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Cassius
2009-03-28, 00:24
Note, I posted it under Squadleader tactics as well so squadleaders can have a look at it and hopefully direct and work with the apc better.

Cassius guide apc

The apc can transport up to 6 troops and effectively engage infantery light armor and to a certain extend, medium armor.
The roles it can fulfill are therefore transport surpressive fire, offensive fire, deterrence, eganging hostile infantery and engaging hostile vehicles.

Some models are heavily armored and have a lot of firepower, other models are only lightly armored and can only engage infantery and light vehicles.

The apc in a squad.

The apc should be in his own squad. Other squads can request transport and support over teamspeak the commander or using the comrose.
The only time an apc should be given to an infantery squad is on maps where a lot of the manpower is tied up in vehicles, so that surplus armor is avaiable to be assigned to an infantery squad.

Transport.

In real life APCs are implemented to make sure infantery can keep up with the tanks over long distances.
In game it isnt necessarily required to call in an apc for transport to cover 150m over sage ground.
However over longer distances, 500m and up, there is no reason to not call an idle APC.

Another reason for transport is to reinforce a friendly squad with an additional squad, to make sure enough bodies are on the ground. It is a difference if a 6 man squad engages 8-14 enemy soldiers and then another friendly squad engages 6-12 soldiers or if 2 squads 12 men total engage an enemy squad. In that case it is vital to reinforce friendly troops quickly by trnasporting additional troops, even over short distances if the reinforcing squad has to cover unsafe ground and might end up bogged down by enemy contacts.

Surpressive fire.

Surpressive fire requires some coordination with a squadleader. To advance a squadleader will instinctively lead his squad through an area that offers as much cover as possible. However that might mean fighting someplace where the apc can not effectively engage enemy
Infantery. The apc should cover the open ground or an alley alongside which friendly units move. Surpressive fire should be used if in an urban setting the apc can not safely maneuver into a position from where it can effectively take out enemy infantery, or against entrenched enemy infantery, else if possible offensive fire should be used and the enemy be effectively eliminated by the apc itself. Sadly many drivers do not bring the apc in a good position to deny the enemy cover even in a situation where it is possible for them.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/Cassius_19/APCoverwatch.png
The apc covers an alley and engages hostile units which are drawn out by friendly units moving in the open.

Offensive fire.

To take out enemy infantery the apc should either on its own, seek out infanter on the move, hit them and then fall back, or engage infantery when called in by a squadleader for support.
It is usually a bad idea to stick around and try to eliminate every single hostile that made its way into cover. Chances are they will be in a position the apc can not reach out to and the longer the apc remains at a position revelead to the enemy, the more likely it is countermeasures can be deployed.
If an squadleader calls in an APC the squadleader himself should tell the driver what is an advantagious point to direct the apc to.
To take out the enemy squad the apc should preferably engage from the side or back. Pulling up to the friendly squad itself is the least effective to lie down fire, because hostiles will already have taken cover to protect themselves from small arms fire, but if the apc pulls up to their side or back the enemy should be the most exposed.
Ask the squadleader what way the enemy is facing and try to position your apc accordingly.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/Cassius_19/APCoffensive.png
The apc pulls up next to an enemy squad after having been called in and obtaining details about the squads location, or after having been directed by the squadleader of the infantery squad.

Deterrence.

The presence of an APC on a location that needs to be held is effective deterrence against enemy infantery. It will seek out to avoid that area. However it is one of the most dangerous tasks an apc can perform, because the longer an apc is in the same area, the more likely it is that the enemy deploys counter measures.

Anti armor.

Before engaging any kind of armor be aware of the capabilities of your apc. You do not want to find out too late that you can not harm the enemy. Most apcs are imprevious to heavy machinegun fire, but not all.
Even if a soft skinned vehicle is of no treath to you, it can be a big treath to infantery on the ground and should therefore be taken out as swiftly as an vehicle that is your match. Destroy about any enemy vehicle you come across, it costs the enemy resources.

If you have to go up against an apc that is your match in therms of armor and firepower team up with an friendly apc if possible. If it is not possible you should not seek out the apc on your own, who spots whom first is pure luck at this point. Rather have friendly units relay the position of the enemy apc to you.

Who starts shooting (and hitting) first usually wins. An apc under fire will likely try to get away rather than try to return fire. Again preferably engage the side or back of the apc.
When you chase down an apc be vary, he might flee torwards a position that is overwatched by infantery equipped with at or even a tank.

The apc in the desert.

On desert maps infantery in the open is pretty much open season for an APC, so are APCs for tanks though. Work closely with or AT if you are not at the top of the foodchain on that map. Depending on the topografy AT infantery might take position on high hills or on roofs, so watch out for spots that could be ambush positions.

The apc in the jungle.

In the jungle the apc can only move easily alongside the streets, enemy infantery can easily dive for cover. Its primary role is deterrence on such a map. Moving through the jungle can be done at a slow pace. If the apc keeps some distance and friendlies in front of him he can engage hostiles quite efficiently, who tend to overlook the apc beneath all the foliage. There is a good chance that LAT/HAT rounds detonate against a tree before reaching the apc if it is off the streets, however there i also enough cover for an AT soldier to try to sneak in an advantagous position.

The APC in the city.

A city offers a lot of cover for infantery. If hostiles are dugged in in a building they are hard to take out with armor. But the apc can still deliver surpressive fire and easily clear the streets.
The streets also allow the apc to ambush hostiles. Instead of engaging the enemy right away the apc can move alongside a road that is parallel to the enemies position and then ambush the squad in the back.
Cities offer plenty of spots for AT soldiers to target armor. The apc should not stop if he does not have to shoot. When he isnt looking for targets, or took out targets and the survivors made it into cover, he should fall back to friendly lines again.
As an apc a hard time making out hostiles in an urban enviroment, the driver should advise the squadleaders to call out when they are under fire, so that the apc can rush to the rescue.

On insurgency maps the apc should be maybe less aggressive and refrain from charing into an enemy position.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/Cassius_19/APCcity.png
The apc moves up a road that is parallel to the squad that called for support attacking the enemy squad in the rear.

_TeilyN_
2009-03-28, 05:16
In real life APCs are implemented to make sure infantery can keep up with the tanks over long distances.

no, just no.

and to be honest, I like mechanized inf squads a lot more than keeping APC in a different squad

Cassius
2009-03-28, 10:48
That must be because on the server you play teamspeak is not being used.

DankE_SPB
2009-03-28, 11:42
man, you need a religion, where teamspeak is god
i agree with teylin, mech inf can be very effective,
when apc in another squad it takes ages to communicate and you still cant direct it fire, only thing you can call for it, ask to suppress building, other way mumble(hint igi;))

Cassius
2009-03-28, 12:48
Teamspeak ventrillo mumble, whatever. The problem with mechanized infantery is that it supports only 4 men most of the time. Not a good thing if only 2 apcs are avaiable to all the team.

Inter squad communication worked out well on the server I played, but I can see how mechanized infantery is better on servers where intersquad communication is fail.

What I wanted to say is that teily has a point in preferring mechanized infantery over solo apcs, if communication between squads did not work out so well for him.

cyberzomby
2009-03-28, 13:47
Nice post with clear graphics. Good job for that :)

Overall I agree altough personally I would never send an APC in an urban setting. Or at least as close the enemy as your graphics illustrate.

Cassius
2009-03-29, 01:00
Use it or lose it :p

_TeilyN_
2009-03-29, 07:48
Cassius

Reading through your post again I can see you have the basics more or less down, however my pet peeve about this guide is sending an APC alone into unseen terrain. Especially in a city.

With mines, IEDs, bomb cars and RPGs scattered across the various maps/battle types I can't find a single reason that justifies moving an APC around alone in unseen terrain to flank an enemy.

I would however use the APC as fire support to pin the enemy, while the infantry makes the flanking manouver.

In RL APCs are used to make infantry mobile and for fire support, not for making flanking manouvers and the like. This is why infantry spend years training these various tactics.

I, myself, work as a combat engineer in a recon platoon in the danish army, and I have for a few years now. I do work a lot with armored vehicles, and I can tell you any armored vehicle commander would kick your ass if you sent him into unseen terrain with IEDs, RPGs and the like.

cyberzomby
2009-03-29, 10:44
My point exactly. I even dislike sending an APC in a city that has friendly's in the area as well. Most of the times when I see one go in on insurgency maps it gets blown up pretty quickly!

Cassius
2009-03-29, 11:48
Cassius

Reading through your post again I can see you have the basics more or less down, however my pet peeve about this guide is sending an APC alone into unseen terrain. Especially in a city.

With mines, IEDs, bomb cars and RPGs scattered across the various maps/battle types I can't find a single reason that justifies moving an APC around alone in unseen terrain to flank an enemy.

I would however use the APC as fire support to pin the enemy, while the infantry makes the flanking manouver.

In RL APCs are used to make infantry mobile and for fire support, not for making flanking manouvers and the like. This is why infantry spend years training these various tactics.

I, myself, work as a combat engineer in a recon platoon in the danish army, and I have for a few years now. I do work a lot with armored vehicles, and I can tell you any armored vehicle commander would kick your ass if you sent him into unseen terrain with IEDs, RPGs and the like.

Thats how an APC on a map like ramiel is supposed to be used, to cover an alley which friendly infantery can move down to the cache location, like at least 300m away from the cache marker.

I think on fallujah where there are less bomb cars and with rpgs being quite weak the apc can take more risks.

I can see how you think it is risky to send apcs in the city, but especially on ramiel there have been many situations where our infantery was without a chance without the support of the 2 strykers.

I guess it really depends on who you play with, if the apcs do not have sufficient protection from infantery or advance too fast they are easy prey, but if they stay back they can allow your troops to advance and finish and clear ambushes.
But whatever works, what works with the people I play with, does not necessarily work on public servers where random people play toegether.

Cavazos
2009-03-29, 12:55
If you have a skilled group of 8 players, Cassius strategy would work best. If you have just 8 regular public gamers, then take away 2 soldiers and the smaller 6 man squad would work best as your doing with what you have.

Cassius
2009-04-30, 14:23
If you have a skilled group of 8 players, Cassius strategy would work best. If you have just 8 regular public gamers, then take away 2 soldiers and the smaller 6 man squad would work best as your doing with what you have.

Personally I do not enjoy playing PR with pubbies in the first place I must say. If you do not have a good crew to pull off great teamwork and coordinated maneuvers, you have little more than yet another multiplayer shooter with the dated BF2 grafic.

Calling in airstrikes on infantery from pilots who aknowledge my existence is as much fun to me as shooting the enemy.

However there are other situations where it makes sense to go mechanized, mainly on the maps Kashan and Quinling, where so much armor is left over that the 2 infantery squads your team has can go mechanized.