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dbzao
2009-04-28, 14:13
A little update from the upcoming 0.86 patch.

The Medic and the Automatic Rifleman kits join the spawn menu as limited kits.
Also we included an Officer ironsights variant.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/1028/086kits.jpg

The Medic and the Automatic Rifleman kits are limited to 1 per squad with at least 3 members and unlimited numbers per team. So you can always have a medic and a SAW gunner in your squad no matter what the team is doing.

The kits are now separated in the following groups:

Normal kits (unlimited)

Rifleman (optics and ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist

Vehicle kits (unlimited)

Crewman
Pilot

Infantry kits (squad limited)

Officer (optics and ironsights)
Medic
Automatic Rifleman

Infantry kits (squad and team limited)

Marksman
Rifleman AT
Grenadier

Specialist kits (team limited)

Anti-Tank
Anti-Air
Engineer
Sniper

Oh, and here's a little gem that is available since 0.8 but wasn't documented because I always forgot to do it. :p
Right-click to call medic when critically wounded and you expired both of your "medic!" calls.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5663/086giveup.jpg

Lt Mic
2009-04-28, 14:20
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

Oak
2009-04-28, 14:23
This is a great change.

I think you should stress the difference between ironsight and optics a bit more (maybe change the name to "Riflemen (optics)", otherwise the difference might not be noticeable for new players.

E4$Y
2009-04-28, 14:24
YAY! That's what alot of ppl were blabing about is getting implemented in game ! Good job guys!

motherdear
2009-04-28, 14:32
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

2 might be better, but in a normal rifle company you wouldn't have every third person be a medic would ya ;) i do agree that it is generally better, but i also think that we should give this up just to get a bit more realism

Ricardo-SC
2009-04-28, 14:32
OMG!!! Officer with scope and without! I think I will cry...:cry: :mrgreen:

crazy11
2009-04-28, 14:33
1 medic will be enough if you work as a squad.

Psyko
2009-04-28, 14:37
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

i have never agreed with this. if your medic sucks then he shouldnt be medic.

Lt Mic
2009-04-28, 14:38
I still think that 2 Meds in Sq is better(max.9 meds for 32 players...)
One might be not enough for HARDCORE CQB fights...
but now i spotted optics on M249 SAW....- i think that optics are making AR kit more Vanilla...
Officer ironsights is EPIC :)

PS. NO edit... -> FAIL

masterceo
2009-04-28, 14:38
thanks for adding automatic rifleman to spawn menu

masterceo
2009-04-28, 14:40
how can optics make auto rifleman more vanilla? they do have them in real life

Skodz
2009-04-28, 14:41
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

Why ?

1 medic is great.

Those changes sounds good to me.

RedAlertSF
2009-04-28, 14:44
OMGWTFBBQ this is like best news ever! :D

Skodz
2009-04-28, 14:44
Why can I not edit my post ?

0.86 patch ? Once bf2 1.5 patch is out ? Cool

z0MbA
2009-04-28, 14:47
This is so win.

Cannot wait.

Dosedmonkey
2009-04-28, 14:55
Not being funny, but the M249 SAW is rarer then other kits like Marksman and sniper in the British army, surely the marksman kit should be on the spawn menu not the SAW?

Lt Mic
2009-04-28, 14:56
how can optics make auto rifleman more vanilla? they do have them in real life

no optics in Vanilla but AR will be useless in cqb -short distance ect.

1 med will make PR more HARDCORE - Teamwork improved -so i was wrong thats nice idea

0.86 patch ? Once bf2 1.5 patch is out ?
SAD you still have hope for 1.5 patch? before 2010? SARCASM/IRONY

Give us new PR faster :P before Vanilla 1.5 patch

Zar2Roc
2009-04-28, 14:59
no optics in Vanilla but AR will be useless in cqb -short distance ect.

afaik AR is for laying suppresive from med-long range, not for bum-rushing cqb fighting

good stuff devs

Dosedmonkey
2009-04-28, 15:01
Also, surely the SAW should have a SUSAT not optics, being British army. Why not keep M249 short range, and add SUSATs to land rovers, as they are support weapons and dominate in the open out in afgahn, hence forest/city fighting.

If your feeling adventurous, Jackals and Mastevs would be nice too see also.

http://www.defenselink.mil/DODCMSShare/NewsPhoto/2006-05/060420-M-9529D-016.jpg

Dosedmonkey
2009-04-28, 15:02
Ooops I meant to post his...

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/3EE6713B-2AAF-437F-ACAB-A8E21D1B95B8/0/jackal02.jpg

gazzthompson
2009-04-28, 15:12
1. jackal and all the british UOR kit has been suggested, search ect.
2. the scope on SAW - can be that they dont have a image for the susat SAW and have the Eclan one instead, could be that they feel it will be not worth the effort as scopes are near enough same. and various other reasons why there is a Eclan on the british SAW...... i imagine its still WIP .....
4. SAW rarer than sniper ?? ....... i dont know the specific number but SAW's are every squad at least (like PR now)

DEVS - great looking stuff!

Cpl.Small
2009-04-28, 15:12
please don't start going on about Jackals and Mastiffs, they've already been suggested a thousand times

SuperTimo
2009-04-28, 15:16
stop jumping to conclusions thats a very small picture of the SAW from the side, who knows what scope it is.

Looks like good changes, with one medic there is a chance of killing a sqd and having them stay down for once in a while. instead of having revive fests all the time because you missed one of the 3 medics.

single.shot (nor)
2009-04-28, 15:19
-i love you guys...

[wow]titan
2009-04-28, 15:23
This is Great!!!! GOOD JOB
Say No to vanilla medics again!

Zi8
2009-04-28, 15:27
Great changes guys, especially the officer kit with choice to choose between scope and irons. Keep it up!

Dosedmonkey
2009-04-28, 15:29
Cpl.Small;1006440']please don't start going on about Jackals and Mastiffs, they've already been suggested a thousand times

The USMC and British do need their armoury expanded to realisticaly accommodate. Those trucks the British are currently using just look out of place.

4. SAW rarer than sniper ?? ....... i dont know the specific number but SAW's are every squad at least (like PR now)

DEVS - great looking stuff!

Okay they probably about 2 SAW to each Sniper out in Afgahn with the brits, but the L86A1 is the prime support weapon, which is used as a marksman kit not support in PR.

I am liking the Squadleader having no scope options. :-)

T.Nightingale
2009-04-28, 15:32
Medic thingy: Yeh good for clan matches crap for pubbing. Stops medic teams and random lone medics but it severly injures squads in PR pub.
But i say all sacrifices in the sake of reality but we NEED and this is unanimous that we need a iron AR option. BTW that Give up/Call Medic doesn't put up a symbol for medics it only uses the sound clip.

But yeh the medic thing is a bummer but i think itll be accepted along with all the other add-ons by people that are on PR for the very reason PR was created.

Welshboy
2009-04-28, 15:35
Medic thingy: Yeh good for clan matches crap for pubbing. Stops medic teams and random lone medics but it severly injures squads in PR pub.
But i say all sacrifices in the sake of reality but we NEED and this is unanimous that we need a iron AR option. BTW that Give up/Call Medic doesn't put up a symbol for medics it only uses the sound clip.

But yeh the medic thing is a bummer but i think itll be accepted along with all the other add-ons by people that are on PR for the very reason PR was created.

It does

Also, Medics are way too spammy at the moment, i fully agree with the decision to restrict it to 1 per squad.

gazzthompson
2009-04-28, 15:37
Okay they probably about 2 SAW to each Sniper out in Afgahn with the brits, but the L86A1 is the prime support weapon, which is used as a marksman kit not support in PR.


sources please? as i believe this to be incorrect ... the LSW is now a marksmen weapon IRL (source (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafregiment/forceprotection/l86lightsupportweaponlsw.cfm))

as for the SAW to sniper ratio... ill leave that up to some one with more knowledge, but im pretty much 100% that there is alot more SAW's than snipers in a infantry battalion or any level, whether it be platoon or regiment.

Dosedmonkey
2009-04-28, 15:42
Thats just the RAF regiment, all internet sources just say it is designed as a support weapon, and even on the RAF website, it has support weapon in its name. The special barrel is used to disipate heat quicker on full auto mode then the L85, and has extra hand grip rear tobe rotated freely, in the words of another website, the modern Bren gun.

Anyway, as far as the SAW goes, I don't mind it being the British weapon, just scoped, I've not seen that with Brits before, if you want scoped support, L85 is your gun.

bosco_
2009-04-28, 15:49
I'm sure our currently serving British Military Advisors would jump in if something was fundamentally wrong. ;)

supahpingi
2009-04-28, 15:50
This is probably goign to be the best feature of 0.9

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-28, 15:55
One medic is not enough. In most times the medic always dies. Pls change to 2 medics per squad.

Outlawz7
2009-04-28, 15:55
This is probably going to be the best feature of 0.9

Err, no, it's going to be in 0.86?

cyberzomby
2009-04-28, 15:55
Awesome news! Officer iron sight option <3! LMG and Medic limited kit in the menu <3, call medic right click <3! LOVELY!

gazzthompson
2009-04-28, 15:56
Thats just the RAF regiment, all internet sources just say it is designed as a support weapon, and even on the RAF website, it has support weapon in its name. The special barrel is used to disipate heat quicker on full auto mode then the L85, and has extra hand grip rear tobe rotated freely, in the words of another website, the modern Bren gun.

Anyway, as far as the SAW goes, I don't mind it being the British weapon, just scoped, I've not seen that with Brits before, if you want scoped support, L85 is your gun.

the LSW was designed as a support weapon (LSW - light support weapon) they then realized it was rubbish in this role and made it a DMR .

as for SAW, this video here :

YouTube - 9 Plt PB Cupples afghan 08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86YdgoBGf3g&feature=related)

is of the current tour, and has alot of the urgent operation requirement kit . (acogs, rails ect) and the majority of SAWs have sights on. also at the end of the video, its the perfect chance to see a real sections weapon compositions , note the SAW in each (and the masses of UGL's)

Skodz
2009-04-28, 15:58
One medic is not enough. In most times the medic always dies. Pls change to 2 medics per squad.

No.

Judging with the amount of people complaining about it, it proves how people was overusing this kit. New kit limitation are great.

=QTF= always uses 1 medic/squad.

No more medic squad. :)

Jigsaw
2009-04-28, 16:03
Thank you Devs, absolutely fantastic news.

Always been waiting for an Iron Sight Officer variant and the medics in PR at the moment are waaay too spammy, 1 per squad is definitely enough. Again with the SAW this is without a doubt the correct way to go, light machine guns are the backbone of any infantry squad and now I can always make sure my squad has one, brilliant.

Once again, thankyou.

ReaperMAC
2009-04-28, 16:05
no optics in Vanilla but AR will be useless in cqb -short distance ect.

Yes, cause you've OBVIOUSLY have tried out the new Auto-Rifleman haven't you? :roll:

Good work DB :)

JacenSolo
2009-04-28, 16:07
Wouav, good news!!

Rissien
2009-04-28, 16:15
Great news about the medic, though sometimes we've had 2 medics in the squad due to high losses it still works fine. Now the AR kit in the kit selection is even better. That is something I have been hoping for awhile now. Been many times weve needed the support from one but unable to get it because theres no crates nearby.

Rudd
2009-04-28, 16:30
having only one medic will make the battleground alot harsher, which is good I guess.

The rest, great work. Great to have the choice of a no scope officer.

I hope scoped LMG will have a CQB mode as well, so that you can use those tiny ironsights on top of the scope or something.

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-28, 16:46
=QTF= always uses 1 medic/squad.


We are not =QTF=;)

We use 2 medics in our squad. It`s just safer.
In my opinion 2 medics are better. Like it is usually on public server a medic which is not in your sqaud dont heal or get you. Therefore 2 medics a safer and better.

Alex6714
2009-04-28, 16:50
3 or 4 medics is even safer. In fact 6 is better.

Nice to see something done with the medic system.:smile:

Farks
2009-04-28, 16:51
Me likey very muchey! :D

CodeRedFox
2009-04-28, 16:55
With one medic per squad I guess the medic will have to be careful, stay back and not be the first one in (which I've seen allot in multiple medic squads)

Hopefully with one medic per squad we will see less zombie squads attacking over and over.

"WTF I killed almost every guy, how did they revive so fast?"

Jaymz
2009-04-28, 16:57
Just so everyone is aware, that's an ELCAN on the M249. It's the only MG optic that will be ready for 0.86 but they are planned for almost every faction (we'll change it to a SUSAT for the Brits in time).

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-28, 17:05
CodeRedFox;1006580']With one medic per squad I guess the medic will have to be careful, stay back and not be the first one in (which I've seen allot in multiple medic squads)

Hopefully with one medic per squad we will see less zombie squads attacking over and over.

"WTF I killed almost every guy, how did they revive so fast?"

Dont know what you thinking, but it`s a combat medic kit. Iam not waiting for a kill. I go out and kill something. And by the way I heal and revive my people;)

Threedroogs
2009-04-28, 17:06
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

i never want two medics in my squad. i love this change. now i dont even have to worry about looking up after a few new guys join my squad and seeing 3 medics.

Nitneuc
2009-04-28, 17:14
Will Russians/CMO/Chineses get the x4 ironsight zoom thingy on their LMG or did you guys finally decided to let the ironsighted gun the way they are (x1 zoom).
I hope you'll choose the second solution, asymetrical balance and more realistic choice IMO (+ I like the ironsight LMG :smile:).

Good job with the kits, can't wait for the Ironsight officer on forest maps and 1 medic max/squad is defintily a must have for realism sake and a good anti-revive spam feature. :thumbsup:

Sadist_Cain
2009-04-28, 17:19
3 or 4 medics is even safer. In fact 6 is better.

Nice to see something done with the medic system.:smile:

Exactly!

We've all died again...

Shall I spawn as medic?

Yes everyone spawn as medic

How about we try changing tactics and staying alive?

NO! MORE MEDICS!!!!

and AR as spawn kit, YAY! :D Medic, AR, L-AT = SEX

LeChuckle
2009-04-28, 17:36
Will Russians/CMO/Chineses get the x4 ironsight zoom thingy on their LMG or did you guys finally decided to let the ironsighted gun the way they are (x1 zoom).
I hope you'll choose the second solution, asymetrical balance and more realistic choice IMO (+ I like the ironsight LMG :smile:).

Good job with the kits, can't wait for the Ironsight officer on forest maps and 1 medic max/squad is defintily a must have for realism sake and a good anti-revive spam feature. :thumbsup:


i agree on no zoom on the ironsights

CyrusPI
2009-04-28, 17:39
Those L85s look different, and so compact. Maybe it's because I play on a widescreen monitor. :p Everything looks good.

However, I wonder if the PR team have changed anything else to avoid bothersome bugs. With the LMG kit now part of the spawn screen, a bug highlighted by the community and mentioned in the .856 bug list, it may be possible for a full squad of AR kits.

"- when critically wounded, if your kit expires (the one near your body) you can select any kit from the spawn screen and if a medic revives you, you will come back with that kit."-R-Dev fuzzhead

Since the team is aware of this bug, I trust they have taken steps to prevent this kind of thing from happening. ;) Adding the LMG to the spawn screen was the last thing I'd imagine. I hope people can't abuse this new addition in a way the team hasn't foreseen. We'll see when it's released, of course. :)

Thanks for the news. :)

hx.bjoffe
2009-04-28, 17:51
Great change!

supahpingi
2009-04-28, 17:59
Err, no, it's going to be in 0.86?

whatever,lest just call it "the next version"

Zrix
2009-04-28, 18:07
Awesome, love it!

Axel
2009-04-28, 18:20
Yeah, good stuff!

DeltaFart
2009-04-28, 18:52
I'm curious about the unlimited AR kit also, though I think this is awesome! SHame the Grenadier didnt make it but whatever this is an improvement over the current set up

hiberNative
2009-04-28, 18:58
i appreciate the medic limitation, but i'd also like headshots that kill instead of wound.

JeffCole
2009-04-28, 19:14
About the medic limitation: is this also going to be in effect for the Insurgent Civilians so that they are limited to 1 per sqd?

Simmage
2009-04-28, 19:15
Yay for good changes!

Charity Case
2009-04-28, 19:24
Looking good DB :D.

On a somewhat unrelated note, will we ever see a non-para version of the SAW?

badmojo420
2009-04-28, 19:37
Looking good. Nice changes.

Will the insurgent cell leader get another weapon option as well?

hiberNative
2009-04-28, 19:40
when speaking about collaborators, i'd like the same limitations as heavy anti-tank, with some tweaks.

collaborator (team limited)
- only 5 per team
- one per squad (consisting of at least 3 members)
- same respawn time as normal soldiers.

like 1 collaborators at each cache (lets say 2 caches are revealed) healing soldiers with special kits, and the other 3 out in the field with their squads.

Awesome_Aid_Adam
2009-04-28, 19:44
i always play medic for my squad and i do agree that 2 medic on a squad is better than just one. i usually stay back alittle from the squad so if someone gets shot i wont be the first to die and when everyone dies except for me, it is really hard to revive all of them and heal all of them when i am the only one to heal all of them. plus if i die then someone has to take my kit to revive me. somtime i have to heal 3 people and it takes awhile so a second medic is always helpful to get everyone back to full health and carry on with the objective.

Damian|PL
2009-04-28, 19:51
PKM with scoup(in RUS), awesome. I think only one medic in SQ can give uss more realism.

jbgeezer
2009-04-28, 20:28
One word: GREAT!

Lt Mic
2009-04-28, 20:28
ReaperMAC;1006507']Yes, cause you've OBVIOUSLY have tried out the new Auto-Rifleman haven't you? :roll:


:P thats top secret :P
i can't tell you that i might have seen one of them so i can't say it in public ,can I?

Warpig-
2009-04-28, 20:31
i appreciate the medic limitation, but i'd also like headshots that kill instead of wound.

What he said, I'd like to see lethal headshots again.

But overall, I think these changes are perfect. No more screwing around running to get an AR kit when realistically you'd have one in your squad anyway, not to mention the AR kit might actually be useful now given that it should accurately depict it's useful area range. And thank god for 1 medic per squad, zombie squads get more than annoying.

Vege
2009-04-28, 20:39
Will there be weapon alternatives for Talibans/Insurgents SL:s?

waldo_ii
2009-04-28, 20:40
I love you DB.

McBumLuv
2009-04-28, 20:51
Yes, thank you Jaymz :D

I wonder if my pm was completely coincidental, but I think I was probably the most spoken when it came to the medic limiting :P I REALLY didn't want it to become like the AR kit, where it's near necessary for a squad's efficiency, but often barely used.

Also, glad to see the AR kit being spawnable, too, as well as the scopes.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9079/sealofapproval.png

HughJass
2009-04-28, 21:14
not bad, but I wish there was a better way to select between scope/ironsights. And a limited AT rifleman should be up there IMO

nonetheless this is pretty good.

[uBp]Irish
2009-04-28, 21:53
Wheres the dev post talking about how AR's are going to have Ironsights, and Scope, with undeployed having the ironsights, and deployed being the scope, but with somewhat the same deviation/recoil making crouching+undeployed work for CQB

CyrusPI
2009-04-28, 21:59
Irish;1006946']Wheres the dev post talking about how AR's are going to have Ironsights, and Scope, with undeployed having the ironsights, and deployed being the scope, but with somewhat the same deviation/recoil making crouching+undeployed work for CQB
Right here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility.html#post991000

2nd Dev post related: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility-2.html#post991912

Con post elaborating on who gets what: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility-3.html#post1004494

[uBp]Irish
2009-04-28, 22:23
that be the one.

Howitzer
2009-04-28, 22:25
Thanks DEVs !!!

Ill have to edit my Sig :D

-=TB=-Tobakfromcuba
2009-04-28, 22:28
i like the change, good work on observing and evaluating the current gameplay on the servers. thats the right answer!

GreedoNeverShot
2009-04-28, 23:05
Great...... more limited kits. Eventually there will be some many limits and restrictions the game won't be flexible or playable at all.

Instead of changing the medic, make headshots kill again. Don't limit one medic per squad. How am I supposed to have 2 independent fireteams? More and more and more limits. The maps get better, there is more content, there are more factions, but the gameplay gets more restricted.

JDMT
2009-04-28, 23:05
Thanks DEVs !!!

Ill have to edit my Sig :D

I agree, Grenadier should be more available. Most of the time, they have an M203 on their M16/M4, so I think it should be just like the LMG.

hiberNative
2009-04-28, 23:06
Instead of changing the medic, make headshots kill again.
i would like my marksmanship to pay off, too.

Rudd
2009-04-28, 23:13
Well...tbh...1 medic in the squad will result in many situations where a squad isn't getting back up <- which is fine since it promoves conservative tactics.

So the headshot thing won't really matter anymore.

=(DK)=stoffen_tacticalsup
2009-04-28, 23:24
If you need two medics in the squad youre doing something wrong.

Gaven
2009-04-28, 23:27
No more medic/sniper teams? Guess we'll have to start joining squads and leaving with the medic kit.

McBumLuv
2009-04-28, 23:32
Well, personally I'd prefer it where headshots always kill, but body shots have a small % chance of killing (up to 33% on armoured soldiers), a higher % chance to wound a soldier (IE, cue falling to the ground waiting for a medic), and a small chance of being able to get hit and stay standing. Of course, the chances would be different on a per caliber basis, but you get the point.

I think (read: hope) the medic system is changed as well, but that'll be for another thread or w/e.

TheParadoX
2009-04-28, 23:54
Very nice addition, devs. I love how you post these news and so many guys who obviously have not tested it yet are already suggesting changes. Must be annoying, but I guess you are getting used to it ^^

I just hope that this solution to the medic problem (1 medic per squad) will not lead to many 3 man squads. Lets wait and see !

AgentMongoose
2009-04-28, 23:58
I don't like the Idea of having to have 3 men in a squad to get a medic kit.

M.Warren
2009-04-29, 00:36
These are some interesting changes.

The problem with the insecurity of having one Medic comes from the issue of a particular mindset. I'm under the impression that most players who act as Medics consider themselves to be Rifleman with a First Aid kit, which is the major problem. If a player decides to use a Medic kit he/she needs to be prepared to play the role of a EMT/Doctor equipped a rifle for personal defense only.

What I'm trying to explain is that there are 5 other men in your squad that can engage targets. If a player decides to volunteer to be a Medic, it's your job to avoid combat and concentrate on healing your squad members and reviving them. You should also be frequently checking your map interface if squads nearby need revival or medical assistance as well.

Simply put, if you're a Medic and you're on point (ahead of your squad) and/or amongst the other rifleman you're doing something wrong. You should be at the rear of the squad and beside the officer (as the officer should also be behind everyone else) anyway. Anything other than that you're risking your own life and the life of your fellow soldiers because you're useless when you're dead.

As a Medic you need to take up the mindset as being subtle and an escape artist. That means you need to hide and take cover when a firefight breaks out. Not to run around the place looking for an enemy to shoot. The sooner you take the role of being both passive and defensive and also undertaking the aspects of longevity and survivability in mind, you'll prosper well as a Medic.

Besides, it makes perfect sense that if you're playing a Medic and 3 or more of your squad members are down, it should be a complete nightmare. Truth is, your squad just got whooped. The idea is to emphasize teamwork, skill and to be attentive to detail. Spawning with more Medics to make up for recklessness is pretty lame.

The fact of the matter is that there is an implied contract (which most players are completely unaware of) that as soon as you pick up a Medic kit, you have sacrificed your personal intent on being offensive. You have instead volunteered your services to act as a supporting role for your team. It just so happens that it isn't an easy role and it is slightly boring at times. Playing a Medic properly will test your ability to remain focused on the task at hand and the strength of your self-control. If you don't have these traits then being a Medic isn't for you and you'll be met with frustration and disappointment.

__________________

How am I supposed to have 2 independent fireteams?

I can understand why some people may want two Medics for fireteam purposes. However, I feel that the only way to truly have an effective fire team established is when Squads can have up to 8 people. And to the best of my knowledge a real squad consists of 8 people as opposed to BF2's standard 6 players.

If you really want to set up a fire team I suggest getting together with another squad on your team. Mumble, Teamspeak and Ventrilo is an interesting way to do this. I can speak from personal experience when I had played as the U.S.M.C. with another squad on Korengal Valley. It was pretty awesome and we were practically unstoppable.

I admire your effort to teamwork and get public players to work effectively in a fireteam. But I feel that the hardcoded issues we have to deal with are a major problem and inhibit organized play as it should be. A fireteam consisting of 3 and 3 soldiers is very small. If we could have 4 and 4 it would make a significant difference.

__________________

I love the Give Up / Call Medic option that's been attached to the spawn interface. I didn't think the option to right click on would work on anything outside of the Comm Rose interface. Good news indeed.

As for the new spawn screen kit selection. My only gripe (thanks to my O.C.D. tendencies) is that I feel it should be listed as:

Officer (Optics) - Limited
Officer (Ironsights) - Limited
Rifleman (Optics)
Rifleman (Ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist
Automatic Rifleman - Limited
Combat Medic - Limited

ReaperMAC
2009-04-29, 00:51
As for the new spawn screen kit selection. My only gripe (thanks to my O.C.D. tendencies) is that I feel it should be listed as:

Officer (Optics) - Limited
Officer (Ironsights) - Limited
Rifleman (Optics)
Rifleman (Ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist
Automatic Rifleman - Limited
Combat Medic - Limited

This I actually agree with.

Snazz
2009-04-29, 00:52
I often play as a medic and I like the changes, a squad should only need 1 medic.

I also really like how the SAW has been given a scope, I can't get much use out of the current iron sights TBH.

As for the ongoing head-shot-kill debate, the decision already been explained pretty well by the devs. If you really want to down an enemy squad shoot their medic first.

BTW, the mention of a 0.86 sounds interesting, I hope to see an announcement soon if it's not just another closed test build.

PhantomCCI
2009-04-29, 01:17
Awesome to have none optic officer kits, no more being forced to fight CQB with an ACOG sight.

Onil
2009-04-29, 01:27
Jaymz;1006582']Just so everyone is aware, that's an ELCAN on the M249. It's the only MG optic that will be ready for 0.86 but they are planned for almost every faction (we'll change it to a SUSAT for the Brits in time).

Can we please have the Iron Sights Variant of the Automatic Rifleman as well?

I mean you are adding that option to the Officer, might as well do it with the MG since we don't have the option to remove the optics ourselves when the type of terrain demands it.

Snazz
2009-04-29, 01:50
Can we please have the Iron Sights Variant of the Automatic Rifleman as well?

I mean you are adding that option to the Officer, might as well do it with the MG since we don't have the option to remove the optics ourselves when the type of terrain demands it.

Read:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility.html#post991000

00SoldierofFortune00
2009-04-29, 03:12
I like the changes so far, but I agree, 1 medic is not enough. If you are only going to have 1 medic, then you might as well make headshots kill because I can see 5 people crowding around the 1 medic right now. Games will also be much shorter since medics won't be able to revive and heal as much, meaning more ticket loss.

I always preferred to have 2 medics per squad so 1 medic could work with half of the squad, and the other medic with the other half. That way, fireteams were semi-possible. Now, it will be even more impossible to split up since you won't have a medic that can be with both fireteams at the sametime.

Also, why not have the medic have the option of ironsights and scopes? On wide open and long range maps like Kashan, the medic can't really fight at all, even when there is no one to medic. I mean, everyone always tells someone in the squad to go medic (except themselves), but not everyone wants to medic at every second of the game, they want to fight too. And without a scope on certain maps, this makes them even more of the squad "b*tch" I guess you could say. Basically, the guy who is always there to provide your the squad, but never for his own needs. Players aren't hardcoded remember? And this game is still about fun remember?


And to the people saying 1 medic is fine, remember that this game is still based on the BF2 engine. No matter what you do to it, this engine was never meant for realistic play, hence why it is still so easy to die in this game, even if you are being "conservative." Just saying "be more careful" or "approach carefully" means nothing because half the time you do, but get killed because of lag, insta-proning, or lucky shots.

Pvt. Green
2009-04-29, 03:16
Will these limited kits be receiving the -10 point penalty for dying with them?

NYgurkha
2009-04-29, 03:21
officer kit with iron sight is gonna be a godsend :)

ChiefRyza
2009-04-29, 03:26
I love the medic change. I think it will help keep squads together even more and remove the medic spam that has been rampant ever since the headshots got removed. Good job DEV's and thankyou!

I'm assuming the people want lots of medics around still are the people who forgot what it was to be careful about how you go about fighting in PR..... This should bring us back to the good old days where people didn't rely on medics but rather utilized them. If you want medic spam, Vanilla's door is always open. Good riddance to it!

Snazz
2009-04-29, 04:38
it is still so easy to die in this game, even if you are being "conservative." Just saying "be more careful" or "approach carefully" means nothing because half the time you do, but get killed because of lag, insta-proning, or lucky shots.

If you get killed because of some bug/lag/exploit/fluke then bad luck, playing cautiously will still improve your chances of survival.

It makes sense for PR, a lot of the design decisions have been about encouraging players to play more tactically and carefully.

Having less medics around won't make it less fun for me, when I'm a medic I already focus on healing and reviving my squad more then fighting. If someone goes medic just so they can heal themselves and kill more people then they're not really playing the mod how it was intended.

If you find supportive/specialized roles boring just don't play them, stick to rifleman and killing people. Your squad/team will want people in those roles as everyone benefits and people who do enjoy them will fill the positions.

Instead of splitting up your squad into 2 fire teams, you can work with another infantry squad using mumble. I know that's easier said then done but if you really want it you'll organize it.

rangedReCon
2009-04-29, 05:04
Good update, DB you are a god among mere men!

ReadMenace
2009-04-29, 05:12
7 spawnable kits = 7 spawnable player model/skin variations = Jazz in my pants!

-REad

single.shot (nor)
2009-04-29, 06:31
Jazz, as in music?!

well, anyhow, i also think it should be organized as this:

Officer (Optics) - Limited
Officer (Ironsights) - Limited
Rifleman (Optics)
Rifleman (Ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist
Automatic Rifleman - Limited
Combat Medic - Limited
originally posted by M.warren

Mary.au
2009-04-29, 06:36
elite! cant wait for said patch!!

HeXeY
2009-04-29, 07:00
Excellent.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ACmnm5DjM1w/SbmQ5wviMEI/AAAAAAAABcg/V7j8j_6De6s/s400/MrBurns.gif

fubar++
2009-04-29, 08:24
1. Good to see medic limited 1 for squad. It's definitely more realistic as usually there isn't a single medic in a squad level (don't know about every faction, anyone got better info about US and Brits for instance?), but in-game you can't transport critically wounded so it's good compromise. You could still give an extra bandage for everyone, because being the only medic in the squad can quite stressful sometimes.

2. There could be both scoped and iron sight version of AR. To clear up the spawn menu a little bit Officer, Rifleman and AR could have same kind of option as it is with Vanilla global unlocks, that small switch in upper right corner.

Sancha_RUS
2009-04-29, 08:27
Instead of changing the medic, make headshots kill again. Don't limit one medic per squad.

i agree with him

fubar++
2009-04-29, 08:41
Also, forgot to mention, and this is slightly OT, but you could introduce some kind protection for medics (according to Geneva Convention), like getting negative score and a warning message if you kill a medic. You could still kill a medic, as it had happen a lot IRL and even have sometimes been unofficially encouraged, but you would get an "official" punishment for so doing, to compensate medics being limited.

Bigsmoke101
2009-04-29, 08:57
i think the 1 medic per squad is a perfect change. until outright kills are brought back in game there is no need for more medics why do i say this ? i've killed enemy squads multiple times because they've had more then 1 medic in there squad and that to me is a tad vanillaish and lame.

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-29, 09:07
You should also be frequently checking your map interface if squads nearby need revival or medical assistance as well.

On public no one would do that. They just heal/revie their squad mates and that´s it! Cause they dont know what real teamwork is.

Now all say "Oh my god, awesome! Finally 1 medic per sqaud!" And after 1 or 2 months of playing most of them wine "Give us 2 medics back!"

My position is and will be for the future: a limit of 2 medics is a must!:!:

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-29, 09:14
EDIT:

You all can call me bulllish or like we germans say "ein Sturkopf". Than just look at my location. That`s what we "Badner" all are!8-)

AnRK
2009-04-29, 11:02
Nice to seethe MG up there as a limited kit as last, good to see medics been limited too.

How come you guys moved the officer kits to the bottom of the menu though? That's gonna cause a bit of a pain in the arse for people who are used to it being at the top, not that it's not obvious it's moved just people are gonna end up going in as rifleman specialists due to false of habit.

hall0
2009-04-29, 11:47
Well I will miss my 2 medics in a squad. But I agree a squad complette out of medics is ridiculous.

But.
You get killed so many squads multiple times because headshots dont kill anymore not just because there are so many medics arround. One medic couldn´t handle the job alone effective because instead of dying the squad could be allways brought pack.
If the total kill headshot would brought back the medics will not have to do so much work and the number will be decreased naturally.

=WFL= Sgt Bilko
2009-04-29, 12:20
Does this mean that Medic kit will be requestable from support crate, like the officer kit?

Also the medic side is only half of the problem, pls add headshot kills again!
The main reason that interest in running medics went skyhigh (from being one of the most neglected ones), is that all soldiers downed by light weapons are revivable for quit some time.

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-29, 12:28
But I agree a squad complette out of medics is ridiculous.


Why all takling about a squad full of medics? Just increase the limit to 2.

luckyhendrix
2009-04-29, 12:39
no, one medic is perfect. If the medic is good he should never put himself in danger and it would force squad to fallback when there's too many wounded rather than asking the medic to heal 5 people at the same moment what he can't do and shouldn't do.

Priby
2009-04-29, 12:42
Im not quite sure about the AR but you guys surely thought it trough.
Overall a nice change, especially the medic limit.

Rico
2009-04-29, 12:45
Just wondering why the use of the unlock system hasn't been used to choose between the scoped/unscoped variants? It would free up kit selection slots potentially for other kits (Grenadier) and look tidier too. I think EoD did something similiar?

Rudd
2009-04-29, 12:51
Just wondering why the use of the unlock system hasn't been used to choose between the scoped/unscoped variants? It would free up kit selection slots potentially for other kits (Grenadier) and look tidier too. I think EoD did something similiar?

Indeed, the subject has been brought up multiple times.

I suspect something to do with the t rose request system being incompatible or something?

dbzao
2009-04-29, 12:54
We didn't have time to work on the unlock system. We will try for the next version.

Rico
2009-04-29, 12:57
One concern about the SAW spawnable kit that just sprang to mind. Take an insurgency map for example, say the SAW gunner is killed and the enemy steals his kit (as seen ALL the time with any kit). Now, this squad member who just died would normally have to spawn on the RP, now no longer equipped with this powerful weapon. However, now he can spawn straight back into the fight with his trusty SAW again, again potentially to be stolen once more.

I foresee a Taliban team equpped with many 4x scoped SAW's because its no longer limited and too plentiful, possibly tipping the balance. The argument against of course is players should be more careful, not spawn in if too dangerous yada yada. Players are hardcoded and do stupid things.

I'm not saying I don't like the change, in fact I really like the fact that a squad can always have a SAW gunner. Just thought I'd point out a potential game play change that could tip the balance slightly.

Lt Mic
2009-04-29, 13:28
One concern about the SAW spawnable kit that just sprang to mind. Take an insurgency map for example, say the SAW gunner is killed and the enemy steals his kit (as seen ALL the time with any kit). Now, this squad member who just died would normally have to spawn on the RP, now no longer equipped with this powerful weapon. However, now he can spawn straight back into the fight with his trusty SAW again, again potentially to be stolen once more.

I foresee a Taliban team equpped with many 4x scoped SAW's because its no longer limited and too plentiful, possibly tipping the balance. The argument against of course is players should be more careful, not spawn in if too dangerous yada yada. Players are hardcoded and do stupid things.

I'm not saying I don't like the change, in fact I really like the fact that a squad can always have a SAW gunner. Just thought I'd point out a potential game play change that could tip the balance slightly.
Agreed 100%

Mic's version of limiting kits:
Normal kits (unlimited)
Rifleman (optics and ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist

Infantry kits (squad limited)
Officer (optics and ironsights)
1xMedic
Automatic Rifleman (ironsights)

Infantry kits (Requestable from crates; squad and team limited)
3-4xAutomatic Rifleman (optics)
(^one free slot i t rose or you want comando back? :twisted:)
Marksman
Rifleman AT
Grenadier

and you can have only one AR ironsights or optics in one sq
i don't say that change is BAD but i think that my version is more balanced
we now can see M249 optics(Brits USA) so other(PLA, MEC ect.) might not have optics
or need new models/versions of AR

We didn't have time to work on the unlock system. We will try for the next version. IRONY? or TRUTH?:confused:

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-29, 13:35
no, one medic is perfect. If the medic is good he should never put himself in danger and it would force squad to fallback when there's too many wounded rather than asking the medic to heal 5 people at the same moment what he can't do and shouldn't do.

Yeah of cousre... medic never should himself in danger. Haha!

Say that on Fallujah or Al Basrah where the insurgent run like headless chicken over the map and try to kill someone. They dont look at there stats. Just want to kill something. And if the got a hit and die a long bloody dead cause no one plays collaba...etc and the squadleader are cheap and dont share their field dressing they try to use their remaining time to kill someone at all costs. And you as a medic should never himself and danger...

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-29, 13:39
Quote:
We didn't have time to work on the unlock system. We will try for the next version.
IRONY? or TRUTH?

I think truth. These changes are for 0.86. I think 0.86 is just a fix for the upcoming 1.5 Battlefield Patch to guarantee PR works with the new patch.

cyberzomby
2009-04-29, 13:59
Yea Rico has a good point there! But I guess it should be the squad's own problem if they let there kits be stolen so much. If they retreat so fast or dont pin the fallen comrades positions than its there own fault that the kits fell in to enemy hands.

00SoldierofFortune00
2009-04-29, 15:11
If you get killed because of some bug/lag/exploit/fluke then bad luck, playing cautiously will still improve your chances of survival.

It makes sense for PR, a lot of the design decisions have been about encouraging players to play more tactically and carefully.

Having less medics around won't make it less fun for me, when I'm a medic I already focus on healing and reviving my squad more then fighting. If someone goes medic just so they can heal themselves and kill more people then they're not really playing the mod how it was intended.

You don't understand. No matter how many design decisions you do, this mod is still using an engine that was not made for realistic play, so many things you say are "badluck" happen more often than they should. Being "insta-proned" is not badluck, it is standard. You can't lean, so when you look around a corner and trying to be "tactical", you could easily be shot. Point is, you can be as safe and tactical as possible in this game, but there are still too many ways to die as infantry and too many variables to being killed. I mean, you can trip or 2 feet down a staircase and need healing. 2 FEET LOL!!!!!!

Now that lone medic will have to worry about healing himself most of the time, then healing every single one of his squadmembers everytime they trip or get slightly wounded. At least with 2 medics, solved that problem.

If you find supportive/specialized roles boring just don't play them, stick to rifleman and killing people. Your squad/team will want people in those roles as everyone benefits and people who do enjoy them will fill the positions.

Yea, and when no one goes medic, you will know why. Medic is more of a burden and less furfilling lately. I get people who want to play medic, but rarely do they want to play medic for more than 1 round. Medic should be something furfilling to play, not a burden and with only 1 medic per squad, I feel this will make it even worse.

Instead of splitting up your squad into 2 fire teams, you can work with another infantry squad using mumble. I know that's easier said then done but if you really want it you'll organize it.

That definately is easier said than done. Not every server has mumble yet either. That is tournament play, not average pub play.

jimbosmith
2009-04-29, 15:46
i think increasing the medic to 2 per squad would be fine, but maybe have it where you need 4 or more people in the squad

i can see 1 medic working for organised play, but pubbing may fail. Due to some squads splitting up or having a medic who cant do anything

Onil
2009-04-29, 15:47
The Medic and the Automatic Rifleman kits are limited to 1 per squad with at least 3 members and unlimited numbers per team. So you can always have a medic and a SAW gunner in your squad no matter what the team is doing.

I just don't get why there would be unlimited numbers per team... If you're limiting 1 per Squad and there is a limit of 9 squads per team then why not have a limit of 9 kits per team? Or do you want to leave the option for the rejoin trick to have squads full of medics or MG's ?

Please add team limitation.

T.Nightingale
2009-04-29, 15:51
M.Warren SAID IT PERFECTLY AND IT SHOULD BE THE OFFICIAL INTRO TO THE GUIDE TO MEDIC.

But again doesn't help with the noobs who dont read guides and tuts.

Threedroogs
2009-04-29, 17:19
Why all takling about a squad full of medics? Just increase the limit to 2.

people dont play medic the way they should. i see medics leading the charge into enemy territory all the time, which is poor strategy. if the medic stays back with the SL, one is enough. for me, playing a medic as a normal rifleman wouldnt be fun at all. you're outgunned and overpowered. i have fun as medic when i play a dedicated medic basically only getting kills if the SL's position is overrun by enemies (or when clearing the area to revive someone). as medic, i play close range squad defense only with my primary mission keeping the other 5 guys engaging the enemy. it's not too much work for one medic.

my squads need one good medic and that is it, 100% of the time. when my squads have more than one medic, we are at a severe disadvantage compared to my normal squad because we are minus one scope, a hook, grenades, a special kit, or ammo.

the reason medic should be limited to one per squad is so only a dedicated medic has the kit. i am tired of seeing rambo medics (or medics who act like front line rifleman). when i get random guys in my squad and they take medic, they RARELY play the kit effectively.

M.Warren
2009-04-29, 17:24
I had not commented previously on the use of the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) as it feels to be a subject that is in a gray area. Just as much as I wish to believe that it will work out, I also have some skepticism. Let's think about whats being changed here:

1. All SAW weapons are to be given a scope (of unknown magnification) to each squad.

2. All SAW weapons will no longer be team limited. Each and every squad is entitled to a maximum of one.

Now, it may not seem too much of a difference, but we've taken two major steps away from the norm in PR. Not only have we changed the rules and guidelines for respawning with a limited kit, but we've also added a scope on top of it before we ever had the chance to test the first change. This also brings up another problem. How will SAW's handle while being used with scopes:

A. Are SAW's going to become the new scoped weapon with laser beam accuracy in full auto mode? A brief burst is already very accurate from ironsights. Adding a scope (assuming it has a magnification of a standard Assault Rifle) ontop of that makes it feel like it's taken a step away from it's primary role of suppression and is now on route to becoming a gun to administer a stream of lead with a high amount of precision.

B. How will the SAW's handle in CQB?

C. Will the SAW's handling in CQB prompt a request to have an option to have them in the Ironsight configuration again?

D. Would the implementation of scopes still be necessary at this point if SAW's had an increased suppression effect radius? As in giving a uniquely larger "suppression effect" for SAW's in particular by increasing it's diameter/radius to a value of 1.5 - 2.5 times the current value of a standard assault rifle? This would truely support the concept of "volume of fire" and suppression as it should.

I personally feel that SAW's should have a scope, but a very unique kind of scope for the role. This scope should have a magnification level between the standard Assault Rifle and the use of Ironsights. You really do not need the amount of magnification and precision offered by a standard Assault Rifle scope in this role.

What a SAW gunner really needs is a scope with a very slight magnification zoom that aids in firing at targets between 200-300 (maybe even up to 400) meters, but also allows for a wider of field of vision. The point of a SAW gunner is to have the ability to administer "sweeping fields of fire" and the "suppression effect" properly. Currently in PR most players do not use the "sweeping fields of fire" tactic, nor do they remotely rely on the "suppression effect" like a SAW gunner should be entitled to. This is because most players are straining to see the target at long ranges and they usually have the appearance of ironsights taking up 40-50% of their screen while aiming. Not good. Not good at all.

Please don't think I'm being harsh on the new idea. I am fully aware on how limited SAW's are and how seldom used they've become in PR. They are dangerous, but a prone and stationary target in BF2 and PR usually spells "dead man" for the player using it. I'd like to see them used more, but not potentially become the next uber-lead-streaming-gun.

I just feel that the role of SAW's are heading in the wrong direction. We're giving them range and accuracy as opposed to supporting the proper use of the suppression effect and the tactic on using sweeping fields of fire effectively.

Skodz
2009-04-29, 17:26
I really don't get why people complain so much, 1 medic/squad really work very good. If you was using more medic, you was doing something wrong in my opinion.

Skodz
2009-04-29, 17:29
About SAW, no big deal really... as a SL, I rarely have the reflex to use a saw gunner in my squad because its not that much useful... They must go prone in order to hit anything and they are the #1 target as soon as ennemies hear them... Having maximum 9 SAW gunner and scoped isn't gonna be a problem in my opinion. This weapon system is overrated.

Threedroogs
2009-04-29, 17:33
About SAW, no big deal really... as a SL, I rarely have the reflex to use a saw gunner in my squad because its not that much useful... They must go prone in order to hit anything and they are the #1 target as soon as ennemies hear them... Having maximum 9 SAW gunner and scoped isn't gonna be a problem in my opinion. This weapon system is overrated.

an LMG in the right hands is one of the most devastating weapons on the battlefield. i am not the best at using that weapon but i play with a few guys who are. ;)

i cant wait for the scoped version...

SocketMan
2009-04-29, 17:35
Glad the right click is a feature,not a bug.Many new about it,many still don't ;)
(wrong priorities while reading).

A good step forward with the 1 medic per squad,but you can still have a 6 man squad
with 2 (divide into 2 squads/fire teams and mumble+ts to run it)

What about the revives? Is there any chance of dying - when someone is shot and falls down? or can still be revived (unless .50 calibre +)

Skodz
2009-04-29, 17:38
SocketMan;1007884']

A good step forward with the 1 medic per squad,but you can still have a 6 man squad
with 2 (divide into 2 squads/fire teams and mumble+ts to run it)


But there can only be a maximum of 9 squad on each team.

Headshot should kill :)

Leeu
2009-04-29, 18:21
crazyasian11;1006408']1 medic will be enough if you work as a squad.

Lets hope the "IED/shotgun/rifle/grenade to the head = infinite revive" bug is fixed along with the new limited medic kits.

[uBp]Irish
2009-04-29, 18:48
if you look a couple pages back, the dev's said that...

In the next update, the Automatic Rifleman kit will be infinitely more useful. Changes will include......

Undeployed

* Deviation improved for CQB


Deployed

* Deviation settle time increased to eight seconds
* Can be fired from all stances
* 4x Zoom to simulate realistic effective range (this zoom will be on ironsights until 4x optics are added to all conventional MG's, which they will be)
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility-2.html#post991000
----

however, i swear i saw a post that said the AR will have both Ironsights (or just not zoomed in/better deviation) and scoped

Undeployed:

Ironsights (possibly ontop of the scope? or just better deviation, so you pretty much switch to undeployed and shoot for the middle of the screen)
Deviation improved for CQB
this makes it better in CQB, since you would just shoot where you think you'd hit.

Deployed:

Scoped (4x zoom)
Fired from all stances
Deviation increased
---------

thus, you have both ironsights and scope for the weapon, with both being used differently. however, like I said, i'm trying to find the post that said it might have both, or just the scope with better deviation.

that's for Lt. Mic/Warren wondering about ironsights/Scopes and the need for either or.

SocketMan
2009-04-29, 19:20
Lets hope the "IED/shotgun/rifle/grenade to the head = infinite revive" bug is fixed along with the new limited medic kits.


It's not a bug it's a "feature":

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/54834-should-head-shots-kill.html

444 people have voted whether they like it or not and 414 (93%) DO NOT :shock::razz:
I have not heard anything that will remove that "feature" so the "bug"/"feature":razz:
will stay, which is somewhat.... surprising.
I think a tank round to the head will still kill,but don't
quote me on that -I have no idea/clue.

Skodz
2009-04-29, 19:32
Wait, deployed will fire from any stance ? Standing up, crouching or prone ? Thats interesting but why using undeployed then ?

fuzzhead
2009-04-29, 19:34
Well Socketman, a chest wound MIGHT AS WELL kill you as well, seeing as how you wont be standing up and fighting after that.... please, lets not get into the headshot debate again, leave that for another thread....

The LMG might become a problem in that they will be more popular, but I think thats okay because atm these are prety undeseriable kits... however I think changes to the RP system would help alot with the large amounts of LMG kits wandering around and getting killed, but I dont think that will be addressed this patch.

LMG undeployed will have a"shouldered" and over the top of the weapon viewpoint, in the future backup ironsites might get modeled but this is the temp placeholder atm.

SocketMan
2009-04-29, 19:37
Correction to my post above:the "infinite" part will be fixed (1 per minute ?)
I recall that's been said in one of the discussion threads.
(edit button -I miss you :grin:)

cfschris
2009-04-29, 23:27
Adding input on the medic deal-

Whenever I squad lead (and I do so alot), I always request a rifleman over a second medic. Why? Because now I have more firepower than I would with two medics. This being said, I'll have less casualties, and the medic won't have to do as much healing. And honestly, the so called "mountain of healing" a medic will have to do as an only medic is BS. BS because it's not a horrible amount, and because that's what they're primary job is. Don't go medic if you don't want to do a little healing.

Arnoldio
2009-04-29, 23:56
Great but only 1 med per sq? 2 is better...

rifleman has more ammo...it does better job keeping enemies away...if you cannot handle everything with one medic, call for evac or fall back and get the thing done

I think its a great idea overall.

JKRMAUI
2009-04-30, 00:43
Fantastic!!

I've always felt the AR kit was under used. It's one of the most important kits for an inf squad. Having it available from spawn is an A++++ move. Having an optic on it is icing on the cake!!

Spot on FANF****INGTASTIC.

DesmoLocke
2009-04-30, 00:51
I like the changes so far, but I agree, 1 medic is not enough. If you are only going to have 1 medic, then you might as well make headshots kill because I can see 5 people crowding around the 1 medic right now. Games will also be much shorter since medics won't be able to revive and heal as much, meaning more ticket loss.

I always preferred to have 2 medics per squad so 1 medic could work with half of the squad, and the other medic with the other half. That way, fireteams were semi-possible. Now, it will be even more impossible to split up since you won't have a medic that can be with both fireteams at the sametime.

Also, why not have the medic have the option of ironsights and scopes? On wide open and long range maps like Kashan, the medic can't really fight at all, even when there is no one to medic. I mean, everyone always tells someone in the squad to go medic (except themselves), but not everyone wants to medic at every second of the game, they want to fight too. And without a scope on certain maps, this makes them even more of the squad "b*tch" I guess you could say. Basically, the guy who is always there to provide your the squad, but never for his own needs. Players aren't hardcoded remember? And this game is still about fun remember?


And to the people saying 1 medic is fine, remember that this game is still based on the BF2 engine. No matter what you do to it, this engine was never meant for realistic play, hence why it is still so easy to die in this game, even if you are being "conservative." Just saying "be more careful" or "approach carefully" means nothing because half the time you do, but get killed because of lag, insta-proning, or lucky shots.

Great...... more limited kits. Eventually there will be some many limits and restrictions the game won't be flexible or playable at all.

Instead of changing the medic, make headshots kill again. Don't limit one medic per squad. How am I supposed to have 2 independent fireteams? More and more and more limits. The maps get better, there is more content, there are more factions, but the gameplay gets more restricted.

I agree wholeheartedly. The days of effective fire teams will pass on by...

Snazz
2009-04-30, 00:52
You don't understand. No matter how many design decisions you do, this mod is still using an engine that was not made for realistic play, so many things you say are "badluck" happen more often than they should.

I got that, I know the BF2 engine is not a simulator and unrealistic events occur.

But it doesn't really change the point that you're more likely to survive using roughly-realistic tactics (regardless of how many medics you've got), as opposed to going 'rambo' because the engine can be exploited.

Being "insta-proned" is not badluck, it is standard.

I think you're exaggerating a little but naturally our experiences differ.

Point is, you can be as safe and tactical as possible in this game, but there are still too many ways to die as infantry and too many variables to being killed. I mean, you can trip or 2 feet down a staircase and need healing. 2 FEET LOL!!!!!!

The battlefield is generally a dangerous place (RL or PR), you can't guarantee survival but you can certainly improve your chances.

BTW falling could be worse, in Vegas 2 you die instantly from falling off the tiniest ledge (yet can take several bullets and keep fighting).

when no one goes medic, you will know why.

That's yet to be seen but I'm not concerned, As I said I already enjoy performing the medical duties which you suggest are unappealing without multiple medics per squad.

Warpig-
2009-04-30, 00:55
I agree. Especially when insurgents use the PKM properly and you have squads with no SAW to supress them while you flank and look for cover

It's criminally under-used. I really do dislike using it, which is a shame because I love to take the section gunner class in most games. But now they've got the zoom It'll be great not squinting to see targets well within rifle range, especially with no antialiazing on the BF2 engine, the screen tearing is shocking.

JKRMAUI
2009-04-30, 01:31
Criminally under used. I like that, most people have no idea how useful it is until they get some one who knows how to use it. It's night and day. Having your saw gunner cover a street, or watching a building while you move up. It's just...night and day.


As for the medics, from personal experience in playing PR. My PERSONAL suggestion would be two medics per squad. I want to say just have one and be more careful, but that's just not a real option in most situations. Two medics gives the squad a real fighting chance, and keeps down on medic spamming enough to make it balanced. That's just my opinion, and if I was in a position to make the change that's exactly what I'd do. Two medics per squad.

Also I really like the idea of having optics for medics.

Here's a thought, instead of having multiple classes, can we just alternate weapons within the same kit? Last I checked EOD had that. So I'm sure it can be done with PR, and it makes more sense than having every kit doubled up with an Iron version or Optic version. Just have one kit that you can click that little arrow for an optic or Iron load out/Aimpoint or Acog.

00SoldierofFortune00
2009-04-30, 02:05
I got that, I know the BF2 engine is not a simulator and unrealistic events occur.

But it doesn't really change the point that you're more likely to survive using roughly-realistic tactics (regardless of how many medics you've got), as opposed to going 'rambo' because the engine can be exploited.

I know and I never suggested going rambo. My point is, this game is still about fun and having one medic take the burden of the usual two is not going to be a good thing for people wanting to go medic IMO. Since headshots don't kill anymore, that one medic is going to be reviving every other second rather than fighting (when he can) because someone will almost always be wounded or critically injured (due to the massive amount of ways to hurt yourself ingame).


I think you're exaggerating a little but naturally our experiences differ.

How am I exaggerating? It is a well known fact that insta-proning is still possible in this game and widely used. Hell, I even use it sometimes just because I am so used to it happening to me.


The battlefield is generally a dangerous place (RL or PR), you can't guarantee survival but you can certainly improve your chances.

BTW falling could be worse, in Vegas 2 you die instantly from falling off the tiniest ledge (yet can take several bullets and keep fighting).

In real life, you can't be shot in an instant by an insta-proning enemy though. And this isn't Rambo Six. That series went from being semi-realistic to arcadey long time ago IMO.

That's yet to be seen but I'm not concerned, As I said I already enjoy performing the medical duties which you suggest are unappealing without multiple medics per squad.

No, I said it will be unappealing once there is only 1 medic in the squad to pick up the duties of the second medic. I don't see how you could NOT see this as a bad thing. The medic already has a heavy burden and this will make it even worse. I would much rather headshots kill again if we are only going to be limited to 1 medic.



Criminally under used. I like that, most people have no idea how useful it is until they get some one who knows how to use it. It's night and day. Having your saw gunner cover a street, or watching a building while you move up. It's just...night and day.

Most people don't know how to use it cus they can't get their hands on it most of the time.

But in real life, an automatic rifleman makes up the core of a fireteam, so this change is a nice and realistic one.

Snazz
2009-04-30, 02:18
medical duties which you suggest are unappealing without multiple medics per squad.
No, I said it will be unappealing once there is only 1 medic in the squad to pick up the duties of the second medic.

That's exactly the same thing just worded differently.

[QUOTE=00SoldierofFortune00;1008417]I don't see how you could NOT see this as a bad thing. The medic already has a heavy burden and this will make it even worse.

Because I don't find the medical role a burden, I think it's very beneficial teamwork element.

I would much rather headshots kill again if we are only going to be limited to 1 medic.

TBH I don't personally care about whether head shots kill instantly or critically wound, either way the guys not shooting back anymore. Sure a medic can just revive him as it is, but that's why you try and kill the medic (more viable now that there's only 1 per squad).

I trust the dev's decision and if it turns out to be as detrimental to game play as you imply I expect they'll revise it in the next patch.

JKRMAUI
2009-04-30, 02:25
True, it's not like we are dealing with Dice here. Giving us the AR kit and limited the medic might just bring PR inf tactics to a point of pure win and awesome. We just have to see how things play out. I trust that the change will change up ASS at least a bit. I am trying to grasp how INS will play out, and I'm seeing good things. Having support gunners available, and being a more effective kit....fire superiority goes to blufor...which is how it is in RL....now this helps keep the ins at arms reach, which gives the squad a much batter chance to not get over run and have to claw their way through a CQB engagement.

CodeRedFox
2009-04-30, 02:38
Before tempers get to high lets give the idea a chance. Its going through testing so we will see how it turns out. This is only a patch to .85 so if it doesn't work 100% it can be changed.

But I think we can all agree its a step overall (not talking numbers) in the right direction. We have some new ideas coming down the line which will allow quicker turn around for patches instead of a 5+ month wait as well.

DesmoLocke
2009-04-30, 03:51
CodeRedFox;1008440']We have some new ideas coming down the line which will allow quicker turn around for patches instead of a 5+ month wait as well.

Now that is GREAT news! And something everyone can agree on as simply awesome!

CodeRedFox
2009-04-30, 04:02
Idea is the key word ;-)

DNAz5646
2009-04-30, 06:06
I know and I never suggested going rambo. My point is, this game is still about fun and having one medic take the burden of the usual two is not going to be a good thing for people wanting to go medic IMO. Since headshots don't kill anymore, that one medic is going to be reviving every other second rather than fighting (when he can) because someone will almost always be wounded or critically injured (due to the massive amount of ways to hurt yourself ingame).

what do you mean for a medic its healing first fighting second if one medic limit will make it that then thats PERFECT!

Alex6714
2009-04-30, 08:29
About fireteams, why slip up your squad when the second fireteam can be another squad. There is teamwork for you. And if you really want fireteams and 2 medics, you just make 2 squads of 3 and there you go. 2 Rallies aswell.....

arthuro12
2009-04-30, 08:45
always wanted an Elcan on the SAW..

if i was like.. a whore.. damn.. round would be on me xD

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-04-30, 10:08
lets give the idea a chance

Like the 0.8 release?:mrgreen:

ChiefRyza
2009-04-30, 10:34
Hey, I loved 0.8. At least people stuck together and there was alot more teamwork than there is now. I always think of 0.85 as a step towards vanilla, hopefully that can change with the new patch.

And hey... Anything that means I don't have to look through a microscopic hole to aim the LMG's is fine by me :P

AnRK
2009-04-30, 11:06
About fireteams, why slip up your squad when the second fireteam can be another squad. There is teamwork for you. And if you really want fireteams and 2 medics, you just make 2 squads of 3 and there you go. 2 Rallies aswell.....

No DEV has chimed in about it but I'm sure they're aware of the potential for that kinda abuse. I imagine these limitations will be based on squad/team sizes aswell not just having 1 medic/mg per squad, I doubt you can get 9 MGs a side when you have 22 people in a server for example.

cfschris
2009-04-30, 11:08
Forgive me for going offtopic, but headshots do not instakill anymore?!?! This is news to me, and more important than any class changes/new weapons. Screw the new kits, fix this!!!

Seriously, that's just ridiculous. This is project reality, I expect that when I put a bullet through someones brain, they're out for the count. Aka, good n' dead.

Alex6714
2009-04-30, 11:09
No DEV has chimed in about it but I'm sure they're aware of the potential for that kinda abuse. I imagine these limitations will be based on squad/team sizes aswell not just having 1 medic/mg per squad, I doubt you can get 9 MGs a side when you have 22 people in a server for example.

Yeah but I mean if one medic kit is always available per squad, and people are so obsessed with fireteams then there would be more 3 man squads, because with mumble it would be more effective to slip up squads to get that extra medic kit and rallypoint.


But I was more talking about people not going off in their own world with their own squad, rather keeping together and getting help from another squad, instead of just splitting into 2 fireteams to assault themselves.

Drav
2009-04-30, 11:35
Heheh I always find these threads hilarious. On one hand you have people raging, bring back headshots, on the other hand we have people screaming, more medics!!

I think this will be a good change that solves both problems. If you dont want to die, dont get shot. 0.85 allowed people to get shot far to much and get away with it. In 0.86, if you are shot and bleeding you are a big burden on your squad, and possibly in deep trouble. As it should be.

In previous versions we'd be lucky if a squad had a medic at all. I think the one per squad limit is fair.

Rudd
2009-04-30, 11:42
Maybe I'll be running a medevac squad from now on! :D lololo, the possibilities are endless

[MPN]Slouch2
2009-04-30, 12:03
Drav;1008687']Heheh I always find these threads hilarious. On one hand you have people raging, bring back headshots, on the other hand we have people screaming, more medics!!

I think this will be a good change that solves both problems. If you dont want to die, dont get shot. 0.85 allowed people to get shot far to much and get away with it. In 0.86, if you are shot and bleeding you are a big burden on your squad, and possibly in deep trouble. As it should be.

In previous versions we'd be lucky if a squad had a medic at all. I think the one per squad limit is fair.

+1. It is more realistic after all, having one medic per squad and this is Project Reality...

Hell, most of the time you would be lucky to have 2 medics in a platoon!

M.Warren
2009-04-30, 12:11
Drav;1008687']Heheh I always find these threads hilarious. On one hand you have people raging, bring back headshots, on the other hand we have people screaming, more medics!!

Medics will always be based pretty much on a players skill and mindset. Tools that are available to Medics such as Epipens and Smoke Grenades that have had their quantity's increased, only further augment it's use to an acceptable level.

My main concern remains on the use of the SAW in this new patch. I personally don't mind SAW's being available as they are in the upcoming update. However what does bring me concern is how SAW's have always operated.

<Note: If you wish to read the original post that elaborates further upon the topic of SAW's (Squad Automatic Weapons). Click here (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-dev-journal/58623-hud-limited-kits-spawn-menu-13.html#post1007861).>

I still feel SAW's should have 1.5 - 2.5 times the suppression diameter/radius as a normal assault rifle. This will aid a player who is forced into a prone and stationary position in such a way that he can still manage to keep the enemy players heads down. Thus, the player can rely on the suppression effect to keep his enemies at bay, without becoming a lead magnet himself. Adding a Elcan scope is nice, but it doesn't solve all the problems a SAW gunner faces.

I personally think SAW's, Mounted MG's and COAXIAL machine guns should all have a suppression effect diameter/radius far greater than an average Assault Rifle. This would set a completely new bracket of abilities for weapons designed with volume of fire and suppression in mind.

Although SAW's at this time can be used to a great extent in certain situations. They don't really strike fear into the enemy or truly provide the kind of effect they should theoretically have on a battlefield. SAW's need a buff in the functionality department; not so much in the accuracy department in my opinion.

Oldirti
2009-04-30, 12:58
I agree completly with M.Warren on the Suppression effects.

On medics, here's my two cents:

-1 medic is fine, it will make the game alot harder, and make people more cautious.
-Make headshots instakill for the sake of realism, and because stealth suffers if when you kill someone he might just come up behind you
-No Mo RP's. (make sure there is more Transport though.)

Rudd
2009-04-30, 13:20
(make sure there is more Transport though.)

gotta avoid the muttrah syndrome though!

the USMC on that map have enough transport for a team twice their size, and more than a squads worth of men will be flying if all the choppers are utilised.

Less choppers, slightly reduced spawn times would be more effective.

[NPK]ShieldBreaker
2009-04-30, 13:24
First I was like
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/planet-of-the-apes-ending.jpg


Then I was like
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/facepalm.jpg



But when I have thought about it a little bit, this is really great! The medic becomes more important and appreciated :-) And for the other kits, it's a huge improvement. Always being able to have a lmg is awesome. Love the new Elcan-optics-sight-thingy on the SAW.

Awesome that one can choose ironsights for SL.

You are doing an excellent job folks!
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/ChuckNorrisApproves.jpg

Rangu
2009-04-30, 13:35
hehe, way to go shield.

new Elcan-optics-sight-thingy on the SAW
Is pretty f'n ninja.

Mercenario(peru)
2009-04-30, 13:57
Very good news, only one medic in a squad really makes the difference. The SL kit with Iron sight, its good for close combat, good idea. The machine gun like a regular kit , I love it

SinisterKill69
2009-04-30, 15:23
The medic thing is going to suck. There are certian squads where I would have all my squad members come in as a medic like in TOW squads on Qwai River. But, all in all, awsome changes, I can't wait for the iron sight squad leader kit. I hate using scopes.

LeChuckle
2009-04-30, 15:55
hehe, way to go shield.


Is pretty f'n ninja.

ninjas dont use scopes

00SoldierofFortune00
2009-04-30, 16:03
That's exactly the same thing just worded differently.

No it isn't. With 2 medics, things went much more smoothly and the medics were able to get back the squad and themselves into the fight much quicker. I am just implying that with 1 medic now, he will spend almost 100% of his time either reviving or healing, turning people off from playing medic even more.


Because I don't find the medical role a burden, I think it's very beneficial teamwork element.

I don't mean a burden to a team, but a burden to the player. You may not have a problem with it, but a lot of people don't like going medic or find it appealing compared to some of the other classes.

TBH I don't personally care about whether head shots kill instantly or critically wound, either way the guys not shooting back anymore. Sure a medic can just revive him as it is, but that's why you try and kill the medic (more viable now that there's only 1 per squad).

The enemy medics were ALWAYS easy to kill. If you had a problem killing 2 medics who had no weapons out squatting down, then I don't know what to say. Since headshots don't kill, I can gurantee you that 3-5 guys will be yelling every second for that one medic to come revive them and then heal them. Maybe you like that, but I am sure a lot of players will not.


what do you mean for a medic its healing first fighting second if one medic limit will make it that then thats PERFECT!

Of course it is, I didn't say it wasn't, but you guys are making it like the medic shouldn't be able to fight at all. Yea, tell someone in your squad that they shouldn't fight and see how well that goes.

Skodz
2009-04-30, 16:14
The medic thing is going to suck. There are certian squads where I would have all my squad members come in as a medic like in TOW squads on Qwai River. But, all in all, awsome changes, I can't wait for the iron sight squad leader kit. I hate using scopes.

lol thats exactly the reason why they are doing this.

Spec
2009-04-30, 16:24
Afaik, the dev's wanted to make it so that dying twice within a minute makes you unrevivable. Less work for the medic if the squad's really getting wasted. Never more than 5 patients a minute, and that only during a huge fight.

sheggalism
2009-04-30, 16:25
Glad to see the dev team is never short of good ideas, ideas to make PR evolve :grin:

Automatic Rifleman with Optics ? People will be more likely to play that kit for sure !

Is there a standard scope issued and attached to the PKM in the Russian Army ??? Isn't this weapon more like a "regiment asset" than a "squad asset" ? I mean, a Minimi and a PKM don't have the same role, doctrine wise ? I'm confused...if someone can enlighten me.

Threedroogs
2009-04-30, 16:50
people are acting like a squad with one medic is too hard or too burdensome for the medic. this is NOT the case (as long as you have a good squad that stays together). i have been using one medic squads forever and it's VERY effective. in fact, it's MUCH more effective than having multiple medics. i think everyone that's been relying on two medics for the squad will be surprised at how unnecessary two medics are (after we get to play the new version a bit, of course).

icemannor
2009-04-30, 16:57
Jaymz;1006582']Just so everyone is aware, that's an ELCAN on the M249. It's the only MG optic that will be ready for 0.86 but they are planned for almost every faction (we'll change it to a SUSAT for the Brits in time).

what are you guys gonna do whit the mec isn't that a V BF2 ?

Mary.au
2009-04-30, 17:37
what are you guys gonna do whit the mec isn't that a V BF2 ?

Say what?

fuzzhead
2009-04-30, 17:43
mec will get an MG3 when the time comes (probably)

I like that idea warren with the different bullets for MG class weapons, would be a decent workload cause you would have to clone a bunch of projectiles, and not even sure if its possible but would be great to see, wont see in next build but maybe in the future.

[NPK]ShieldBreaker
2009-04-30, 18:07
fuzzhead;1008963']mec will get an MG3 when the time comes (probably)

MG3...........
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/homer_drooling.jpg

DesmoLocke
2009-04-30, 18:52
I always think of 0.85 as a step towards vanilla, hopefully that can change with the new patch.

I still feel its because they took out headshots... thus medic whoring became standard practice especially on CQB maps. (ex. Asad Kahl)

icemannor
2009-04-30, 19:15
Say what?

add scope to the Mec MG ..

Spaz
2009-04-30, 19:15
Say what?

The mec mg is a vbf2 model so you can't edit it.

The answer is.... They are going to have to make a new one.

Jaymz
2009-04-30, 20:06
We've already decided on all the new conventional MG's that will be introduced. Like fuzz said, the MEC will get an MG3.

Warpig-
2009-04-30, 20:45
Hmmm MG3, do want

thejollyroger12345
2009-04-30, 21:13
you know i think PoE has an MG3 model, could go ask politley :P

Arakizuki
2009-04-30, 22:08
Whoa, a Elcan on a SAW. Finally! Now I wont have to ask my squad if that pixel over there is a sign or a hostile.

Poi_Medic
2009-04-30, 22:10
I like. I also like the fact that officers can chose a scope or ironsight model :D

CodeRedFox
2009-04-30, 22:11
nothing beats a spotter Arakizuki. Its really cool when you got a bunch of rounds going down range and on guy adjusting fire :-P

Warpig-
2009-04-30, 22:17
In theory, but most people don't give a rats ass about helping you spot with the SAW. I've asked many times :-P

CodeRedFox
2009-04-30, 22:37
Then they can die and respawn. :lol:

If you have never had the pleasure or the opportunity to unload on a target you cant see and only having your fire adjusted by a third point you haven't played. Its a cool feeling.

Warpig-
2009-04-30, 22:39
I agree, on the rare occasion we get a nice fire support team working. It's awesome to have someone adjust fire and tell you when you're hitting someone. It's even better if they curse at you over global chat lol

Arakizuki
2009-04-30, 22:45
CodeRedFox;1009205']nothing beats a spotter Arakizuki. Its really cool when you got a bunch of rounds going down range and on guy adjusting fire :-P

Yeah that's true but support weapons are meant for medium to long range fire. Even if you have someone spotting for you it's hard to aim for that spot if all you see is a tiny amount of green pixels through your iron sights.

(Compare it to having a M40 with a red dot. You have a large effective range but you can't aim for jack)

Bringerof_D
2009-05-01, 04:07
One concern about the SAW spawnable kit that just sprang to mind. Take an insurgency map for example, say the SAW gunner is killed and the enemy steals his kit (as seen ALL the time with any kit). Now, this squad member who just died would normally have to spawn on the RP, now no longer equipped with this powerful weapon. However, now he can spawn straight back into the fight with his trusty SAW again, again potentially to be stolen once more.

I foresee a Taliban team equpped with many 4x scoped SAW's because its no longer limited and too plentiful, possibly tipping the balance. The argument against of course is players should be more careful, not spawn in if too dangerous yada yada. Players are hardcoded and do stupid things.

I'm not saying I don't like the change, in fact I really like the fact that a squad can always have a SAW gunner. Just thought I'd point out a potential game play change that could tip the balance slightly.

i believe the AR kit is still limited, so if it's stolen you cant spawn with it. the only difference now is you can spawn in directly with it instead of having to request, that is if it is still available.

Bringerof_D
2009-05-01, 04:48
About SAW, no big deal really... as a SL, I rarely have the reflex to use a saw gunner in my squad because its not that much useful... They must go prone in order to hit anything and they are the #1 target as soon as ennemies hear them... Having maximum 9 SAW gunner and scoped isn't gonna be a problem in my opinion. This weapon system is overrated.

that problem is something that can probably be non existent once they figure out how to get past using the deviation system. if they ever manage to get the rights to fix the engine i'm sure the first thing on the devs list will be to remove the deviation and put in a breathing pattern like BF1942 snipers, they have it in BF2142 but that was lame it just goes up and down, no left and right.

rampo
2009-05-01, 07:32
why do i have the feeling that the optics on top of the saw are a joke? it looks kinda simple... and yes ive been having some trust issues after april =P

paratrooper[BG]
2009-05-01, 07:42
vanilla vanilla vanilla remove automatic from spawn menu

bosco_
2009-05-01, 08:33
IT'S STILL LIMITED TO THE SAME NUMBERS AS IT IS NOW

/cruise

Mary.au
2009-05-01, 08:55
;1009553']vanilla vanilla vanilla remove automatic from spawn menu

You make no sense sir.

If you are referring to vanilla as in having unlimited kits, then are a wrong, hence the "restricted" next to the kit name.

If you are referring to simply having that kit on the kit selection screen, I don't think that's a big deal at all.

Viki
2009-05-01, 09:34
Just of pure curiosity:

1) When a round starts, can everyone from the squad select a 'Limited'-kit? Let's say everyone chooses the AR-kit, what happens when everyone spawns? Who gets it or does everyone get it? Or will there be a message saying "this kit has already been selected by someone else"? :)

2) If one dies with a 'Limited'-kit, and the enemy, someone from your own squad or team picks it up, can you still spawn with it again?

Looking good! https://www.realitymod.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

All the best,
Viki

DankE_SPB
2009-05-01, 10:38
1) When a round starts, can everyone from the squad select a 'Limited'-kit? Let's say everyone chooses the AR-kit, what happens when everyone spawns? Who gets it or does everyone get it? Or will there be a message saying "this kit has already been selected by someone else"?

i guess same system as with officer, you cant spawn or, if you forgot to choose another one and didnt open spawnmenu, you spawn and die

icemannor
2009-05-01, 11:33
you know i think PoE has an MG3 model, could go ask politley :P

they don't share there models with PR

LeChuckle
2009-05-01, 11:37
PoE is dead. loot the corpse.

General_J0k3r
2009-05-01, 11:53
zomg an unscoped officer kit. my prayers have been answered. srsly, thank you :)

CAS_117
2009-05-01, 11:56
If you need two medics in the squad youre doing something wrong.

Revive = "oops I fail. Can has nother try lol? :D"

No Squad Leader you may not... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XSQ_kQedQ)

icemannor
2009-05-01, 12:51
PoE is dead. loot the corpse.

haha !! :twisted:

SocketMan
2009-05-01, 19:13
PoE is dead. loot the corpse.


Necromaniacs everywhere rejoice!

My main "concern" are the civilian casualties on the Insurgency maps,could possibly
get mowed down along side the actual insurgents.The innocent always suffer the most :(:wink:

M.Warren
2009-05-01, 20:42
PoE is dead. loot the corpse.

Is it really dead? Well if so, then you can have the rest of the loot. I'll be taking the AAV7, thanks.

Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAVP7A1) - Picture 1 (http://pointofexistence.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=740&g2_serialNumber=1)
Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAVP7A1) - Picture 2 (http://pointofexistence.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=747&g2_serialNumber=1)
Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAVP7A1) - Picture 3 (http://pointofexistence.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=744&g2_serialNumber=1)

-=TB=- Sturmjaeger
2009-05-01, 20:52
PoE 2 is dead. But they continue work on PoE 1 based on the BF Vietnam Engine!

sakils2
2009-05-01, 22:02
Now, I'm going to spawn only with the AR kit... Good job, as always!

CodeRedFox
2009-05-01, 22:04
Now, I'm going to spawn only with the AR kit... Good job, as always!

Good job team player :mrgreen:

sakils2
2009-05-01, 22:14
CodeRedFox;1010160']Good job team player :mrgreen:

Damn it, you got me! :(

TempesT
2009-05-01, 22:50
I don't know about having 1 medic kit per squad. There is an enormous work load for medics in squads if they are the only one, and most of the best squad leaders ask for 2 medics at least.
Also the fact that people might "take" the medic kit from your squad. I know it sounds kind of silly, but the medic is the best ramboer, considering you can take many hits if you keep patching yourself up.
It's not a gamebreaker, but I think there should at least be 2 medics per squad.

Skodz
2009-05-01, 23:12
It looks like a lot of people was/are over exploiting this kit... Having only 1 medic/squad will be very nice :)

\/\/007-1337
2009-05-02, 06:30
brown toung'

How many more changes are going to be made to this mod ?
its the bugs that need addressing not different things added weapons changed just to create more bugs
work on fixing the
1 ctd
2 general crashes
3 sqaud bug thats plauged since early PR
4 insurgent cell leaders dying of fire too easy
5 braking your ankles of slinding down a 3 foot hill
6 getting stuck in scenery and having to suicide cos u can't move
7 server lists not updating
8 assets killing teammates when placed
9 placed assets being able to be hidden inside so you cant be shot, or seen
10 so called weapons deviation' yet guys can still kill you whilst running and shooting yet ur lay prone

i could go on the list is endless glitching inside walls vehicle bugs weapons bugs nades not exploding
etc etc TRY FIXING THESE BEFORE LOADING A WHOLE NEW BUNCH OFF BUGS INTO THE GAME

your going to slowly kill the game off whith this never ending constant modding stuff
i see ppl play it every day and ppl still cant get to grips with how PR works some can some cant,
but the one thing i hear in all the sqauds i leed is abouts bugs dying off simple things like jumping a wall
or barbed wire or cumbersum graphics changes that take the soldier 10 seconds to actually re cock his rifle every time he holds it or changes it from another utility.

Im so tired of this mod i gave up playing it last year after 2 yrs of playing it i thought id give it another go but its got worse since 0.7 so much so now that some of the bugs make ppl simply quit out of game and turn off there pc it happens all the time pple leaving servers because of the bull***t

ahh what the heck............

Edit: User was warned for "attitude problem"... 3 strikes and your out :roll:

Maxfragg
2009-05-02, 07:29
lol, could you please have a short guess what the news and what the bugs forum is used for?
okay, both are not meant for crying around

USA-Forever932
2009-05-02, 07:29
I really have to disagree with the 1 medic per squad thing. A prime example of why having two medics is useful was found in a game of Jabal I had yesterday.

I led a USMC infantry squad comprised of the following
-------------------------Cover Team--------------------------------
[1]Officer
[1]Automatic Rifleman
[1]Medic
-------------------------Assault Team--------------------------------
[2]Roflman
[2]Roflman
[2]Medic
We were mechanized with a group of PRCata guys who operated an LAV-25 for us. They drove us across the bridge and in range to dam for an attack. The enemy however, was well prepared with machine gun nests and a firebase. The APC, drove onto the dam and opened up on the enemy while supporting my assault fireteam (All of the people with 2s by their names). Meanwhile, myself, the automatic and the medic provided more flanking suppressive fire our side of the dam. I used my GLTD and attack markers to mark out targets for the automatic who had poor vision due to his irons. Sadly though, the automatic took a round through the chest delivered by a marksman who I shot quickly after. Luckily for us, we had a medic on standby who was also assisting in suppressing fire. He quickly got the automatic back on task and firing at the enemy. Needless to say, in the thick of the enemy forces, the assault team also took casualties. But because they were supported by the APC and suppressive team, the medic had the cover he needed to deal with any casualties. Just imagine for a second, that we did NOT have that medic. What would the situation have been like, do we have a medic running back and fourth to heal the automatic rifleman and the now four man assault team? This seems incredibly inefficient. A medic works well as a close range defender who can cover backsides and assist in attacks.

This may seem like a one time thing but it has happened again on Operation Ghost Train. This time in a different fashion. Again, leading an infantry squad for the British army with the same setup as the last time, my squad defeated the enemy by dividing up into two "Buddy teams" of three. Our task was to break the stalemate by using a small rope bridge to cross the river and take the Chinese held side of the bridge. The rope bridge looked dangerous, a squad that had been sent over before which was now defending, had just been lost. I setup my cover team with a good sight range of the far side of the bridge. It was now time for the assault team to cross. With the riflemen in front and the medic in back. The assault team crossed without any trouble, I ordered them towards the edge of the map to avoid any Chinese forces and they began to move north, still in our sight range but away from bridgehead. That was the easy part, one of the rifles quickly called in contact, and I ordered him to open fire. The tracer fire revealed the position of the Chinese to the cover team and the automatic rifleman, coupled with my GLTD, quickly took advantage of the situation. We killed several Chinese soldiers before being spotted. The enemy obviously had a rally nearby as no matter how many times we would kill them, they just got back up! Also, due to the density of the enemy, we were obviously dealing with more than one squad.

After making a large sum of kills, our automatic took a well-placed round which put him into blackscreen. He was totally unable to fire and required a medic. I now took the charge of suppression while the medic did his job. Unfortunately, our assault team had taken losses as well! Now it was up to their medic, covered by our automatic rifleman, to revive his team. The Chinese tried to take advantage of our casualties by making a push towards the bridge. The cover team took withering amounts of fire and had to pull back a few meters in order to get a better position. However, the cover team used this chance to strike back! They quickly regrouped and scoured through the area and located the Chineese rally points. Upon their destruction, the cover team made their way back to the bridge and shattered the remaining Chinese troops in a powerful pincer movement. The only thing that our squad was short on was ammo and epipens. We realized that the Chinese would regroup soon so, short on ammunition, we made our way across the bridge to attempt to break the stalemate. Proud that single handedly, through determination, tactics and teamwork, we had singlehandedly halted the advance of two Chinese squads.

These kinds of fire teams may seem difficult to organize, but they really aren't. I've jumped into pub games and have organized these teams. They allow squads to flank by them selves and more successfully spread out to cover more ground. Handcuffing squads to only one medic forces not only single squads to stay together, but multiple squads to bunch together around the two medics. IMHO, the difference between having one and two medics is like night and day. Having one medic slows you down and prevents you from moving fast and bringing shock. Having two allows one medic to function as a doctor, and another to focus on a slightly more combative role, still hanging in the back but acting as an extra gun as well as a bag when the time comes.

If this was TL;DR, I'm just asking for two medics per squad.

nick20404
2009-05-02, 07:35
brown toung'

How many more changes are going to be made to this mod ?
its the bugs that need addressing not different things added weapons changed just to create more bugs
work on fixing the
1 ctd
2 general crashes
3 sqaud bug thats plauged since early PR
4 insurgent cell leaders dying of fire too easy
5 braking your ankles of slinding down a 3 foot hill
6 getting stuck in scenery and having to suicide cos u can't move
7 server lists not updating
8 assets killing teammates when placed
9 placed assets being able to be hidden inside so you cant be shot, or seen
10 so called weapons deviation' yet guys can still kill you whilst running and shooting yet ur lay prone

i could go on the list is endless glitching inside walls vehicle bugs weapons bugs nades not exploding
etc etc TRY FIXING THESE BEFORE LOADING A WHOLE NEW BUNCH OFF BUGS INTO THE GAME

your going to slowly kill the game off whith this never ending constant modding stuff
i see ppl play it every day and ppl still cant get to grips with how PR works some can some cant,
but the one thing i hear in all the sqauds i leed is abouts bugs dying off simple things like jumping a wall
or barbed wire or cumbersum graphics changes that take the soldier 10 seconds to actually re cock his rifle every time he holds it or changes it from another utility.

Im so tired of this mod i gave up playing it last year after 2 yrs of playing it i thought id give it another go but its got worse since 0.7 so much so now that some of the bugs make ppl simply quit out of game and turn off there pc it happens all the time pple leaving servers because of the bull***t

ahh what the heck............

Most of those bugs are VBF2 bugs and the devs can't do anything to fix them only EA/Dice can. The PR devs can only do so much to the engine. If you quit PR a year ago why are you still here posting how bad it is. In your first thread you said you were not coming back anymore but here you are trying to say the mod needs fixing but its fine. If you want those Vbf2 bugs fixed than go tell EA/Dice about it but you should change your tone.

If you don't know how the weapon deviation works than play in the training servers more often there are plenty of people who play all the time and know how to shoot properly you can't just jump on the game and expect to be the best.

Spaz
2009-05-02, 07:44
1 ctd
2 general crashes
3 sqaud bug thats plauged since early PR
4 insurgent cell leaders dying of fire too easy
5 braking your ankles of slinding down a 3 foot hill
6 getting stuck in scenery and having to suicide cos u can't move
7 server lists not updating
8 assets killing teammates when placed
9 placed assets being able to be hidden inside so you cant be shot, or seen
10 so called weapons deviation' yet guys can still kill you whilst running and shooting yet ur lay prone

i could go on the list is endless glitching inside walls vehicle bugs weapons bugs nades not exploding

If you know any bugs please post them in the bug section this will help the devs find bug that they or the testers may have missed.
PR Bugs - Project Reality Forums (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f26-pr-bugs)

And if you have any suggestions for gameplay fixes please post them here.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f252-pr-v0-85-feedback

A good way to help the devs improve the game and finding bugs is to sign up as a tester.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/testerapp.php


the bugs make ppl simply quit out of game and turn off there pc it happens all the time pple leaving servers because of the bull***t

Hmm, last time i checked PR got more players then ever and its a pain in the a** to join some servers because people not leaving. ;)

masterceo
2009-05-02, 08:09
brown toung'

1 ctd
2 general crashes
3 sqaud bug thats plauged since early PR
4 insurgent cell leaders dying of fire too easy
5 braking your ankles of slinding down a 3 foot hill
6 getting stuck in scenery and having to suicide cos u can't move
7 server lists not updating
8 assets killing teammates when placed
9 placed assets being able to be hidden inside so you cant be shot, or seen
10 so called weapons deviation' yet guys can still kill you whilst running and shooting yet ur lay prone



1.don't have them lulz
2.same
3.vanilla bug, can't be fixed
4.???
5.again, vanilla
6.happens very rarely and if it's found and posted in bugs forum, DEVs fix it for next release
7.never experienced it
8.only if teammates are dumb enough to run in front of squadleader when he is placing one, yeah sure it happens sometimes, but you can revive him right?
9.i don't think much can be done about this, BF2 engine
10.yes, deviation needs still some improving imo, but now it's actually pretty good, you should have played 0.8 to see what bad deviation is.

USA-Forever932
2009-05-02, 08:18
In theory, but most people don't give a rats ass about helping you spot with the SAW. I've asked many times :-P

Join my infantry squads :mrgreen:

people are acting like a squad with one medic is too hard or too burdensome for the medic. this is NOT the case (as long as you have a good squad that stays together). i have been using one medic squads forever and it's VERY effective. in fact, it's MUCH more effective than having multiple medics. i think everyone that's been relying on two medics for the squad will be surprised at how unnecessary two medics are (after we get to play the new version a bit, of course).

It's not that it's too hard, it's not that it's too burdensome it's that it's too restricting. Sure, we can play with 1 medic, but it's a pain. I often reduce my squad to 5 members when I play with only 1 medic because it increases efficiency and my mobility goes up with the reduced team. For me, having two medics in a squad is more effective than having one. I believe that it's the choice and preference of the squad leader, and that the game should support the squad leader's choice of having 1 or 2 medics and prevent him from having a medic spam.

I agree completly with M.Warren on the Suppression effects.

On medics, here's my two cents:

-1 medic is fine, it will make the game alot harder, and make people more cautious.
-Make headshots instakill for the sake of realism, and because stealth suffers if when you kill someone he might just come up behind you
-No Mo RP's. (make sure there is more Transport though.)

-Well, if it stays 1 medic, I guess I'm going to have a lot of 5 man squads. It's just more effective for me to lead 4 others when cuffed to only 1 medic.

-Yeah, headshots instakill would be nice.

-NO NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO! I can see it now, your squad drives down muttrah in a truck, you stop a safe distance from the firefight and begin to huff it along. But before you know it, CLACKA CLACKA CLACKA BOOM BOOM BOOM, a Cobra Rapes your squad's face and you have to go all the way back to base again and walk up to the city. LAME! PR is not ARMA. This is a game designed to created an equilibrium between hardcore simulator and arcade. Sure rally points are realistic, but it's not fun. I don't want to have a game consisting of 1:30minutes of walking and chopper rides and 10 minutes of action no matter how close to real life it is.

Yeah but I mean if one medic kit is always available per squad, and people are so obsessed with fireteams then there would be more 3 man squads, because with mumble it would be more effective to slip up squads to get that extra medic kit and rallypoint.


But I was more talking about people not going off in their own world with their own squad, rather keeping together and getting help from another squad, instead of just splitting into 2 fireteams to assault themselves.

It's good that PR has crunched people down into squads. It's a great thing, squad communication is great as well. APC squads working with infantry and infantry squads making tactics with eachother. But we don't want to have to make it so that it takes two squads to do the most rudimentary of tasks. We need 2 squads for a flanking maneuver? We now HAVE to use Mumble in order to be effective? The flexibility of kits allowed SLs to do new things with their squads. With all these limitations, because I honestly wasn't worried about the others, we are losing the ability to do new things. Sure we can do them with other squads. But what about those smaller games? What about those huge maps where you have squad vs squad battles. Now your squad can't single handedly out think another enemy squad by itself. That was one of the great things about PR. 6-8 people working together to defeat another team of 6-8 all within the greater 32v32 player battle. Now we are forcing players into blobs of 12-18. Sure it was cool in those games of AL-Basrah where we steamrolled the insurgents using all of the vehicles at once. I was there with DB, so freaking awesome. But that's not every game of PR. Also, why is it so bad to have 6 man squads going off on their own? Patroling the map for civilians or contacts. In fact, when there were big blobs of men around the map. It was my small group of 5 men with a Humvee who eliminated 3 caches (Different game of Operation Archer).

About fireteams, why slip up your squad when the second fireteam can be another squad. There is teamwork for you. And if you really want fireteams and 2 medics, you just make 2 squads of 3 and there you go. 2 Rallies aswell.....

Well, it looks like every server is going to have to switch up their rules about locked squads because people are suddenly going to have to turn on Vent, Xfire and Mumble and have an army of minature locked squads. "Maximum number of squads reached!" here we come! Honestly, not human blobbing your squad is a very good thing, as demonstrated in my last post. I'm a better SL in open terrain maps like Jabal, Ghost Train and Archer. On those maps, fireteams reign supreme and they can destroy enemies. They have found their use on City maps like Muttrah and many times on Sunset (I freaking love this map). So now we are going to have to have officers acting like Riflemen? Who is going to take the role of being the officer that oversees both fireteams? Instead of having
]
[1]Officer
[1]Auto
[1]Medic


[2]Officer
[2]Rifleman
[2]Medic


Why don't we just have

[1]Officer
[1]Auto
[1]Medic
[2]Rifleman
[2]Rifleman
[2]Medic

This way, we don't use up two squads, we don't have officers acting like riflemen. We don't have all those extra rallies, we don't end up with 6 locked squads holding only 18 people 3 each. And we actually know exactly who in in charge.

Ragni<RangersPL>
2009-05-02, 13:23
4.???
This
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f26-pr-bugs/57554-0856-insurgent-officer-flame-fire.html

7.never experienced it

I did, and also couple of my clanmates had it. AFAIK it's not related to PR.




Back on topic....

Will it be still possible to pick up AR or medic kit from fallen foes or friendlies???

Spaz
2009-05-02, 13:30
Belive me you will still be able to do fire teams with just one medic, fire teams aren't miles away from each other, if some someone gets hit you got at least 2 min to get your medic to his position to help him out.

I played in squads that splits into 2 groups and lead some myself and there have never been any problem with just having one medic.

It would also be interesting to hear from any real soldiers how many medics there would be on six people.

Ssgt.Smit
2009-05-02, 17:00
a auto rifleman with ACOG scope :D yeee

DeadSmile187
2009-05-02, 17:16
Sweet , cant wait !

arthuro12
2009-05-02, 17:45
a auto rifleman with ACOG scope :D yeee


Elcan :)

we use it on our MACH's as well buddy! :D

Human_001
2009-05-03, 08:26
Very good update! But...

On average out of every three BLUFOR Insurgent encounter they gona have LMG.
I don't think this is good idea. You won't see 1 out of every 3 soldier carrying LMG in real life right?

If this happens based on reality, can I suggest Insurgent spawn kit with RPG or SVD?

Spaz
2009-05-03, 08:36
On average out of every three BLUFOR Insurgent encounter they gona have LMG.
I don't think this is good idea. You won't see 1 out of every 3 soldier carrying LMG in real life right?

You will have 1 LMG for every squad that got 3 or more soldiers, so you won't be able to have 1 LMG for every 3 soldiers. (unless every squad have 3 soldiers.)

[NPK]ShieldBreaker
2009-05-03, 09:53
Whoa, a Elcan on a SAW. Finally! Now I wont have to ask my squad if that pixel over there is a sign or a hostile.

LOL :D

Suggestion:
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/ThePunisher19891.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq148/True_Arrow/ThePunisher19892.jpg

LMG can haz fortee mike mikes?

Grasli
2009-05-03, 10:59
Nice!

But the changes for the Officer kit (Iron sight/Scope), will that be the same for the requestable menu? Ie. we can choose between iron/scope there too? ;)

As for medic:
It should be limited to 2 per squad (maximum), not only 1. As a lot of people have mentioned earlier, some squads split up in two (Cover/Assault or whatever), so having 2 medics per squad is kind of needed.

Singularity
2009-05-03, 16:05
5 Medic a team is a super team in close fight.
That will be history.

fuzzhead
2009-05-03, 16:21
I really have to disagree with the 1 medic per squad thing. A prime example of why having two medics is useful was found in a game of Jabal I had yesterday.

I led a USMC infantry squad comprised of the following

* -------------------------Cover Team--------------------------------
[1]Officer
[1]Automatic Rifleman
[1]Medic
-------------------------Assault Team--------------------------------
[2]Roflman
[2]Roflman
[2]Medic

We were mechanized with a group of PRCata guys who operated an LAV-25 for us. They drove us across the bridge and in range to dam for an attack. The enemy however, was well prepared with machine gun nests and a firebase. The APC, drove onto the dam and opened up on the enemy while supporting my assault fireteam (All of the people with 2s by their names). Meanwhile, myself, the automatic and the medic provided more flanking suppressive fire our side of the dam. I used my GLTD and attack markers to mark out targets for the automatic who had poor vision due to his irons. Sadly though, the automatic took a round through the chest delivered by a marksman who I shot quickly after. Luckily for us, we had a medic on standby who was also assisting in suppressing fire. He quickly got the automatic back on task and firing at the enemy. Needless to say, in the thick of the enemy forces, the assault team also took casualties. But because they were supported by the APC and suppressive team, the medic had the cover he needed to deal with any casualties. Just imagine for a second, that we did NOT have that medic. What would the situation have been like, do we have a medic running back and fourth to heal the automatic rifleman and the now four man assault team? This seems incredibly inefficient. A medic works well as a close range defender who can cover backsides and assist in attacks.

This may seem like a one time thing but it has happened again on Operation Ghost Train. This time in a different fashion. Again, leading an infantry squad for the British army with the same setup as the last time, my squad defeated the enemy by dividing up into two "Buddy teams" of three. Our task was to break the stalemate by using a small rope bridge to cross the river and take the Chinese held side of the bridge. The rope bridge looked dangerous, a squad that had been sent over before which was now defending, had just been lost. I setup my cover team with a good sight range of the far side of the bridge. It was now time for the assault team to cross. With the riflemen in front and the medic in back. The assault team crossed without any trouble, I ordered them towards the edge of the map to avoid any Chinese forces and they began to move north, still in our sight range but away from bridgehead. That was the easy part, one of the rifles quickly called in contact, and I ordered him to open fire. The tracer fire revealed the position of the Chinese to the cover team and the automatic rifleman, coupled with my GLTD, quickly took advantage of the situation. We killed several Chinese soldiers before being spotted. The enemy obviously had a rally nearby as no matter how many times we would kill them, they just got back up! Also, due to the density of the enemy, we were obviously dealing with more than one squad.

After making a large sum of kills, our automatic took a well-placed round which put him into blackscreen. He was totally unable to fire and required a medic. I now took the charge of suppression while the medic did his job. Unfortunately, our assault team had taken losses as well! Now it was up to their medic, covered by our automatic rifleman, to revive his team. The Chinese tried to take advantage of our casualties by making a push towards the bridge. The cover team took withering amounts of fire and had to pull back a few meters in order to get a better position. However, the cover team used this chance to strike back! They quickly regrouped and scoured through the area and located the Chineese rally points. Upon their destruction, the cover team made their way back to the bridge and shattered the remaining Chinese troops in a powerful pincer movement. The only thing that our squad was short on was ammo and epipens. We realized that the Chinese would regroup soon so, short on ammunition, we made our way across the bridge to attempt to break the stalemate. Proud that single handedly, through determination, tactics and teamwork, we had singlehandedly halted the advance of two Chinese squads.

These kinds of fire teams may seem difficult to organize, but they really aren't. I've jumped into pub games and have organized these teams. They allow squads to flank by them selves and more successfully spread out to cover more ground. Handcuffing squads to only one medic forces not only single squads to stay together, but multiple squads to bunch together around the two medics. IMHO, the difference between having one and two medics is like night and day. Having one medic slows you down and prevents you from moving fast and bringing shock. Having two allows one medic to function as a doctor, and another to focus on a slightly more combative role, still hanging in the back but acting as an extra gun as well as a bag when the time comes.

If this was TL;DR, I'm just asking for two medics per squad.

Try doing these same tactics with only 1 medic, I think youll see they can be just as effective (and sometimes more effective since you got more grenades/flexibility).

What you got to realize is that the ENEMY will also have these same restrictions (1 medic per squad) so it will basically be changing the role of the combat medic again...

I agree with most that too many times the a medic is always on point, which makes little sense but thats because the medic is so abundant/expendable, which will no longer be the case.

BroCop
2009-05-03, 16:33
Ahem Medic is on point (from my point of view) because the user forgets he is a bloody medic.

Also from my experience on PRT the medic that stays behind IS the one to fall the first (because he is a sitting duck for flanking manouvers)

Skodz
2009-05-03, 16:40
Nice!

But the changes for the Officer kit (Iron sight/Scope), will that be the same for the requestable menu? Ie. we can choose between iron/scope there too? ;)

As for medic:
It should be limited to 2 per squad (maximum), not only 1. As a lot of people have mentioned earlier, some squads split up in two (Cover/Assault or whatever), so having 2 medics per squad is kind of needed.

I doubt medic should be on assault team...

So many people misusing it.

Human_001
2009-05-03, 17:02
As I get it by reading some posts, I think some member here thinks:
Not being able to revive every single downed squad mate = Ineffective

This game is not about how effectively you can stab a dead friendly with magic wand. Please remember this game has potential to be infantry simulator and many users expect that.

You will have 1 LMG for every squad that got 3 or more soldiers, so you won't be able to have 1 LMG for every 3 soldiers. (unless every squad have 3 soldiers.)

And yes, for LMG, I think players will make 3 man squad more often for this. Not saying that 3 man squad is bad or anything. But they will join squad for M249.
But as you said, if there is going to be 1 LMG per squad, that is pretty real isn't it?

AnRK
2009-05-03, 17:13
Will people quit it with the 2 medics is more useful argument? A squad comprised of an Officer and 5 portable miniguns would be more useful but it's also pretty stupid and unrealistic, I think 1 in 6 men is probably a little too much in terms of common ratios if you looked at the real figures but given the restrictions you work with with BF2 it's kinda reasonable.

Anyway it is more of a progressive role changing thing to have 1 per squad like has been said, it's very different from changing the limit from the potential 5 you have at the moment to 2 if that were to be the case, to have 1 medic over several means that they need to watch themselves. I assume it can't be done and that's why it hasn't but I'd go a step further and make it so if a medic goes down his kit can't be picked up by others, cos even with this system people will end up taking the medic kit when they go down without it having much of an impact other then perhaps said player having to get themselves in the line of fire to do so.

0blivi0us
2009-05-03, 21:23
This'll be a great change, and it might force people into being good medics. Because lots of SL's prefer 2 medics. making one medic suspendible. Now a squad really has got to saver their medic and protect him. when a someone gets shot down, they have to group together to protect the medic.

Maybe people will actually work together instead of wondering off.

This is a great improvement.

Spaz
2009-05-03, 21:38
But they will join squad for M249.

They could do that now too....

DNAz5646
2009-05-04, 06:41
this is a mini suggestion but what if we make it like a real squad. 1 per squad limit on everything but norm rifleman/point man/rifle spec and the others are limited IE:
SL/officer
MEDIC
GRENADIER
LAT
LMG
LIGHT MARKSMAN IE AR with improved scope ect

so GRENADIER LAT and LMG replaced by

DEMO a combat engie can repair with wrench ect but no explosives. demo gets 3 c4 more explosives than combat engie as it is now but can repair again with wrench.

MARKSMAN but not a weak one but a light sniper rifle probably still normal marksman but give more real/better damage range.

MMG (medium) MG ie FN mag for brits and US QJY-88 or Type 67 MMG for china not sure bout mec

any thoughts?

Raic
2009-05-04, 07:43
any thoughts?

Yes, no.

Ecko
2009-05-04, 08:36
This is a great idea, particularly the LMG on the spawn menu, it will further encourage squads to use cover fire techniques. However, I believe the UGL should be limited in the same way as the LMG. Lets face it, realistically every deployed squad has at least one UGL in real life. This will one again encourage people to use it and push out new tactics. Further more its a good replacement for the fact no real progress has been made on the mortar situation (Unless its being kept hushed up).

sakils2
2009-05-04, 09:37
IIRC someone said that in US Army and/or USMC theres a AR and Grenadier on every 4 people. I may be wrong.

Warpig-
2009-05-04, 11:39
And in a perfect game that'd be accurately reflected. But BF2, the way it is. That's not going to be possible. The devs have to ballance what's realistic, with what's not going to be exploited to obvilion. I think having the AR in the spawn menu is a perfect compromise

sakils2
2009-05-04, 12:28
The devs have to ballance what's realistic, with what's not going to be exploited to obvilion.

How so? LMG can be exploited like the Grenadiers! I'm sure DEV's will limit the AR kit, so it wouldn't be exploited. They could achieve the same thing with Grenadier- limit, relocation time etc.

Warpig-
2009-05-04, 12:32
The grenadier kit is more of a tard magnet than the AR.

McBumLuv
2009-05-04, 13:26
The grenadier kit is more of a tard magnet than the AR.

That's one of the least backed up statements I've ever seen, and I don't see any evidence at all to prove it. It's just a worthless statement with no value.

Ontopic - I'm looking forward to these changes. While there might be a few more changes I'd like to see, no one's to say they aren't going to happen, and spawn limiting is a much better step towards "realism" from not having an AR in every squad practically because they died and you can't request it or w/e.

Ecko
2009-05-04, 15:17
The grenadier kit is more of a tard magnet than the AR.

Firstly how often do you actually see the grenadier kit in play? I see one per a server at most. This kit is fantastic but it always takes the side lines because its just not good enough too warrant heading to a supply crate for if you're spawning at a RP. Its excellent for room clearance and fire support.

SgtFailure
2009-05-04, 15:28
Limiting the kits like AR, Grenadier and LAT will be good, i'm too used to seeing a whole bunch hybrid taliban fighters carrying US special kits in Archer. People will just grab the kits and charge into the cache area, they will only end up giving the insurgents more scoped weapons. Now whoever complaints insurgents does not get scoped weapons, they literally fall out of the sky! Back to topic, maybe the squad leader can assign kits to specific members of the squad instead of the squad member getting their own special kits and go rambo, but i guess these kind of features will probably be hardcoded or having too much people complaining about the squad leader not giving them the kits they want.

SgtFailure