Insurgent/Taliban RPG deviation - Increased settle time to 4 seconds (from 2). Accuracy reduced to 25% of what it was."
I think this is bad idea. RPG7 should be innacurate than current one but 25% of what it is now will give RPG7 grouping of about 4X3meter at 200meter? And biggest one is settle time. It is too long as of now. In Insurgency it should be fired quickly, increasing settle time further more for RPG7 and conventional LAT do not make any sense.

"- tweaked all recoil animations to be 'snappier' and make fully automatic fire slightly harder to aim with."
I know what this is like. We used to have this. I can't agree.

"- removed front passenger ability to fire weapon for all logistics/transport trucks."
Firing against enemy firing toward truck from vehicle window or throwing smoke for cover is needed IMO. This will totally make truck and it's crew literally 'sitting ducks'.


"- fixed Insurgent technicals and cars greatly reducing the ground damage taken."
Finally! (cry)

One that most concerns me is AK47 accuracy change. It feels as though we took step backward. As of now we use same accuracy for all same classes. that means M4, M16, even PPSH SMG has same accuracy at long range. Only specifically decreasing AK47 accuracy mirrors what was employed back in 0.75 and 0.8 where Insurgent weapons depicted bad-aim Insurgent fire instead of leaving it up to players. Current AK47 accuracy mirrors give all players what weapon will be in real life and leave the fight results to players.

i could not agree more with this

Gore
2009-05-18, 08:32
If I've understood it right, there can only be 9 medics per team at any time, right? Does this apply to the LMG as well? Because it'll be everyones choice to have a scoped automatic lazor, and that'd be very bad ;) Even thought there's 8 secs delay.

BroCop
2009-05-18, 10:07
its 1 LMG per squad and since theres a 9 squad limit yes its 9 LMGs per team (whether you like it or not it seems)

Gore
2009-05-18, 10:15
Loving it.

|}(äbG){|ParaMedic|Ger
2009-05-18, 10:31
Yay, can't wait to play it. Wish I could be one of the stress testers, but 1500-2000 in EST -5 GST is here around 2100-0200 and I have to get out really early on Sundays...

I really like the most changes and I'm sure if something is to imbalanced there will be a patch soon to fix it.;-)

The new revivement system is one of the best changes, cause now the squads really have to fall back when they take casualties, wait until their wonded are treaten and then get back in the fight. And for Medics it is more important that they cover their wounded with smoke or wait until the threat is over.

And the Officer-kit changes are a heavy gameplay change, cause now it is even harder to kill a Squad and make sure it has no rally.

Mercenario(peru)
2009-05-18, 11:15
:thumbsup: Thanks a lot guys....:thumbsup:

Rudd
2009-05-18, 11:26
If I've understood it right, there can only be 9 medics per team at any time, right? Does this apply to the LMG as well? Because it'll be everyones choice to have a scoped automatic lazor, and that'd be very bad ;) Even thought there's 8 secs delay.

your tactics will have to change wont they then? The battlefield just became harsher, and you gotta roll with it! :D

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 12:25
The way I see it, autoriflemen should have been more prevalent than they were in recent versions, and this will help with that

The way I see it, medics were far too many in recent versions, and this too, should help with that

;)

Leeu
2009-05-18, 13:30
So with the amazing new medic system....

Say, a sniper/marksman/guy with a gun spots an officer leading his squad to location X to maybe setup a RP. Now as they're about to huddle and place a RP the sniper/marksman/guy with a gun shoots said officer in the head. Nice, but wait, NOW the sniper still has to either:

* shoot the medic immediately after, because he'd simply revive and heal up the SL

OR

* shoot the medic AND then shoot every other squad mate who's gonna pickup the medic kit AND then also shoot everyone they try to revive (remember we're killing everything twice nowadays)

OR

* shoot the officer a second time when he's revived

all the while trying to avoiding the incoming suppressive fire from the squad mates who saw this and maybe try to put out some suppressive fire of his own.


Maybe consider doubling all ammo loadouts then in 0.86?

alexaus
2009-05-18, 13:47
awsome good job

Rudd
2009-05-18, 13:58
So with the amazing new medic system....

Say, a sniper/marksman/guy with a gun spots an officer leading his squad to location X to maybe setup a RP. Now as they're about to huddle and place a RP the sniper/marksman/guy with a fun shoots said officer in the head. Nice, but wait, NOW the sniper still has to either:

* shoot the medic immediately after, because he'd simply revive and heal up the SL

OR

* shoot the medic AND then shoot every other squad mate who's gonna pickup the medic kit AND then also shoot everyone they try to revive (remember we're killing everything twice nowadays)

OR

* shoot the officer a second time when he's revived

all the while trying to avoiding the incoming suppressive fire from the squad mates who saw this and maybe try to put out some suppressive fire of his own.


Maybe consider doubling all ammo loadouts then in 0.86?

you saying you want it to stay how it is now? 1 officer and 5 medics per squad?

shoot em twice would be the tactic that would be logical, resulting in kills that you can retreat from if necessary.

If they are all shooting you and you are alone...ur fault for being alone really. If they are shooting ur squad and you are all shooting back...what's the problem?! ur in battle! enjoy! It really isn't hard to kill a just revived guy, his dead is in a predicable location, settle, wait, kill. If the medic smokes up then revives...then oh noes! the enemy have used tactics against you...what will you do nao!? that kill doesn't count, omg, what to do?! Use your imagination!

Get ur LMG to shoot through the smoke? Grenadier, AOE that dead dude? Charge (always a laugh with mumble, I was on Bi Ming and som1 shouted FIX BAYONETS, I knew it would be going bad for me in a sec)

head

Because we cant make the heart or femoral artery, etc its own specific hit area.... that's one reason
There's still some benefit to a head shot, no doubt about that, but we don't want it interfering with the medic system or the good squad cohesion.

Its a left over from EAs vBF2 making the headshot special

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 14:10
Agree Rudd, also... this new way[speaking out the butt here as I havent played] should make it FOOLISH for the medic to revive a downed soldier immediately after hes dropped as clearly, the threat is still in the area... If the threat is still in the immediate area, he can easily shoot either the medic or [worse] shoot the just revived Officer which would KILL him beyond revive.

What a smart medic would do would be to get his squad to lay down fire, eliminate the threat, and THEN work to safely revive the soldier giving him time to run down his 60 KILLable timer

This gives the sniper[you] the chance to kill more enemies while they try to kill you[and arent reviving the first soldier just yet]

They might chose to revive him on the spot, which in turns lets you get a DEFINITE kill.

Or they wont. Meaning you have one less soldier firing back at you and can take out their medic, etc.

Its choices really, you take the best one, and these seem fairly good to me, much better than currently at least[immediate revive has no penalty] If they revive the downed medic/officer immediately, then KILL the freshly revived KILLable soldier, if they dont, work on the others.. thats the way I see it at least...

Also, you shouldnt be sniping in a position thats puts you up against an entire squad when they are within easy engaging distance [strictly my opinion];)

Rudd
2009-05-18, 14:13
oh you guys should have seem my medic l33tness on seven gates, really, I was awesome. Been playing SL 99% of the time for weeks, but the magic fingers still heal like they always did :) It was a perfect demonstration of tactical medic healing of a fully crtiically wounded squad, when I was done, they were all 100% health. Shame I can't give lots details...damn NDA.

Just wanted to throw that out there cuz it was so awesome.

thunderway
2009-05-18, 14:40
at begining ... ty for WONDERFULL game ... and for ur hard job ;)*


all new v in pr is like new game

but


1.SL - ironsight ??? that is true ? ... if yes WHY ?

2. Qwai ? hmmm if Us sux with TOW's HAT ... chines push them back to main very quicly ... ok i can agree ... but like Colonel said , make 32 with new zero tank's vs 64 with old fashin qwai

3. medic limmited ? ... is hard now to find GOOD medic in sqad ... so that will be more harder if u can have only one ? (server playing not the Clan War that is different)

4. 60 sec wait when someone revive u ... hmm i agree bleeed to death is ok , but wtf with RP ? ... and FB realistic ... yea ... i died and then opps i come back from space at the rp :/ why we dont change spawnpoints ? if we wana change medic specification

5. IRONSIGHT for SL ?? :/ then i dont wana be a office

6 karbala - apachi = to small for THIS map ! is like bird in trap :/
6a - INS AA ? kill apachi when apachi hear aiming and droping FLARES ? :> what with that?

7 zoom for MG - ... :/ why not add LAT shot to right click to him ? i think it is to much :/ SNIPING with mg ^^ very funny but that is reality not vanila :(

8 ah1 huey at jabal - 3 US apc's + ah1 huey + air LIFT ? .... against mecs APC ? :/ = lets start jabal at mec main :> that will be the same :/

and last WHEN will be 0.87 ? (ironic)

Rudd
2009-05-18, 14:48
1.SL - ironsight ??? that is true ? ... if yes WHY ?

Some maps aren't kind on scopes, SL likes choice


3. medic limmited ? ... is hard now to find GOOD medic in sqad ... so that will be more harder if u can have only one ? (server playing not the Clan War that is different)
I have no trouble finding good medics for public games, work with ur medic, don't expect mother to run around fixing everyone's booboos without help :)

4. 60 sec wait when someone revive u ... hmm i agree bleeed to death is ok , but wtf with RP ? ... and FB realistic ... yea ... i died and then opps i come back from space at the rp :/ why we dont change spawnpoints ? if we wana change medic specification
I have no idea what you said

5. IRONSIGHT for SL ?? :/ then i dont wana be a office
YOU CAN CHOOSE look at the picture!
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1028/086kits.jpg

7 zoom for MG - ... :/ why not add LAT shot to right click to him ? i think it is to much :/ SNIPING with mg ^^ very funny but that is reality not vanila :(
If the at4 etc had a scope as standard they would I think, maybe for Russians

8 ah1 huey at jabal - 3 US apc's + ah1 huey + air LIFT ? .... against mecs APC ? :/ = lets start jabal at mec main :> that will be the same :/
Lets see how it plays out I guess


some of the information u asked for has been given already

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 14:49
1. SL has a CHOICE now.... Iron or ACOG

3. Instead of complaining that the 4 medics in your squad suck, just make sure the ONE you have doesnt. Ive never had a problem getting a decent medic/one who will learn in a few minutes. Its not rocket science. its CPR once or twice just in case, epipen, and then healing. Maybe smoke if needed...

4. 60 second wait means if you are killed within 60 seconds of revive[meaning you were prolly revived in a still hostile area] then you will be considered KILLED and ant be revived. This rewards clearing an area before reviving everyone.

5. YOU HAVE THE CHOICE

7. Zoom on a weapon doesnt simply make it a lazer accurate beam cannon. Deviation will still exist, in fact, I wouldnt doubt if since its ZOOMED IN, youll think its deviating MORE than it used to because youre seeing rounds hit "further" from one another due to the zoom

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 14:54
OkitaMakoto;1026337']Fuzzhead already made a LONG post about this somewhere else, maybe someone can track it down for you..

The gist of what he said:
We gamers have been trained with this sort of "god almighty HEADSHOT" that puts a headshot above and beyond a sucking chest wound, above a shot to the femoral artery, above a shot through the heart... This is, also, far from unrealistic in terms of what disables, completely or almost entirely, a soldier on the field. Its Counter Strike and every other FPS out there that has put a headshot up on a pedestal as the twitch shooting gamers dream. And while a headshot might in most cases kill an individual, there are plenty of other areas that would effectively do the same...

The fact is, as someone said above, the medic class is far from realistic, but its not going anywhere. It gives more teamwork than it harms, and is a great method of keeping tactical squads together.

Now, since we dont have chest shots killing, we also wont have headshots killing.

If you come across a target in the filed, chances are you will be going for center mass. The only real exception here is a sniper[or tank or something] And in which case, the sniper should just be placing shots better to down the medic and such to avoid these issues of the revive[which is NOW fixed as killing someone 60 seconds or under from their revive KILLS them]

Hope that made some sense from where we're coming from

I remember, because he was replying to one of my posts. I insisted to have an official statement on this. This position is debatable, but IMHO the new medic system will lead to a whole new nasty tactical habit:

The relentless picking up of medic kits (which makes no sense in the first place - a kit doesn't give you the knowledge). This reminds me of old BF2 times where you could spawn on your SL, and as soon as he died he would leave the SQ and join back so he could spawn on the new living SL. It became part of the game pretty quickly :/

What will happen if someone manages to pick up an enemy medic kit ? And how to prevent 2 squads with one medic each to merge into one squad with 2 medics ?

I am really curious to see this new version at work to see the differences between the theoratical part and how the players will actually act !

Most changes are very good, though.

Ace42
2009-05-18, 14:57
This reminds me of old BF2 times where you could spawn on your SL, and as soon as he died he would leave the SQ and join back so he could spawn on the new living SL. It became part of the game pretty quickly :/

Urm, you can't join squads whilst dead in vBF2, only during briefing or alive. This isn't possible.

Rudd
2009-05-18, 15:02
The relentless picking up of medic kits (which makes no sense in the first place - a kit doesn't give you the knowledge).

What will happen if someone manages to pick up an enemy medic kit ? And how to prevent 2 squads with one medic each to merge into one squad with 2 medics ?

1) medics didn't go to medical school, all soldiers (at least in US and British armies, I assume the rest do too, but I don't know as a fact) get basic live saver training, that means basic pharmaceutacle intervention (adrenaline/morphine) AED training (thats the defibs) and other life saving training. Sure, the average guy isn't gonna be performing surgery. But ingame we don't perform surgery, medic is a gameplay dynamic, rather than a black and white realistic aspect of the battle. So a dude picking up the actual medical kit, isn't stupid.

you have 2 medics or more, ok u can revive more, but the squads you come accross will have more grenades and possible other goodies to kill you with cuz they have a spare slot. and merging in the way you say will take more effort than reward

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 15:02
Urm, you can't join squads whilst dead in vBF2, only during briefing or alive. This isn't possible.

Which part of "This reminds me of old BF2 times" needs clarification ? :-? :idea:

OkitaMakoto
2009-05-18, 15:03
I remember, because he was replying to one of my posts. I insisted to have an official statement on this. This position is debatable, but IMHO the new medic system will lead to a whole new nasty tactical habit:

The relentless picking up of medic kits (which makes no sense in the first place - a kit doesn't give you the knowledge). This reminds me of old BF2 times where you could spawn on your SL, and as soon as he died he would leave the SQ and join back so he could spawn on the new living SL. It became part of the game pretty quickly :/

What will happen if someone manages to pick up an enemy medic kit ? And how to prevent 2 squads with one medic each to merge into one squad with 2 medics ?

I am really curious to see this new version at work to see the differences between the theoratical part and how the players will actually act !

Most changes are very good, though.

Im pretty sure a number of coding and other steps were taken to eliminate issues you brought up. There was a thread on them during testing...

But its not fool proof concerning some ways to possibly get more medics in squads, etc, but like I said, steps were taken to make the ways to do that either not possible, or just an annoying step for a relatively small advantage. Besides, if you can get 2 medics, its still better than being able to get, say, 5... :P

Basically, the last I saw, its not perfect, but it will definitely REDUCE the number of medics in the field... which, in the end, is the ultimate goal, I guess ;)

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 15:03
1) medics didn't go to medical school, all soldiers (at least in US and British armies, I assume the rest do too, but I don't know as a fact) get basic live saver training, that means basic pharmaceutacle intervention (adrenaline/morphine) AED training (thats the defibs) and other life saving training. Sure, the average guy isn't gonna be performing surgery. But ingame we don't perform surgery, medic is a gameplay dynamic, rather than a black and white realistic aspect of the battle. So a dude picking up the actual medical kit, isn't stupid.

you have 2 medics or more, ok u can revive more, but the squads you come accross will have more grenades and possible other goodies to kill you with cuz they have a spare slot.

Fair enough. But that won't change the problem a bit :mrgreen:

Ace42
2009-05-18, 15:07
Which part of "This reminds me of old BF2 times" needs clarification ? :-? :idea:

Clearly the "old". That exploit has been out of vBF2 for as long as I have been playing it, and we're looking at a framework of several years now.

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 15:12
That didn't make it any less of a problem, which is why it got fixed (after a long wait that ruined the game experience for many players, if I might add)

The point is that something like this should be avoided, and with the new medic system I predict that picking-up-the-kit-of-the-fallen-medic will become a major tactic/habit. But let's wait and see how this works out, it can't be worse than now !

Yesterday on mestia, the typical squad was SL + 5 medics. I can't wait for the scopeless SL, btw ! :)

Ace42
2009-05-18, 15:27
The point is that something like this should be avoided, and with the new medic system I predict that picking-up-the-kit-of-the-fallen-medic will become a major tactic/habit. But let's wait and see how this works out, it can't be worse than now !

Yes, exploits should be avoided. But considering that the forum is chocker-block with people of varying degrees of intelligence, all armed with mystic eight-balls and claiming vast portents of doom are lighting up the heavens; no innovations or developments would get off the ground without community-wide play-testing occurring POST-implementation. Personally, I don't see the problem of people picking up fallen medic kits, AFAIK squad limitation rules still apply, so it's not like the person respawning is going to be able to go medic again and stack the teams, anymore than you can get squads full of suiciding snipers dropping kits at present. If a squad wants to wittle-down its scoped riflemen, grenadiers, L-AT and Auto-rifleman until there's just the SL and one medic left - that's a prudent compromise. And as pointed out elsewhere, it's not unrealistic that someone can drop their guns and ammo in favour of picking up an epi-pen, field dressings, bandages and clotting agent.

paratrooper[BG]
2009-05-18, 15:28
at begining ... ty for WONDERFULL game ... and for ur hard job ;)*


all new v in pr is like new game

but


1.SL - ironsight ??? that is true ? ... if yes WHY ?

2. Qwai ? hmmm if Us sux with TOW's HAT ... chines push them back to main very quicly ... ok i can agree ... but like Colonel said , make 32 with new zero tank's vs 64 with old fashin qwai

3. medic limmited ? ... is hard now to find GOOD medic in sqad ... so that will be more harder if u can have only one ? (server playing not the Clan War that is different)

4. 60 sec wait when someone revive u ... hmm i agree bleeed to death is ok , but wtf with RP ? ... and FB realistic ... yea ... i died and then opps i come back from space at the rp :/ why we dont change spawnpoints ? if we wana change medic specification

5. IRONSIGHT for SL ?? :/ then i dont wana be a office

6 karbala - apachi = to small for THIS map ! is like bird in trap :/
6a - INS AA ? kill apachi when apachi hear aiming and droping FLARES ? :> what with that?

7 zoom for MG - ... :/ why not add LAT shot to right click to him ? i think it is to much :/ SNIPING with mg ^^ very funny but that is reality not vanila :(

8 ah1 huey at jabal - 3 US apc's + ah1 huey + air LIFT ? .... against mecs APC ? :/ = lets start jabal at mec main :> that will be the same :/

and last WHEN will be 0.87 ? (ironic)
your poin 7 http://johniniraq.org/WeapVeh/Freakwithrounds.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/CSA-2006-01-12-095303_M249SAW.jpg/773px-CSA-2006-01-12-095303_M249SAW.jpg

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 15:36
Yes, exploits should be avoided. But considering that the forum is chocker-block with people of varying degrees of intelligence, all armed with mystic eight-balls and claiming vast portents of doom are lighting up the heavens; no innovations or developments would get off the ground without community-wide play-testing occurring POST-implementation.

Very true, this is why I am curious about this new version. Let's wait & see, after all maybe I'm wrong ;)

Hietaa
2009-05-18, 15:53
It is fun to follow this arguing before every release when those who haven't tested it tell how fucked up the gameplay will be. ;)

Rudd
2009-05-18, 16:14
maybe I'm wrong

this seems a likely scenario :wink:

TheParadoX
2009-05-18, 16:23
It is fun to follow this arguing before every release when those who haven't tested it tell how fucked up the gameplay will be. ;)

So now no one can question anything anymore ? As long as it is argumented and intelligible, I don't see where the problem is. :idea:

BroCop
2009-05-18, 16:26
May I ask a question about the MEC...why is MEC being nerfed in every single release?

77SiCaRiO77
2009-05-18, 18:20
OkitaMakoto;1026337']
If you come across a target in the filed, chances are you will be going for center mass. The only real exception here is a sniper[or tank or something] And in which case, the sniper should just be placing shots better to down the medic and such to avoid these issues of the revive[which is NOW fixed as killing someone 60 seconds or under from their revive KILLS them]

Hope that made some sense from where we're coming from

didnt a military advisor called jhony said something about a military investigation to some soldiers because somebody thought that they murdered captured insurgents just because most of them where shoted in the head , and turned out to be that scoped weapons (m16's) are very accuracy ??

Kirra
2009-05-18, 18:22
77SiCaRiO77;1027032']didnt a military advisor called jhony said something about a military investigation to some soldiers because somebody thought that they murdered captured insurgents just because most of them where shoted in the head , and turned out to be that scoped weapons (m16's) are very accuracy ??

Or because when the only exposed part of your body is your head and shoulders wich is often the case in urban warfare, there is a pretty high probability that thats where you will be hit?

DankE_SPB
2009-05-18, 20:22
May I ask a question about the MEC...why is MEC being nerfed in every single release?

can you give some examples? they just different, thats all

Human_001
2009-05-18, 20:25
77SiCaRiO77;1027032']didnt a military advisor called jhony said something about a military investigation to some soldiers because somebody thought that they murdered captured insurgents just because most of them where shoted in the head , and turned out to be that scoped weapons (m16's) are very accuracy ??

Oh was that story from Project Reality military advisor? I watched that episode on History channel. The guy said "thats pretty much the only part of their body they expose when they are firing."

This kind of "We won because our weapon was superior to enemys weapon" is everywhere on BOTH side of conflict in ANY conflict. While some of these could be true, I personally feel that since these stories are on both side of conflict, its likely because only one who emerged on winning side is the one who came back alive to tell the story.

Tiny 1,2 or even 3 MOA accuracy difference between military rifles used in military combat situation don't make much of difference does it? But it does alot in FPS game.

Rollonio
2009-05-19, 04:00
I'm sorry if someone has brought this up but are there any chance to make bridges repairable again?

USMC_Cook
2009-05-19, 04:18
^
That's actually the question I was about to ask.

Also, why such a large increase for AK deviations? It sounds like .8 deviation, which was pretty over the top.

Other than that, I'm pretty excited about the new release. Especially being able to spawn with MG.

BroCop
2009-05-19, 08:34
can you give some examples? they just different, thats all

Gaskin, reduced amount of ammo, T72 from T90 (not sure if the stats of it are different though) and removal of any kind of squad transport other than a APC which are replaced by far inferior ones.

The only thing that didnt nerfed the MEC was the addition of the RPG 26 but that doesnt justify all the downsides (especially the latest one....its hard enough for the MEC to have ammo with 8 clips and its gonna be even harder)

Hietaa
2009-05-19, 08:37
So now no one can question anything anymore ? As long as it is argumented and intelligible, I don't see where the problem is. :idea:

No it is not about asking questions i see nothing wrong in it but before every release after the changelog has been published people start complaining how the gameplay has been totally fucked up and the changes wont be good for the teamwork before they have even tested it out.

DankE_SPB
2009-05-19, 09:02
Gaskin, reduced amount of ammo, T72 from T90 (not sure if the stats of it are different though) and removal of any kind of squad transport other than a APC which are replaced by far inferior ones.
The only thing that didnt nerfed the MEC was the addition of the RPG 26 but that doesnt justify all the downsides (especially the latest one....its hard enough for the MEC to have ammo with 8 clips and its gonna be even harder)

T-72 is a mirror of M1 Abrams charasteristics
Gaskin- imo no probs here, british AA also has no guns, US Avenger now has really low amount of ammo for its guns
BTR-60- hmm, compare it to US stryker, they are nearly equal in capabilities
transport- they still have trucks, BTR-60, BMP-3
reduced ammo- not a big problem, you do not die very often because you are out of ammo, do you?;) add here no medic spam(means you can get more roflmans with ammo in squad)
btw, MEC were given BMP-3- this beast can justify a lot of nerfing:razz:

evya
2009-05-19, 10:07
also i got question, whats about the specialist,as its not in the spawn menu anymore?...
and just get headshots back for sniper only, and everyone is happy:/ sniper cannot do alot unless someone alone/on a ladder/in battle with one of friendly sniper squads/in AA or MG or AT. thats all, nothing else, the sniper is also need to take out enemy high priotery, or else just dont give him a weapon:/ he can fire one bullet per 4 seconds and hit, will 5 people shot at him at 30 rounds before he shot again, one of the bullets WILL hit him, almost in any range...

Hietaa
2009-05-19, 10:29
also i got question, whats about the specialist,as its not in the spawn menu anymore?...
and just get headshots back for sniper only, and everyone is happy:/ sniper cannot do alot unless someone alone/on a ladder/in battle with one of friendly sniper squads/in AA or MG or AT. thats all, nothing else, the sniper is also need to take out enemy high priotery, or else just dont give him a weapon:/ he can fire one bullet per 4 seconds and hit, will 5 people shot at him at 30 rounds before he shot again, one of the bullets WILL hit him, almost in any range...

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1028/086kits.jpg

Snipers don't need headshots to kill in my opinion.

BroCop
2009-05-19, 10:39
T-72 is a mirror of M1 Abrams charasteristics
Gaskin- imo no probs here, british AA also has no guns, US Avenger now has really low amount of ammo for its guns
BTR-60- hmm, compare it to US stryker, they are nearly equal in capabilities
transport- they still have trucks, BTR-60, BMP-3
reduced ammo- not a big problem, you do not die very often because you are out of ammo, do you?;) add here no medic spam(means you can get more roflmans with ammo in squad)
btw, MEC were given BMP-3- this beast can justify a lot of nerfing:razz:

the BTR needs a single LAT shot to be destroyed (Stryker needs at least 2)
by trasport other than APC's the BMP and BTR dont count as an alternative means of transport (well they are APC's )

in my experience 3 things that get you insta killed as infantry is: staying out in the open, fighting superior numbers and running out of ammo. and your forgeting that 1 squaddie is a MG dude now which means equal amount of ammo bags (and you forgot the existance of the Specialist kit which means if youre lucky youll get a max of 3 ammo bags of which 2 will most likely used to refill medics epipens or LAT's...and even with a ammo refill youll still waste 50% of your ammo in a single firefight against a full squad)

DankE_SPB
2009-05-19, 11:06
the BTR needs a single LAT shot to be destroyed (Stryker needs at least 2)
by trasport other than APC's the BMP and BTR dont count as an alternative means of transport (well they are APC's )

in my experience 3 things that get you insta killed as infantry is: staying out in the open, fighting superior numbers and running out of ammo.

yes, now count how many times you've been killed with zero mags left;)

and your forgeting that 1 squaddie is a MG dude now which means equal amount of ammo bags (and you forgot the existance of the Specialist kit which means if youre lucky youll get a max of 3 ammo bags of which 2 will most likely used to refill medics epipens or LAT's...
well, this is theory, practice show its very rare when you're completely out of ammo and cant resupply it, except of roflmans there are ammo boxes, supply crates, enemy ammo boxes, enemy kits(enemy kits with ammo bags;))
and even with a ammo refill youll still waste 50% of your ammo in a single firefight against a full squad)

wut? you need to fire ~24 mags(6 man, 50% of 8=4) to kill or make enemy squad to retreat?

the BTR needs a single LAT shot to be destroyed

only in back(LAV-25 is also dead if you hit it into back), frontal armor withstands it and you're not even disabled usually, hell i even managed to get to main base at Fools Road after being hit with HEAT round from Chechen T-62, yes BTR was on fire, but i lasted so long so it could get repairs

BroCop
2009-05-19, 11:19
in pub games rarely....PRT on the other hand made me die with 0 every single match I played (multiple times even). Hell yesterday I had a round of Asad Khal...even with a ammo bag I still ran out of ammo (was holed in a building) and had to do a suicide rush with the single grenade I was left with.

Try killing someone without ammo first to get his kit.besides I dont really do pubs (mostly playing in the PRT...pubbing is rarely and only during holidays) and in the tourney there is only a 90% chance for your supply crates to be destroyed and you will end up being far from your closest resupply point

lets see....4 mags of 20 bullets (im talking about suppresive fire). This is in cover not open areas

it cant survive a side hit (I always hit em by the side and they blow up immediately)

Blade.3510
2009-05-19, 12:48
I need an estimated relaese date im sorry for asking but i wouldnt unless it was important because i need to get new graphics card before hand any recomendations on model aswell?

Leeu
2009-05-19, 13:11
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1028/086kits.jpg

Snipers don't need headshots to kill in my opinion.

I agree they don't, in 0.86 all they need is just two bullets... to the foot or ass or shoulder should do fine.

Charity Case
2009-05-19, 13:56
I need an estimated relaese date im sorry for asking but i wouldnt unless it was important because i need to get new graphics card before hand any recomendations on model aswell?Gaz;1023400']The release date will be posted once everything is ironed out and finalized, but you should expect a release prior to the end of May 2009.(in the original post)

AfterDune
2009-05-19, 13:58
I need an estimated relaese date im sorry for asking but i wouldnt unless it was important because i need to get new graphics card before hand any recomendations on model aswell?
Just go to the store to get a news card man, lol, why wait 'til you know when the patch is out? ;)

DankE_SPB
2009-05-19, 14:07
in pub games rarely....PRT
this solves our discussion i think ;-)

arakis
2009-05-19, 14:23
YouTube - Dead or Alive - That's The Way (I Like It) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pi0xZZr3zk)

that`s the way I like it!

BroCop
2009-05-19, 19:44
this solves our discussion i think ;-)

Not really...there are numerous tournaments out there and most of the pubbers are sadly a bunch of vBF2 noobs EA brought us who give up the mod after getting kicked on almost all servers for soloing tanks. To deal with those noobs I need a total of 2 clips to get em killed because they find diving in the middle of the road gives them enough cover

PRT itself has quite a big player base, not to mention how many in other tourneys

Zoddom
2009-05-19, 20:03
Snipers don't need headshots to kill in my opinion.

and WHY?
Today i was sniper, shot at least 5 people and got only 1 killpoint? I dont know about the kill-point system in PR but it seemed that theyve been revived and i didnt get the kill.... what about that???

DankE_SPB
2009-05-19, 20:19
i didnt get the kill....

if you play for kills and k\d ratio you better find another game

CAS_117
2009-05-19, 20:43
if you play for kills and k\d ratio you better find another game

If you play for getting killed I think you found the right game.

Rudd
2009-05-19, 20:49
If you play for getting killed I think you found the right game.

I disagree there, if everyone played hte game with patience and treating their own life as more important than one kill, then the game would be very different.

Want to get a kill more then prevent ur death? Then you'll find a way to die, you'll probably get a kill though, maybe more depending on skill and luck.

llPANCHOll
2009-05-20, 00:24
and WHY?
Today i was sniper, shot at least 5 people and got only 1 killpoint? I dont know about the kill-point system in PR but it seemed that theyve been revived and i didnt get the kill.... what about that???

Here is the Trick..
Observe the Enemy...
Shoot the Enemy...
Watch the Body hit the ground..
Wait for Medic to show up.. (this is the hard part, it could be as long as 3 minutes)
Shoot Medic..

VWALLA... 2 Kills!!

drs79
2009-05-20, 02:32
Killing medics are key as el Pancho pointed out

dracflamloc
2009-05-20, 03:25
As a new player to PR, if I get the .85 release on the site right now, will there be an incremental upgrade patch released or will I need to download 3 gigs again to get .86?

Thanks (Sorry if this has been asked before)

Rudd
2009-05-20, 03:31
As a new player to PR, if I get the .85 release on the site right now, will there be an incremental upgrade patch released or will I need to download 3 gigs again to get .86?

Thanks (Sorry if this has been asked before)

there will be both full downloads and a seperate incremental patch avaliable to download :)

(the first for new players, the second for existing players)

Leeu
2009-05-20, 04:09
and WHY?
Today i was sniper, shot at least 5 people and got only 1 killpoint? I dont know about the kill-point system in PR but it seemed that theyve been revived and i didnt get the kill.... what about that???

He was either sarcastic or delirious.

Seems in order to kill a whole enemy squad, you gotto shoot them and then wait for the medic to pop by and kill him too, before he starts reviving, of course if a 2nd medic arrives the cycle perpetually repeats.

In 0.86 they fixed that, we now don't need an infinite amount of bullets, only 2 for every person you intend to kill. Kinda like Zombies. Kill them once and then again when they rise from the ground. (sigh) I miss the days when headshots and similarly devastating wounds killed em dead and buried.

Masterbake
2009-05-20, 08:03
In terms of the patch, am I the only person who would prefer the devs to just make a bigger 0.9 update and wait for the 1.5 patch to be out?

I think regular updating won't detract from the main playerbase but it certainly puts new players off.
About a month after i started playing 0.7, the next version was released and I really didn't feel like upgrading until I had lots of free time in the holidays. As a dedicated player it doesn't seem like a problem, but when PR is new to you, you want to be able to get used to it for a while before it's a new patch and everyone just wants to play with their new toys.

BroCop
2009-05-20, 09:58
Did you actually read the first post...this isnt the release for 1.5 its a regular release. 0.9 will be also regular and for 1.5 (unless you plan to play with a bunch of bugs and gameplay issues for the next 6-9 months...maybe even more)