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Jaymz
2008-02-04, 12:10
Crewman PDW

Having crewmen with full sized assault rifles was a little bit ridiculous. Getting a G3A3 out of a burning T90 would be a little bit too much hastle in RL:p. So we've issued them more feasible firearms.

PLA : QBZ95b w/ 2+1 mags (PLA SF now use full size QBZ95's with ironsights)

MEC : MP5A3 w/ 2+1 mags

USMC : M4 M68 w/ 2+1 mags (not an M4A1, comes with a single/burst trigger group)

GB : No suitable replacement at this time.

Heavy AT

Due to the delay systems used to portray setting up H-AT systems and acquiring targets, we have come to the conclusion that issuing them Assault Rifles will allow the kit better integration into infantry squads.

PLA : QBZ-95 ironsights w/ 2+1 mags

MEC : G3A3 ironsights w/ 2+1 mags

USMC : M16A4 ironsights w/ 2+1 mags

GB : L85A2 ironsights w/ 2+1 mags

Spec
2008-02-04, 12:37
ha! Good stuff, nice. Love the changes.

Maxfragg
2008-02-04, 12:48
now we need a L22 for the brits.

mammikoura
2008-02-04, 13:08
looks great.

hx.bjoffe
2008-02-04, 13:10
Cool. Smart guns for Crewmen, and HATs back in infanterysquads. I can't see why not?
Don't know about PLS specops tho...

KingLorre
2008-02-04, 13:13
Sweet!!! perfect toughts there!


<3 devs!

Ragni<RangersPL>
2008-02-04, 13:41
Jaymz;600428']GB : No suitable replacement at this time.

How about suitable placeholder? Vanilish MP5? MP7?... double UZI?(joke :D)

Polka
2008-02-04, 14:22
Perfect for the crewman kit, but M4 M68 ? Pics please

ReaperMAC
2008-02-04, 14:24
Finally! :D Seemed kinda silly running to the heat of combat with just a pistol.

G.Drew
2008-02-04, 14:40
nice!

=Romagnolo=
2008-02-04, 14:48
First post \o/

I rent this post, send MP to me !

=Romagnolo=
2008-02-04, 14:52
I made a little search and found the weapons that the enginiers are going to have, because not everyone knows the weapons by name

PLA : QBZ95b
http://www.wing21.rtaf.mi.th/wboard/3011254711275.jpg

MEC : HK53A3
http://www.looki.de/gfx/product/1/1612/additional/euroforces/244cc21fe005ef1b4c96f03deed4602d.jpg

USMC : M4 M68
http://tri.army.mil/LC/cs/csi/m4carb.jpg

Spike
2008-02-04, 15:06
http://world.guns.ru/assault/sa80-l22a1.jpg
L22A2 carbine, as issued to Royal Armoured Corps tank crews in Iraq.

i guess this is the sort of weapon your looking for, for the Brits crewman kit.

Mekstizzle
2008-02-04, 15:17
Can't you just give UK the MP7?

Heckler & Koch MP7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP7#Users)

MoD Police use it. Not that I've ever heard of them (no offence if anyone here is part of the MoD Police :P)

Who's to say in a time of total conventional war such as the scenario in PR, that the MoD wouldn't issue these to all crewmen. Throw it in, I say

Pride
2008-02-04, 15:41
The L22 that spike psoted would be the one given, if the DEVs made it. However, Jaymz says there is 'no suitable replacement' meaning 'there is no suitable replacement already in game'...at least that's what i think :p

CheRiTTo
2008-02-04, 15:54
Good things for the crewmen but i dont like the idea to give Heavy At a rifle. I think it wont make the heavy at guy do what is supposed to do.

MrD
2008-02-04, 16:18
Guys, the search for an animator goes on, to add new weapons into the games engine. Until then, the SA80 series carbine is going to wait, but you can at least view it on a table with MP5, Kalashnikov variant and a few other "toys"


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/MrDestructo1/IMG_0889.jpg

$kelet0r
2008-02-04, 16:21
Can't you just give UK the MP7?

Heckler & Koch MP7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP7#Users)

MoD Police use it. Not that I've ever heard of them (no offence if anyone here is part of the MoD Police :P)

Who's to say in a time of total conventional war such as the scenario in PR, that the MoD wouldn't issue these to all crewmen. Throw it in, I sayThe L85A2 is a far more plausible weapon than an arbitrarily chosen submachine gun for use in a confined space, in fact it is current used as such as the L22A1 is a relatively new weapon
However, I am EXTREMELY concerned by the MEC choice - I foresee regular infantry choosing it to benefit from low recoil rather than master the G3, completely undermining the gameplay.
The MEC crewmen instead should get a MR 444 with lots of 9x19mm Parabellummm ammo in the absence of a stubby G3KA4 or a 9x19mm Parabellum submachine gun such as the HK MP5 given the German theme in MEC firearms. ALternatively the Bizon would be a possible choice if the MR444 ammo is in fact Makarov 9x18mm Soviet - the pistol is manufactured for both calibers.

But giving the crewman an "easier" weapon than the G3 will be very bad for gameplay

Bowskill
2008-02-04, 16:42
I made a little search and found the weapons that the enginiers are going to have, because not everyone knows the weapons by name

PLA : QBZ95b
http://www.wing21.rtaf.mi.th/wboard/3011254711275.jpg

MEC : HK53A3
http://www.looki.de/gfx/product/1/1612/additional/euroforces/244cc21fe005ef1b4c96f03deed4602d.jpg

USMC : M4 M68
http://tri.army.mil/LC/cs/csi/m4carb.jpg
Actually the M4 M68 is an M4 with an aimpoint, IE Vanilla but with burst instead of full auto. :)

Maxfragg
2008-02-04, 16:58
M4 with M68 will just be the current specops weapon without fullauto

RustyBandSaw
2008-02-04, 17:07
Perfect for the crewman kit, but M4 M68 ? Pics please

Google it.

M4 M68 = M4 w/ Reflex Sight

Jaymz
2008-02-04, 17:14
M4 with M68 will just be the current specops weapon without fullauto

Correct and yes, L22 carbine has been dicussed.

@ Skeletor: G3A3 handling and recoil has beed changed a lot. It's improved a lot. No reason why a player would grab a kit with an SMG that has 3 mags and 1 smoke grenade for infantry combat.

@ Romangolo: That's not a QBZ95b, the "b" variant is the one we currently have for PLA SF whom in RL actually use it's big brother, hence the change. Even though the "b" variant is not fielded yet it's intention is a PDW, so for added variety we issued it to PLA creman.

Brummy
2008-02-04, 17:53
Spike;600574']http://world.guns.ru/assault/sa80-l22a1.jpg
L22A2 carbine, as issued to Royal Armoured Corps tank crews in Iraq.

i guess this is the sort of weapon your looking for, for the Brits crewman kit.

I think that the DEVs chose not to use it because it would need a whole new model for just one kit.

Ghost1800
2008-02-04, 18:49
Wait, so the PLA crewman and SF swapped weapons, but how come the MEC SF still have an SMG (why not give them a G36 or something).

ReadMenace
2008-02-04, 19:07
USMC : M4 M68
http://tri.army.mil/LC/cs/csi/m4carb.jpg

The M68 is the Aimpoint reflex.

-REad

Rambo Hunter
2008-02-04, 19:37
Perfect for the crewman kit, but M4 M68 ? Pics please

M4 Carbine w/ M68 Aimpoint sight. AKA US Spec Ops weapon (except with burst instead of full auto)

Spaz
2008-02-04, 19:59
Nice changes, now what will the pilots get :roll:

KP
2008-02-04, 20:14
*cough* P90 for MEC crewman *cough*

S.P.C-[Reality]-
2008-02-04, 20:46
are these changes going to be in the patch?!

Cp
2008-02-04, 21:07
*cough* P90 for MEC crewman *cough*

*cough* +1 *cough*

Katarn
2008-02-04, 21:12
Wait, so the PLA crewman and SF swapped weapons, but how come the MEC SF still have an SMG (why not give them a G36 or something).

The HK53 is not a submachine gun. It uses 5.56x45mm NATO rounds. It is essentially a compact G3 using the newer, smaller cartridge.

DeePsix
2008-02-04, 21:16
The changes look good!

Ghost1800
2008-02-04, 21:55
eh sorry, just looks almost like an MP5.

Bob_Marley
2008-02-04, 22:09
Katarn;600932']The HK53 is not a submachine gun. It uses 5.56x45mm NATO rounds. It is essentially a compact G3 using the newer, smaller cartridge.

Yes it is.

I see its time for a lesson in H&K designation once again.

First Number = 5

Cross reference this with the H&K numbering system, we find it means submachine gun.

Second Number = 3

As above, this means 5.56x45mm.

Ergo, HK53 = Heckler & Koch Submachine Gun, 5.56x45mm.

(Source) (http://www.hkpro.com/numbers.htm)

DeePsix
2008-02-04, 22:15
I didn't know that. And Now I do!

I thought the number after the letters was the total amount of M1913 rails you could attach to it? :D

Onil
2008-02-04, 22:48
I think the CAR15 or the M733 would be more appropriate for the US crewman kit

ratlover232
2008-02-04, 22:50
Well stated.

Pariel
2008-02-04, 22:58
I think we can safely assume that the world in general places guns which fire a 5.56 rifle round into the "assault rifle" category, rather than the "submachine gun" category, which it would be if it fired, say, 9mm. See the M4 for reference (given that the 9mm version of it is often referred to as a submachine gun, and the 5.56 as an assault rifle, it is especially appropo).

Eddiereyes909
2008-02-04, 23:04
bob your my hero

Slavak
2008-02-04, 23:04
+2 to P90, I love that thing.

Spec
2008-02-04, 23:15
Now, the question is: is there a difference between the definition of "submachinegun" and "Maschinenpistole"? Maybe small carbines also count as Maschinenpistole for HK somehow. There is no "carbine" option, so maybe they had to chose between Rifle and SMG, and thought SMG would fit better? That code is pretty old



...

Hooowever, doesnt matter at all

BetterDeadThanRed
2008-02-05, 01:54
*cough* P90 for MEC crewman *cough*

*Ahem*




P90 FOR MEC




/*Ahem*

Hotrod525
2008-02-05, 01:59
Can Medic have M4A1 ?

HughJass
2008-02-05, 03:05
the crewmen are now 1337 ops, finally

GrayeKnight
2008-02-05, 03:16
You amaze me.

Nice changes, btw ;)

CptMichael
2008-02-05, 08:19
now we need a L22 for the brits.

That one is the best british ever :)

Fearosius
2008-02-05, 09:19
Hmm, why not give US crewman iron-sight M4 when US army is done? Bit unfair for other teams but since when do crewman engange ground combat =)

Bob_Marley
2008-02-05, 10:20
Onil;601074']I think the CAR15 or the M733 would be more appropriate for the US crewman kit

Can Medic have M4A1 ?

Neither of these suggestions make any sense. At all.

The M733 (and the rest of its Colt Commando bretheren) were phased out of the US military in favor of the M4 series.

And medics arn't arbitrarily issued full auto carbines when the rest of the troops are carrying full sized, burst restircted assualt rifles.

Sparky Speirs
2008-02-05, 13:40
L22A2 carbine would be nice for the British crewman kit!:-)

I like the changes Heavy Anti-Tank kit.:thumbsup:

KP
2008-02-05, 15:37
It must be said: I do love the HK53.

Hotrod525
2008-02-05, 16:08
Bob_Marley;601413']Neither of these suggestions make any sense. At all.

The M733 (and the rest of its Colt Commando bretheren) were phased out of the US military in favor of the M4 series.

And medics arn't arbitrarily issued full auto carbines when the rest of the troops are carrying full sized, burst restircted assualt rifles.

Dont the Medic have a shortest rifle due to Medic Pack he's carrying ? Ok it was may be not F.A. but i'm sure a medic whit all that stuff dont carry a long M16A4...I'm may be wrong, but i think it make sense.

http://www.mccoy.army.mil/vtriad_online/10132006/images/Medic_Mobilization_Tng_A_300x.JPG

Rudd
2008-02-05, 22:13
Dont the Medic have a shortest rifle due to Medic Pack he's carrying ? Ok it was may be not F.A. but i'm sure a medic whit all that stuff dont carry a long M16A4...I'm may be wrong, but i think it make sense.


Medics are issued standard issue rifles I'm sure.

If medic is to get anything it should be in the realms of healing capabilities/ making the healing system more realistic.

Don't be so eager to shove self-healing rambos in to the battle.

BloodBane611
2008-02-05, 22:14
Some VERY interesting changes, I can't wait to see how these pan out. The different track with the HAT kit is one I think I'll like.

Anyhow, Bob, in reference the HK53: Just because H&K marketed it as a submachine gun does not make it so. Many weapons experts (Ian Hogg for example) consider it a short assault rifle, as it really occupies a place in between the two. Rifle power in an SMG sized package, hence its popularity with units that need compact firepower.

MarineSeaknight
2008-02-06, 02:08
The change to H-AT is an interesting one. No doubt now the H-AT will be more comfortable to travel along with the rest of the squad with their new M16A4.

kilroy0097
2008-02-06, 04:41
It's been really hard to find any information on the firearms that British tank crews use in modern day. I just can't find it anywhere. Are there any British military forums that someone could post on filled with current military personnel?

Jaymz
2008-02-06, 05:07
It's been really hard to find any information on the firearms that British tank crews use in modern day. I just can't find it anywhere. Are there any British military forums that someone could post on filled with current military personnel?

It's the L22 carbine and has been discussed by our military advisors months ago. People seem to forget that we have an amazing panel of military advisors with combat experience. It's low priority at the moment.

Outlawz7
2008-02-06, 05:43
I think, a submachine gun would be better or a carbine like crewmen for the Heavy AT...assault rifle just sounds wrong...

Maxfragg
2008-02-06, 16:25
Now, the question is: is there a difference between the definition of "submachinegun" and "Maschinenpistole"? Maybe small carbines also count as Maschinenpistole for HK somehow. There is no "carbine" option, so maybe they had to chose between Rifle and SMG, and thought SMG would fit better? That code is pretty old



...

Hooowever, doesnt matter at all

HK really made a difference between carabines and their SMGs, simply the SMGs are more kompact, no matter if they use rifle or pistol ammunition. The HK Carabine with 5.56mm of this era would be a HK33KA1 (we germans write Karabiner for carabine)
-HK33 barrel length: 390 mm
-HK33KA1 barrel lenght: 322 mm
-HL53 barrel length: 211 mm

Jaymz
2008-02-06, 16:44
I think, a submachine gun would be better or a carbine like crewmen for the Heavy AT...assault rifle just sounds wrong...

errmm vanilla?

In real life they would still carry their assault rifles. It's just that it would be carried in two seperate parts by two seperate soldiers whom would than have to set it up when a target is spotted.

This is why the arming/aquiring/tracking delay's are so harsh. Because we can't portray two soldiers having to set it up.

Sabre_tooth_tigger
2008-02-06, 18:26
So is the HK53 related to a MP5

Sabre_tooth_tigger
2008-02-06, 18:37
MrD;600633']Guys, the search for an animator goes on, to add new weapons into the games engine. Until then, the SA80 series carbine is going to wait, but you can at least view it on a table with MP5, Kalashnikov variant and a few other "toys"


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/MrDestructo1/IMG_0889.jpg



Whats the two big toys on that table?

creepin
2008-02-06, 21:24
guys, you know what i would really love to see?
H-AT and Pilot Kits with MP7 or something equivalent.
The MP7 was designed to be a PDW (Personal Defence Weapon), and to be carried just like a pistol.

Has any1 seen the movie stealth, when the pilot ejects, she takes out her mp7 before.

Jackoboy
2008-02-06, 22:35
guys, you know what i would really love to see?
H-AT and Pilot Kits with MP7 or something equivalent.
The MP7 was designed to be a PDW (Personal Defence Weapon), and to be carried just like a pistol.

Has any1 seen the movie stealth, when the pilot ejects, she takes out her mp7 before.


that was a totally fake movie...

Jaymz
2008-02-07, 05:50
Has any1 seen the movie stealth, when the pilot ejects, she takes out her mp7 before.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/rdevjaymz/no-comment.jpg

Fearosius
2008-02-07, 06:06
I would much rather a PDW for HAT kits, such as the vanilla guns for the AT kit, I mean if HAT are going to get taht much equipemtn, at least make them run slower or something.

Phoenix.86
2008-02-07, 09:41
So is the HK53 related to a MP5

A quote from hkpro.com, a pretty reliable source regarding HK weapons:

Rifle power in a submachine gun package, the HK53. It is truly neither rifle, nor submachine gun, but a strange mixture of both. A submachine gun is defined as a select fire weapon, fired from the shoulder using a pistol cartridge. However, with only an 8.3 inch barrel, the HK53 hardly qualifies as a rifle. The HK53 fills the void where pistol cartridge submachine guns like the MP5 or MP5/10 and MP5/40 may not be suitable against armored suspects.

Many parts of the HK53 are interchangeable with the MP5, they are so similar in size. The example above shows us the newer style concave buttplate that until recently was only reserved for the MP5 series. It is now available for the 33 and 53 series. The forks are slightly longer on this model than for the MP5 series. The four prong flash hider seen here is now standard. It does much more to suppress the flash from this short barreled weapon than did the more standard flash hider seen on the 33 and G3.

There is also a frangible ammunition adapter offered as an option that provides the necessary back pressure to cycle the HK53 reliably with very light .223 caliber frangible ammunition that is now available for entry situations where deep penetration is more undesirable. This may prove somewhat unnecessary, since the national trend of adopting .223 caliber firearms for tactical entry is proving that there is generally less ancillary penetration of conventional .223 caliber projectiles than even pistol caliber submachine guns.

Terminal Boy
2008-02-07, 11:39
Whats the two big toys on that table?

M2 .50 Cal on the RHS edge of the table and FN MAG 7.62 NATO MG in the middle.

FN MAG = Brit GPMG = US M240.

creepin
2008-02-07, 17:22
u guys focused too much on my mentioning of the movie, my intention was that pilots get something better a mp7 as their pdw is an example!

WeeGeez
2008-02-08, 16:19
How about suitable placeholder? Vanilish MP5? MP7?...

Yeh, what about those MP7's?

was thinking maybe a great sidearm for pilots/crewman members...

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-08, 18:59
Looking forward to these changes.

Bob_Marley
2008-02-08, 19:31
Yeh, what about those MP7's?

was thinking maybe a great sidearm for pilots/crewman members...

Show me a reputable source confirming the MP7 being used in such a role for one of the militaries currently* featured in PR and there may be something to talk about.

*Before anyone gets smart, yes the Germans are moving over to the MP7 from the MP2, and yes, they will be featured, provided of course that the community mod is deemed to meet PR's standard of implimentation. This is not relevent to the current topic at hand.

WeeGeez
2008-02-09, 00:06
Okie dokie then bobo. :smile:;)

agentscar
2008-02-09, 06:16
Nice,sounds,nice.This may sound dumb,but could GB,possibly use the MP5,if nothing else arises?I know that sound dumb but...NVM...:lol:

Jaymz
2008-02-09, 21:46
bump,

MP5A3 set as MEC crewman PDW based upon military advice from Eddie Baker.

Eddie Baker;604957']The MP5 is all over the place in the ME and is license produced by Turkey, Iran and Pakistan.

Spec
2008-02-10, 00:59
But with the MP5, now give them at least one extra mag, 9mm vs 5.56 seems really unfair imo.

Sabre_tooth_tigger
2008-02-10, 13:47
Its not armour piercing either, so hopefully its accurate enough for consistent headshots

Bob_Marley
2008-02-10, 17:19
Jaymz;604993']bump,

MP5A3 set as MEC crewman PDW based upon military advice from Eddie Baker.

I'll get you for this eddie...

I'll get you...

I shall have the P90 in PR...

Symplify
2008-02-10, 18:08
I like. Could give the British an MP7 or a P90 just for fun :P

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-10, 21:50
Bob_Marley;605706']I'll get you for this eddie...

I'll get you...

I shall have the P90 in PR...

But we can't :(

I would actually disregard my officer kit for the sacred P90 D:

Sabre_tooth_tigger
2008-02-10, 21:57
I'd be happy with one of those cannons they get on robocop at the end

Eddie Baker
2008-02-10, 23:00
Bob_Marley;605706']I'll get you for this eddie...

I'll get you...

I shall have the P90 in PR...

YES! TEARS! Tears of unfathomable sadness!! Let me taste them! :mrgreen:

Spec
2008-02-11, 12:08
So what about some extra ammo for the MP5, since its prolly totaly underpowered? Or less deviation as SMG-bonus perhaps... dunno

joselucca
2008-02-11, 15:49
Great improvements, specially on the HAT...they definitely needed a rifle.
And on another note HK53...submachine gun...assault rifle? WHO CARES...it is AWESOME!

Finally...its spelled C-A-R-B-I-N-E and not CARABINE...no extra A.
Carabine+r = is a metal loop with a sprung or screwed gate. It can quickly and reversibly connect components in safety-critical systems. The word comes from "Karabinerhaken", meaning "hook for a carbine" in German.

Thank you and good night.;-)

Spec
2008-02-11, 17:37
Well, but since the word "Karabiner" in german also means carbine, its quite understandable people write that extra a.

kilroy0097
2008-02-12, 05:17
Jaymz;600428']Crewman PDW

Having crewmen with full sized assault rifles was a little bit ridiculous. Getting a G3A3 out of a burning T90 would be a little bit too much hastle in RL:p. So we've issued them more feasible firearms.

GB : No suitable replacement at this time.



Ok. After posting on many different Q&A sites and lots of internet searches I finally got an answer on the Great Britain Tank crews and what they actually carry in modern day. This is not confirmed but it's a possible answer.

For a sidearm they use the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and for a longarm they wield the short version of the SA80 assault rifle.

Does this sound right to you people? Devs?

Jaymz
2008-02-12, 06:11
Does this sound right to you people? Devs?

Yes, it's the L22A2. A carbine variant of the SA80, it's been mentioned several times in this thread:p. But thanks for researching for us either way :) :thumbsup:

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-12, 06:20
Jaymz;607214']Yes, it's the L22A2. A carbine variant of the SA80, it's been mentioned several times in this thread:p. But thanks for researching for us either way :) :thumbsup:

In truth, you could just give them a pistol for the time being. It's not like you often need to escape from the C2.

Darkpowder
2008-02-13, 09:33
Jaymz;600428']
Due to the delay systems used to portray setting up H-AT systems and acquiring targets, we have come to the conclusion that issuing them Assault Rifles will allow the kit better integration into infantry squads.


Oh dear, the only way in my opinion the HAT can remain a specialist kit is to keep the pistol, (even a carbine/SMG would be better perhaps) with players opting for the light-AT if you want a rifle.

Its a fine move for realism, but a shame that the HAT is going to be seen scattered to the wind littering the map where the people that carry them will fall. I suppose the SL's are going to have to exert a lot more control to make sure it ends up in the right hands.

All good though i suppose, it just means we are going to see a LOT more captured enemy kits. The pistol keeps even the beginner player back, close to his teammates and keeps a rifleman (normally ammo-guy) as close protection. This was a -GREAT- integrator and almost enforced teamplay. I hope you are going the right way changing this.

Whats the two big toys on that table?

GPMG and .50 cal MG

Ghost1800
2008-02-13, 18:23
Are you kidding? That side arm may not have the range or magazine capacity of the other weapons but is damn accurate while on the move.

IMHO giving H-AT a rifle seems a bit overkill, all they really need is an SMG or another PDW (ironically I think vanilla's MP5 seems the best choice).

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-13, 18:33
Why on EARTH do people keep saying they need an SMG? Or hell, even a PDW?

Personally, I think if it's got a rifle it will encourage the lesser players to fight with it more often, but if the devs think this is a good idea, it's probably a good idea.

Though, if you want to take liberties with the MEC and give him the P90 :p (kidding)

Jaymz
2008-02-13, 18:39
Why on EARTH do people keep saying they need an SMG? Or hell, even a PDW?

They're just worried about people lone wolfing with it and rightly so.

Ghost1800
2008-02-13, 19:25
Why on EARTH do people keep saying they need an SMG? Or hell, even a PDW?

Because as it is right now I can usually solo for an entire round with H-AT on Kashan scavenging off leftover supply crates and disabled bunkers/firebases (usually that I myself have destroyed). I can also put that M9/MR-444 to extremely good use by sneaking up into about 50 meters out and taking 3-4 shots at each guy. Now, you want to give H-AT a rifle that's absolutely fine but I'm saying as a guy that uses the kit quite a lot that the rifle seems like overkill.

Sabre_tooth_tigger
2008-02-13, 19:44
I use HAT solo-ish on Kashan also, its a big map and imo hat resembles sniper in that it should not really travel with a squad all the time. Its a long range killer

The rifle will slow down the HAT rearming I think, if you use it at all. I read that javelin weighs 50kg, the heaviest kit carried on the battlefield. They shouldnt be able to run or at least be as lame as civilian are
Give them a G3 :D

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-14, 00:24
Jaymz;608630']They're just worried about people lone wolfing with it and rightly so.

So a SMG/PDW will stop them from soloing more than a pistol?

DeltaFart
2008-02-14, 21:38
From being on the Americas Army forum, they don't use any submachine guns in the armed forces(it kills kittens when you mention the mp5 there)
No P90 please, A) How would a MEC get a P90? I realize mec is an army but I doubt they would go for the P90 whihc is expensive over the cheap stuff they can get locally
This is PR guys not CoD4
I'd take a Rifle over a pistol anyday
Maybe give the HAT carbines? M4 for US, L22 for UK, HK53 for MEC, and GBZ95B for PLA, INS gets AKSU (USI has one, I bet you could ask them), and Militia gets MP5(they mentioned MP5 is licensed in turkey thats where the milita are at)
Crewman I'd say US M4, L22 UK, MP5 for MEC(cause thats what advisor said), and 95B for PLA, Ins AKSU, Mil MP5

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-15, 13:08
Delta, the MEC are an army funded by SEVERAL nations. Think of them as NATO, almost. Just because they speak Arabic does not doom them to cheap, shoddy equipment. The P90 is an FN weapon that is produced, and is popular in, the middle east.

And using your logic, why would the militia take the MP5 over the cheaper stuff they can get locally?

DeltaFart
2008-02-15, 19:03
Cause its one of the things built in the middle east, its made there, the militia can steal whole shipments of it

Eddie Baker
2008-02-17, 12:59
The P90 is an FN weapon that is produced, and is popular in, the middle east.

FN has not licensed the P90 to be manufactured in any other states. As for popular, the only Middle East state using it is Saudi Arabia, and how many of them are in service over there has not been confirmed.

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-17, 20:21
Really? Bob told me otherwise. :|

Bob_Marley
2008-02-18, 21:20
Really? Bob told me otherwise. :|

Lies.

I have never stated that the weapon is produced in the middle east.

In addition, I would point out that the weapon is also used by The Lebanon and Pakistan, allegedly.

SuperTimo
2008-02-19, 15:13
Bob_Marley;612012']Lies.

I have never stated that the weapon is produced in the middle east.


ouch!!

(two men in black suits come in and take expendable grunt to a secret place)

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-19, 19:07
Bah, I remember Bob saying they where produced and or in use in the middle east.

Farks
2008-02-19, 21:13
I don't quite like giving the H-AT at assualt rifle with optics. Sure, the H-AT has a deployment time, but that's not enough to make it harder to use.

Ghost1800
2008-02-19, 22:57
They don't come with optics...

Jaymz
2008-02-19, 23:01
I don't quite like giving the H-AT at assualt rifle with optics. Sure, the H-AT has a deployment time, but that's not enough to make it harder to use.

read the first post more closely, it clearly states "iron sights".

Razick
2008-02-19, 23:12
I just hope this change doesnt cause the kit to be used like an assault kit. First couple weeks armor is gonna be a huge pain in the ass once the change goes through just watch.

Ghost1800
2008-02-19, 23:29
unless they increase the number of Anti-Tank kits available to the team I don't expect much will change for tankers.

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-20, 01:13
Nah, once someone realizes it can't be used like vBF2 "instafire" tubes, it'll stop being the new assault kit.

ReaperMAC
2008-02-20, 05:21
Why not just give GB the British version of the M4? (The Spec-Ops weapon) and give it a 3-round burst like the USMC?

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-20, 05:44
Why not just give GB the British version of the M4? (The Spec-Ops weapon) and give it a 3-round burst like the USMC?

This might do for now.

Razick
2008-02-20, 07:09
Nah, once someone realizes it can't be used like vBF2 "instafire" tubes, it'll stop being the new assault kit.

People still use the Spec Ops kit even though they get constantly owned at range. Stupid ppl dont get less stupider, they just get stupider somewhere else.

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-20, 07:19
Yes, however you can use all of the spec ops equipment on a whim.

Ironcomatose
2008-02-20, 17:25
People still use the Spec Ops kit even though they get constantly owned at range. Stupid ppl dont get less stupider, they just get stupider somewhere else.

Yeah kinda like rotten milk doesnt get less rotten if you put it in your pants...>_>...<_<...-_-


I think that most of these people are not stupid at all they just dont know any other way to play. I used to be a l337 guy too but once i started to play PR i learned. Most of these "stupid" people will learn too.

DeltaFart
2008-02-20, 21:26
That's what it tkaes to play this. Heck I dont even act as SL cause I know i dont't know enough, I can't micromanage so I let people who can do it, and learn from paying attention

TOME Malambri
2008-02-21, 04:43
People still use the Spec Ops kit even though they get constantly owned at range. Stupid ppl dont get less stupider, they just get stupider somewhere else.

I'm sorry but are you saying the spec ops kit is worthless? Lol what game have you been playing? Two firebase-owning slams and an m4 with good range sounds good to me. It has great range on single shot. Still shoots the NATO 5.56 round, same as the m16. Full auto is only handy within 20-30 feet, but is FAR from worthless.

Want to talk about a worthless gun in .7? The g3!

Ghost1800
2008-02-21, 04:52
I'm really trying to think of a worthless weapon in .7 right now, and the closest I can come up with is the AT-4 and it's equivalents... but definitely not the M4 or that kit's other inventory.

gclark03
2008-02-21, 05:10
How stupid did they have to be to design a scope like the one on the AT4?

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-21, 08:57
I'm sorry but are you saying the spec ops kit is worthless? Lol what game have you been playing? Two firebase-owning slams and an m4 with good range sounds good to me. It has great range on single shot. Still shoots the NATO 5.56 round, same as the m16. Full auto is only handy within 20-30 feet, but is FAR from worthless.

Want to talk about a worthless gun in .7? The g3!

You get 3 slams :D

The older vets and I feel it's "worthless" because the less skilled players often take it over those who would fully apply it's abilities.

And the G3 is far from useless, it's just nobody stops to think about how it differs from the other weapons long enough to use it properly. Try digging into a location, then fighting from it.



Also, the L-AT are far from useless. Quite the opposite, really, this time around -- with the limited ability for HAT to track mobile targets, as well as HAT's lesser availability, the Rifleman AT, with his optic mounted assault rifle, fills a vital role. The biggest problem is that most players with this kit (myself included from time to time) almost feel the rocket burning a hole in their pocket (pocket rocket wooo), and often resort to firing the rocket at infantry (though I don't do this myself). The weapons, especially the UK and US ones, take some skill to properly use, but once you've mastered it, no light transport stands much of a chance.

The down side to this is that light transports have been playing a lesser role in .7, due to the uprising of support trucks, and to a lesser degree the APCs, which may come to pass once the light transports are properly modeled. Just practice a bit, and you'll get the hang of it.

Ghost1800
2008-02-21, 15:32
ya, but thats what I mean. Against hummers, Vodniks, and Nanjings it's great... but you hardly ever see those anymore. Against APC's all you're really doing is pissing the crew off a lot before they swivel there turret in your direction and pump everything within 30 meters of your previous location full of heat rounds. The lessened ability of HAT doesn't really affect this in any noticeable way.

Expendable Grunt
2008-02-21, 16:34
ya, but thats what I mean. Against hummers, Vodniks, and Nanjings it's great... but you hardly ever see those anymore. Against APC's all you're really doing is pissing the crew off a lot before they swivel there turret in your direction and pump everything within 30 meters of your previous location full of heat rounds. The lessened ability of HAT doesn't really affect this in any noticeable way.

If they're doing that, you're doing it wrong. One LAT will seriously hurt an APC if you used it against the back; even against the side it causes it to begin smoking. You don't fire it and sit there in glee, you fire from a distance (at "half arc"), and relocate the second the rocket leaves the tube.

APC goes by.
You rise up, tube in hand.
Fire and move.
APC returns fire at an empty location.

Deadfast
2008-02-21, 21:09
L-AT kit is far from being useless now.

You get a scoped rifle with a tube that can kill anything from infantry up to armored vehicles.
I don't need anything else (not that M-82 would hurt :lol:)

Pariel
2008-02-22, 00:08
I've never experienced difficulty doing significant damage to an APC with a RAT (or LAT, if we're going to stick with the less fun .6 parlance) kit. As far as I can tell, two shots in the rear/turret knocks 'em dead, sometimes in the sides as well, although that can take three.

The only problem I've had is that there's rarely two people with the kit close enough to double tap an APC, and it generally requires a reload. This is probably in part due to all the people rocketing infantry though.

Farks
2008-02-22, 18:09
Jaymz;612771']read the first post more closely, it clearly states "iron sights".
*Slaps myself*

Sorry about that. Well, I guess iron sights are fine...

Razick
2008-02-22, 21:04
I'm sorry but are you saying the spec ops kit is worthless? Lol what game have you been playing? Two firebase-owning slams and an m4 with good range sounds good to me. It has great range on single shot. Still shoots the NATO 5.56 round, same as the m16. Full auto is only handy within 20-30 feet, but is FAR from worthless.

Want to talk about a worthless gun in .7? The g3!

Now where in that short post do I say any of that? Actually where in the whole post do I even place anything about my reference to the kit? Please dont take things out of context towards your favor and please interpret it as its written, now if you can do me the favor and point out where you got all that nonsense.

People still use the Spec Ops kit even though they get constantly owned at range. Stupid ppl dont get less stupider, they just get stupider somewhere else.

Dont worry take all the time you need to search it