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View Full Version : Why this map isnt being played anymore?


Spitfire1.2
2017-11-07, 12:37
Sadly when 1.4 came out I was working om my thesis so I missed the whole Falklamds hype.

Nowdays Falklands is rarely being set as the next map (it's not even included in map votes).
Why is that? I do get that from the infantry man's prespective it doesnt have many terrain features.
What do you guys think the problem is? and what can be changed to make it better?

It's sad because so muh work has been done to make this map and noone plays it

Rhino
2017-11-07, 17:56
Map is a little hard to play on a normal public server as you need to work with your air power and Infantry do have a rough time with little cover and not much in the way of transport over open ground (as it was in r/l). As such if your team isn't doing too well, you can get steamrolled and raped pretty easily. I'm hoping at some point to give the map a little more in the way of cover, detail and life for infantry but right now, pretty busy with other stuff.

When the new version comes out again with all the updates that will come with it the hype should be back and also the map should be in a much better playable state. I didn't get to refine the gameplay as much as I had hoped before the last release as I got a chance to travel to Indochina and North America around its release so wasn't able to put in anything like as much as I had hoped, but hopefully will for the next version, if I get time hehe :)

FlyingR
2017-11-07, 19:37
Cause ppl don't know how to play the map

Lugi
2017-11-07, 20:24
Cause nobody wants to play hide and seek between 4 inf squads.

Rhino
2017-11-07, 20:41
Cause nobody wants to play hide and seek between 4 inf squads.

I take it you mean 4 Inf squads between both teams? If so, that seriously isn't the case and The Falklands is the most infantry heavy map, with jets on it, other than Soul Rebel.

To quote an old post, and while the assets are a little out of date it is still pretty much the same setup, other than now on AAS64 your not playing both the North and South routes at the same time and only either North or South so even less of the map is in play for ground forces:
Rhino;1847226']Funny how just because the map has a lot more jets than any other map everyone seems to think this...

This thread here lists all the assets for every game mode and layer: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/115200-falklands.html

Now taking The Falklands AAS 64 (AAS Standard Layer) here is what we have:
GBHMS Invincible4x Sea Harrier FRS1 (Fighter) [5min Delayed Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (A - Ground Attack - 2x 500lb Bombs) [5min Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (C - Ground Attack - 2x 36, 2" (50mm) Rocket Pods, 72 Total) [5min Spawn]
1x Harrier GR3 (B -Ground Attack - 2x 1000lb LGB) [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x Wessex Helicopters [5min Spawn, max of 2]
- ATC, Radar & AA DefencesAtlantic Conveyor (Destroyable)1x Chinook CH1 [10min Delayed Spawn, max of 3]San Carlos / Bomb Alley2x Logi Trucks [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x Landrover Support [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x Scorpion [30min Delayed Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesGoose Green1x RHIB [10min Delayed Spawn]ArgentinaArgentina2x Mirage IIIEA (Fighter) [5min Spawn]
1x IAI Dagger (Fighter Bomber) [5min Delayed Spawn]
2x A-4C Skyhawk (Ground Attack) [5min Spawn]
1x Mirage IIIEA AS (Anti-Shipping) [10min Delayed Spawn]
- ATC, Radar & AA DefencesPebble Island1x A-1H Skyraider (Ground Attack) [5min Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesStanley3x Logi Trucks [5min Spawn]
2x Transport Trucks [5min Spawn]
1x UH-1H Iroquois [10min Spawn, Max of 2]
1x Hippie Van (Support Jeep) [5min Spawn]
- Bunch of AA DefencesGoose Green1x RP [No Respawn]
1x ZPU-4 AAAMt. Tumbledown1x RP [No Respawn]

Basically to summarise, out of 64 players (32 a side):
Brits will commonly have around 7 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all assets have spawned, none have been shot down and the Atlantic Convey has spawned and spawned all of its 3 Chinooks which takes 40mins to do so at the very min assuming that each Chinook was taken off the spawn directly after it spawned, a max of 14 players in vehicles. (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)
Argies will also commonly have around 7 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all the assets have spawned and none destroyed a max of 9 players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)


Now lets take Kashan, a standard 4k map I think everyone would agree where many people will claim its good for infantry combat due to the bunkers in the middle of the map.
USUS Main4x us_tnk_m1a2 [No Re-Spawn]
2x us_ifv_m2a2 [No Re-Spawn]
3x us_tnk_m1a2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x us_ifv_m2a2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x us_aav_avenger [10min Delayed Spawn]
2x us_the_uh60 [10min Spawn]
1x us_ahe_kiowa_alt2 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x us_jet_f16 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x us_jet_a10a [20min Delayed Spawn]
MECMEC Main4x mec_tnk_t72 [No Re-Spawn]
2x mec_tnk_bmp3 [No Re-Spawn]
3x mec_tnk_t72 [20min Delayed Spawn]
2x mec_ifv_bmp3 [20min Delayed Spawn]
3x mec_aav_gopher [10min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_tow_shturm [20min Delayed Spawn]
2x mec_the_mi17 [10min Spawn]
1x mec_ahe_sa341h [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_jet_mig29 [20min Delayed Spawn]
1x mec_jet_su25a [20min Delayed Spawn]
Note: this is also not bothering to list any of the trucks, jeeps, aa etc in the map like I did with the Falklands...

Basically to summarise, out of 64 players (32 a side):
The US will commonly have around 14 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all assets have spawned, none have been destroyed, with a max of 32 players in vehicles. (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)
The MEC will also commonly have around 14 players in vehicles, with a max, assuming that all the assets have spawned and none destroyed, with a max of also 32 players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps and trucks, AA guns etc)


Now so to compare, common amount of players in vehicles:
Falklands GB: 7
Falklands Arg: 7
Kashan US: 14
Kashan MEC: 14

Max amount of players in vehicles (excluding passengers, jeeps, trucks etc):
Falklands GB: 14
Falklands Arg: 9
Kashan US: 32
Kashan MEC: 32

Kashan has double the amount of common players in vehicles, in fact, 1/2 of the server and in its max, waaay over double the amount that the Falklands has, in fact, a slot for every single player in the server as a driver/gunner/pilot...
And basically any other 4km map in PR is pretty much the same story...


Also before anyone comes out with the argument of "The Falklands being 8kms means that the ground combat is waay more spread out", the ground combat is focused into a 3km by 2km area, which is basically the same as a normal 4km map.
Here is the Falklands minimap, with the Kashan minimap overlayed over the NE Falklands where all the ground combat is, and as you can see, and you can see, really nothing different in terms of ground combat area...
http://i.imgur.com/UbGAt.jpg


I can understand why people don't like the map but it isn't for this reason, since it's invalid :p

Lugi
2017-11-07, 20:48
Rhino;2176558']I take it you mean 4 Inf squads between both teams? If so, that seriously isn't the case and The Falklands is the most infantry heavy map, with jets on it, other than Soul Rebel.

To quote an old post, and while the assets are a little out of date it is still pretty much the same setup, other than now on AAS64 your not playing both the North and South routes at the same time and only either North or South so even less of the map is in play for ground forces:



I can understand why people don't like the map but it isn't for this reason, since it's invalid :p

Kashan is frequently played because its an assetwhore wet dream. For inf its mostly boring cause all you can do is clear out bunkers.

Also personally the thing that makes me never want to play Falklands again is that it is such a big map, yet you dont get a scope or binos which makes you basically blind.

Rhino
2017-11-07, 20:55
Ye, The Irons only, combined with such a big VD is a big turnoff for many, although some do prefer the no-scope gameplay.

Lugi
2017-11-07, 21:35
Rhino;2176560']Ye, The Irons only, combined with such a big VD is a big turnoff for many, although some do prefer the no-scope gameplay.

To actually enjoy opticless gameplay there needs to be a specific kind of map - a one that most engages are from around 25 meters, because further than that ironsights are just a liability and lose to scopes every time. So we have maps like Ia Drang and Grozny where ironsights work just fine. But for vast, open maps - just no.

An intermediate solution to make map a bit more popular would be to include binoculars into the kits - they actually give a lot of situational awarness when you can see the things you are supposed to see, not only a couple of pixels.

Heavy Death
2017-11-12, 19:21
Btw Rhino, was the western island never fought over?

Rhino
2017-11-12, 19:25
Btw Rhino, was the western island never fought over?

No main forces were ever fighting there, only the odd SF fight etc and POW camps etc, all the main fighting was on the NE island.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Land.ops.2.en.svg/940px-Land.ops.2.en.svg.png

Rabbit
2017-11-13, 00:38
Rhino;2176842']No main forces were ever fighting there, only the odd SF fight etc and POW camps etc, all the main fighting was on the NE island.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Land.ops.2.en.svg/940px-Land.ops.2.en.svg.png

Generally in a war you want to control a point of interest or OKOCA (Observiving fields of fire, key terrain features, obstacles, cover and concealment, avenues of approach). While generally agreed upon in the military, its used in civilian use as well. Looking at the western island you can see for civilian use, there isnt much use for it. And even with the several landing zones/ hasty airfields op/ artillery outpost there isnt much need for it. Already a key issues with the Eastern island is goose green, its a bottleneck, thus why you see less fighting down there. Now you make it a 15km water crossing, its suicide unless you have air superiority.

Also, great, you occupied an area of 0 interest to the defending force, what stops them from launching the monster of all naval bombardments on you? If its something that falls in okoca, they may want to limit or totally negate all bombardment on the area, save you from all hell.

So pretty much, the western island is useless unless the invading army has air superiority, which they didn't, and because of that few key points to hold. Best case scenario it would be areas they would get 8 digit grids for and do areal denial for.

Edit: but what do I know

Avenged_Fate
2018-01-19, 21:36
Nowdays Falklands is rarely being set as the next map (it's not even included in map votes).
Why is that? I do get that from the infantry man's prespective it doesnt have many terrain features.
What do you guys think the problem is? and what can be changed to make it better?

It's sad because so muh work has been done to make this map and noone plays it

TL;DR: Not enough people for inf fights, iron sights in extremely long map, just not enough coordination to have actually enjoyable gameplay

It's up to the admins to set the maps, and they usually prefer to set maps that won't empty the server due to boredom.

In maps like Bijar, you'll notice that the fight only concentrates itself around the urban area, so the remaining 95% of the map is left empty, with the occasional Fobs and fire fights here and there. Of course there are some really epic moments from time to time, and those are the ones we remember as being true PR moments, but most of the time it isn't like that.

Same thing for Falklands, lot of empty space, only 2 or 3 INF squads per team, with iron sights. Yeah, I know, realism and all, but past 100 meters you can't see anything, which is just not enjoyable at all.

Possible fixes:
-iron sights swapped for scopes (both sides)
-reduction in the number of jets
-increase in servers' sizes (although this is just not going to happen, possibly ever)
-(can't remember more now, but open to suggestions)

SShadowFox
2018-01-21, 12:35
Same thing for Falklands, lot of empty space, only 2 or 3 INF squads per team, with iron sights. Yeah, I know, realism and all, but past 100 meters you can't see anything, which is just not enjoyable at all.

Possible fixes:
-iron sights swapped for scopes (both sides)
-reduction in the number of jets
-increase in servers' sizes (although this is just not going to happen, possibly ever)
-(can't remember more now, but open to suggestions)

Most of your points were dismissed by Rhino on the last page. link (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f562-pr-falklands-general-discussion/146360-why-map-isnt-being-played-anymore.html#post2176558)

I love Falklands and it's a pity that it isn't played much. It forces you to use tactics, you can't see shit past 100 meters, that's fine, just have an MG or AR laying down some fire while the rest of the squad gets closer to engage properly at closer range.

There's more infantry on this map than the average PR 4km map, and despite the whole map area being quite big, the actual "game area" is the same as in a 4km map.

Murphy
2018-01-21, 18:13
The fact that there is only a limited number of assets that can be used on any given map combined with the size of this map (despite having a comparable play area) makes for a lot of open space. Even if there are areas that offer infantry some sort of cover to fight over this game mostly devolves into assets having an unproportional influence over the battle. CAS might not take that many players, and they may not have laser guides munitions but they are largely uncontested after one side establishes dominance. I believe this is why many players knee jerk reaction is "there isn't enough INF". It is because infantry units exert less influence on the outcome of the round by themselves, and CAS can pour munitions down onto the enemy after they have won the initial battle for control of the air space.

I have had many fun rounds on Falklands but I can understand why the general pub round on this particular map can easily suck. If one team has bad pilots the fight is pretty one sided, even dumb bombs can be super effective at clearing a flag when there are few places for infantry to seek cover.

Rhino
2018-01-22, 02:22
Cheers Shadow Fox :D

CAS might not take that many players, and they may not have laser guides munitions but they are largely uncontested after one side establishes dominance. I believe this is why many players knee jerk reaction is "there isn't enough INF". It is because infantry units exert less influence on the outcome of the round by themselves, and CAS can pour munitions down onto the enemy after they have won the initial battle for control of the air space.

I have had many fun rounds on Falklands but I can understand why the general pub round on this particular map can easily suck. If one team has bad pilots the fight is pretty one sided, even dumb bombs can be super effective at clearing a flag when there are few places for infantry to seek cover.

Spawn times of the jets are much lower on the Falklands than standard maps. This is partly because the time to get to and from the islands from the airbase/carrier is much larger than a standard PR map, but even with that extra turnaround time, it is still shorter still to keep air assets in constant battle with each other, so no side can really ever have full supremacy over the airspace.
But yes your point about if one team has much more skilled pilots over the other is a very valid one and even with the constant stream of aircraft heading towards each other, if one side is always beating the other due simply down to skill, then there isn't much I can really do about that from a map design perspective, although I do hope to make the Tigercat SAM deployable in the future to give ground forces a better chance at defending themselves from attacking bombers, but we ideally need to rework the deployable system a bit to do that exactly how I would like.

It should also be noted that in the next major update of the Falklands, with the inclusion of the Frigate, I plan to reduce the amount of CAS the British have somewhat to compensate, and while the Argentines may get a little more CAS to compensate, my hope will be that both the Frigate and the Argentine CAS will be pretty busy fighting each other off most of the time, that both the Frigate and the Argentine CAS won't be focusing very much on the ground forces, giving them a bit of a breather with any luck, as well as I may also increase the spawn tme on the CAS jets while keeping the ASF jet spawns pretty low.

FlyingR
2018-01-22, 13:01
Excellent Rhino, really can't wait for it! Also people forget to build AAs in their FOBs...

Avenged_Fate
2018-02-04, 02:07
Most of your points were dismissed by Rhino on the last page. link (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f562-pr-falklands-general-discussion/146360-why-map-isnt-being-played-anymore.html#post2176558)

I love Falklands and it's a pity that it isn't played much. It forces you to use tactics, you can't see shit past 100 meters, that's fine, just have an MG or AR laying down some fire while the rest of the squad gets closer to engage properly at closer range.

There's more infantry on this map than the average PR 4km map, and despite the whole map area being quite big, the actual "game area" is the same as in a 4km map.

After posting this, I did a little more digging up on the subject, and raised the issue with the DEVs themselves. They told me that they weren't going to change anything on Falklands because of the context it's inserted in and realism.
I've changed my opinions on the subject quite dramatically, actually.


It forces you to use tactics

That's true, it very much does so, but I've never really seen anybody putting actual real-life tactics into practice. It's just running here shooting, running there bombing (Rudy Reyes, GK), trying to get the drop on the enemy team.

Panzer Commander
2018-04-03, 08:38
I have never played it myself, your lucky to get a Vietnam map nowadays aswell.

Raklodder
2018-04-27, 02:03
I think it's a great map, but unfortunately the sheer size of it, might scare some people away.