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Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-06, 22:01
Hi guys, first of all this is not a suggestion or a repeated topic like Hind and Huey (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-vehicles/126315-hind-huey.html) . This is a Feedback about the Mi-24 and some possible bugs.

First of all is the Speed:

The hind can reach a maximum speed of 335km/h and Mi-8 can reach 250km/h the cobra can go 273.59 km/h (170 miles). So hind is faster than the Cobra. In-game the hind is slow and its movements are slow too. But it seems ok since its height is 8,500 and the cobra is 2,630 kg

Check this test videos I've done in another topic

0JV1eubFFXY

The second part is about its weapons:

In-game we have the Mi-24 Hind-E variants and does not follow the reality. It has no zoom for the gunner.

weapons

in game 12.7mm four-barrel Yak-B its load 750 rounds in real life can carry 1,470 and of course lack of zoom source: Mi-24 HIND (MIL) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm) but i could find noting about zoom in the internet.

in game
S8 rockets loaded 64 rounds, status are wrong the S-8( B-8V20 right name) have 80-mm and can be loaded 20 each pod total 40 rockets and also its seems weak that cobra 70mm rocket in real life Mi-24 loads 57-mm S-5 rocket pods its should be the right name and the hind-E can load 2 pod of S-5 32 each pod total 64 and 2 pods of S-8 each 20 total 40, so hind can load 104 rockets i suggest to put a ammo selection for pilot the S-5 same status now and S-8 more damage also there is a fire delay when you click to fire about 1.5 seconds

in game (model) but not working
30-mm Twin Barrel Cannon, GSh-30K its is in the model but not working, in real life the Mi-24v Hind-E not have that cannon because hes had a Yak-B maybe a model mistake?

in game (model) but not working
AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs. loaded 4, 2 per pod this cold make a big difference if that works but why is not? maybe model mistake?

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7992&stc=1&d=1394145349

note the 3M11 Falanga is wrong, is maybe more AT-6C

http://www.brimg.com/uploads/_screen028_1.png
note this image, the S-5 have wrong amount of rocked holes.

Also for balance purpose(if that's could be some reasons why there is not some of equipment here) make a Version of Mi-24v Hind-E whit 64 S-5 pods and 40 S-8( B-8V20 ) pods instead AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGM for maps like Saaremaa and give a AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs and S-8 to hind in maps like Pavlovsk Bay were Americans rolls the air assets.

third hes armor:

In real life the hind can easy resist .50 shoots and some 30mm shells but in game he take damage like the blackhawk and get destroyed quite easy, is arma 3 hes resist pretty well and need 350 shoots to take him down.

soucer:Mil Mi-24 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24) and takistan mod in Arma 3

IqGuTTkgS2w

this part is to suggestions:

what about Hind-E version whit twin barrel 23-mm turret gun? this should put him in par of Cobra also cold use more of the Hind-F he is in the game but there is no map for hin, he is really powerful and have some of the problems from hind-E.

Kerryburgerking
2014-03-07, 10:41
Therre is a hind model which utilize the 30 mm cannons and ATGMs. It's on Silent Eagle ALT

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-08, 03:43
Therre is a hind model which utilize the 30 mm cannons and ATGMs. It's on Silent Eagle ALT

i never see a sever ruining Silent Eagle ALT have some dev seen that topic? any possibility of change?

Careless
2014-03-08, 13:27
The resistance of .50 cal bullets surprises me :O

Tennessee88
2014-03-13, 16:20
The resistance of .50 cal bullets surprises me :O

Forget .50 cal, we were on test airfield the other night and I hit a hind square on with an AP shell from the challenger in the bombing area. Not only did it not go down, it continued its attack on my tank. Took a second shell to finally take it down.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-13, 19:44
Forget .50 cal, we were on test airfield the other night and I hit a hind square on with an AP shell from the challenger in the bombing area. Not only did it not go down, it continued its attack on my tank. Took a second shell to finally take it down.

maybe is a glitch or lag i will try to make a video about that to

Brooklyn-Tech
2014-03-13, 21:15
fdv03AaqCzI#t=344

5:35

hind is faster than apache IRL.

In PR, not even close...

K4on
2014-03-13, 21:25
Is anyone up for redoing the movement physics? Our 'air developers' are all quite busy.
PM me if you got something, help is always welcome.

velocity
2014-03-13, 21:35
I was going to reply to this thread when it first came up; but then I got lazy and went and did something else.

in game (model) but not working
30-mm Twin Barrel Cannon, GSh-30K its is in the model but not working, in real life the Mi-24v Hind-E not have that cannon because hes had a Yak-B maybe a model mistake?

in game (model) but not working
AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs. loaded 4, 2 per pod this cold make a big difference if that works but why is not? maybe model mistake?


So the model inaccuracies are due to (and if I remember correctly) the fact that the model was donated to Project Reality devs. As a result they couldn't remove things from the model such as the 30mm cannons but they could add the 12.7mm turret. The 30mm are simply disabled through coding.

Same story with the ATGMs.

third hes armor:

In real life the hind can easy resist .50 shoots and some 30mm shells but in game he take damage like the blackhawk and get destroyed quite easy, is arma 3 hes resist pretty well and need 350 shoots to take him down.


The key thing to remember here is that ARMA 3 is a military simulation, built on a game engine that is far more capable than the refractor 2 engine used by battlefield 2. Armour, penetration and ballistics are very primitive in PR as a result.

Should also note, shot placement is quite important in taking down choppers in ARMA 3, only takes 10 - 20 .50cal round in ARMA 3 to ruin a hinds day but that is a different subject.

As for anything else, you will need to see if someone more informed than myself responds.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-13, 23:01
I was going to reply to this thread when it first came up; but then I got lazy and went and did something else.



So the model inaccuracies are due to (and if I remember correctly) the fact that the model was donated to Project Reality devs. As a result they couldn't remove things from the model such as the 30mm cannons but they could add the 12.7mm turret. The 30mm are simply disabled through coding.

Same story with the ATGMs.



The key thing to remember here is that ARMA 3 is a military simulation, built on a game engine that is far more capable than the refractor 2 engine used by battlefield 2. Armour, penetration and ballistics are very primitive in PR as a result.

Should also note, shot placement is quite important in taking down choppers in ARMA 3, only takes 10 - 20 .50cal round in ARMA 3 to ruin a hinds day but that is a different subject.

As for anything else, you will need to see if someone more informed than myself responds.

why most of his weapons are disabled, have wrong amount of ammo or wrong names and settings(the lack of S5, S8 named wrong, and AT-6.)? balance purpose? i see no reason why MI-24 have no zoom and the AT-6 not working, im not a modeler(maybe one day who knows :D) but why not remove those 4 ATGMs at the side(close at the cargo door) and put another pod maybe some true S8 more powerful and a S5 weaker and give some ammo selection? and why about put some apc or tank armor with less HP on hin to resist more a .50 shoots an give a low hp and some weak spots like the engine to he takes more damage?

sorry if i rush to much the tings I'm not complaining or require things if you get me wrong.

houdaifatam
2014-03-13, 23:22
I was going to reply to this thread when it first came up; but then I got lazy and went and did something else.



So the model inaccuracies are due to (and if I remember correctly) the fact that the model was donated to Project Reality devs. As a result they couldn't remove things from the model such as the 30mm cannons but they could add the 12.7mm turret. The 30mm are simply disabled through coding.

Same story with the ATGMs.



The key thing to remember here is that ARMA 3 is a military simulation, built on a game engine that is far more capable than the refractor 2 engine used by battlefield 2. Armour, penetration and ballistics are very primitive in PR as a result.

Should also note, shot placement is quite important in taking down choppers in ARMA 3, only takes 10 - 20 .50cal round in ARMA 3 to ruin a hinds day but that is a different subject.

As for anything else, you will need to see if someone more informed than myself responds.

Maybe you'll expect all those things to be in Project Reality 2. Who knows maybe they'll try their best to simulate that. Just wait.

Hokunin
2014-03-14, 12:20
I guess, this mod game is made by westerners for westerners, so it has to cater for its audience, thus some opfor vehicles might be downgraded in-game(for balance purpose too).. And main work-polish focus would be on western faction vehicles, models etc.

Maybe some capable Russian team of modellers could do some work on it for PR.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-14, 13:39
I guess, this mod game is made by westerners for westerners, so it has to cater for its audience, thus some opfor vehicles might be downgraded in-game(for balance purpose too).. And main work-polish focus would be on western faction vehicles, models etc.

Maybe some capable Russian team of modellers could do some work on it for PR.

I would like to do this work soon, i like Russian weapons and Hind is my favorite Attack Chopper that's why i make that hard research.

Tim270
2014-03-14, 16:19
The model was not made by the PR team - it was intended as a stop-gap until it was made internally but that seems unlikely to happen. Its more work than its worth at all to take the model back into a 3d package, remove parts, then put it back in game. Just not worth the time or energy. Would be the same if it was a western faction vehicle..

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-14, 17:53
The model was not made by the PR team - it was intended as a stop-gap until it was made internally but that seems unlikely to happen. Its more work than its worth at all to take the model back into a 3d package, remove parts, then put it back in game. Just not worth the time or energy. Would be the same if it was a western faction vehicle..

Still can be made changes in the model? or at least the tweaks?

Tennessee88
2014-03-14, 18:39
maybe is a glitch or lag i will try to make a video about that to

PM me if you need help.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-15, 09:39
PM me if you need help.
you was right, the Hind-F in test air field really need 2 ap shell to be destroyed also hes resist quite well to .50 shoots, its take 2 full mags to destroy is probable a glitch but the hind-E in most of the maps get destroyed easy as i did in the armor test but i cant make a video because my game crash when i try to run some Russian map whit the hind-E.

Rhino
2014-03-15, 10:14
Still can be made changes in the model? or at least the tweaks?

Even small changes to the current model are a lot of work.

Since we don't have its export scene it would require importing the ingame mesh back into 3DsMax. That in itself creates a huge amount of errors to the model and all its lods and cols, which first need to be fixed up before doing any of the changes. Then even removing an object from the current model, assuming its a simple select and delete needs to be done to all the lods and cols which are most likley not going to be a select and delete job and will actually require some remodelling and re-texturing. Any additions you want to add to the model will also need to be UVed and textured, which finding empty UV space on the current sheet may be a challenge especially for anything large and messing around with the textures without its orignal .psd files which we don't have is first of all not easy and second of all creates some re-re-re-compression errors in the texture. Using new texture sheets for any new additions would require new materials which also means more draw calls which doesn't help performance either... Did I also mention that any changes like this then need to also be applies to all the lods which means doing the same thing a few times over? Then there is a matter of re-exporting the model, which assuming you had setup the export excatly like it was to begin with isn't a problem but if one tiny detail is off, the vehicle will need some serious re-coding....

All in all, a hell of a lot of "skilled" work just to even get the object into a state where you can even think about making a few little edits which takes up a lot of time and energy for a few people, which would generally be better spent on getting something brand new ingame that's been sitting on the side lines for god knows how long.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-15, 10:24
Rhino;1990487']Even small changes to the current model are a lot of work.

Since we don't have its export scene it would require importing the ingame mesh back into 3DsMax. That in itself creates a huge amount of errors to the model and all its lods and cols, which first need to be fixed up before doing any of the changes. Then even removing an object from the current model, assuming its a simple select and delete needs to be done to all the lods and cols which are most likley not going to be a select and delete job and will actually require some remodelling and re-texturing. Any additions you want to add to the model will also need to be UVed and textured, which finding empty UV space on the current sheet may be a challenge especially for anything large and messing around with the textures without its orignal .psd files which we don't have is first of all not easy and second of all creates some re-re-re-compression errors in the texture. Using new texture sheets for any new additions would require new materials which also means more draw calls which doesn't help performance either... Did I also mention that any changes like this then need to also be applies to all the lods which means doing the same thing a few times over? Then there is a matter of re-exporting the model, which assuming you had setup the export excatly like it was to begin with isn't a problem but if one tiny detail is off, the vehicle will need some serious re-coding....

All in all, a hell of a lot of "skilled" work just to even get the object into a state where you can even think about making a few little edits which takes up a lot of time and energy for a few people, which would generally be better spent on getting something brand new ingame that's been sitting on the side lines for god knows how long.

yeah, its a pretty hard job for no reward but soon im want to help you guys some way when i finish my CG school. but at least can add the ammo correction and the zoom for the gunner?

Rhino
2014-03-15, 10:28
Code changes are repetitively simple but you would need to talk to Jafar and Nosferatu about that as they iirc where the ones who setup the Hinds originally with Nos providing MA afaik.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-15, 10:32
Rhino;1990490']Code changes are repetitively simple but you would need to talk to Jafar and Nosferatu about that as they iirc where the ones who setup the Hinds originally with Nos providing MA afaik.

do you have contacts to they or could you call they to check this topic?

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-28, 21:56
here are the tests

f96ophArFDQ

did happen some actualization to hind in some patch? he is quite different front the first test, soon i will re make a speed test to.

PlaynCool
2014-03-29, 02:21
Actually hind's armor IRL is supposed to withstand .50 cal bullets, and i know for a fact(read on wiki lol ) that in Aganistan when Russia was there, hinds survived multiple direct rpg hits. So Hind's armor agains .50 is good i think.

Rabbit
2014-03-29, 03:38
here are the tests

f96ophArFDQ

did happen some actualization to hind in some patch? he is quite different front the first test, soon i will re make a speed test to.

If you want to voice concerns over air vehicles its best to have them off heli pads/ air strips as it the two of those could have undergone chances in healing times/ re supply times.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-29, 04:00
Rabbit;1994163']If you want to voice concerns over air vehicles its best to have them off heli pads/ air strips as it the two of those could have undergone chances in healing times/ re supply times.

i make sure they aren't repairing if you want you can do that test at same map and put a air vehicle that's why i repeat all damages test to make sure they aren't repairing, if they are repairing they does not explode.

K4on
2014-03-29, 10:08
so. you made some test videos rogue. but what is your feedback now?

also, have you taken into account that the engine/controls are screwed after the tank hit?
maybe wanna check with a second guy who is actually flying it while you shoot him?
make sure to test this on a dedicated server though, as on a local server this behaves differently.

Prevtzer
2014-03-29, 10:48
The Hind should be faster, it's faster than other CAS choppers IRL but much slower than some in PR. Is this hard to change?

Ghostwolf
2014-03-29, 11:29
Some issues I experienced with the Hind

- Too slow
- Too armored (perhaps 1 AP round from third generation tanks as damage input to burn?)

Agility behaviour, weaponary, design seem to be fine though :)

Roque_THE_GAMER
2014-03-29, 14:45
K4on;1994188']so. you made some test videos rogue. but what is your feedback now?

also, have you taken into account that the engine/controls are screwed after the tank hit?
maybe wanna check with a second guy who is actually flying it while you shoot him?
make sure to test this on a dedicated server though, as on a local server this behaves differently.

this feed back is the damage test to show the armor glitch is dificult to do a test in a dedicated server because i dont meet any admin how can liberated one server to test, i try that but most of they are busy or don't care.

also we don't have to care to much about engine/controls get screwed, because i believe in real life Hind cant resist a 120mm canon shoot right? if that so the Hind is a flying tank lol.

X-Alt
2014-03-29, 15:27
The Hind should be able to take two HE round(s) (but 1 AP=Kaboom) and have an engine fire, perhaps kill the crew in the back or something.. It also should be about 9 Billion times faster than what it is now, like UH-60 sort of fast....

K4on
2014-03-29, 17:14
The Hind should be faster, it's faster than other CAS choppers IRL but much slower than some in PR. Is this hard to change?



what about:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-vehicles/127467-mi-24v-hind-e-full-feed-back-2.html#post1990490

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-vehicles/127467-mi-24v-hind-e-full-feed-back.html#post1990160

Murphy
2014-03-30, 18:08
Wait a sec, so hitting a Hind with an HEAT round wouldn't either A)Send shrapnel through out the cabin most probably injurying and probably killing some of the crew. B)Disorient the crew from the shock of the round hitting the vehicle, even if the crew are largely unscathed the airframe has taken a considerably knock and it's likely to be falling to pieces. If somehow said piece of soviet love survives the energy transferred from the HEAT round to the Hind would send it all over the place, and the only way for an airborne vehicle to go is down.

2 rounds from a tank to destroy a Hind regardless of ammo type is grossly exaggerated and anyone with a half decent grasp of cause and effect, and a very slight understanding of physics and gravity could understand why.

mangeface
2014-04-19, 14:37
Honestly, a HEAT round should be far more effective against an aircraft than an AP round should be. HEAT will fragment, sending shrapnel throughout the fuselage, hitting hydraulic lines, flight control cables and wiring harnesses. Where as a AP would cause a pretty good deal of destruction, but less likely to do the same due to the way it works.

ElshanF
2014-04-19, 14:56
Ofc heat will do more damage but can you implement such a thing in PR

Death!
2014-06-19, 17:46
this feed back is the damage test to show the armor glitch is dificult to do a test in a dedicated server because i dont meet any admin how can liberated one server to test, i try that but most of they are busy or don't care.

also we don't have to care to much about engine/controls get screwed, because i believe in real life Hind cant resist a 120mm canon shoot right? if that so the Hind is a flying tank lol.

Just PM me if you want CIA's Test Airport server password.

Beee8190
2014-06-19, 21:09
I recall CAS were doing quite good job on Khamisiah the toher day till they got shot by lucky tank due to the Hind being mind bogglingly slow, not agile enough and having serious issues to gain altitude

I watched the whole scene right under my UAV as an commander and simply thought that wasn't right. Hind needs to go on diet or something

Pronck
2014-06-19, 21:45
Which lay-out?

X-Alt
2014-06-21, 00:20
Which lay-out?
He probably confused it for Black Gold. Still, the Hind needs to be faster than the cow, period.

Beee8190
2014-06-21, 10:16
Which lay-out?


He probably confused it for Black Gold. Still, the Hind needs to be faster than the cow, period.

Actually I haven't I don't think? Black Gold gets Havoc / Gazelle but we played ( probably alt ) Khamisiah with one jet and Hind - The Russians vs Chinese clash

X-Alt
2014-06-21, 20:39
Actually I haven't I don't think? Black Gold gets Havoc / Gazelle but we played ( probably alt ) Khamisiah with one jet and Hind - The Russians vs Chinese clash
Thats Black Gold, Khamisiyah is MEC vs US.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-02-18, 23:42
you devs have any update? i did not play much in the hind on the last update.

viirusiiseli
2015-06-23, 18:38
Why are the round amounts not up to realistic ones by the way?

IRL the .50cal gatling has nearly 1500 rounds if I'm right and the shipunov has 750 or so.

Mats391
2015-06-24, 14:10
Why are the round amounts not up to realistic ones by the way?

IRL the .50cal gatling has nearly 1500 rounds if I'm right and the shipunov has 750 or so.

Because we hate OpFor factions? What else? :p
Give source for ammo carried and we will fix it :)

FluffyThumper
2015-06-24, 17:23
I'm by no means a modern military expert and i'm more into WW2 technology, but from a quick search both these sites claim 1470 rounds for the YakB.
??-24 ? ??????????? (http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/mi24/mi24.html)
"осле 200:250 выстрелов ЯкБ начинал "плеваться", часто его клинило, и расстрелять без отказа хотя бы 500 патронов считалось уже большой удачей. Рекомендуемый разработчиками огонь короткими очередями не всегда был уместен в горячке боя. Поэтому штатный боекомплект в 1470 патронов урезали втрое, идя на это еще и из экономии веса."
Mi-24D (http://www.hudi.republika.pl/Mi-24D.htm)
"W jego skład wchodzi czterolufowy karabin maszynowy JaKB-12,7 (nazwa fabryczna TKB-063) kalibru 12,7 mm. Jego szybkostrzelność teoretyczna wynosi 4000 do 5000 wystrzał?w na minutę. Zapas amunicji wynosi 1470 sztuk (750 w wariancie desantowym)"

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-06-24, 17:39
Yet there's weren't loaded more than 500, and gun were jamming a lot after 200-250 rounds.

viirusiiseli
2015-06-24, 17:39
Mats391;2082046']Because we hate OpFor factions? What else? :p
Give source for ammo carried and we will fix it :)

Wikipedia, provides the same numbers as this site. (http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm) See under "Armament" in the fourth paragraph.

Internal guns: flexible 12.7 mm Yakushev-Borzov Yak-B Gatling gun on most variants. Maximum of 1,470 rounds of ammunition.
fixed twin-barrel GSh-30K on the Mi-24P. 750 rounds of ammunition.

750 - 1x twin 30-mm gun, or
1,470 - 12.7-mm 4 barrel turret gun

Also, the YAK-B gatling in most cases is loaded with Duplex rounds, meaning for each cartridge, you'd get 2 rounds.

Yet there's weren't loaded more than 500, and gun were jamming a lot after 200-250 rounds.

I think for gameplays sake it could be up to the maximum amount, as the .50cal is nowhere near overpowered or has too much ammunition. Same case for the cannon.

FluffyThumper
2015-06-24, 17:45
Yet there's weren't loaded more than 500, and gun were jamming a lot after 200-250 rounds.

PR doesn't reflect unreliability and the gun still works after overheating, so i don't see why not add the 1470 rounds.

ComradeHX
2015-06-24, 17:51
Yet there's weren't loaded more than 500, and gun were jamming a lot after 200-250 rounds.

PR does not reflect tank loader getting tired either, should we lower blufor tank reload speed too?

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-06-24, 18:14
PR does not reflect tank loader getting tired either, should we lower blufor tank reload speed too?
While i completely agree with that point, bf2 engine doesn't allow to simulate that behavior without really dirty tricks.

It's also a thread about mi-24.
To add a point about limited ammo, i have to say that it's also weren't full most of times because of ammo weight.

X-Alt
2015-06-24, 19:01
While you're at it, give the A-10 1000 30mm rounds, it's unlikely you'll waste all your .50.

ComradeHX
2015-06-24, 20:44
While i completely agree with that point, bf2 engine doesn't allow to simulate that behavior without really dirty tricks.

It's also a thread about mi-24.
To add a point about limited ammo, i have to say that it's also weren't full most of times because of ammo weight.

If we are going to use something that only holds 500 rounds, why not just put the 23mm gun back on?

It's not like it would be OP or anything.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-06-24, 21:19
If we are going to use something that only holds 500 rounds, why not just put the 23mm gun back on?

Then we would have to rename it to VP:razz:
Also, GSh-23 has 460 rounds.

The problem is that then we would have to change model, which is impossible atm, and, as GSh-23 has practically same ROF as JakB while using more powerful rounds, it would mean buff to opfor - illuminati would not approve :)

EDIT: As for updating ammo count for Jak-B up to 1470 rounds - it's isn't possible for bf2 engine with 1.5 patch, we're not allowed to have more than 1023 rounds for any gun.

mat552
2015-06-24, 22:01
I don't see why making it 1000 rounds even would be a problem, it is just 12.7, you'll want to go back long before you exhaust that for real weapons that actually do damage like rockets.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-06-24, 22:10
It's already 1000 ammo for JakB afaik(light mi-24), so original virus's question seems to be answered? :)

viirusiiseli
2015-06-24, 23:24
It's already 1000 ammo for JakB afaik(light mi-24), so original virus's question seems to be answered? :)

750 is what it's at ATM. But if it's true you cant add more than 1000, then 1000 should be done imo. And the GSh-30K needs 750 instead of 250.

And to people saying you wont exhaust 1000 rounds of ammo think again. (http://i.imgur.com/779he8l.jpg)

The "real weapons" aka rockets got 32, .50cal doing 121. Which one is more useful? It all depends on flying style so don't spit out an opinion as truth.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-06-25, 08:40
750 is what it's at ATM. But if it's true you cant add more than 1000, then 1000 should be done imo. And the GSh-30K needs 750 instead of 250.

That's noted, thanks.

X-Alt
2015-06-25, 19:32
That's noted, thanks.
Wouildn't be that great of an idea, almost all air vehicles have their cannon ammunition reduced greatly, really no need for extra ammunition either. What the Mi-24P needs is the removal of LTs and the Laser Designator, not only is the Shturm a SACLOS only weapon, but is also extremely offset at distance.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-08-05, 17:50
EDIT: As for updating ammo count for Jak-B up to 1470 rounds - it's isn't possible for bf2 engine with 1.5 patch, we're not allowed to have more than 1023 rounds for any gun.

what about 2 mags of 735 with 1 second reload?

It's already 1000 ammo for JakB afaik(light mi-24), so original virus's question seems to be answered? :)

what?

http://imgur.com/h7TauCr


also still slow one year later.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 13:51
why the hind got nerfed so hard in this update?

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-06, 14:07
Was it?
http://cs6.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/03/27/10/1395933832_1090768258.gif

blayas
2015-11-06, 14:13
nerfed? maybe the devs are just making Hind versions more like their real homologous, and there is more than one version, if the mapper find Hind that one needs more power in a given map, it may substitute to another version.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-06, 14:16
Optics, ammo, firerate values has been changed as much as possible to real one.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 14:25
Was it?
http://cs6.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/03/27/10/1395933832_1090768258.gif


>Updated Mi-35 and Mi-24V gunner to have no zoom or thermals.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 14:28
Optics, ammo, firerate values has been changed as much as possible to real one.

what are the sources of this?

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-06, 14:30
http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/mi24.htm
??-30? (http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/gsh30k.html)
??-24 ? ??????????? (http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/mi24/mi24.html)
Attack Helicopter MI-24 Hind (http://www.enemyforces.net/helicopters/mi24.htm)
Mi-24 HIND (MIL) (http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm)
Mil Mi-24 helicopter - development history, photos, technical data (http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-24.php)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-30-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak-B_12.7mm_machine_gun

That's like for example.

You have to keep in mind that flight physics still the same(yet ;))

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 14:41
http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/mi24.htm
??-30? (http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/gsh30k.html)
??-24 ? ??????????? (http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/mi24/mi24.html)
Attack Helicopter MI-24 Hind (http://www.enemyforces.net/helicopters/mi24.htm)
Mi-24 HIND (MIL) (http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm)
Mil Mi-24 helicopter - development history, photos, technical data (http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-24.php)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-30-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak-B_12.7mm_machine_gun

That's like for example.

You have to keep in mind that flight physics still the same(yet ;))

were is about the zoom and thermals?

X-Alt
2015-11-06, 14:42
what are the sources of this?
Basically anything pre-1998 and Soviet doesn't have Thermals.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-06, 15:14
were is about the zoom and thermals?
Those refs were mostly required for ammunition and firerates, but they do have some info bout optics too.

The Mi-24V using КС-53(KS-53) collimator sight, which is doesn't have any zoom nor thermals.
http://pics.livejournal.com/igor113/pic/00191t6y

If you have any multiple soruces proving that mi-24v in common used thermals&optics, we're gladly will 'anti-nerf' it back :D

[F|H]Zackyx
2015-11-06, 15:59
Was it?
http://cs6.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/03/27/10/1395933832_1090768258.gif

Funny because the picture you used feature a Mi-24V(Mi-35) using a GOES-342 which has all the latest tech Lowlight,IR,TV,laser... Most of the Mi-24V have been upgraded ( to this standard i think the upgrade program is still ongoing. And the upgraded versions were the one used in Crimea last year, so they should be featured in game since Russia used for a real operation.

PfuCt0ZjzE0

http://maks.sukhoi.ru/media/photo/maks2003/maks2003d1141.jpg

GOES (Gyro Stabilized Electro-Optical System) −342 provides round-the-clock surveillance and the aiming capability to fire guided missiles. It incorporates a field-of-view stabilization system, a TV channel, a Module-Avia thermal imaging channel, a laser rangefinder and a direction finder.

The GOES-342 system weighs 185 kg and its EO device measures 460 mm x 613 mm. It incorporates a field-of-view stabilization system, a TV channel, a Module-Avia thermal imaging channel, a laser rangefinder and a direction finder. Sighting in azimuth is provided in a range of +/-230 deg., in elevation -from -115 deg. to +25 deg.

GOES-520 is a day/night surveillance system intended for terrain surveillance, search and acquisition of landmarks and obstacles. The system weighs 45 kg and its EO device measures 350 mm x 500 mm. It includes a low-level TV and a thermal imaging channels and provides sighting in a range of +/-180 deg. in azimuth and from -85 deg. To +35 deg. in elevation.

More funny is the second picture you posted has also feature a sight with ZOOM , the PTUR sight ocular is located on the starboard side of the operator?s cockpit witch indicate that the Helicopter is equipped with Raduga-Sh "pod" description below.

http://pre05.deviantart.net/3234/th/pre/i/2011/313/5/9/raduga_sh_by_stealthflanker-d4fo8pz.jpg

The Raduga complex included a new target aiming and acquisition system. It was originally a submarine periscope dating back to the 1930s mounted upside down! The top side of the latter was in the right front corner of the WSO cockpit, while the other end of the periscope was located inside a new fairing below the right side of the nose. But, of course, this piece of equipment that was obviously satisfactory had to be adapted to its new task. Thus, the mirror was gyro-stabilized. Also, it was possible to choose between a narrow or wide field of view. An integrated thermal seeker allowed automatic tracking of the position of the missile, the latter being equipped with two tracers at the rear. The trajectory of the missile was then corrected by radio-link, while the WSO continually kept the sight crosshairs on the target until impact. Two small metal doors protected the windows of the optics when not in use.

The missile guidance antenna of the Raduga-Sh (Sh for 'Shturm') was a little more bulky. This moving antenna was housed inside a fixed teardrop fairing with a black dielectric panel in front, attached to the left side of the nose turret. This fairing made it possible to distinguish definitively a Mi-24V from a Mi-24D. The pilot was employing a new ASP-17V automatic sight that could be used for firing the nose machine-gun in a fixed (zero) position, to drop bombs and fire unguided rockets (5). The first "Hind-E" models had no PZU air intake filters in front of the turbines. These filters were fitted out on the later Mi-24V series and they were often retrofitted on the early series machines, as well as on the Mi-24D. The Mi-24V of the GSFG were not equipped with the SPO-15 Bereza RHAWR that could be recognized by its prominent fairings positioned behind the cockpit and on the tail boom. They retained instead the older SPO-10 system.

So both versions of Raduga should feature thermals.
So i hope you gonna fix your mistake next patch.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-06, 18:08
Zackyx;2104954']Funny because the picture you used feature a Mi-24V(Mi-35)
I used that picture to pinpoint to on a main "buff" change regarding ammocount and firerates(iirc hind have most physical ROF ingame atm due to bug in dice engine with batches in multibarrels), optics is different story.

Regarding your optics researches on GOES-342 system. Sadly, but that's not applied to in-game versions of helicopter because we're using old non-modernized hinds.
http://i.imgur.com/OAvPUfw.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/oD7mBAO.jpg

Bout the second picture with Raduga, many thanks for correction. When i were kid and visiting local airbase ~10 years back, should have paid attention what those serious army dudes were telling us :)
If you could be so kind and provide additional sources for Raduga you know, then we're probably going to re-take a look on mighty hind ;)

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 18:21
I used that picture to pinpoint to on a main "buff" change regarding ammocount and firerates(iirc hind have most physical ROF ingame atm due to bug in dice engine with batches in multibarrels), optics is different story.

Regarding your optics researches on GOES-342 system. Sadly, but that's not applied to in-game versions of helicopter because we're using old non-modernized hinds.
http://i.imgur.com/OAvPUfw.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/oD7mBAO.jpg


why not just add it to the old hinds as a stopgap wile we don't have new models?

Mineral
2015-11-06, 18:23
That's not how we do things. This ain't BF4 :) But if you make the model for us then surely that would help a long way ;)

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-06, 18:44
Mineral;2105002']That's not how we do things. This ain't BF4 :) But if you make the model for us then surely that would help a long way ;)

what? how about MEC representing a lot of factions and the T-62 being a stopgap to the T-55 in some maps and factions that never comes out? :confused:

Mineral
2015-11-06, 18:46
T-62 is not on any faction where it doesn't belong? Militia and FSA only. Both actually known to use them?
MEC only uses vehicles that are used by countries in the middle-east? Anyway, that's not really comparable anyway.

You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T72 variant like ours, and adding barrel launched ATGM for it, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.

X-Alt
2015-11-06, 21:47
Mineral;2105010']
You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T72 variant like ours, and adding barrel launched ATGM for it, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.
You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T-72 variant like ours, and adding a French TIS and IR blocking smoke, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.

Roque_THE_GAMER
2015-11-07, 23:48
You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T-72 variant like ours, and adding a French TIS and IR blocking smoke, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.

i dont get it.

camo
2015-11-08, 00:13
You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T-72 variant like ours, and adding a French TIS and IR blocking smoke, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.

hue cheeky, t72 doesn't have ir blocking smoke, commander no longer has TIS. Gunner kept it because people would complain. :mrgreen:

Armchairman_Mao
2015-11-09, 14:08
camo;2105218']hue cheeky, t72 doesn't have ir blocking smoke, commander no longer has TIS. Gunner kept it because people would complain. :mrgreen:

I thought T-72 was a placeholder for T-72B or something, since it's symmetrically "balanced" to M1 Abrams and L2.

[F|H]Zackyx
2015-11-10, 11:26
Mineral;2105010']T-62 is not on any faction where it doesn't belong? Militia and FSA only. Both actually known to use them?
MEC only uses vehicles that are used by countries in the middle-east? Anyway, that's not really comparable anyway.

You are talking about altering vehicle capabilities on vehicles without having the visual aspect on there. For example would be the same as using a old T72 variant like ours, and adding barrel launched ATGM for it, just cause newer models have them. Not something we like to do.

I'm sorry but this something that you do quite a lot :

1) Cobra having in-game 2 X 7 rockets pod while in game having 32 rockets
2) Chinese Z-10 having a 23mm Gatling gun while in real life it has a 30 MM canon
3) German Tiger using french models without canon as a place older
4) Using bell uh-1n as a place holder for the UH-1Y Venom
5) Using a weird AH-1W as a place older for the "AH-1Z" ?
6) Using a Mi-28A (prototype that never entered service and was canceled) as a place holder for the Mi-28N
7) Using the same Mi-24 model with all the weapons still attached (2x30mm + 20XSturms ATGM!!! + 64Xrokets) For the light and heavy version. And what is a bit strange on that model is that there is a 8Xshturm pod fixed on the inner pylon of the wing something impossible since Russians never use inner pylons ATGM on there choppers for multiple reason.

And i could add more examples... I'm not trying to be a "smart-ass" by pointing this out but i understand that PR is a community driven project and that some compromise must be made in order to add diversity to the game. By trying to be too realistic you are limiting the "game play" and you are creating some anachronism that should not happen.

PS: i hope that you are not going to remove those asset for the sake of realism ?

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-10, 12:33
Zackyx;2105713']I'm sorry but this something that you do quite a lot :

1) Cobra having in-game 2 X 7 rockets pod while in game having 32 rockets
2) Chinese Z-10 having a 23mm Gatling gun while in real life it has a 30 MM canon
3) German Tiger using french models without canon as a place older
4) Using bell uh-1n as a place holder for the UH-1Y Venom
5) Using a weird AH-1W as a place older for the "AH-1Z" ?
6) Using a Mi-28A (prototype that never entered service and was canceled) as a place holder for the Mi-28N
7) Using the same Mi-24 model with all the weapons still attached (2x30mm + 20XSturms ATGM!!! + 64Xrokets) For the light and heavy version. And what is a bit strange on that model is that there is a 8Xshturm pod fixed on the inner pylon of the wing something impossible since Russians never use inner pylons ATGM on there choppers for multiple reason.

And i could add more examples... I'm not trying to be a "smart-ass" by pointing this out but i understand that PR is a community driven project and that some compromise must be made in order to add diversity to the game. By trying to be too realistic you are limiting the "game play" and you are creating some anachronism that should not happen.

PS: i hope that you are not going to remove those asset for the sake of realism ?
Inb4 chnagelog 1.3.7.1:
VEHICLES:

Updated Cobra to have only 14 FFARs. #refs3828
Removed German EuroTiger as placeholder had bad quality and did not represented absence of cannon. #refs3828
Removed Z-10 due to problem with vbf2 turret not representing real-life caliber. #refs3828
Removed UH-1N, not used anymore by Marines. #refs3828
Removed Cobra due to problems with non-realistic model failing to represent in-game AH-1Z. #refs3828
Removed Mi-28 as being prototype and had never used in Russian\Any arabic countries. #refs3828
Removed Mi-24 due to model failing to represent real life weapons. #refs3828


Regarding mi-24 optics case, thanks for than note, we're looking onto it.

viirusiiseli
2015-11-10, 18:43
Zackyx;2105713']1) Cobra having in-game 2 X 7 rockets pod while in game having 38 rockets

fixed mr zackyx

X-Alt
2015-11-10, 22:13
camo;2105218']hue cheeky, t72 doesn't have ir blocking smoke, commander no longer has TIS. Gunner kept it because people would complain. :mrgreen:
It was in the changelog for like 5 minutes, huhue.

mat552
2015-11-10, 22:37
I thought T-72 was a placeholder for T-72B or something, since it's symmetrically "balanced" to M1 Abrams and L2.

It's a T-72M1, maybe even an Asad Babil. BF2 doesn't support the fidelity necessary to make the differences important, like deformation of high speed penetrators due to ERA/heavy composites or permitting electronic warfare defense systems to knock incoming ATGMs off course. And also it now has unambiguously awful optical capabilities to boot.

X-Alt
2015-11-10, 22:45
It's a T-72M1, maybe even an Asad Babil. BF2 doesn't support the fidelity necessary to make the differences important, like deformation of high speed penetrators due to ERA/heavy composites or permitting electronic warfare defense systems to knock incoming ATGMs off course. And also it now has unambiguously awful optical capabilities to boot.
It's a T-72A\M1, it has the extra hull armor. TBH they should just turn it into a T-72AV used in Syria (would work for Grozny too), put some old blurry IR flashlight optics and we're done here. Other option is take out gunner thermals and pull the quantity card.

rPoXoTauJIo
2015-11-11, 06:04
Note guys that this thread belongs to flying tank, not a ground one.
If you wanna speak about t-72, please use seperate one :)

[F|H]Zackyx
2015-11-11, 08:14
More data about Raduga :

LLLTV and FLIR >link< (https://books.google.fr/books?id=6sI7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=KPS-53AV&source=bl&ots=TL91R1bYkN&sig=cfobFiMjRL4XN2Oj3Smz5DxWR_U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBWoVChMI3bnEs_-HyQIVzAoaCh1TrgSJ#v=onepage&q=llltv%2CFLIr&f=false)

>link< (https://books.google.fr/books?id=n7rXaAmQH1MC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=raduga-sh&source=bl&ots=6vBmMicgkA&sig=AWNWzMepeuNfYvLtKCnaKqXBYkE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwA2oVChMIruHa_PuHyQIVxFgaCh0JUQJ-#v=snippet&q=ir%20sensor%20coupled%20with&f=false)

Raduga >link< (https://books.google.fr/books?id=6sI7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=KPS-53AV&source=bl&ots=TL91R1bYkN&sig=cfobFiMjRL4XN2Oj3Smz5DxWR_U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBWoVChMI3bnEs_-HyQIVzAoaCh1TrgSJ#v=onepage&q=raduga&f=false)

viirusiiseli
2016-01-11, 01:21
Zackyx;2105858']-snip-

Any comment on this, will there finally be zoom+thermals for the Hind-E? Source looks very trustworthy and clearly states the Mi-24V Hind-E to have FLIR sights, which are also visible in the pictures.

Also, source here. (http://all-aero.com/index.php/home2/6817-mil-mi-24)

The use of night-vision goggles with flight information displayed in the field of view, and equipping the helicopter with an optronic fire-control station comprising of thermal imaging and TV channels, control channel, and laser range finder, as well as display systems, enables the crew to detect and recognize targets at night and employ the heliborne weapons both by day and night.

Source here. (http://www.airforceworld.com/heli/eng/mi24.htm)

Russian Army Mi-24s are being upgraded with new avionics including thermal imagers.

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Hind/Images/4429.jpg

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/images/aircraft/Mi35-02.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww293/binhbeo78/Raduga-Sh-1.jpg

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Hind/Images/1891.jpg

Brozef
2016-04-16, 01:45
Quick question, which maps have the hind on them? Because I haven't seen one of these things in game for a couple of months now :(

anantdeathhawk
2016-04-16, 04:27
Don't know the exact layer(s).
1.Grozny.
2.Khamisiyah.
3.Silent eagle.
4.Saaremaa.
5.Operation soul rebel.
6.Pavlovsk bay.
7.Beirut.
8.Test_airfield.
9.Black gold.
10.Iron ridge.
11.Nuijamma.
etc.

Danesh_italiano
2016-04-16, 07:11
Quick question, which maps have the hind on them? Because I haven't seen one of these things in game for a couple of months now :(

On v1.3.9.0 is:
Black Gold STD (light hind)
Op. Soul Rebel STD (litght hind)
Pavlovsk Bay STD (light hind)
Silent Eagle ALT (super hind)
Vadso STD (super hind)

[F|H]Zackyx
2016-08-22, 09:52
After watching Mats new video about the Mi-24 i have to point out few "mistakes" :

_p2mlkXCu9Q

In my opinion and based and technical sources this is the way the sights should look and work in PR.

We should have 3 viewing options for the gunner :

- Positions 1 the regular free look in the cockpit that we have on all CAS choppers for the gunner.

- Position 2 Should be the PKV Collimator gun sight sight station [1] (https://photo.qip.ru/photo/mi-24v/2096867/large/34431402.jpg) [2] (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p1cFreCM3gE/Ul5YVJ6yllI/AAAAAAAAF2w/nPRvlBsNEqA/s800/%25D1%2581%25D0%25B5%25D1%2582%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B0 _60%25D0%25BC%25D0%25BC_%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D1% 2582.jpg) [3] (https://pp.vk.me/c410618/v410618065/7d8b/-FEQ3SzizcE.jpg) the way it shoudl work is really similar to the way the minigun are operated on the Vietnam CAS HUEY at this time in game. This position should provide no zoom and a horizontal plane traverse of 120? (-/+60?) and a down/up angle of -60?/+20?.

- Position 3 Should provide a Zoom in view of the Raduga Sighting system with a two magnification 3.3x and a 10x with a horizontal plane traverse of 120 degrees (+-60) and a verticale of +15/-20 degrees [4] (http://stealthflanker.deviantart.com/art/Raduga-SH-268189991) [5] (http://stealthflanker.deviantart.com/art/Raduga-SH-268189991).

Also the sight picture between the positon 1 and 2&3 should be different [6] (http://www.nva-flieger.de/tl_files/images/bew/mi24/falanga-p/visiernetz-steuergeraet-abschuss.jpg) [7] (http://www.nva-flieger.de/index.php/technik/bew/palr-falanga.html)

And for the pilot this how the gun shight should look like

http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/helo222.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6ISCuodDWag/TWDwGW9mIcI/AAAAAAAAIJA/suJMgdNCS2g/s1600/393%2BMI-24%2BESCOLTA%2BTREN%2BMILITAR%2BRUSO.jpg
Here is a pretty good repr?sentation of how it should work and look like in PR :

PWKadS01204






https://photo.qip.ru/photo/mi-24v/2096867/large/34431402.jpg https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p1cFreCM3gE/Ul5YVJ6yllI/AAAAAAAAF2w/nPRvlBsNEqA/s800/%25D1%2581%25D0%25B5%25D1%2582%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B0 _60%25D0%25BC%25D0%25BC_%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D1% 2582.jpg https://pp.vk.me/c410618/v410618065/7d8b/-FEQ3SzizcE.jpg

http://www.nva-flieger.de/tl_files/images/bew/mi24/falanga-p/visiernetz-steuergeraet-abschuss.jpg