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Rhino
2008-12-19, 11:18
After v0.8's release, [R-DEV]Dr Rank wanted me to make some new fields for Sangin and other maps. Well instead of just doing reskins for the old, flawed Overgrowth Fields I decided to look into new concepts due to flaws in the old fields, such as mappers are very limited in how they can use them since they are huge blocks, bad LODs and lots of other small issues like that.


Old PR Overgrowth Rice Field
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/1258/78665098ws6.jpg


I spent a few days working out a few basic concepts, came up with quite a few, many simply did not work out and had the same kinda flaws as the old fields.

Eventually one of my ideas did start to look a little promising, with the basic the concept of this idea was to make a basic small patch that you would then put loads of them together using the overgrowth tool to place them and then mix them with undergrowth for extra up close detail.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1952/50231034qm6.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1966/screen142iw4.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7316/screen143hf0.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2623/screen144fe8.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7734/screen146lc8.jpg

We got this into testing with a bunch of testers and found that these do indeed conceal players extremely well and we could also surprisingly not see any performance difference between the original qwai without them. Thou there is a small problem with this concept, is that it is very hard to setup these fields on your map as a mapper, thou you the player do not have to worry about that. ;)

The main advantage of these new fields over the old ones from a mappers point of view is that you are not limited to square fields, like you can see above, the fields can be all kind of shapes and for the most part you can fill them with these new overgrowth fields. They also do not have to be placed on 100% flat terrain, they can get away with being placed on slight gradients and slopes thou if any extreme changes in terrain happens these can float like at the edge of the fields.

Due to the size of Qwai it would take a lot of time to clean up all the large fields that are in the map, so although I used the map for orignal ingame testing of these, Qwai will NOT have these fields in it for v0.85

Instead I'm piloting this concept on the new map, West Fallujah where I've made new "Wild Grass" fields for this map.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1378/76050432rm8.jpg

Some of you have already noticed these fields in the screens I've released on Fallujah in anouther Dev Journal on the map itself but encase you have not, here they are with some extras.


http://www.gloryhoundz.com/prmm/users/rhino/fw/18.jpg

http://www.gloryhoundz.com/prmm/users/rhino/fw/19.jpg


Providing everything goes well on Fallujah in v0.85 with these fields we will look at making many more types of these fields and putting them on many other maps where ever its feasibly possible, like Qwai, Al Basrah etc.

For future types of fields we are looking at many types and there [R-DEV]Pride has been also hard at work making some new field textures for this purpose. One of these that some of you had noticed one of my less scuttle hints has been my avatar that I put up for Remembrance Day (which I've not got round to changing yet) which has been poppy fields. Pride has made 6 types of poppy textures that I have setup ingame and we hope to use in some future Afghanistan and other themed maps :D

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8505/59080392by8.jpg


We hope these fields will add a new dimension to realistic gameplay as well as making our maps look and feel more realistic. :mrgreen:

Scot
2008-12-19, 11:20
Excellent work Rhino, bring back Mao Vallay :D

MonkeySoldier
2008-12-19, 11:23
Looks awesome!

Outlawz7
2008-12-19, 11:23
Finally no more game play issues with undergrowth fields \o/

I do think that maybe a smaller version of the grass patch would be useful, in those Qwai screenshots you can notice that it's actually a bunch of round grass fields stuck together

PFunk
2008-12-19, 11:27
The word "Ambush" suddenly comes to mind. :D

supahpingi
2008-12-19, 11:29
Awesome,this can replace fastropes anyday :D
And yeah,ambushing will be awesome now

Rhino
2008-12-19, 11:33
Outlawz;874466']I do think that maybe a smaller version of the grass patch would be useful, in those Qwai screenshots you can notice that it's actually a bunch of round grass fields stuck together

a smaller version would mean you would notice the "honey cone" effect even more. We feel that its a very little thing compared to how many advantages this gives and all in all, gives it colour variation which at most levels looks good, just when your look from high up down looks a little odd but still, fine for the most part.

xatu miller
2008-12-19, 11:39
That wild grass looks awsome!

Hitperson
2008-12-19, 11:40
and this works out to long range??

Rhino
2008-12-19, 11:43
and this works out to long range??

upto 600m at least but I think I can get it higher.

Hans Martin Slayer
2008-12-19, 11:43
great job, rhino!

this will add a lot! 8)

Tannhauser
2008-12-19, 11:43
Being static poppy fields, I guess they render at long range. Or are they undergrowth? (doubt it)

Rhino
2008-12-19, 11:45
Ah ye the poppies, let me just edit my main post a sec :D

Cptkanito
2008-12-19, 11:50
looks way better than the old ones, cant w8...

Rhino
2008-12-19, 12:01
poppies added to first post, almost forgot to credit Pride's hard work there :p

ERASERLASER
2008-12-19, 12:05
very nice, now I can crawl through the grass instead of peggin it across like a madman :)

AfterDune
2008-12-19, 12:14
Rhino, are these things the same size as the old ones? As in, replacing these in an existing maps is much easier then, also for the community. If they're a different size, existing maps (ground) may need to be altered (raised/lowered/re-painted) and re-lightmapped.

Bushrag
2008-12-19, 12:16
Awsome!!! I've always hated the current fields as they would disappear after a very short distance... You guys rock!!!

Rhino
2008-12-19, 12:20
AfterDune;874500']Rhino, are these things the same size as the old ones? As in, replacing these in an existing maps is much easier then, also for the community. If they're a different size, existing maps (ground) may need to be altered (raised/lowered/re-painted) and re-lightmapped.

no AD they are not the same size, they are much smaller... the maps do not need to be altered much apart from its undergrowth settings and no new lightmaps need to happen as overgrowth dont use lightmaps and these fields do not cast ligthmaps on the terrain.

AfterDune
2008-12-19, 12:41
Rog, cheers :).

I know the fields don't need to be lightmapped, but if the size was bigger for example, this may result in mappers needing to change the terrain, which may result a new lightmap of the terrain, etc :p. I know it's a long shot, but still, hehe. Good to hear anyways. Will put it in my map as well..

S.P.C-[Reality]-
2008-12-19, 12:44
indeed, it is really nice looking and as you said it doesnt disapear in great distances(!?). overall, its AMAZING :D

Ragni<RangersPL>
2008-12-19, 12:48
This will be perfect for my map :D

Rangu
2008-12-19, 13:03
That's cool!

foxxravin
2008-12-19, 13:04
NICE!!! :D that is cum in my ear

Rezza
2008-12-19, 14:02
Rhino as always bringing up the goods :) Nice job

=Romagnolo=
2008-12-19, 14:08
Fantastic work (again, as usual). Too bad we won't have these new grass statics for Qwai in 0.85 ... Why not ? (just curious)

Smuke
2008-12-19, 14:16
Great work Rhine and Pride, can't wait to see this in some of the retro maps.

LeChuckle
2008-12-19, 14:20
now lets add some more trees/objects to qwai and increase the VD a bi:thumbsup::2gunsfiri:2gunsfirit

HunterMed
2008-12-19, 14:28
cool.

every new detail makes this game even better...
I really like it :)

Charity Case
2008-12-19, 14:33
Looks like my idea caught on real fast :-P. Great work on these fields, I'm looking forward to seeing them in .85 and .9.

AfterDune
2008-12-19, 15:17
Looks like my idea caught on real fast :-P
Lol, you joker ;)

Rhino
2008-12-19, 15:32
Fantastic work (again, as usual). Too bad we won't have these new grass statics for Qwai in 0.85 ... Why not ? (just curious)

because there are loads of floaters which will take me days of solid work to clean it all up and get it all looking spick and span as such so I want to fully confirm that there are no huge performance issues with some type of GFX card range or something as on paper this should really be quite laggy in some respects :p

And I didn't have that much time to clean it up before .85 :p

PlaynCool
2008-12-19, 15:53
So does that mean that 0.85 is coming very soon?

Rhino
2008-12-19, 15:54
no it just means there are higher priority stuff I need to be working on.

NyteMyre
2008-12-19, 15:55
Looks nice,
Kinda reminds me of those screenshots that Invasion 1944 for Operation Flashpoint usually released. (they had some nice flower/grass fields in their mod aswell)

Example #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtoqICrrzGA), Example #2 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/invcorn1.jpg), Example #3 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/jojvegetation1.jpg), Example #4 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/jojvegetation2.jpg).

JacenSolo
2008-12-19, 15:59
Very good job!! I love this grass!!

McBumLuv
2008-12-19, 16:19
Amazing stuff, can't wait for .85 :smile:

sn1p3rslippinz
2008-12-19, 16:45
Yeh awesome work!! keep it up! :D

Simmage
2008-12-19, 17:10
Looks pretty awesome ;)

hall0
2008-12-19, 17:11
Nice one but one thing bugs me
Qwai will NOT have these fields in it for v0.85
Damn was so happy when i saw this version :(

Threedroogs
2008-12-19, 17:30
nice! looks great.

Engineer
2008-12-19, 18:27
Hell yeah!

With all of this progress, 1.0 will be so great that I could skip the next releases.

=Romagnolo=
2008-12-19, 19:03
Rhino;874660']no it just means there are higher priority stuff I need to be working on.

Like..... ?




Looks nice,
Kinda reminds me of those screenshots that Invasion 1944 for Operation Flashpoint usually released. (they had some nice flower/grass fields in their mod aswell)

Example #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtoqICrrzGA), Example #2 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/invcorn1.jpg), Example #3 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/jojvegetation1.jpg), Example #4 (http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics2/jojvegetation2.jpg).


LOL at the Halftrack roll !

CodeRedFox
2008-12-19, 19:45
Like..... ?


Making fastrope movies.

MAINERROR
2008-12-19, 19:49
CodeRedFox;874785']Making fastrope movies.

Nah wrong, making fast ropes!

M.Warren
2008-12-19, 20:42
Outlawz;874466']Finally no more game play issues with undergrowth fields \o/

I do think that maybe a smaller version of the grass patch would be useful, in those Qwai screenshots you can notice that it's actually a bunch of round grass fields stuck together

Murphy's Law: If it's stupid but it works; it's not stupid.

Rhino;874474']a smaller version would mean you would notice the "honey cone" effect even more. We feel that its a very little thing compared to how many advantages this gives and all in all, gives it colour variation which at most levels looks good, just when your look from high up down looks a little odd but still, fine for the most part.

That's the exact kind of effect we need. Inconsistancies are best suited for grassy areas because we wouldn't want players to stare at the grass and look for a singular means to identify if an enemy soldier is in it. The harder the better.

Concealment and cover is the key to any infantryman. Something that's always been missing from out PR experience for some time. It appears our soldiers will have a chance to perform better now against armored units.

Skodz
2008-12-19, 21:16
Very nice, I love these long draw distance field. We want more of it.

agentscar
2008-12-19, 21:19
Looks waaay better than the old ones.Great work as usual Rhino! :)

evya
2008-12-20, 05:56
awesome work! great news about the drawing distance:)

DeadSmile187
2008-12-20, 06:45
MAINERROR;874788']Nah wrong, making fast ropes!

loled on that :lol:

GR34
2008-12-20, 06:56
the popies will add some nice color to the battlefield. I hope they wont turn into Flanders fields.

maverick551
2008-12-20, 07:20
simply gorgeous Rhino. Just another reason why PR is its own game :)

cyberzomby
2008-12-20, 08:08
Looks very realistic! Really great

slayer
2008-12-20, 11:28
cute :D

hiberNative
2008-12-20, 12:34
dude, i appreciate this. a lot. especially if it draws at really long distances.
please spam it everywhere on every map ;P

sn1p3rslippinz
2008-12-20, 12:39
good job buddy :D

Claymore
2008-12-20, 14:41
Oh my god, this is one of the best news ever. Apart from a fact that it looks very good one of the big issues in the game was solved. Bravo!

ExisSellos
2008-12-20, 15:06
awsome o 3000

D4rk_l0rdBR
2008-12-20, 15:27
Excellent work Rhino, bring back Mao Vallay :D


Yeah and Steel Thunder too!!!

With this nem grass will be great ;)

D4rk_l0rdBR
2008-12-20, 15:29
*new

ps: where is the edit button :confused:

Rhino
2008-12-20, 15:53
this is for fields, not grass... This is infeasible to do this for all the grass/undergrowth in a map..

McBumLuv
2008-12-20, 16:35
I'm guessing only the new maps in .85 will get this? You've said Qwai will not, and seeing as it's the one where it's already been tried, I don't think Al Basrah and others would get this, Amirite?

Rhino
2008-12-20, 16:41
I said Fallujah is being used as the pilot map for these new fields to make sure there are no problems with them before we look at replacing all the fields on all the other maps, ie, fallujah will be the only map to have these new fields on in v0.85 .... :roll:

Nibbit
2008-12-20, 16:42
will this eat more RAM?

Rhino
2008-12-20, 16:44
will this eat more RAM?

Rhino;874457']We got this into testing with a bunch of testers and found that these do indeed conceal players extremely well and we could also surprisingly not see any performance difference between the original qwai without them.

:roll:

Nibbit
2008-12-20, 16:51
Rhino;875229']:roll:

nice :)

McBumLuv
2008-12-20, 17:06
Rhino;875227']I said Fallujah is being used as the pilot map for these new fields to make sure there are no problems with them before we look at replacing all the fields on all the other maps, ie, fallujah will be the only map to have these new fields on in v0.85 .... :roll:

I know, I know, just making sure :p I can hope, can't I? ;)

Rhino
2008-12-20, 17:14
I know, I know, just making sure :p I can hope, can't I? ;)

no you certainly can not as if you hope to much it may come true but the result of it would be that you would have to wait much longer for v0.85 to come out if I where to get these on every map that could use them and working perfectly etc. Like I said in my first post, the biggest flaw about this new concept is how much time and energy it takes to set these up as a mapper and that's not including how many times the editor will crash while doing it.

Robbi
2008-12-20, 20:19
Very nice Rhino

pclipse_teh_owner
2008-12-20, 22:23
Whoa excellent work!

Conman51
2008-12-21, 04:30
will this cause lag though?...if it does is it a little or a lot?

Conman51
2008-12-21, 04:32
will this cause lag though?...if it does is it a little or a lot?

aww cant edit post..i found teh answer

Anxiety
2008-12-21, 05:48
How would they fair in such a map like sangin ? (with it being 4km's) I only ask because i'm making a map 4km's in size and was wondering if I should be waiting for .85 and making the fields out of these as apposed to making them now on really flat ground . . .

if You've given me the answer i apologise for the repeated question , i didn't find it :P


Is it me or is rhino the only one who uses :roll: :P was this smilie designed for him =D

Albatross
2008-12-21, 07:16
Fields of Joy! !

Rhino
2008-12-21, 13:02
How would they fair in such a map like sangin ? (with it being 4km's) I only ask because i'm making a map 4km's in size and was wondering if I should be waiting for .85 and making the fields out of these as apposed to making them now on really flat ground . . .

if You've given me the answer i apologise for the repeated question , i didn't find it :P


Is it me or is rhino the only one who uses :roll: :P was this smilie designed for him =D

just keep your fields reliantly flat, well its more they need to be very "smooth" and no sharp terrain bits in the middile of the fields unless you do not paint the fields on them. And then for now just paint the fields as a separate undergrowth but leave a gap around the edges.

Anxiety
2008-12-21, 13:11
Thankyou Rhino for the Help ! =)

Arnoldio
2008-12-21, 13:21
Epic, now snipers will be covered

Cant wait to crawl the shit out of those fields!

Sparky Speirs
2008-12-21, 14:43
Nice Job !

Anxiety
2008-12-22, 00:15
Has Anyone else realised Rhino has showed us those poppy fields since remembrance day?

Look at his avatar

Sly Rhino, Sly:wink:

Rhino
2008-12-22, 00:18
Has Anyone else realised Rhino has showed us those poppy fields since remembrance day?

Look at his avatar

Sly Rhino, Sly:wink:

as I said in my post, many devs put out small hints like that around the forums :p

Froztbyte
2008-12-22, 00:51
Looks nice rhino..Real nice

SocketMan
2008-12-22, 13:44
Rhino knows his weed ! Looks great.

Nice work everyone else as well

The longer the range the better,600 is good but might be to small in the future?
If it would go on Kashan now (it won't) - the tanks,AA and attack choppers can "see" over 600m easily.

mp5punk
2008-12-23, 00:59
wow very nice!!!

Redamare
2008-12-23, 02:07
ITS WHAT IVE ALWAYS WANTED ...... WALKING ALONG WITH MY SQUAD TAKING FIRE LEFT AND RIGHT JUST THEN........ A CLEARING ( STOPS TO PICK DANDYLIONS AND TULIPS :) WOW Mabey well all start skipping through the flower fields singing la la fa la la la LAA haha ( i like the new fields though ) ;D

J.Silva[22ndMEU]
2008-12-23, 04:21
Awesome. Better camoflague for troops in squads moving in these areas. Be sure to use this one to your advantage. Hell try finding a sniper in that stuff you have a ahrd time, just like some of them bushes in quinling. you can hide like 4 people in there lol.

Viper.Sw
2008-12-23, 15:48
GREAT !!!

Thank you for fixing one of the worst things in PR.
Hope mappers will add these kind of static fields to all maps from now on, and also replace old ones.

It is soo annoying having people/tanks spotting you through invisible grass all the time, while u cant see shit from ur own perspective.

One of the best reality-like things made for some time now.

AfterDune
2008-12-23, 16:13
GREAT !!!

Thank you for fixing one of the worst things in PR.
Hope mappers will add these kind of static fields to all maps from now on, and also replace old ones.

It is soo annoying having people/tanks spotting you through invisible grass all the time, while u cant see shit from ur own perspective.

One of the best reality-like things made for some time now.
Son.. many maps of PR already had new over-undergrowth. It's not new, it's just... better now ;).

Human_001
2008-12-24, 06:25
Will this grass disappear at distance like current one?

CodeRedFox
2008-12-24, 06:48
I think a few of you are miss understanding bf2 engine terminology.

Undergrowth: (0 - 10m then disappears)
Small player rendered detail grass. Give the illusion that there is more then a big polygon below you.

Overgrowth: (0 - [mapper placed vs Lag] then disappears)
This only works with trees and bushed. Statics that come into contact with the ground at a relative single point.

Static Fields: (0 - [mapper placed vs Lag] then disappears)
The best we can do right now, think of this just like a building. Its the same exact thing except it has no collision meshes.

OverGrowth Fields:
Will NEVER happen, not now not ever on the bf2 engine...unless the ground is flat for a large area. If the grass/field static is 5 meters x 5 meters then the polygon below it needs to be flat or it will float. Same goes for the 50 meters x 50 meters. If the ground isnt flat it doesn't work.


I hope that clears up any questions. If this THE fix, no. But its damn well a good idea that will allow us to get close to having some real fields.

Rhino
2008-12-24, 13:40
CodeRedFox;878156']I think a few of you are miss understanding bf2 engine terminology.

Undergrowth: (0 - 10m then disappears)
Small player rendered detail grass. Give the illusion that there is more then a big polygon below you.

Overgrowth: (0 - [mapper placed vs Lag] then disappears)
This only works with trees and bushed. Statics that come into contact with the ground at a relative single point.

Static Fields: (0 - [mapper placed vs Lag] then disappears)
The best we can do right now, think of this just like a building. Its the same exact thing except it has no collision meshes.

OverGrowth Fields:
Will NEVER happen, not now not ever on the bf2 engine...unless the ground is flat for a large area. If the grass/field static is 5 meters x 5 meters then the polygon below it needs to be flat or it will float. Same goes for the 50 meters x 50 meters. If the ground isnt flat it doesn't work.

I hope that clears up any questions. If this THE fix, no. But its damn well a good idea that will allow us to get close to having some real fields.

sorry CRF but this isn't quite what it is...


Undergrowth Fields: very detailed, but only can draw upto ~50m (mapper set) and is VERY flexible for the mapper. Problem is if you set it to draw much over 50m it will lag most clients to sh*t (very bad). Undergrowth should only be used as a decorative tool and not as a concealment element by a mapper.

Static Fields: there isn't such things right now, making "static fields" screws up the lighting if you make it as a "simpleobject"

OverGrowth Fields: is what Al Basrah has, the big blocks of fields and is what this is about. Thou the fields are not placed with the Overgrowth tool, instead they are placed by hand like a static (which may be the confusing bit). These new fields are still Overgrowth fields but they run with a new concept behind them which makes them a lot more flexible etc.

Cptkanito
2008-12-24, 15:50
I'm no editor but looks awesome...

Scandicci
2008-12-24, 15:54
After posts like these, I realize that my meager $ contribution to the PR effort is, well, meager.

mp5punk
2008-12-24, 16:46
well what is the problem with the fields now?

Rhino
2008-12-24, 20:07
Rhino;874457']Well instead of just doing reskins for the old, flawed Overgrowth Fields I decided to look into new concepts due to flaws in the old fields, such as mappers are very limited in how they can use them since they are huge blocks, bad LODs and lots of other small issues like that.

the main issues are highlighted there on the first paragraph from the first post that it looks like you did not read.

It is no point into going into any more detail as only mappers and people who understand how the game works etc are really going to understand in how much potential these fields have compared to the old ones from a mappers point of view... :roll:

put it simple, you do not have to have square fields like shown on the Qwai and Fallujah pics...

Pabloss88
2009-01-03, 19:27
Really very nice work!
This its good-road for PR mode!!!

Sorry please for my bad english.

sn1p3rslippinz
2009-01-04, 15:33
Looking good rhino :D

Kivan
2009-01-08, 14:52
What about the grass that appears through the car's bodies and buildings?

PlaynCool
2009-01-18, 11:26
This is the thing that will bring realism to PR, its just stupid to get shot by the enemy while you are prone in the grass 200m away, because he cant see the grass, but you can and you cant see him because of the grass near you ....

NoxNoctum
2009-07-06, 03:05
Haven't read the entire thread yet, but am I correct in understanding this will be ported over to the other maps to replace the dissapearing grass we have now?

Like Qwai for example, that large field in the north west is basically useless as cover (worse than useless actually since troops in the field can't see out easily but guys off on a hill can see them as if they were in an open plain).

What's the ETA on this new grass being ported over to Qwai, Tad Sae, etc...? .9?