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View Full Version : leading , literaly


gazzthompson
2007-07-27, 16:38
i like to be on point so i can take the squad the way I want , because i just cant trust that a random person would know where to go, also the same in convoys , i LOVE being in a 2 wmik convoy on basrah , but because of the high speeds i like to be driving in the lead jeep , tho IRL the leader sits in the GPMG position , what do u guys do ? do u lead or put some one on point , and have u got hints on how to help the guy on point know where to go. i use the move marker alot, but still just cant trust some one else .

ArmedDrunk&Angry
2007-07-27, 16:46
I try to get a point man but most times I am in front even though when I am not SL I'm always telling the SL to fall back and let someone else take point.

That is one of the great things about RP because if it is nearby the SL no longer has to hide in the bushes and be a spawn point.

ReaperMAC
2007-07-27, 18:12
Im usually never on point as SL unless I have too (usually dont). I find it easier to have move markers and telling them why we are headed in that direction etc. Having a point man can offer several advantages:

1. You arent directly in the line of fire, not the first one taken out.
2. Point man can offer warnings in advance.
3. Gives you some time to think once you are in contact with the enemy instead of running for cover.
4. Easier to break contact if forces prove too strong for you and your squad.

If you get taken out first, your squad can get easily picked off and you lose your initiative when attacking your enemy, especially if you are quite far away from your rally point.

daranz
2007-07-27, 18:40
I take the point often, because in PR the best way to get something done properly is to do it yourself. As much as a separate pointman would be useful, a lot of the time it just can't happen. Actually taking the point is often the best way to get the bunch of random sheep behind you to follow you (no offense to sheep). It also has an effect on the "morale" of the squad - if take the point and move decisively, your squadmates will usually follow.

Tartantyco
2007-07-27, 18:43
-I take lead sometimes when away from the front line but other than that I let a SM take lead. I think I'll change my tactics a little and have the point man go further ahead now though so there's a little more room to manouver if we make contact.

Outlawz7
2007-07-28, 01:05
I usually drive the first vehicle in a convoy. Also drive tanks, rarely gun
I like driving tanks, becuase all others have no idea where to go, what to do, never realize, that I may cannot see, what they are looking, turret cant go down that low etc..

Teek
2007-07-28, 06:15
As SL I drive lead and on foot I lead the squad with people just ahead or flanks.

onit
2007-08-01, 10:11
Well, I'm SL for infantry squads, and I never take point. Always have a rifleman on point, even if I have a rally down. When I'm in a squad and the SL is always the first in, I'll plead with him/her to fall back until the area is secure.

AfterDune
2007-08-01, 10:38
When I squad lead, I'm usually pretty close to the frontlines, but not pointman. I always tell someone to take point and where to go (if it's necessary). Especially in jungle maps, where the enemy can be lying down in the grass, waiting for you to show up. In those cases, I tell the point man to go first and the rest of the squad will follow a while later. Too bad we don't have them claymores anymore.. i loved the valley to the east on "Mao Valley" :p.

Ti_GER Niqo
2007-08-02, 11:57
When I'm SL, I almost never take point. If I have one of my clanmates in the squad, I tell him/her over TS, or if possible, via VOIP where to go, and I use the Nav markers a lot. I encourage my squad to move tactically, use the bounding overwatch (leapfrogging) as far as possible, depends on squad. Best Pos for the SL is either at the squads six, if expecting contact, or 2nd after the pointman, for the "leading" part and to guide fire. I personally prefer the six, because you can see your whole squad, and how they do, so u can give them direct orders.

.:iGi:.BLACKWIRE
2007-08-04, 01:50
Lead from the front. There is no other way in public squads, unless you get reliable players you know and have played with before!

Bonsai
2007-08-04, 11:43
Yeah, often it`s hard to get a squad organized in public games.
I use a pointman whenever the situation affords one and it works very well in public games.

What i do is using a commanding tone and show them once that i`m not going to tolerate lonewolfing by ordering someone back into formation and tell him: next time he gets kicked, or kick someone for a good reason.
They have to learn in 2 minutes that you`re the leader and your consequent.
Than you have a really good chance to see organized squad-play.

<1sk>Headshot
2007-12-11, 10:58
This isn't going to matter soon with spawning on SL being taken out.

I like to lead from the front though, it's the only way. Stops people getting spread out and keeps you in formation. Of course, if your in a heavily hostile area you shouldn't be running somewhere you think you're gonna get pwned. I hold back and let people spawn on me until they're finished.

Sadist_Cain
2007-12-11, 12:36
never on point, take away the SL spawning if you want :P Never up on point, cant see what my squad's doing, can't arrange them into formation. you might get the squad to go where you want but that's what the move marker is for. All you get by leading your squad up front is a line of ducklings following mama, who promptly gets shot, If lucky mama duck will be revived while the ducklings scrable for their assault rifles and a good position.

I'll lead from the middle, and somewhere where I can be involved and know whats going on in the battle, if we're breaching a compoung/building, I'll get the squad to hold and go for it when I lob a flashbang (the ABA lads are awesoem for this as it's all down to instinct :P)

If on the attack I'll try to keep the support gunner up front, Ill move onto his right/left flank, order medic to his other side, grenadier further back. and two riflemen on my side where I can point them effectively.

If we have surprise Ill try for a blunt wedge (3 at front, 2 in middle, one at back (grenadier)

If no surprise then an arrowhead formation (figure that out yourself :P)

Support lays down as soon as there is enemy contact and provides cover, grenadier smokes/frags/flashes the hell out of the location if there's a squad, riflemen pick off the strays and move in under cover of support. Medic should revive/heal support and grenadiers, while trying to keep up with riflemen.

Sl should be hanging back, taking well placed shots and LEADING his men into combat. Soldiers who are in the combat should make suggestions to the SL as to what should happen next.

Just remember it isn't a democracy. I often find with clans who cant go anywhere without a fellow clanny following are a pain, as they team up and go for things alone, often want to do things differently cos theyre far more l33t than you. Then complain when things go to hell because the squad didnt have enough men to be effective in their task because the clanvestites we're off on their own.

Nothing against most clans that play on our server, just squad locking and lonewolfing is always frowned upon :P

I've always said take away the minimap, remove friendlies from GPS, thatll force folk into tighter squads :P if you dno where youre m8s are youre likely to walk straight into the enemy with no support, so stick together.

Teampower!

P.S. the big HOWEVER. I find pub gamers quite easy as long as they have a mic and speak reasonable english. Ill push the squads formation by moving myself into point and calling the support saying "why am I here where are you :P"

I dont care if you're pissed on my squad and hate me, Ill let you know where the enemy is, take the hate out on them and keep me alive. That way we stay moving together and all act as one.

SL's should always use move markers. Squadmembers should try to form around the squad leader (not like ducklings behind him :P)

<1sk>Headshot
2007-12-11, 18:09
Every SL has different tactics thats what makes the game so much fun. I'm not a conventional SL in any manner. My ideal lineup if we are moving on a flag is me medic, 3 more medics, support, rifleman. Medic is by far the most useful kit imo. If I'm assaulting an enemy position then of course I'm not going to lead the way, it's situational.

If I'm in front I can take cover as soon as I see an enemy and effectively know where the enemy is AND where to put down fire. Sometimes people are so caught up in the moment of returning fire they don't have time to call out where enemies are. This way I know whats happening and my guys can focus on tearing them up.

Wasteland
2007-12-11, 19:11
If I have a trustworthy NCO (such as when Armed is just angry and not too drunk...) I'll let them take point. Otherwise I like to lead from the front. I'll use markers to identify targets and then withdraw a bit while my squad engages.

I usually use a column formation if I'm in a city, sticking close to the walls. I'll tell my guys to always be aware of where the person in front of you (2 people in front if you can) is scanning, and scan some place else.

blud
2007-12-11, 22:34
SL *shouldn't* be on point, but I find many times I am forced to be. So many players just follow you around and stare at you. Even when I give orders to rush a certain area, people generally won't do it because they are afraid of dying. The thing is that imo it barely matters if they die, because I'm right there for them to spawn back on again - but if I die it can be a huge deal, especially if we're very far from an RP.

Sometimes I assign a point man and try to get people to follow him, but that generally doesn't work as good as it could, 1 because he doesn't have a big number over his head, and 2 because I can't find a point man with balls as big as mine (haha).

Sometimes on Street for example, I'm like go! Go ahead of me, go through this alley! And my guys are just standing there, or advancing 1 inch at a time. Finally I have to be like NO, like this! see watch, and then I run through like a maniac and manage to make it.

Fear of death really holds a lot of people back. I think people would be surprised how well they do if they played more aggressively and didn't worry so much about it. Sure it's nice to have a low amount of deaths, but I don't get much of a kick out of that. What I get a kick out of is trying to do crazy stuff, and sometimes succeeding.


(Oh, and I should say, my preservation of my own life as SL depends strongly on the situation - if we have a nearby spawn, then I go all out and run into bullets, but if our spawn is discovered I go hide under a bush somewhere till we get up a new spawn. That's part of what is cool about being an SL, is the various tactics you need to use, and knowing when to use them.)

Wasteland
2007-12-11, 22:36
It's too bad we can't shoot our men for insubordination.

Sadist_Cain
2007-12-12, 12:50
problem is very very few teenage gamers will actually sit and listen to orders fiven to them cos theyll always know better.
So many times I'll try to gather the guys around an entrance with others at an other entrance, I'll wanna lob the flashbang in and see them run in immediately after the bang, filter along the walls and clear inside, tell me when its clear and then I can move in and we can get the perimeter down and secure the area.

What a usually get is a tard runs his way in before the flashbang and you get something like this.. "UUUM ok I ran in and theres 4 guys on the left but I got one :-)" :roll: WOOPEE!!! you killing one useless squadmember who will respawn and all youve done is let the others know were coming good job! :wink:
The next is the flashbang will go off and I see someone in front of me having a mid life crisis "ohh I dont wanna go in alone, if I go in will I die? What if none of my friends follow me in, I dont wanna go through this gate thouuugh" :roll: BANG!... IN if you die oh well, spawn on me lets try again.
My favorite is we'll be stalking up to the enemy cp getting in the formation to crush them, and Ub3rman who usually goes in and dies so he can usefully tell me who killed him. runs in and sits there and wait and says hey guys :D when you arrive.
If you decided to be a twat and run up ahead of everyone then wtf why dont you SAY wtf you can see up there and let us know if the flag is frigging clear :evil::evil::evil:
OK out of my system relaxed now.

An SL's job isnt to be Bruce willis in die hard, it's to hang back and stay in the fight providing supporting fire, more importantly he needs to be far enough back that he can orchestrate the battle. SL shouldn't have to order each man, he should be able to let the squad know how the enemy is moving, and the squad should be able to realise by their positioning and their situation what they can/cant do then tell your SL! if need be he'll tell his CO and youll have another squad in there.
An infantryman cannot coordinate small arms combat if he is the one on the frontline doing the fighting, he can look cool and try to get the squad to copy him, but that isnt squad leading.

As a squad leader you take the responsiblity to make the 5 tools that you have (aka. people) as effective in combat as possible with your best use of tactics and positioning of your soldiers, and COMMUNICATION
The CO should coordinate the battle, hopefulle 0.7 will see more of them.
If no CO is present then just look where your neededo n the map, we arent bees so we dnt need to flock to the big red jammy attack marker all the time.

I don't mean to rant :D frustrations get to ya sometimes :P

<1sk>Headshot
2007-12-12, 18:27
BludShoT;547832']I'm like go! Go ahead of me, go through this alley! And my guys are just standing there, or advancing 1 inch at a time. Finally I have to be like NO, like this! see watch, and then I run through like a maniac and manage to make it.QFT! That pisses me off so bad.

Outlawz7
2007-12-13, 21:07
On the other hand, we do want people to be afraid of dying...so it's a bit ironic.

Smuke
2007-12-14, 18:00
I sometime find that if you listen to a good S you will succeed, but also if u listen to a bad SL, but help him you will also succeed, running away is pointless.

Drake
2008-04-07, 18:30
So, what do think now that SL spawn has been removed? Do you take point more often now?

I find that both ways has pro's and con's.
Being first, you usually knows first where the enemy is and can direct deadly fire 2 seconds after the contact has been made.(assuming you have a veteran MG and / or GL in your squad) However, this advantage is useless if your dead....

General_J0k3r
2008-04-08, 12:43
i tend to stay in second row but not as far behind as in e.g. .5. still i find it vital to be able to overview the situation and give orders, thus increasing squad cohesion in a firefight which can be lost easily in such a situation.

PFunk
2008-04-08, 21:29
I guess if you don't want to be in front the whole time you better make sure the guy on point has a mic and communicates well.