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dbzao
2009-01-01, 22:28
I wanted to share some of the work on the logistics system of the mod.

This is the work of a bunch of people, R-DEVs and R-CONs, so I wont list them all here because I will probably forget some names.


Logistics Trucks

These are 2 man vehicles used to provide logistics support with supply crates and repairs (see bellow).

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Katarn
Texture: [R-DEV]Chuc
Export: [R-DEV]TrahnLee
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz & [R-DEV]dbzao

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4066/truck1ek6.jpg


Supply Crates

Deployed by the logistics trucks and heavy transport helicopters (default right-click), provides faction specific infantry ammunition and supplies for deploying Forward Outposts. You are not able to rearm or build FOs from enemy supply crates.

CREDITS:
Model: [R-CON]Mescaldrav
Texture: [R-CON]Mescaldrav
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz, [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Rhino

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7905/truckcrates1pu6.jpg


Repair "Crates"

Deployed by the logistics trucks (default X), can repair vehicles in close proximity. Only one allowed per truck but with unlimited "supply", so you can move up, deploy a new one, and the old one will disappear. No need to rearm them like the supply crates. For 0.85, the wrench will only be used for mine disposal.

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Rhino
Texture: [R-DEV]Pride
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz, [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Rhino

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2470/repair1pe8.jpg


Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot

Positioned mostly at main bases, provide vehicle ammunition and repairs. On carrier maps they will appear at forward control points once captured.

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav & I.N
Texture: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav, [R-DEV]Matrox, Alina Gal & [R-DEV]Pride
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-DEV]Jaymz & [R-DEV]dbzao

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8843/depot11ec5.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1079/depot21yh3.jpg


APCs

These are going to be the main transport vehicles for the conventional forces. No more jeeps spawning from Forward Outposts and transport trucks being used once and abandoned everywhere. This will require a higher level of teamwork between squads and APCs will need to start acting like infantry transport and stop being used as "light tanks". Jeeps and transport trucks will feature on maps that fit the scenario of the map.

CREDITS:
Coding: [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Jaymz

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6487/apcinfxi1.jpg


Kit Request

The only places to request kits will be the new Supply Crates (faction specific), the APCs and the Vehicle Depots. You will be able to request all types of kits (except crewman and pilot) from these places.

CREDITS:
Coding: [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Jaymz

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1915/apckitrp5.jpg


Interview

I did an interview/talk with elemanoel for the Project Reality Argentina community (http://www.projectreality.com.ar) where I talk about most of these changes. He asked questions in spanish and I answered them in english, so everyone here can probably follow it without many problems.

You can download the MP3 here:

http://gloryhoundz.com/prmm/users/dbzao/pr_argentina_interview.mp3

Eddiereyes909
2009-01-01, 22:32
Very good work

Rezza
2009-01-01, 22:36
Awesome work! Looking Forward...

IAJTHOMAS
2009-01-01, 22:37
Very nice. Going to add another dimension to the mod. can already envisage the APCs zooming off in to the distance and the abuse that follows! :P

S.P.C-[Reality]-
2009-01-01, 22:38
OMG that is some amazing work right there... :shock:

ReadMenace
2009-01-01, 22:39
HUMPTASTIC!!!

-REad

Chimpanzeeee
2009-01-01, 22:42
BTR60 for ivan?! Fantastic! And v.glad to see the back of the last vanilla crate!

Rudd
2009-01-01, 22:44
These are going to be the main transport vehicles for the conventional forces. No more jeeps spawning from Forward Outposts and transport trucks being used once and abandoned everywhere. This will require a higher level of teamwork between squads and APCs will need to start acting like infantry transport and stop being used as "light tanks". Jeeps and transport trucks will feature on maps that fit the scenario of the map.

I'm not sure I get it

The APCs are gonna be the primary transport, so will the number of jeeps that currently spawn at the start of the round be lowered?

the rest looks very nice

Pvt. Green
2009-01-01, 22:46
Awesome!

But does this mean that we can't request kits at Bunkers/Firebases/Rally Points?

Zimmer
2009-01-01, 22:47
I dont know I am not really fuzzed about the changes :/

Car(Hummers, jeeps etc) convoys was so much better and more epic on alot of maps especially ramiel, albasrah and those sort of maps.

Scot
2009-01-01, 22:49
Cool looks awesome! Can't wait, no rally point requests is slightly worrying, but hey, I wanna try it out :D

jOHNNYdOUBE
2009-01-01, 22:50
Very Nice.

Dougalachi
2009-01-01, 22:50
I'm not sure I get it

The APCs are gonna be the primary transport, so will the number of jeeps that currently spawn at the start of the round be lowered?

the rest looks very nice
that is what I got from the post, less jeeps and what not. Looks like I'm going to be seeing a lot more transportation squads around now.

Rangu
2009-01-01, 22:53
I love it!

[uBp]Irish
2009-01-01, 22:53
Very nice changes. I love the inclusion of the repair crates, since i always thought the repair vehicle of old was needed, but somehow needed to be refined. Are supply trucks still going to be limited to 2 crates per truck? if it's losing its "transport" capability, is it going to be made up in it by having more crates?

I'm excited to see the change towards heavier use of APCs. This will definitely be game changing.

=Romagnolo=
2009-01-01, 22:56
no more jeeps, really ? why ?!


Great interview there, can we brazilians do one sometime ?

LeChuckle
2009-01-01, 23:00
its going to be more important with a commander assigning apcs to the squads now
"fkin blue guys"

"BAIL OUT"

McBumLuv
2009-01-01, 23:01
This is amazing! going to bring such a huge and well needed change to PR. I like the Rearming stations and faction specific supplies as well as kit requesting especially. Even more proof of the DEV's ability to weed out those vBF 2 excuses for models :)

ArPeeGee
2009-01-01, 23:03
No more jeeps? :-/

Ghost1800
2009-01-01, 23:06
Faction specific ammo!? Hell yes, finally.

NickO
2009-01-01, 23:10
Very interesting

Conman51
2009-01-01, 23:11
i like it Except the supply crates that repair vehicles..i can see this being used top repair a tank that's camping a flag but other wise i like the rest!!!

Rudd
2009-01-01, 23:12
for faction specific ammo, if I pick up an enemy weapon, can I reload only off their crates?

Aquiller
2009-01-01, 23:12
L-O-V-E--I-T-!

Arnoldio
2009-01-01, 23:12
Perfect changes! Thats all I have to say.

NickO
2009-01-01, 23:16
Is the supply depot destructible?

Also unless games have dedicated transport squads the lack of transport will be big problem.. I really doubt apcs will be driving back and forward from main... Very fun.. Flying a transport helo is atleast alittle fun

CanuckCommander
2009-01-01, 23:16
for faction specific ammo, if I pick up an enemy weapon, can I reload only off their crates?

Haha i doubted. That'd be hard to code. Faction specific, not caliber specific, meaning if you pick up a MEC kit as a US soldier, you are STILL AMERICAN. lol

But FKING good question!

Conman51
2009-01-01, 23:17
wait but now can you request of rallies????.......if not taht will limit limited kits ALOT!!

SuperTimo
2009-01-01, 23:22
yay more new stuff to gloss over the extreme nerfing!

Dude388
2009-01-01, 23:23
Love the changes!

It makes me happy to see that the TEAMWORK bar is being raised with each release!

P.S. I'm worried that some player will just be stubborn with the APCs and not pick-up and transport INFANTRY from place to place and go off to "LIGHT TANK" as they do now, leaving us poor infantry to walk from place to place (bearing in mind no choppers are available at the time).

Dude388
2009-01-01, 23:26
Sorry for the double post (damn lack of EDIT button), but I forgot one question in the previous post.

Seeing as how these "LOGISTIC TRUCKS" will be of paramount importance on the the battlefield, what changes will be made to them?

By which I mean, will they be stronger HP wise? Perhaps faster respawn times? Or maybe even making the vehicle count for them much higher?

Thanks in advance.

mp5punk
2009-01-01, 23:28
wow that looks awesome to me, will those trucks be on ramiel?

SuperTimo
2009-01-01, 23:28
i imagine that all other weapons will be nerfed to ensure they do little damage to the Trucks

IceKiss
2009-01-01, 23:30
no troop transport truck! :S omg...

Chuc
2009-01-01, 23:30
The logistics trucks would have the same survivability as a jeep, or the normal transport trucks, which means that as a supply squad, one would need to make sure that your land route is clear as well as your destination, of which you'd use your APCs to do your heavy lifting.

Charity Case
2009-01-01, 23:31
Hmm, now people will have to work together... just like in real life.

Spec
2009-01-01, 23:34
Wait, I've a question about the kit request thingie.

If you can not request kits at the main base, but only at those repair stations, apc's and crates, how are you requesting kits at the beginning of a round on a carrier map as marine? Does a chopper have to drop a crate or the squad have to run down to the APC's and quickly grab a kit before they drive off? Or will one have to wait till the first flag is captured before getting kits? That might actually lower the request spam and the beginning of the round and make it easier for the commander to order specific squads to get their equipment, but it would drastically decrease the firepower of a squad before the first flag is taken. Well, usualy there wont be that much resistance at the first flag, but still...

Might I suggest making it possible to request kits from the main base, on carrier maps at least? I don't really see why not.

Robbi
2009-01-01, 23:34
yay more new stuff to gloss over the extreme nerfing!

explain?

Scot
2009-01-01, 23:34
i imagine that all other weapons will be nerfed to ensure they do little damage to the Trucks

You ever tried to shoot a truck to a standstill with 5.56 or 7.62?

SuperTimo
2009-01-01, 23:35
i shot a truck with a tank today twice and it wasn't destroyed

Vege
2009-01-01, 23:36
Will striker swim if "combat apc":s are about to die according to the interview?

Scot
2009-01-01, 23:37
i shot a truck with a tank today twice and it wasn't destroyed

Crappy Bf2 engine, it happens. But I'm pretty sure your tank hasn't been 'nerfed' so it can't kill a truck.

Robbi
2009-01-01, 23:40
You never know scot ;)

Dude388
2009-01-01, 23:42
Chuc;885710']The logistics trucks would have the same survivability as a jeep, or the normal transport trucks, which means that as a supply squad, one would need to make sure that your land route is clear as well as your destination, of which you'd use your APCs to do your heavy lifting.

Interesting....this WILL force a certain degree of caution for LOGISTICS drivers now. However another thought occurs looking over the pictures:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4066/truck1ek6.jpg

Will ALL maps only allow 4 LOGISTIC TRUCKS? Or will it vary from map to map?

P.S. Sorry for all the questions

Ainslie
2009-01-01, 23:44
Sweet! Just what PR needs. I like the idea for the supply/repair depots, it's always very vague as to where you can rearm/repair etc in a main base. Thanks R-DEV, and happy 2009!

-Ainslie :drillserg

=Romagnolo=
2009-01-01, 23:45
One last thing (I hope Emanoel sees it)


Brasil >>>> Argentina.

Scot
2009-01-01, 23:46
One last thing (I hope Emanoel sees it)


Brasil >>>> Argentina.


LOL! :lol:

M_Striker
2009-01-01, 23:46
Interesting changes. But a few questions as well.

1. Wrench can't be used to repair vehicles anymore? I mean, i don't see the point of these mobile repair posts. How will a damaged vehicle know where it is on the map? Why not just go to main base instead of scouring the whole map?

2. supply depots on forward outposts or FLAGS will spawn?

stoobywon
2009-01-01, 23:50
So can you still request kits from rally points and forward outposts?

Chuc
2009-01-01, 23:50
striker: They can choose to request the crate from another squad that's doing supply and repair runs, or you can choose to return to base and repair and rearm via the depot.

Supply depots at main bases where appropriate. Carrier maps will have them spawn in on the closest land based objective.

stoobywon
2009-01-01, 23:52
Sorry can't edit my old one, but can you still repair bridges with the wrench?

SuperTimo
2009-01-01, 23:52
All this stuff still looks like making everything perfect for infantry combat, at the expense of vehicles, don't get me wrong i enjoy infantry (mestia is one of my fave maps) but it seems every patch nerfs the vehicles and then removes them. PR is not soley about infantry and shouldnt be, neither was VBf2 about infantry the battlefield series is built on combined arms. mechanised infantry is not combined arms. I agree that apcs should be used as troop transport? but why only a BTR-60? we already have the BTR-90 and the BMP-3 that the Russians can use, so why give them an out of date APC with only a 14mm mg? The russians are one of the most powerful factions in the world why would they only use APCs with MGs?

i asume this means that the militia is also losing its tanks. .8 did a great job of slowing down the combat. it doesn't need slowing down anymore. I was really looking forward to .8 during .7 it looked really good, now its just seems that all the new kits maps and weapons are simply there to disguise bad gameplay.

ive heard somewhere that in the future there will be no cannons at all on apcs. realistic my backside.

Jaymz
2009-01-01, 23:58
I strongly encourage everybody reading my responses to these questions


I dont know I am not really fuzzed about the changes :/

Car(Hummers, jeeps etc) convoys was so much better and more epic on alot of maps especially ramiel, albasrah and those sort of maps.

You just listed a few of the maps that will have jeeps. Jeeps and transport trucks will be used exclusively on,

1. Insurgency maps

2. Infantry only map layers

There only purpose on conventional maps will be as "Recon" and they will only appear in very limited numbers.

i like it Except the supply crates that repair vehicles..i can see this being used top repair a tank that's camping a flag but other wise i like the rest!!!

It won't work, they're very fragile.

i imagine that all other weapons will be nerfed to ensure they do little damage to the Trucks

That's idle speculation. No such changes will be made.

Wait, I've a question about the kit request thingie.

If you can not request kits at the main base, but only at those repair stations, apc's and crates, how are you requesting kits at the beginning of a round on a carrier map as marine? Does a chopper have to drop a crate or the squad have to run down to the APC's and quickly grab a kit before they drive off? Or will one have to wait till the first flag is captured before getting kits? That might actually lower the request spam and the beginning of the round and make it easier for the commander to order specific squads to get their equipment, but it would drastically decrease the firepower of a squad before the first flag is taken. Well, usualy there wont be that much resistance at the first flag, but still...

Might I suggest making it possible to request kits from the main base, on carrier maps at least? I don't really see why not.

Good question.

The vehicle repair depots contain numerous supply crates already modelled on them (see screenshots). In main bases, these will act as a kit request point. On amphibious assault maps such as Muttrah and Jabal, there will be static supply crates available at the assaulting team's carrier.

i shot a truck with a tank today twice and it wasn't destroyed

Material problem. Fixed.

gazzthompson
2009-01-01, 23:58
can this Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot be destroyed ?

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 00:01
Chuc;885748']striker: They can choose to request the crate from another squad that's doing supply and repair runs, or you can choose to return to base and repair and rearm via the depot.

Supply depots at main bases where appropriate. Carrier maps will have them spawn in on the closest land based objective.

Ahh ok, but one more thing.

What will be the use for the engineer? I mean it seems now useless on the battlefield. A wrench that can take out mines which are rarely seen on a map in PR, and a slugshot that's so inaccurate you couldn't hit a cow at point blank range. Those are about the only features they have. Their explosives are gone as well. It's role on the battlefield is greatly decreasing ...

master of the templars
2009-01-02, 00:03
Sounds like a good theory, I'm interested to see how it plays out.

couple of questions...

1) on carrier maps how do you get kits before you cap the first flag and get your supply depot?

2)carrier maps - how do heli's get more crates before you cap first flag and get depot?

3) isn't it an unrealistic idea to get heli's to re arm at flags and not the carrier in the first place?

4) would the devs ever consider making the supply depot deployable?

Chuc
2009-01-02, 00:04
You guys assume too much.. ;)
Templars: There's still helipads remember, that can rearm helicopters.

master of the templars
2009-01-02, 00:05
sorry about double post but ignore some of my questions, i got ninja'd by like 5 posts

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 00:06
id say educated guess rather than assume actually.


and maybe the secretism is so we cant see the nerfing before its released.....

ghOst819
2009-01-02, 00:07
Great job guys,now i dont have to worry about getting land mined going all the way back to base.

Jaymz
2009-01-02, 00:08
All this stuff still looks like making everything perfect for infantry combat, at the expense of vehicles, don't get me wrong i enjoy infantry (mestia is one of my fave maps) but it seems every patch nerfs the vehicles and then removes them.

I agree that apcs should be used as troop transport? but why only a BTR-60? we already have the BTR-90 and the BMP-3 that the Russians can use, so why give them an out of date APC with only a 14mm mg? The russians are one of the most powerful factions in the world why would they only use APCs with MGs?

You clearly didn't see the Russian News post.

"Next up is the BTR-60 APC, which houses a powerful 14.5mm cannon. Thanks to EoD & [R-CON]Mescaldrav for the model, which [R-DEV]Chuc textured. [R-DEV]Undies is busy creating a BTR-80 which is a more realistic APC for the Russian Forces. Once completed, the BTR-80 will replace the BRT-60 in a later Project Reality release."

On top of this, our Russian Military Advisor (Nosferatu) informed us that in conflicts such as the ones we are portraying (Russia vs a small Militia), it is very typical for Russia to send older equipment (hence why in all the pictures we've seen of the recent Georgian conflict, all the Ruski troops are using AKM's instead of AK74M's, T72's instead of T90's etcetcetc)

This always tends to happen when a vastly superior force assaults another. This Generation Kill quote sums it up nicely,

"Why would you send a 5 million dollar tank when you can send a piece of crap humvee"

i asume this means that the militia is also losing its tanks.

Bullshit.

ive heard somewhere that in the future there will be no cannons at all on apcs. realistic my backside.

Again, bullshit.

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 00:19
well i stand corrected then, i will sample 0.85 then pass judgement, however, i dont think its coincidence that my clan (which has been playing PR since the evry early days .2 i think) has had all its older vets stop playing PR because they dont like the direction its going in, and it seems that quite a few of us are considering .85 to be the last judge of PR as to wether we stay or go.

Player intake is up for PR, but it seems player retention is poor.


Please don't take me the wrong way, the devs are fantastic at creating new maps, kits, vehicles and what have you and i respect them enormously for the previous releases of this free mod. i just don't want to see PR crash and burn for me and my friends or anyone else that plays PR.

ReaperMAC
2009-01-02, 00:27
Very cool.... though the repair crates need some work ;) :p

McBumLuv
2009-01-02, 00:30
I know there will always be this nitpicking about every this that and the other with News updates and Dev Journals, but you've gotta remember we really can't judge that far. Each pr release is thought of on a global scale, else it wouldn't coincide and would turn into crap gameplay with perhaps cool models and such. I've only experienced pr from 0.75 to 0.8, but I can tell you the transfer from BF 2 to pr is always amazing (I had tampered in it early 0.75, but then had to reformat, over which time I was back to bf 2 not liking the ~hour downloads). The main reason I think it's been such a great experience is because everything is worked on so that gameplay moves smoothly. We'll never know how 0.85 is until we play it, and our knowledge of its overall experience is only blurred by these posts, as we can only infer so much, and we'll never get the entire picture unless we see a complete changelog/play the game.

Blakeman
2009-01-02, 00:33
With all the new stuff it will be a major change for PR but I think a good one. I am still seeing full numbers on at night here and it is going strong. Some folks don't like certain changes, some folks do, 'thems tha brakes'.

sentinel
2009-01-02, 00:48
Interesting stuff... I can see myself driving a supply truck already. Moving support to the frontlines..

But when a apc/tank gets tracked/stuck in a diffucult spot it will need a major rescue operation to get it back, not just a stealthy engy with a wrench. People will resort in destroing own tracked armored units and wait for the respawn...

single.shot (nor)
2009-01-02, 00:51
i came all over the supplycrates

space
2009-01-02, 00:59
None of us know how it will work out till we try it, but I must admit, my heart dropped when I read this.

To encourage APC's to be used as transport is a great intention, but rather optimistic I feel.
On a map like sunset city atm, where there isnt enough trucks, people rarely go back to pick up their team mates. Swap the truck for an APC with a gun that can f**jk up the enemy, and theyre even less likely to go back and pick them up.

The problem is that a sq of six will all be passengers now relying on the goodwill of the "apc sq" If youre an apc driver it will be pretty boring going backwards and forwards. If youre the gunner, then considering the drops will not be in hot zones, I cant see what they will do?

Alternatively, each sq will try and get their own personal APC which will be to the detriment of the other squads that cant get one, and the sqs which do get one, will be left with only 4 men on foot.

The only way it could work imo is if theres enough apc's for every sq, which will totally change the gameplay, and as mentioned, lessen the number of infantry, and possibly encourage one manning again.

Secondly as someone else has mentioned, the engineer seems to be redundant now. Even more so, now that it looks like mines can now be destroyed by nades. I hope they are given something to make them relevent to the game.

On a more positive note, I like the idea of the resupply depots, and I like the idea of support trucks - in fact all the other changes really - I just have serious misgivings about all the transport trucks being removed.

elemanoel
2009-01-02, 00:59
EXCELENT CHANGES GUYS!!!!
Congratulations ... every time you guys make a new version is another impulse to hit on teamplay!

like CHE sayd... TEAMPLAY o MUERTE!!!
was it?
:P

One last thing (I hope Emanoel sees it)


Brasil >>>> Argentina.

oh!!!!
ejem...EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW... ;)

ill better keep sayuing that brasil is better... i wont see db upsed about this ;)

Blakeman
2009-01-02, 01:01
Interesting stuff... I can see myself driving a supply truck already. Moving support to the frontlines..

But when a apc/tank gets tracked/stuck in a diffucult spot it will need a major rescue operation to get it back, not just a stealthy engy with a wrench. People will resort in destroing own tracked armored units and wait for the respawn...

I'm guessing the supply trucks repair crate could help, but you might be putting the supply truck in harms way. Guess you will have to clear an area to fix something like real life now.

Question though: Do jeeps still spawn off of FOBs in all maps and is it just the static spawn main jeeps that are gone? What about special jeeps like the tow jeeps in qwai or are those covered by something else now?

It's like McDonald's, I'm lovin it.

Wheeter
2009-01-02, 01:03
On a map like sunset city atm, where there isnt enough trucks, people rarely go back to pick up their team mates. Swap the truck for an APC with a gun that can f**jk up the enemy, and theyre even less likely to go back and pick them up.


In the interview he says that "Light APCs" with 50 cals will be used for transport so that might solve this problem ;-)

bloodthirsty_viking
2009-01-02, 01:09
i think the reason peaple leave this is becuase its becomming more complicated, therefor more teamwork oreantaded/.
i think that with this, the tank squads, will not need the support squads, whitch will come to repair tank squads, while apc squads escort the reapair squads to the tank squads so the repair tanks dont go cabom....
and if i sad repair tanks, i really mean repair trucks=P
i dont feel like fixing it now!!

space
2009-01-02, 01:12
In the interview he says that "Light APCs" with 50 cals will be used for transport so that might solve this problem ;-)

That does change my opinion a bit - I didn't listen to the interview as I didn't fancy trying to decipher the Spanish questions. :D
Still - its a pretty boring job for the APC gunner, and I could see them getting one manned, but tbh I wouldnt worry to much about that if theyre being used as transport (each player is 3% of team, and Id see a transport gunner as a bit of a waste) How about if the gunner doesnt need a crewman kit and doesnt need to be on the same team, so that the squad being transported can use the gun?

HughJass
2009-01-02, 01:13
very intresting, i hope i will be able to play .85 to try these out.

just a question, how about rallies? i didn't find anything on whether you can request from rallies.

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 01:14
complication doesnt create team work. complication creates frustration. Forcing teamwork doesnt work. no one lazes for aircraft because its; complicated, usually doesnt work and is forced. I felt there was more team work when people could call in air support and expect it to work (.6)

why would people waste an apc trying to repair one when they can go out and shoot stuff?

Chuc
2009-01-02, 01:14
Think about it this way.. light transport APCs used in a majority of maps are the toughest thing there is when it comes to armour. A 50cal machine gun is all they would need to deal with virtually everything, such as jeeps, other APCs or fixed fighting positions.

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 01:15
That does change my opinion a bit - I didn't listen to the interview as I didn't fancy trying to decipher the Spanish questions. :D
Still - its a pretty boring job for the APC gunner, and I could see them getting one manned, but tbh I wouldnt worry to much about that if theyre being used as transport (each player is 3% of team, and Id see a transport gunner as a bit of a waste) How about if the gunner doesnt need a crewman kit and doesnt need to be on the same team, so that the squad being transported can use the gun?

Yeah one manning could become a problem here.

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 01:20
grr lousy lack of edit. the above was an example of forced teamwork which doesnt work with pubbers. people want to come on and have fun, not come on a drive for a while repatidly. if i wanted to drive something id hop on my motorbike. sure some people enjoy that kind of thing in game and fair play to them. but forcing it on the rest is not a good thing.

all the ideas sound great on paper but dont work in practice. i think the dev's get their definition of pubbers from Tactical gamer, not a normal server (TG is different as its a large team work based clan/gaming group which means mosts sqds have competent communicating SLs)

Alex6714
2009-01-02, 01:23
The thing I fear is that all we will be left with is infantry and a few 50 cal APCs.

I don´t see how changing the apcs this way will affect anything on public servers, I can see people soloing and using them to run people over now. But I guess we have to just find out....

space
2009-01-02, 01:25
I agree with timo on that one - Im not in a clan - I only play on public servers. Ive often typed out the question to my team "FFS - what does APC stand for!!!!" as Ive been stranded etc, so as I said its a good intention to encourage their greater use. Teamwork isnt always there on public servers and even if it is, asking two strangers to drive across Kashan for 8mins to pick you up, and then drive back again, is a big ask in gaming terms.

G.Drew
2009-01-02, 01:41
This sounds very very nice indeed.

daranz
2009-01-02, 01:44
The changes sound good to me, maybe with the exception of having to use crates to request kits. But then, I barely request kits as it is, so I could live with getting to use them even more rarely.

I do hope that we'll see plenty of APCs now that they are the primary transportation vehicle. A lot of people will have to adjust to the idea of being transported in APCs, and I predict a lot of rage as APC crews and infantry squads disagree on what a safe spot to drop infantry is.

I do hope that APCs aren't entirely relegated to a role of land choppers. My fear is that doing anything other than driving back and forth between main and combat will be frowned upon, and infantry won't be able to call upon an APC to support them with fire. I understand the idea of not making APCs light tanks, but I don't wanna see it go to the extreme the other way.

Blakeman
2009-01-02, 01:55
I do hope that APCs aren't entirely relegated to a role of land choppers. My fear is that doing anything other than driving back and forth between main and combat will be frowned upon, and infantry won't be able to call upon an APC to support them with fire. I understand the idea of not making APCs light tanks, but I don't wanna see it go to the extreme the other way.

I don't think it will be like that at all. Infantry will still be able to spawn at rallies and FOBs, this will just make the APCs 'get in the fight' and not be some sort of standoff light tank that just covers only from afar. APCs will now be part of a spearhead needed to get in there and provide support for infantry since they will need kit support and transport to far objectives.

I still want to know if Jeeps will spawn at FOBs still, or if that was taken out as well. I believe there was talk about AT emplacements at FOBs though?

Alan
2009-01-02, 01:59
I'm only seeing Ural trucks here. Will there be an Anglo-American canvas covered truck as well? Or will everyone be using the Ural in 0.85 (if only temporarily for some)

=EB=Reaper
2009-01-02, 02:00
im just looing at the images.

[IMG]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4066/truck1ek6.jpgP/IMG]

But if this is ment to be a convoy, whos driving the other two trucks?

Well any way this is a very nice update, cant wait to play the new update.

=EB=Reaper
2009-01-02, 02:00
Sorry couldnt edit my post.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4066/truck1ek6.jpg

Spec
2009-01-02, 02:06
Thats probably just a lack of testers at the time the screenshot was taken, nothing really important :p

General Dragosh
2009-01-02, 02:15
Wow, im really looking forward to this...

No more Super Engie :(

But i aint giving up :D

Skodz
2009-01-02, 02:18
Hmmm... these are lot of changes...

No more kit request at Rallypoints and forward operations base ?
No more humvee, landrover, etc. ? Why, is this even realistic ? I am no expert but light jeeps seems very popular in modern "assymetric" warfare...
I agree with the logistic only big truck tho but hopefully you are gonna remove the lil engi jeeps to replace it by the new logistic truck and make it so there are more jeeps then truck.

Sorry unable to edit...

If you guys remove completely jeeps (5 min respawn) and make it APC only (10 min respawn)

We already have problems with vehicles wasting, now we will have real tea party at main waiting for 1 apc to spawn for the entire team...

youm0nt
2009-01-02, 02:25
dbzao;885626']http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6487/apcinfxi1.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1915/apckitrp5.jpg
These screenshots look like something out of ArmA, especially the first one, it doesn't even look like BF2

sentinel
2009-01-02, 02:25
I do hope that we'll see plenty of APCs now that they are the primary transportation vehicle. A lot of people will have to adjust to the idea of being transported in APCs, and I predict a lot of rage as APC crews and infantry squads disagree on what a safe spot to drop infantry is.

Very good point... If the apc and infantry are in different the squad there will be trouble. APC with a full squad in the back stops to fire on inf and gets blown up by a HAT. 8 guys in a tin can is a dream target for AT, TOW and tank. I think I will be doing a lot of walking in 0.85, fine by me..

Skodz
2009-01-02, 02:26
Wut?? Engineer will not be able anymore to repair vehicles... wtf

Skodz
2009-01-02, 02:27
Way to make it even more useless...

Sorry unable to edit

sentinel
2009-01-02, 02:31
Engineers will be the ones driving the trucks I guess.. Would make sense. Officers should focus in leading, not trucking.

Skodz
2009-01-02, 02:32
The problem is we cannot trust anyone to drive as SL, most chances are they will crash it or run it straight into ennemy...

I know RL, leaders do not drive but this is just not possible in PR most of the time.

space
2009-01-02, 02:32
Ive listened to the interview now. There will be no more jeeps except on insurgency maps, and no more transport trucks on any maps - just light APC's and helis for transport.

The repairs will be from a "repair point" which is deployable from a logistics truck which anyone can drive. There can only be one "repair point on the map at one time.

From my experiences of any maps with alot of armour, the armour sq likes to keep repairs with them, so what is to stop them hogging the repair truck, so they have repairs close to them, following them round and the rest of the team dont?

Also the logistics truck is drivable by anyone, so considering that the new changes will possibly limit transport more than it is now :o - what is there to stop someone taking a logistics truck as a one man transport to the front line, and then abandoning it?

Skodz
2009-01-02, 02:34
A "repair crate" dropped on the ground is much more realistic repairing a vehicle then a human repairing it with a tool... Obviously...

Spaceman is right, this change is aweful seriously. Ingeneer repairing vehicles is much better.

R-Dev think PR Players are mature enough to handle such gameplay change... You should play more of your own game.

sentinel
2009-01-02, 02:43
Ou man... Can be driven by any one?! So the Officer takes the truck and a one guy with a shovel. Drives to a spot places FB and that one guy builds the FB. while the Officer sits in the AA and the rest of the squad travels on foot. I hope I wont be the guy building.

Nothing changes..

Conman51
2009-01-02, 02:45
i think the argument that there will be no team work with the APC squads is dumb because when a squad makes a APC squad in the next patch they will have to know that they have given them selves up for the team and now they are a transport

the only reason some people see the APC as a mini tank is because that's how they were in bf2....but with if the team wants to win they will transport people.....the devs broke other bf2 mentalities like medic spam and run n gun w/ no cover and even lone wolfing...so they can fix the APC light tank too

i don't like some of the changes but its not enough for me not to like PR and i didn't like some of the changes BEFORE i played .8...but i trust them and that it will weed out the weak and help keep the team players

Zrix
2009-01-02, 02:45
Looking good!

All of the changes sounds great, really like the "new" role of the APC.

I assume the repair crate repairs so slowly that its no use standing next to it and tank damage, like in vBF2?

Incomplete Spork
2009-01-02, 02:50
I agree. Devs don't take this as a personal hit but you don't seem to play many normal games the way you are making these changes. Even though to play pr you do need some smarts but all you are doing now is screwing the game over to where the only fun in it is to play with your clan or in a tournament.

Look, you can't fix stupid. There will always be people soloing these tanks and these new logistics things to the front lines. I know the game is Project Reality but I also like to have, not have a chore playing the game. I'm gonna hold off talking about the new PR till I actually play it but this just seems like it's even harder to play in a pub game.

sentinel
2009-01-02, 02:52
Looking good!
I assume the repair crate repairs so slowly that its no use standing next to it and tank damage, like in vBF2?

Lets hope so.. Also why not take it to a ho nuva leva by making the engineer wrench only work while repair station in nearby. In fact make engineers only thing to repair vehicles, so that the tanks squad would need their own pit crew. Instead of making the repair station a self-repairing station.

Conman51
2009-01-02, 02:56
Lets hope so.. Also why not take it to a ho nuva leva by making the engineer wrench only work while repair station in nearby. In fact make engineers only thing to repair vehicles, so that the tanks squad would need their own pit crew. Instead of making the repair station a self-repairing station.

tahts actaully waht i kinda wanted..but the only thing is taht it takes more infantry off the filed and puts them behind a tank

azn_chopsticks_boi
2009-01-02, 02:58
Theres a differents between APC and IFV too :)

scandhi
2009-01-02, 02:59
i guess they'll balance out the APCs to earlier number of trucks etz..
I am just curious on the kit request thing. lots of driving for the truck dropping of crates everywhere. LOTS.
But now an ambush on the supply lines will hurt!! :twisted:

OkitaMakoto
2009-01-02, 03:00
Theres a difference in simply giving up on the PR player base by giving them exactly what the bottom of the barrel* would seemingly force us to do and striving to push PR more and more away from BF2's gameplay.

The DEV team will continue to raise the bar and ask that the player base, the mature player base, continue to move up with us farther and farther from original BF2. We did it with Insurgency mode, we did it with rally points, we did it with removing SL spawn, we did it with removing all but the most basic kits from the initial spawn screen.

You guys act like we never play the game, but did you ever think that we realize these problems with the current gameplay and are simply not letting those few bad rounds, or immature players, from ruining the way the game was meant to be played.

Will there be tards? Always. Will the majority of the players get used to these changes and make PR better for it? Yes.


* and please note, Im note referring to any of you here as "bottom of the barrel" I mean those who steal assets and refuse to work as a team, etc

Tirak
2009-01-02, 03:04
Why is it that every time someone asks about Artillery or more seats on a tank or more and better aircraft, we always get the same line trotted out about "Taking men from the battlefield" then you look over here and they want to turn most of the team into support elements instead of combat. You've nerfed the engineer to nothingness, you've taken away any form of light recce, and you've taken away any ability for a squad to operate independently. I get that you want to make the game more teamwork oriented, I really do, but you're forcing teamwork. You're looking at things and saying "Players aren't doing exactly what I want so I'll make it impossible to do anything unless they do exactly what I want" instead of allowing the player to work with what they have and come up with their own ideas.

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 03:07
I agree with timo on that one - Im not in a clan - I only play on public servers. Ive often typed out the question to my team "FFS - what does APC stand for!!!!" as Ive been stranded etc, so as I said its a good intention to encourage their greater use. Teamwork isnt always there on public servers and even if it is, asking two strangers to drive across Kashan for 8mins to pick you up, and then drive back again, is a big ask in gaming terms.

Hey, I mean comon, if we're going to talk about Kashan, we'll use transport helicopters and not APC's to ferry people across the vast deserts. :p

Anyways, it's perfectly logical to assume there will not be any teamwork between APCs and Infantry. Because there is none now, and there never has been. (i'm talking about the average public game) Those that say people who take an APC will have to know that they need to transport the infantry, aren't right (conman:p) because ur always going to get that noob who wants to go super uber rambo with his APC.

I played a game today where my squad ran to get transport/a kit from the APC, and he looked at us, and just sped away from us. If these changes are going to fix that, I'm definitely for them.

McBumLuv
2009-01-02, 03:08
OkitaMakoto;885912']Theres a difference in simply giving up on the PR player base by giving them exactly what the bottom of the barrel* would seemingly force us to do and striving to push PR more and more away from BF2's gameplay.

The DEV team will continue to raise the bar and ask that the player base, the mature player base, continue to move up with us farther and farther from original BF2. We did it with Insurgency mode, we did it with rally points, we did it with removing SL spawn, we did it with removing all but the most basic kits from the initial spawn screen.

You guys act like we never play the game, but did you ever think that we realize these problems with the current gameplay and are simply not letting those few bad rounds, or immature players, from ruining the way the game was meant to be played.

Will there be tards? Always. Will the majority of the players get used to these changes and make PR better for it? Yes.


* and please note, Im note referring to any of you here as "bottom of the barrel" I mean those who steal assets and refuse to work as a team, etc

Well said. I've got to listen to the interview right now. I've just played a game of Qwai where there was an APC squad whoring around with China's APCs (ironically our only transport because many other vehicles were on the front lines, out of reach to the infantry in need). One of the players kept complaining and complaining about those bloody infantry squads that weren't doing anything, meanwhile this guy downright refuses to give transportation with his APC because it's "not there for transport, that's what trucks are for" :|

yes, there will always be smacktards, but giving them less of a reason to act as such will also discourage them and allow servers better administering, thus better gameplay.

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 03:11
I will have to see them in action, but on paper, I am not excited about the reliance on APCs for transport. First, I really like Hummers and Vodniks, so it stinks that there's going to be less, but I'm afraid that without them for transport, there's going to be more reliance on walking everywhere, rather than on the APCs.

I still can't wait for .85.

Skodz
2009-01-02, 03:11
I agree. Devs don't take this as a personal hit but you don't seem to play many normal games the way you are making these changes. Even though to play pr you do need some smarts but all you are doing now is screwing the game over to where the only fun in it is to play with your clan or in a tournament.

Look, you can't fix stupid. There will always be people soloing these tanks and these new logistics things to the front lines. I know the game is Project Reality but I also like to have, not have a chore playing the game. I'm gonna hold off talking about the new PR till I actually play it but this just seems like it's even harder to play in a pub game.

totally agree 100% with everything.

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 03:14
I meant to ask, are the vehicle loadouts on any maps being tweaked? To add more APCs?

Dougalachi
2009-01-02, 03:19
Ive listened to the interview now. There will be no more jeeps except on insurgency maps, and no more transport trucks on any maps - just light APC's and helis for transport.

The repairs will be from a "repair point" which is deployable from a logistics truck which anyone can drive. There can only be one "repair point on the map at one time.

From my experiences of any maps with alot of armour, the armour sq likes to keep repairs with them, so what is to stop them hogging the repair truck, so they have repairs close to them, following them round and the rest of the team dont?

Also the logistics truck is drivable by anyone, so considering that the new changes will possibly limit transport more than it is now :o - what is there to stop someone taking a logistics truck as a one man transport to the front line, and then abandoning it?
From what I understood, unless there is only one repair vehicle in the map, there can be more than one repair station up at one time. In other words, one repair station PER vehicle. Also, I thought he only said reduced numbers of HMMWV, but I don't remember exactly.

Additionally, in regards to ground transport, from what i heard in the interview, the chinese still do not have any kind of stryker-esque vehicle (VN-3) in this version and no mention was made of a replacement for the MEC (new vodnik).

space
2009-01-02, 03:27
In the interview DB does say there will be more APC's so there wont necessarily be any more lack of transport than there is now (except trucks have 5mins spawn = apcs have 10 min spawn)

The main problem is we will see alot less infantry on the field - this cant be good when PR is moving towards larger maps - and the problem gets amplified on less than full servers.

I hope the suggestion that the APC position can be used without a crewman kit, and by people from different squads will be considered.

PS Doug - in the interview he said one repair station per team, which is placed by the logistics truck that anyone can drive.

EDIT : I hope the suggestion that the APC gunner position can be used without a crewman kit, and by people from different squads will be considered.

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 03:35
PS Doug - in the interview he said one repair station per team, which is placed by the logistics truck that anyone can drive.

There is no repair station. There are repair crates and repair depots. Which one are you talking about?

McBumLuv
2009-01-02, 03:38
^the reasoning? Not anything against it, but what would it improve?

anyways, not yet properly addressed, but will faction specific supplies be faction gun specific? probably even harder to code, but it would be an awesome improvement too.

Makes people think twice when picking up an enemy kit on whether or not they'll be able to resupply.

Edit, my ^reasoning? was directed at Spacemanc, stupid lack of edit :?

Dougalachi
2009-01-02, 03:52
I was talking about the repair crates that are dropped by logistics vehicles, of which, according to (at least) the screenies from fools road, there will be multiple. I find it hard to believe that there can only be one crate per side even with four vehicles. He is not completely clear as to the nature of whether there will be just one globally in existance for the whole side or just one per each logistics vehicle in the map, so don't go jumping to conclusions.

sentinel
2009-01-02, 03:53
Why is it that every time someone asks about Artillery or more seats on a tank or more and better aircraft, we always get the same line trotted out about "Taking men from the battlefield" then you look over here and they want to turn most of the team into support elements instead of combat. You've nerfed the engineer to nothingness, you've taken away any form of light recce, and you've taken away any ability for a squad to operate independently. I get that you want to make the game more teamwork oriented, I really do, but you're forcing teamwork. You're looking at things and saying "Players aren't doing exactly what I want so I'll make it impossible to do anything unless they do exactly what I want" instead of allowing the player to work with what they have and come up with their own ideas.

WORD! What if I don't wanna go with a 6 man squad with 50% useless human beings (smacktards)? What if I only want 3 man squad with people that I know and trust? Then there aren't any small vehicles to do recon/ambush/Sniping/or apc hunting. Kinda takes aspects out of the game. So when we need to fall back after a successful ambush we have to wait for "mom" to pick us up. Well we can always walk and there is always that guy with a littlebird flying over your squad revealing your plan to the enemy... Nice

[T]waylay00
2009-01-02, 03:54
Please tell us that Humvees will respawn at the main base on Ramiel (or any insurgent) more frequently now, since the FOBs can't spawn them!

I've had a blast doing effective, rapid support, Humvee convoys here recently.

sentinel
2009-01-02, 03:59
waylay00;885967']Please tell us that Humvees will respawn at the main base on Ramiel (or any insurgent) more frequently now, since the FOBs can't spawn them!

I've had a blast doing effective, rapid support, Humvee convoys here recently.

yeah.. And Ramiel is a BIG map. :)

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 04:01
EDIT : I hope the suggestion that the APC gunner position can be used without a crewman kit, and by people from different squads will be considered.

Um.. you're reasoning for this? This will definitely mean more single seating. APC's should still be coordinated somewhat...

Also, these changes WILL make pub games harder. Pub games are always frustrating. That's why I only play with my clan, or buds, because, you're always gonna get those "noobs". On the bright side, these changes might scare off the "noobs" making the game to complicated. But we'll see.

Jaymz
2009-01-02, 04:02
Don't worry about Jeeps on Insurgency maps. You'll have plenty.

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 04:06
I was talking about the repair crates that are dropped by logistics vehicles, of which, according to (at least) the screenies from fools road, there will be multiple. I find it hard to believe that there can only be one crate per side even with four vehicles. He is not completely clear as to the nature of whether there will be just one globally in existance for the whole side or just one per each logistics vehicle in the map, so don't go jumping to conclusions.


dbzao;885626']Only one allowed per truck

You're right Doug. One per truck, not per team.

Hearing db talk about the APCs in the interview actually soothes my fears about how the APCs will be used. His voice has a calming effect;). Looking forward to .85 quite a bit!

GreedoNeverShot
2009-01-02, 04:42
That will fix a lot of the problems, but will create varieties of new ones or add to the current ones. I haven't played with it yet, so I won't say anything more than that.

Airsoft
2009-01-02, 04:54
no more rally point kit requests?

CodeRedFox
2009-01-02, 05:07
read much AS? :-P

Airsoft
2009-01-02, 05:16
it's ASS and no not really :p

[uBp]Irish
2009-01-02, 05:20
this is pretty much the same cannon fodder we've had to experience with every release of PR. from .4 to now, every change has made people mad in some way shape or form. From deviation changes, to removing SL spawn abilities, to the removal of even engineer C4.

The fact is, it doesnt matter because you will get over it, adapt, or leave. Stop complaining about changes that you haven't even got to play with yet. You're worrying about what you're experiencing now and applying it to something that hasnt even been released yet. The dev's could change 100 things from now till release. We've already seen all the chances from the 3 editions of the changelogs they've posted. Stop crying about what you havent even experienced yet.

If anything, thank the dev's for trying something new and getting away from the repetitive gameplay that is applied to maps over and over again. Anyone can storm through Kashan in a hummvee smashing through the gates at bunkers. Like every other release it's now the time to accept the changes that the dev's are giving us and find a way to make it work.

Just like in every release, this game is evolving from what vbf2 was, to something that requires us to actually accept situations and rely on people. I know the problems we all have with public players that apply a vbf2 mentality to PR. I want to believe the Dev's also know this, so for once we should at least put some faith in the Dev's to see where they are taking PR, and us, as a community with it. We dont even know what .85 is going to have in it, since noone of us have ever played it. Take your fears to when it is released. The dev's dont need "i told you so's". Just support. This is still there game. Accept or get over.

Conman51
2009-01-02, 05:24
Irish;886021']this is pretty much the same cannon fodder we've had to experience with every release of PR. from .4 to now, every change has made people mad in some way shape or form. From deviation changes, to removing SL spawn abilities, to the removal of even engineer C4.

The fact is, it doesnt matter because you will get over it, adapt, or leave. Stop complaining about changes that you haven't even got to play with yet. You're worrying about what you're experiencing now and applying it to something that hasnt even been released yet. The dev's could change 100 things from now till release. We've already seen all the chances from the 3 editions of the changelogs they've posted. Stop crying about what you havent even experienced yet.

If anything, thank the dev's for trying something new and getting away from the repetitive gameplay that is applied to maps over and over again. Anyone can storm through Kashan in a hummvee smashing through the gates at bunkers. Like every other release it's now the time to accept the changes that the dev's are giving us and find a way to make it work.

Just like in every release, this game is evolving from what vbf2 was, to something that requires us to actually accept situations and rely on people. I know the problems we all have with public players that apply a vbf2 mentality to PR. I want to believe the Dev's also know this, so for once we should at least put some faith in the Dev's to see where they are taking PR, and us, as a community with it. We dont even know what .85 is going to have in it, since noone of us have ever played it. Take your fears to when it is released. The dev's dont need "i told you so's". Just support. This is still there game. Accept or get over.


yes agreed

Jjjootjohn
2009-01-02, 05:24
What will become of Op. Barracuda? Because whenever I play US, I always end up grabbing a humvee from a firebase, since the Chinese has quite a bit of .50 cal. mounted vehicles which need taken care of, and a chopper is no good (For me, atleast) to transport from the ground, to another location on the ground. Most of the time, you need to enter with a "bang", or atleast, undetected, and a Huey versus 6 Nanjings and FAV's is not the right kind of bang :(

I can see Barracuda turning into Chinese kill fest and US carrier party as long as there's only choppers.

GreedoNeverShot
2009-01-02, 05:25
The future of PR:

You must be at 2 repair crates to request your medic kit

Get in vehicle.

You must have another person in your squad to deploy repair crates

squad member gets in.

You must have crewman kit to operate this vehicle

requests crewman.

you must wait 30 seconds for the engine to warmup before you can drop the crates

waits 30 seconds and tries to request crewman kit.

you cannot request kit so soon after your last

waits a minute.

you must have 3 people in your squad to request medic kit

gets new person.

I'm sorry I have already issued all of the medic kits

BF2 CTD

end

jk :p

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 05:25
A "repair crate" dropped on the ground is much more realistic repairing a vehicle then a human repairing it with a tool... Obviously...

Spaceman is right, this change is aweful seriously. Ingeneer repairing vehicles is much better.

R-Dev think PR Players are mature enough to handle such gameplay change... You should play more of your own game.

How can you complain about a change without ever expriencing it?

Chuc
2009-01-02, 05:27
Well john, because there will be no more jeep spawning from FOs, you won't have to worry about icecream truck convoys anymore. There will be, I believe FAVs, but they are paper, even when it comes to small arms.

Conman51
2009-01-02, 05:28
What will become of Op. Barracuda? Because whenever I play US, I always end up grabbing a humvee from a firebase, since the Chinese has quite a bit of .50 cal. mounted vehicles which need taken care of, and a chopper is no good (For me, atleast) to transport from the ground, to another location on the ground. Most of the time, you need to enter with a "bang", or atleast, undetected, and a Huey versus 6 Nanjings and FAV's is not the right kind of bang :(

I can see Barracuda turning into Chinese kill fest and US carrier party as long as there's only choppers.

i don't think these changes are going to affect op bar much..in fact i think they will remover some of the Chinese jeeps n crap...if you see one..call in a huey rocket strike

Jjjootjohn
2009-01-02, 05:30
But isn't there still quite a bit of FAV's spawning at their main base? I thought there was atleast 4-6 vehicles, but I'm probably wrong.

[uBp]Irish
2009-01-02, 05:35
If you're worried about Barracuda all that needs to be done is to increase the map scale a bit more. M Warren in one of his suggestions that was about 5 pages long in the suggestion section talked about how if they just increased the amount of water on the map it would allow the Huey's more space to fly. As of now, if you're chinese and have a 180 degree arc facing towards the carrier with AA/.50 cal weapons/FAVs/Ice Cream Trucks, you're pretty much going to annihilate any helo making it's way towards the island since the distance from the Island to the Out of Bounds is still within AA Lock range.

But this isnt about Barracuda. Dev's have probably already looked into it. Let's give them a little bit more credit.

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 05:48
...if you see one..call in a huey rocket strike

....lol :roll:

ostupidman
2009-01-02, 06:29
I like the teamwork aspect of the changes....but what the hell good are FOBs now. I may be missing something, because I do miss things much of the time, but what use are our FOBs now? You took our ability to reload off of them, which I still hate and think is very unrealistic. Now it looks like our ability to request kits off of them is gone. Which means now instead of well equipped soldiers we just get a bunch of riflemen getting slaughtered trying to fend off the influx of APCs running around. It seems that FOBs are just group rallies now. Why don't we go ahead and take the ability to spawn on them away too, seems only fitting.

Teek
2009-01-02, 06:39
I played in a APC squad on Muttra recently and we used them as light tanks. If one APC went down, the crew would re-spawn in and act as dismounts for the surviving APC, and it was much appreciated. I myself would have liked to support our troops taking and holding flags, but that was not our job.

I am confidant that APC crews will transport and assist Inf squads as mechanized infantry and APCs will not be Battle Taxis nor Light Tanks.

Some pictures of effective Mech Inf action in previous versions to jog the memories of thous who are ignorant of it.
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/7201/screen088hb2.th.jpg (http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen088hb2.jpg)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/139/screen170qj2.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen170qj2.jpg)

Jaymz
2009-01-02, 07:00
Why is it that every time someone asks about Artillery or more seats on a tank or more and better aircraft, we always get the same line trotted out about "Taking men from the battlefield" then you look over here and they want to turn most of the team into support elements instead of combat.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/curlymaboo/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Funny_Baby.gif




Let's see,

There are 2 Logistics Trucks per map and they each have 2 seats. That's a grand total of 4 people running Logistical Support out of a possible 32 players per team.

There are, however, a few maps that have an exception to this rule. Large scale armoured conflicts (Kashan being a prime example) will have 4 Logistics Trucks per team. This is to accommodate for the resource consuming nature of MBT's/IFV's (you have to bare in mind that the burden of field repairs now lies with Logistics Trucks).

So, even if we give you the benefit of a doubt and assume we are on Kashan Desert 64 with,

1 x Commander
4 x Logistical Personnel
2 x Transport Helicopter Pilots

That's 7 players out of a possible 32 that are partaking in a "non-combat role". Not even 1/4th of the team.

Agent_mOe
2009-01-02, 07:16
Good morning and Happy New Year to evryone,

in my very humble opinion these changes sound very interestng but i'm not sure in which way they will change the gameplay to a better or worse one. This we'll know after we tried. So lets just sit tight and wait for .85. I cant wait for release. I'm so excited :-D :-D

Deer
2009-01-02, 07:23
Alex6714;885830']
I don´t see how changing the apcs this way will affect anything on public servers, I can see people soloing and using them to run people over now. But I guess we have to just find out....

I completely agree, game is already too hard for 90% of players, making it harder to move around by forcing players to use APCs as team's only transports will make it even more frustrating, i can see myself playing tetris while waiting for my guy to auto-walk to its destination from mainbase countless times while APCs are being used on players personal needs. Plus if players wont even use trucks to transport ppls between mainbase and battlezones more than once per truck(except rarely), why on earth they would use combat-able APCs to do that.

The change is very cool and fun and interesting.. and the fact that it will work so rarely in public servers..

To make APCs realistic, you would need to have squad leader driving the APC, and squad is with him in the APC as infantry, and when they go into combat infantry will step out and they fight together with APC... This is currently not very possible because every dead squad mate is spawning to mainbase because SL cant set up rallypoints while hes crewman. And if he wouldnt be driver it would be way too difficult to lead mechanized infantry squad(thats why noone is doing this tactic). Would be nice if players could spawn on squad leader IF the squadleader is in APC. Or then just make it possible to make rallypoints with crewman-kit, or make it possible to drive APC with officer-kit.

That would create realistic infantry+APC combat work among public players, if possible it would be good to have amount of spawning into APC limited, just like amount of spawning on rallypoints is limited (it gets destroyed if squad is dying too much near it), total of 4 spawns allowed per 10minutes for the APC spawn should be nice, if squad members die/spawn more than that, spawn is removed for 10minutes or so? Sounds complicated but should be doable atleast somehow by using code that is already being used.

Engineer
2009-01-02, 07:25
shock and awe

Rhino
2009-01-02, 07:41
Edited first post to add credits to each item.

Logistics Trucks

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Katarn
Texture: [R-DEV]Chuc
Export: [R-DEV]TrahnLee
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz & [R-DEV]dbzao


Supply Crates

CREDITS:
Model: [R-CON]Mescaldrav
Texture: [R-CON]Mescaldrav
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz, [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Rhino


Repair "Crates"

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Rhino
Texture: [R-DEV]Pride
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Jaymz, [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Rhino


Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot

CREDITS:
Model: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav & I.N
Texture: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav, [R-DEV]Matrox & [R-DEV]Pride
Export: [R-DEV]Rhino
Coding: [R-DEV]Rhino, [R-DEV]Jaymz & [R-DEV]dbzao


APCs

CREDITS:
Coding: [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Jaymz


Kit Request

CREDITS:
Coding: [R-DEV]dbzao & [R-DEV]Jaymz

may have missed a few ppl out.


Is the supply depot destructible?

Also unless games have dedicated transport squads the lack of transport will be big problem.. I really doubt apcs will be driving back and forward from main... Very fun.. Flying a transport helo is atleast alittle fun

no, its a static on the main base / beach.

can this Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot be destroyed ?

no, its a static at the main base.

Sounds like a good theory, I'm interested to see how it plays out.

couple of questions...

1) on carrier maps how do you get kits before you cap the first flag and get your supply depot?

2)carrier maps - how do heli's get more crates before you cap first flag and get depot?

3) isn't it an unrealistic idea to get heli's to re arm at flags and not the carrier in the first place?

4) would the devs ever consider making the supply depot deployable?

1. choppers can drop in supply crates etc.

2. helis reload at the carrier.

3. helis can not reload at a vehicle depo and they are only at the main base or on the beach.

rangedReCon
2009-01-02, 07:53
Sounds great in theory, let's hope that it translates well into pub games.

Polka
2009-01-02, 08:06
Cool bohnen

Conman51
2009-01-02, 08:12
i DONT KNOW WHY PEOPLE SAY APCS WILL BE GOING BACK AND FORTH TO BASE LIKE TRUCKS!!!!..the logistics trucks will do that..bringing the supply crates to the front and supply crates bring..limited kits... apcs will NOT HAfE to go back and forth because rallys are usually set and teh infantry can stay by teh APC even if they die becuase they set rallys


today i had a round on ramiel with some clanmates ...all we had was 6 people...we set rallys (which pubbers can do too) and when teh dismounted infantry got shot or wounded the medic got to them and healed them (yes pubbers do this too) and if tehy died they spawned at the rally which was in our combat zone of fighting where we assulted 3 or 4 casches....the apc lasted a long ime and teh dismounted infantry had few deaths...THE ONLY REASON THE APC HAD TO GO BACK TO BASE WAS FOR AMMO!!!...some peolpe underestimate the common pubber...the smacktards will die off and teh team players will stay..no loss to PR...i think the community is preety big right now and in taht community THERE ARE SOME SMACKTARDS...i admit it but they eventually leave or get less common

P.S. yes i play with pubbers alot and i have seen them use teamwork w/o the SLs in TS

you guys make it seem like they got rid of rallys or something

Lt Mic
2009-01-02, 08:22
first 4 points are nice changes
but the 5 point (about no jeeps) is a
very very very very very very very very very very very bad idea
pub playing=unpossible for inf sq's

more players will be more frustrated and they might stop playing PR or Noobs which just started pr won't want to play it for longer time...

point 6: kit request? will we be able to request kits from RP? or we must run for all map to find crate and request it there?

RedAlertSF
2009-01-02, 08:59
Love this all, but I'm not sure about kit request changes..

sn1p3rslippinz
2009-01-02, 09:35
Changes sound fine to me :D

Thanks Devs (Y)

_casualtyUR
2009-01-02, 09:36
Excellent, can wait for the deployable medical bay, too.

jbgeezer
2009-01-02, 09:38
Nice crates! And the new repair depot looks so real.

Outlawz7
2009-01-02, 09:39
Now all you need to do is replace the UAV trailer with something that actually looks like a command post :lol: :p

Also if APCs are intended to be the main transport, will Light AT deal more damage to them? Or does the same logic of 'infatry vs. infatry, vehicles vs. vehicles' still apply?

And what maps will feature jeeps? IMO at least Militia should keep their technical and the coalition forces on Insurgency maps should keep the Humvee and Land Rover, so Insurgents won't have to deal with loads of armored IFVs shooting them to crap from 400m away.

Outlawz7
2009-01-02, 09:42
Irish;886034']talked about how if they just increased the amount of water on the map

The map is an island surrounded by eight 4 Km2 terrain meshes full of water, what else do you need?
M.Warren was probably talking about expanding the combat zone into surrounding terrain so helicopters could fly all around the map without getting out of bounds.

jbgeezer
2009-01-02, 09:44
More water is cool:mrgreen:

Rhino
2009-01-02, 09:47
Nice crates! And the new repair depot looks so real.

hehe, was hard enough to pump the MAs to get some good refs and info out of them, we went though like 6 different designs for it hehe. It's not 100% realistic but its pretty good representation of what its really like :)

Outlawz;886138']Now all you need to do is replace the UAV trailer with something that actually looks like a command post :lol: :p

That is in the long term plan, just something that's low priority.

Surround
2009-01-02, 09:55
HOLY SHIT!! wow amazing

vilhelm123
2009-01-02, 09:56
Love this all, but I'm not sure about kit request changes..

Ditto.

Rallys makes sense, but surely firebases and bunkers should stay able?
And yes i know crates should be near but one nade will destory them, it just shouldn't be that easy to remove weapons from the other team.

Also if we are to see more of apcs in future then are we likey to see any increase in AT kits?

jbgeezer
2009-01-02, 09:57
Rhino;886147']hehe, was hard enough to pump the MAs to get some good refs and info out of them, we went though like 6 different designs for it hehe. It's not 100% realistic but its pretty good representation of what its really like :)




Well, its looks very realistic to me, btw will the wrench be removed from the engy kit after this, or will he have in case a tank looses mobility. You could make so that the engineer could only fix mobility problems to get the vehicle back to the repair depot for full repairs. What do you think?

Oak
2009-01-02, 10:00
I really, really like the new supply crate model. This is amplified by how pathetic the current model is.
I really like the move to repair depots and repair "crates". I also like the removal of repairs from the engineer - it always struck me as unrealistic (yes, I know, so are medics, but let's leave that alone for the moment). This also means the engineer will probably focus more on breaching and destroying obstacles, which is far more fun than slowly repairing stuff. Just need to find some solution for bridges.
I like how you can request kits at crates now, but I'm unsure about no longer being able to request kits at FOBs or rallys - that means newly-spawned troops cannot take specialized kits. I just hope that as compensation, some kits will move to the list of spawn-requestable ones.
I hate the current "APCs used as light tanks" situations and I really like the mechanized infantry gameplay, but I don't see how the APC change will promote that. I guess I'll have to try it when the new patch arrives.

=Romagnolo=
2009-01-02, 10:03
Excellent, can wait for the deployable medical bay, too.



True. :-o

EmanuelDC
2009-01-02, 10:43
Nice Work There!

Sanirius
2009-01-02, 10:55
Will it be possible to reload at an enemy supply crate when you have an enemy kit?

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 11:03
Jaymz;886068']



That's 7 players out of a possible 32 that are partaking in a "non-combat role". Not even 1/4th of the team.

however this is 1 sqd + 1 taken away, meaning we now only have 4 (full) sqds. on a map like kashan this will make a massive differnce.

Also i don't think 7/32 players enjoy "non combat roles" i think more like, 1/50 players enjoy that sort of thing

RedAlertSF
2009-01-02, 11:05
I suggest that if stuff can't be requested from FOB's anymore, automatic rifleman and LAT should be spawnkits, with limit 1 PER SQUAD. (still 3 people would be required)

evya
2009-01-02, 11:12
i dont really like that now you dont take from bunkers/firebases weapons:( also from RP but at least it more realistic not to take from them...

also didnt like the APC thingy:( so yea, it might work and yea its there job, but convoys with jeeps/landrovers are much more funny, also apc are slow so people will just take somesquad, leave them in the zone, and stay there until destroy/need ammo probaly, also i like humvve more its just more funny and quick for me at least:-)... also do they[both jeeps and APC in main] spawn more/quicker now?

also what about rockets, both LAT or HAT if APC become main transport there must be MORE of them and LAT should almost always destroy enemy apc ability to shot or inf going almost always be killed by APC...

also engi going be even more nerfed:( destroy the only one reason i keep playing with it:( i hope you get a better shotgun+more ability to him such as scope... or at least make him able to fix vehciles more quickly than the repair station or something or else he will almost never be played:( i dont like those three changes really:(

but all new logistics look very cool:) especily supply trucks+supply crates:) also do we still able to request kits in main base[like carriers since with them we cant wait for some kits if we want to capture something...] well for me it seems only insurncets maps once 0.85 comes when pubbing:/

Jagular
2009-01-02, 11:13
Hmm and what about skrimish, kits etc

SocketMan
2009-01-02, 11:13
Crappy Bf2 engine, it happens. But I'm pretty sure your tank hasn't been 'nerfed' so it can't kill a truck.

I've tried the same thing with a BMP 10 times in a row and no truck blew up after
1 shot.

Running 4 Vodnics/Humvees in one 6 man squad won't be possible with 0.8x anymore?

Rhino
2009-01-02, 11:13
Will it be possible to reload at an enemy supply crate when you have an enemy kit?

negative, also it wont be possible to reload / repair at the enemy vehicle depo unless you take the enemy main base.

PlaynCool
2009-01-02, 11:14
I dont like theese changes especialy the removal of Supply trucks and jeeps and with our current RP system RR is easily destroyable- i see the APC's role now only to transport troops.And about this repair crate how is it realistic to repair when standing near a crate which has tube, a wrench and a supply crate.

MadTommy
2009-01-02, 11:15
Looking forward to these changes. Thanks team :)

They sound good... but lads there is little point arguing how they will play out before they have been public for a few months.

If you are worried about players exploiting or misusing these new assets try joining actively admined servers. There's one that springs to mind. ;)

TomNedry
2009-01-02, 11:15
I like the changes and the idea that one will have the ability to maintain a "forward operating base (FAB)" as a real tactical asset with support for infantry and vehicles together in the near (hopefully) future.

Because i saw some posts where people are worried about the anticipated "problems" in public play, i like to tell this people thats this is the occasion right in time to join one of the (nearly) countless clans & communities.

I assume that everyone will agree that PR is the direct opposite to the so-called "casual games", and nobody is playing it just for one "quick" map. So each step to more essential teamwork, forced by game-engine restricitons and rules is one right step more. Otherwise we would still playing VBF2.

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 11:17
the word nerf come to mind again

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 11:19
also madtommy our server is constantly admined when its online, but you still get noobs and you can't kick people for being crappy team players. otherwise id kick everyone that doesnt have a mic and makes no attempt to communicate.

Alex6714
2009-01-02, 11:28
also madtommy our server is constantly admined when its online, but you still get noobs and you can't kick people for being crappy team players. otherwise id kick everyone that doesnt have a mic and makes no attempt to communicate.

It sounds harsh, but it might well be worth it now. I would be up for it.

SocketMan
2009-01-02, 11:37
Alex6714;886205']It sounds harsh, but it might well be worth it now. I would be up for it.


Banning would be harsh - kicking not as much;unless they're flying a loaded BH.

On a separate note:
How many HAT kits will be available?
There might be new "primary targets":twisted:

vilhelm123
2009-01-02, 11:55
however this is 1 sqd + 1 taken away, meaning we now only have 4 (full) sqds. on a map like kashan this will make a massive differnce.

Also i don't think 7/32 players enjoy "non combat roles" i think more like, 1/50 players enjoy that sort of thing

I dunno Timo, i've convoyed a couple of times and supply convoys aren't really 'Non combat', if you move up to help a damaged tank on kashan do you reckon the enemy team is going to sit back and let you do that? Think about it, one apc (maybe two if your lucky) escorting a truck is a target and a half for the other team. Hardly going to be non combat i reckon.

Rico
2009-01-02, 12:21
I like most of what I'm reading but have some concerns:

- Players dropping repair box behind a friendly tank and auto repairing as soon as they get hit. Hopefully this is addressed by having a full repair take like 5 minutes?
- Repair crates again - I can see it now, a vehicle repairing from a repair crate then *pop* it disappears as the driver of the logistics trucks drops it elsewhere for another unit.
- Engineers no longer being played due to limited abilities. I think if they are given ACOG sights or explosives they might actually be played in .85.
- No spawning of vehicles at FOB's. Hopefully transport vehicles will be increased because in some maps you rely on players setting up these bases just so that they will spawn vehicles. Happens in main bases like Basrah, Archer, all the time. No Humvees spawning will also make Muttrah and Barracuda hell for the US. On a side note, can the Chinese please have less Suppy trucks and jeeps on Cuda!
- Lack of kit request at RP's will significantly change the dynamic on some maps, for example not being able to get an AT kit and having no nearby APC, crate etc, on a map such as Fools Road.

LeChuckle
2009-01-02, 12:29
well i stand corrected then, i will sample 0.85 then pass judgement, however, i dont think its coincidence that my clan (which has been playing PR since the evry early days .2 i think) has had all its older vets stop playing PR because they dont like the direction its going in, and it seems that quite a few of us are considering .85 to be the last judge of PR as to wether we stay or go.

Player intake is up for PR, but it seems player retention is poor.


Please don't take me the wrong way, the devs are fantastic at creating new maps, kits, vehicles and what have you and i respect them enormously for the previous releases of this free mod. i just don't want to see PR crash and burn for me and my friends or anyone else that plays PR.

yeah, too bad they dont develop PR according to the preferences of iGi... :///

AquaticPenguin
2009-01-02, 12:32
I think people should wait and see, maybe some of the things mentioned won't work but I don't believe that PR devs should be scared to experiment or try things out people people aren't willing to give things a chance. I'm liking the look of a all of the changes myself - personally sometimes I don't mind being the guy transporting and I guarantee after a few days after it's released people will realise that the APC really isn't a light tank anymore.

There seems to be a lot of questions asked over and over again. Look through all the previous pages and see if it's already been answered (it only takes 5-10 minutes)

Rhino
2009-01-02, 12:32
I like most of what I'm reading but have some concerns:

- Players dropping repair box behind a friendly tank and auto repairing as soon as they get hit. Hopefully this is addressed by having a full repair take like 5 minutes?
- Repair crates again - I can see it now, a vehicle repairing from a repair crate then *pop* it disappears as the driver of the logistics trucks drops it elsewhere for another unit.
- Engineers no longer being played due to limited abilities. I think if they are given ACOG sights or explosives they might actually be played in .85.
- No spawning of vehicles at FOB's. Hopefully transport vehicles will be increased because in some maps you rely on players setting up these bases just so that they will spawn vehicles. Happens in main bases like Basrah, Archer, all the time. No Humvees spawning will also make Muttrah and Barracuda hell for the US. On a side note, can the Chinese please have less Suppy trucks and jeeps on Cuda!
- Lack of kit request at RP's will significantly change the dynamic on some maps, for example not being able to get an AT kit and having no nearby APC, crate etc, on a map such as Fools Road.

1 & 2. ye, it will take a long time to repair but unless anything has been changed without me knowing the "repair drop" will only stay around for like 2 or 5 mins after its been dropped so that you will have to use it wisely, and only drop it when you need repairs. So if you dropped it in your tanks "camping spot" so that when your tanks gets hit it will repair you, it would have most likely already disappeared by then or its time will almost be up.

3. Engys will play a different role in PR in v0.85 and will be a valuable asset to a team.

4. yes but also think of it like this, on muttrah etc the other side will also not have as many jeeps to shoot down enemy choppers with there 50cals with ;)

5. we will just have to wait and see how it plays :)

Deer
2009-01-02, 12:43
Yep if its not possible to get AT kits from rallypoints, next patch everyone are lining up to get vehicles because those are like godmode.

pleym
2009-01-02, 12:44
Truck:
If you could make 2 types of the trucks: One transport with a small ammo box or some thing and a transport truck for supply's. The truck is a grate transport vehicle for the team;)

Engineer:
If the engineer could get a tool to cut razor wire, it would be nice or a little TNT or some thing to blast it a way. If they got a tool to cut razor wire it could take around 2-4 min to cut it so the engineer could need some cover from the others in the squad or team.
The engineers are "meant to be" handyman's so they need a lot of tools:)


Well I liked the rest of the work you have done, I really look forward to 0.85 now:p
Well good work:!:

Tomato-Rifle
2009-01-02, 12:53
Nice, but can the Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot repair enemy vehicles to?

Rhino
2009-01-02, 12:58
Nice, but can the Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot repair enemy vehicles to?

as I posted on the last page, no unless you capture the flag nearest the depo.

Outlawz7
2009-01-02, 13:25
Can we have more pics of the logistics trucks for other factions?
Also, what will happen to faction that use IFVs and have no APCs, like British with their Warrior or MEC with the BMP3/BTR90?

SocketMan
2009-01-02, 13:27
Rhino;886239']1 & 2. ye, it will take a long time to repair but unless anything has been changed without me knowing the "repair drop" will only stay around for like 2 or 5 mins after its been dropped so that you will have to use it wisely, and only drop it when you need repairs. So if you dropped it in your tanks "camping spot" so that when your tanks gets hit it will repair you, it would have most likely already disappeared by then or its time will almost be up.

3. Engys will play a different role in PR in v0.85 and will be a valuable asset to a team.

4. yes but also think of it like this, on muttrah etc the other side will also not have as many jeeps to shoot down enemy choppers with there 50cals with ;)

5. we will just have to wait and see how it plays :)





I hope MEC does not have to wait 20 minutes for the BTR (or whatever they get)
on Mutrah since that would be the (only?) primary transport .
Will remind people that Armored Personal Carrier is for Carrying Personal - I like that part - many people will have to change their "tactics" (eventually).

Tirak
2009-01-02, 13:27
Jaymz;886068']http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/curlymaboo/Funny_Pictures_Animated_Funny_Baby.gif




Let's see,

There are 2 Logistics Trucks per map and they each have 2 seats. That's a grand total of 4 people running Logistical Support out of a possible 32 players per team.

There are, however, a few maps that have an exception to this rule. Large scale armoured conflicts (Kashan being a prime example) will have 4 Logistics Trucks per team. This is to accommodate for the resource consuming nature of MBT's/IFV's (you have to bare in mind that the burden of field repairs now lies with Logistics Trucks).

So, even if we give you the benefit of a doubt and assume we are on Kashan Desert 64 with,

1 x Commander
4 x Logistical Personnel
2 x Transport Helicopter Pilots

That's 7 players out of a possible 32 that are partaking in a "non-combat role". Not even 1/4th of the team.

You're also forgetting the APC drivers, who instead of supporting infantry in your model, will be rushing between squads to rearm them and because they are the only kit request point in the field, unless you intend to get a supply truck up to the front :rolleyes:

Scot
2009-01-02, 13:33
I hope MEC does not have to wait 20 minutes for the BTR (or whatever they get)
on Mutrah since that would be the (only?) primary transport .
Will remind people that Armored Personal Carrier is for Carrying Personal - I like that part - many people will have to change their "tactics" (eventually).

I agree, except like every APC is an IFV on the game ;) I think we need actual APCs modelled, like the Stryker, but hey, who am I to judge, I just wanna play it now!!! :mrgreen:

IAJTHOMAS
2009-01-02, 13:35
Hopefully APCs will attach themselves to a particular infantry squad and service their supply and transport needs most of the time, as well as providing fire support. I've seen it done on current the current version in pub matches a few times, so it is possible, if not a regular occurance at the moment.

The only difficulty is with BF2's hardcoded voip you can't talk to the apc crew while in an infantry squad, unless it through text, which is cumbersome, or over TS, which requires a bit of organisation and foresight that you might not see on the average server which people join on a whim.

Molyporph
2009-01-02, 13:36
Because squads instantly die when they exit the APC at the destination, can't set rally points, can't spawn on firebases and can't request kits when they get dropped off, amirite?

APCs having to transport (and people having to be transported by them) doesn't mean they can't support inf from time to time.

Molyporph
2009-01-02, 13:37
Sorry, forgot quote :/ Aimed at the talk about alot of players being in non-combat roles.

Scot
2009-01-02, 13:38
Outlawz;886272']Can we have more pics of the logistics trucks for other factions?
Also, what will happen to faction that use IFVs and have no APCs, like British with their Warrior or MEC with the BMP3/BTR90?

Sorry for double post, but the British have the Bulldog FV430 Series & Bulldog - British Army Website (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/1478.aspx)

So it's not like we don't have APCs, and the MEC could use the M113 I suppose...

Outlawz7
2009-01-02, 13:41
Do we have them in-game?

scandhi
2009-01-02, 13:42
i guess that on large maps we will have helicopter to ferry troops as well. don't think they ganna remove them.
Apc's ganna get a squad to near hotzone. With a supply truck to deploy a crate for kit request. inf disembard. Get a rally or FB up to get respawn.
Apc stay for fire support. can't be that hard, or :?::?:

SocketMan
2009-01-02, 13:43
Hopefully APCs will attach themselves to a particular infantry squad and service their supply and transport needs most of the time, as well as providing fire support. I've seen it done on current the current version in pub matches a few times, so it is possible, if not a regular occurance at the moment.

The only difficulty is with BF2's hardcoded voip you can't talk to the apc crew while in an infantry squad, unless it through text, which is cumbersome, or over TS, which requires a bit of organisation and foresight that you might not see on the average server which people join on a whim.


Use 2 crewman + 4 infantry in one squad.;)

Incomplete Spork
2009-01-02, 13:43
Are there gonna be alot more community matches now? Because .85 seems like it won't be fun at all without any organization and that usually only happens about once a week.

Maxfragg
2009-01-02, 13:43
does the USMC have any dedicaded APC ? Only the Huge AAV-7 right ?

scandhi
2009-01-02, 13:45
Sorry for double post, but the British have the Bulldog FV430 Series & Bulldog - British Army Website (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/fighting-vehicles/1478.aspx)

So it's not like we don't have APCs, and the MEC could use the M113 I suppose...

Just like the British Universal Carrier?

Gore
2009-01-02, 13:46
Will we still be able to request kits from the RP?

Scot
2009-01-02, 13:57
Outlawz;886289']Do we have them in-game?

Nope, but I'm saying if the DEVs did, it's not like the British don't have APCs. We have enough Brit MAs to know whats in the Army, and you never know, sneaky addition for .85 for all we know ;)

Tofurkeymeister
2009-01-02, 14:03
Interesting... I wonder how it will play.

Ablack77
2009-01-02, 14:04
Wow guys, truly stunning work.
Looks like a huge amount of thought and hard work has gone into this.
Can't wait to see how it plays out.
:thumbsup: 8)

VoXiNaTiOn
2009-01-02, 14:43
dbzao;885626']

CREDITS:
Model: [R-CON]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav & I.N
Texture: [R-CON]Rhino, [R-CON]Mescaldrav, [R-DEV]Matrox, Alina Gal &

Rhino gave up Devving? :p.

Looking good, nice to see more away from the 'nilla wrench.

Rhino
2009-01-02, 15:03
VoXiNaTiOn;886355']Rhino gave up Devving? :p.

lol, copy and paste didn't work too well there :p

fixed :D

Sgt.Sheep
2009-01-02, 15:09
To be honest, I don't like these changes. I don't like them at all.

First of all, nice work on the models and the coding, devs. The new crates and trucks look pretty cool and I can see that a lot of work was put into these changes.
I also see what the devs want to accomplish, and I think that this will be accomplished with this release - as long as you are in an organized team such as the PRT or an active clan.

Unfortunately, Pubbing does not work that way.
There _will_ be smacktards and noobs such as the one guy who crashes the chopper at the carrier or those who drive straight through the enemy lines and lose the APC 2 minutes after they got it.
What happens e.g. in Kashan, when the choppers are down and all APCs are driving in the middle of nowhere? Thats right. You and your five squadmates have to wait a long time to get a transport - IF you can actually get one, since there are no Vodniks at your FO and the Cobra has just raped the BMP that was on the way to you.

Don't get me wrong, I always hated that APCs were (ab)used as IFVs, but artificially trying to force them to that strict role by making them the only means of transport is not really good in my opinion.

Then again, I haven't played .85 yet, so I can only hope that I am wrong.

Another thing I don't like is that the Engineer is stripped from it's "repairing" role. You have to have a very organized team to send a repair crate to a downed APC. But "Squad 6" doesn't want to drive the truck to the APC because they want to build a firebase at the other end of the map. That can be very frustrating as an APC crew. More frustrating than it already is sometimes in .8.

Seeing that in .8 commanders are very scarce on the Battlefield (assuming you don't play on a well administered server) who is going to organize this mess? Are there any changes in .85 that encourage commanders?


Another thing that bugs me is that you make it very hard for new players to get into the game. I started playing PR in 0.5 when it was easy to get into the changes and it was also easy from switch from release to release as you were used to the level of teamplay that was going on.
But now they have to read through lots of manual pages to get a basic understanding of the game.
And when they finally get to play, they experience frustrating situations like the ones above - which is not very appealing in my opinion.


Like I said, I haven't played .85 yet, so I can't really comment on public play yet. But guessing from these changes "Pubbing" just got a whole lot harder.

hx.bjoffe
2009-01-02, 15:22
Pretty radical changes..
Hoping for the best, but must admit im sceptical if all these changes being equally good for teamplay/good-time.
Can any of these additions rearm static/mounted weapons?

Element66
2009-01-02, 15:24
interesting changes, however a few ideas come to mind regarding the reapair crates

is it possible to make it so in order to actaully repair your vehicles with the repair crate, you still need a engineer to actaully carry out the repairs ?(i.e. an engineer can repair any vehicle within a certain distance from a repair crate) in order to preserve the role of engineers.

or make it so engineers/sappers can carry out minor repairs on light vehicles (jeeps? maybe trucks?) 20%? 50%?

to simulate patch jobs or replacing the tire? for example if a technical gets damaged traveling over rough ground does it have to go back to the insurgant Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot to get repairs? (do the insurgents even get these Vehicle Resupply/Repair Depot?)

few other things worry me as well, but i'm sure they have already been brought up...


(disclaimer: im not going to pretend to know much about coding and how diffcult it would be to implement, if they can be at all, just a few ideas that came to mind)

Ragni<RangersPL>
2009-01-02, 15:42
1. OK, no jeeps spawning on forward outposts... what about main bases? Will there be transport truck and jeeps spawning in the main base?
If NO then it's OMG-WTF-LOL wierd :lol:

There is a need for transport vehicles without kit requirements (crewmman) in PR gameplay. Many times you need to have a transport vehicle for your squad and maintain full squad fighting capabilities (without 2 crewman + 4 Inf. combo)... transport trucks or jeeps are perfect for this job. Without them infantry have to rely on APC squads... it will be a nightmare to ride around in those steel coffins because they will be even more attractive target for anyone with LAT/HAT then before and will be essential asset for the team. Personally I'll avoid riding in someones APC in PR 0.85, not because I doubt in other players skills... but because it'll be a LAT/HAT magnet :|

ExisSellos
2009-01-02, 15:47
a.w.s.o.m.e o 3000

gazzthompson
2009-01-02, 15:48
Without them infantry have to rely on APC squads...

thats exactly what the DEVs are trying to add.

Fox_Naturalist
2009-01-02, 15:49
i love it :D

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 16:28
What about the Insurgent Collabarator? Will his wrench still repair stuff?

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 16:44
thats exactly what the DEVs are trying to add.

In the first post they said they exact opposite...?

I have a question though that I'm surprised hasn't been asked. can vehicles get ammunition from supply crates?

Rhino
2009-01-02, 16:47
I have a question though that I'm surprised hasn't been asked. can vehicles get ammunition from supply crates?

no, vehicles must return to base/landing beach to reload from the vehicle depo.

Ragni<RangersPL>
2009-01-02, 16:49
thats exactly what the DEVs are trying to add.

Yes I know... That's what I've heard in the interview :roll:

I just can't get rid of the feelling that some of the changes are good only on paper.... it may not work on public games :???:

I guess I'll have to wait untill release with my comments and see how it will work.

gazzthompson
2009-01-02, 16:55
In the first post they said they exact opposite...?



APCs

These are going to be the main transport vehicles

^^^

Jonny
2009-01-02, 17:15
Rhino;886449']no, vehicles must return to base/landing beach to reload from the vehicle depo.

Does this not partly make the combat service support role pointless? If they have to return to main no matter what the team does after they have expended their rounds then why bother with any CSS at all? They can get repaired from the place they NEED to go to anyway.

Surely being able to set up an FO as a repair and re-arm point would be better, if you had different vehicles for each part AND had to continually replace the ammo-supplying component. Hiding, supplying and defending multiple places like this would then become very important.

It would be especially reliant on teamwork if the crate from a support jeep had a slow bleed to it that the little repair crate thing would exactly cancel out, thus meaning that if you dont place it close enough it will quickly expire. It then relies on two vehicles, one placing the repair thing once only and another continually supplying ammunition.

hx.bjoffe
2009-01-02, 17:25
How do you fix bridges?

Rhino
2009-01-02, 17:28
How do you fix bridges?

you deploy the repair drop next to it :)

scandhi
2009-01-02, 17:28
Bring them to the repairstation @ mainbase. :lol:

Rhino
2009-01-02, 17:32
Bring them to the repairstation @ mainbase. :lol:

ye, just fly the chinook over, have some guys fast rope down, attach some ropes to the bridge and lift each section clear back to main base, repair it at the depo then fly it back in :mrgreen:

Pride
2009-01-02, 17:36
Rhino;886487']ye, just fly the chinook over, have some guys fast rope down, attach some ropes to the bridge and lift each section clear back to main base, repair it at the depo then fly it back in :mrgreen:

The single biggest suprise of 0.85 and you just ruined it...well played Rhino.
:roll:

AnRK
2009-01-02, 17:39
Or build links into the world of twilight above your main and the bridge and warp a section in to drop on top of the missing piece :p

Rhino;886480']you deploy the repair drop next to it :)

So the repair drop is essential a squad of engineers cleverly compressed into a bottle of gas? :p

Rhino
2009-01-02, 17:43
Pride;886489']The single biggest suprise of 0.85 and you just ruined it...well played Rhino.
:roll:

quiet you! whos the lead dev here :p

So the repair drop is essential a squad of engineers cleverly compressed into a bottle of gas? :p

more or less yes :p

foxxravin
2009-01-02, 17:53
please stop! i dont have any more cum left :/ it hurts

User given infraction: Illegal post content

Tannhauser
2009-01-02, 18:20
You should stick some fuel barrels to the Repair Station model as I doubt those few gallons will do the job for 4 trucks and 2 APC's lol. Just me nitpicking tho, all of this is wonderfull! PR 0.85 will be special indeed! :-)

Rhino
2009-01-02, 18:24
You should stick some fuel barrels to the Repair Station model as I doubt those few gallons will do the job for 4 trucks and 2 APC's lol. Just me nitpicking tho, all of this is wonderfull! PR 0.85 will be special indeed! :-)

hehe, nor would the amount of 120 and 30mm rounds there :p

Ricardo-SC
2009-01-02, 18:51
Hi!

I like a lot, very nice job, congratulations to all the devs! :grin:

--

Sorry but I am still not very good in English. :oops:

M_Striker
2009-01-02, 18:56
^^^

In which case, the infantry will have to be dependent on APCs...

I don't get it...

You said the devs are trying to make infantry less dependent on APCs and then you just said they aren't...

Jonny
2009-01-02, 19:08
The infantry currently dont give a toss about friendly APCs, how can they become less dependant on them?

Nitneuc
2009-01-02, 19:09
Looks like great improvements to the gameplay, can't wait to use my APC for other tasks than giving targets for my gunner.
Congrats to all involved peoples. :smile:

Any chances to get details about the purpose of the engineer in 0.85 ? Without repairing ability it looks that the DEV team has rethought the kit, right ?

jeeao
2009-01-02, 19:54
I think there should be

1) supply depots at firebases and bunkers
2) Jeeps should spawn at bunkers.

The problem with this update is that there is that 32 players is simply not enough to coordinate all this. You cannot have one squad for escorting trucks all over the map and have the rest cap flags when we are forgetting special squads like recon and spec ops and sniper and APC and Tank and all those other squads. We would need atleast a 45player team to coordinate this huge update. I think wrenches should still be included but some restrictions to them which would be up to you guys to think of.

CodeRedFox
2009-01-02, 20:16
Is it just me or did a few of you only read the first paragraph and then went on to look at pics :roll:

Colonelcool125
2009-01-02, 20:34
CodeRedFox;886633']Is it just me or did a few of you only read the first paragraph and then went on to look at pics :roll:

I just looked at the pictures and started bitching.

:D

IAJTHOMAS
2009-01-02, 20:45
CodeRedFox;886633']Is it just me or did a few of you only read the first paragraph and then went on to look at pics :roll:

The Dev jorunal: the PR equivalent of the Sun.:razz:

PlaynCool
2009-01-02, 20:48
Alrright pls let ONLY the engineer be able to drive theese trucks, because they represent a full sqwad of field engineers going to the damaged tank, and repairing it wirte?(because a tank cant repair itself when standing close to such a crate).And whi dont we just keep the old command post on carrier maps, at the lower deck, because if the enemy captures your first flag they can use your newly spawned repair box can they?

masterceo
2009-01-02, 21:15
great changes, the repair/supply crate truck is just what a dedicated engineer (me) on Fools and other maps with lots of vehicles needed.

hiberNative
2009-01-02, 21:33
i like the changes. can't wait to feel them out ;P

agentscar
2009-01-02, 21:46
Sounds good,for gameplay.This shall adjust the way APC's are used fo sho.
:) (Like the ruskie stuff!)

gazzthompson
2009-01-02, 21:50
You said the devs are trying to make infantry less dependent on APCs and then you just said they aren't...

right...

Without them infantry have to rely on APC squads...

i said :

thats exactly what the DEVs are trying to add.

they are trying to add a reliance on APC squads..... is what im saying.

you then say :


In the first post they said they exact opposite...?

i then quote the DEVs saying that APCs will be main transport , again infantry reliance on APC's

AnRK
2009-01-02, 21:51
The Dev jorunal: the PR equivalent of the Sun.:razz:

There's words in the Sun?!

Jigsaw
2009-01-02, 22:04
Best part of this update: no more vodnik rushes!!

I am sick and tired of being overrun by a simply insane number of vodniks/humvees because about a million have spawned at FOBs and the main base, and cos I dont have any APC support and only one shot from my LAT im going to die...

For me it was one of the most unrealistic parts of the mod and thank god its not gonna happen anymore :D

As for the rest, I like it. There will be an increased focus on teamwork and inter squad coordination, hopefully getting more people to go on their servers TS, and will increase realism without slowing down the mod. It will help to create strongpoint positions and encourage squads not just to attack attack attack but to defend at times as well.

Robbi
2009-01-02, 22:19
Best part of this update: no more vodnik rushes!!

I am sick and tired of being overrun by a simply insane number of vodniks/humvees because about a million have spawned at FOBs and the main base, and cos I dont have any APC support and only one shot from my LAT im going to die...

For me it was one of the most unrealistic parts of the mod and thank god its not gonna happen anymore :D

As for the rest, I like it. There will be an increased focus on teamwork and inter squad coordination, hopefully getting more people to go on their servers TS, and will increase realism without slowing down the mod. It will help to create strongpoint positions and encourage squads not just to attack attack attack but to defend at times as well.

x2 without a shadow of a doubt...

SuperTimo
2009-01-02, 22:35
Vodnik

R.I.P

Drav
2009-01-02, 22:46
Timo, you've made your point, you dont like it......give it a rest......

d1sp0sabl3H3r0
2009-01-02, 22:52
And with these changes, we'd like to welcome back to Project Reality the importance of the Commander again!! ** APPLAUSE **

PlaynCool
2009-01-02, 23:02
Okay, if the old Command post is getting replaced with the repair box where is the commander going to be?

cyberzomby
2009-01-02, 23:10
Really good! Now we will maybe see APC squads acting like those chopper squads! Good job everyone!

Dude388
2009-01-02, 23:22
A small Epiphany has occurred because of this (I'm slow I know :wink:).

It seems as though that some ARMOR squads and LOGISTIC squads can now merge into one entity. No more 2-4 man ARMOR squads with useless squadies standin around just watching the battle as engineers. While two/three player's man the armor, two or more can be performing LOGISTICs duties IN ADDITION TO performing field repairs.

Huzzah!