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Gracler
2013-01-01, 22:28
I'm about to start modeling a bunker for Normandy The Tobruk Bunker as AD recommended. Atm im on a search for schematic and picture state and after 2 weeks time ill be having more time to start the real work on it, so don't expect updates just yet :D

Might end up with more than 1 variation since there appear to be different types of this.

The simple one looks like this.


http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/hinder/tobruk03.jpg
http://www.regelbau.dk/grafik/galleri/1070_admin.jpg
http://www.regelbau.dk/grafik/bunkertyper/489.gif


Others appear to be part of a network of pillboxes.
Finished picture

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/Final_Tobruk_preview01.jpg

Rabbit
2013-01-01, 22:35
This guy makes very accurate models of bunkers, could very well help you out if you watch the videos.

Products Atlantic wall serie 1/35, scale models World War II (http://www.helmuths-strongholds.com/products.asp?categorie_id=3)

Rhino
2013-01-01, 22:39
Cool, from the 2nd pic the static doesn't look too complicated and also it looks like for the most part you won't have a problem with textures since the "conc_tile_woodland.dds" (although you would just set the static to use "conc_tile.dds" encase it was used on an ME map) should fit nicely and you can just tile that in all directions:
http://i.imgur.com/C9QLd.jpg

Doesn't have a normal map or anything thou, is only a basic colour texture but still should do the job.

You should also note and follow this tut here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/86683-static-object-tutorial-creating-simple-structure.html

AfterDune
2013-01-01, 22:41
Yeah Rhino, just what I was thinking about textures :).

Seems this is the most basic tobruk variant:

s-lvrvOCDHQ

Rabbit
2013-01-01, 22:44
Also, don't forget to throw a panzer turret (7.5cm KwK l/24) on one of them ;)

Gracler
2013-01-01, 23:28
Great thanks for all the help guys. I also think this is a task I should be capable of and a good start to get back into editing for bf2

I found this schematic that seems to be the one on a dutch website.

http://www.fortendenhelder.nl/Bunkers/LL24%20QQ1%20Tobroek.jpg

and this one that has a ramp that could make it easier for placement in the terrain perhaps
http://www.fortendenhelder.nl/Bunkers/Tobroek%20CC5%20CC9%20EE7%20O8%20T52%20U5%20W6%20U 8%20Y8%20Y12.jpg

Rabbit
2013-01-15, 17:38
Rhino;1849454']Cool, from the 2nd pic the static doesn't look too complicated and also it looks like for the most part you won't have a problem with textures since the "conc_tile_woodland.dds" (although you would just set the static to use "conc_tile.dds" encase it was used on an ME map) should fit nicely and you can just tile that in all directions:
http://i.imgur.com/C9QLd.jpg



Question on that, I think I remember seeing a tut on bf2editor forums about using an existing texture from one object and applying it to another (I think it was over the walls used in fallujah) but I can't seem to find it, anyone know what the hell I'm talking about?

Mineral
2013-01-15, 17:59
this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/63654-static-object-tutorial-very-basic-texture-palettes.html) one?

Rabbit
2013-01-15, 18:07
this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/63654-static-object-tutorial-very-basic-texture-palettes.html) one?

That is the one I was thinking of, but i guess I thought it was over using an existing pallet from a different object. damn.

Kaland
2013-01-15, 21:56
Yeah would defo save some memory if you could do it

Rhino
2013-01-16, 07:44
That is the one I was thinking of, but i guess I thought it was over using an existing pallet from a different object. damn.

Are you talking about suffixed textures for different maps?

Like on Fallujah, the blockwall texture is normally this:
http://i.imgur.com/KqIKR.jpg

But on Fallujah it uses this from the _fw suffix.
http://i.imgur.com/ZVmM6.jpg

Rabbit
2013-01-16, 14:22
Rhino;1854775']Are you talking about suffixed textures for different maps?

Like on Fallujah, the blockwall texture is normally this:
http://i.imgur.com/KqIKR.jpg

But on Fallujah it uses this from the _fw suffix.
http://i.imgur.com/ZVmM6.jpg

Yes that's it I wanted to pull a texture off one object (cobble pattern off a building) and put it on to a wall type.

lucky.BOY
2013-01-27, 17:49
Gracler, how is this going?

Gracler
2013-01-28, 11:08
Its moving slowly forward. I've had some technical problems and I'm practicing to get it done right with the tutorials. First I was modeling with 3DS MAX 2013 then I remembered it was a bad idea, and got 3DS MAX 9 so I had to start over.

Don't worry I'm doing something every day but other things also has to be done so it isn't as fast as I hoped. I'm hoping for an update pretty soon though.

AfterDune
2013-01-28, 11:48
Spoil us with screenshots when you can ;).

Gracler
2013-01-30, 19:03
So here is the first screenshots of the basic Tobruk bunker (keeping it as simple as possible to begin with)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2803328/Tobruk%20viewport%203dsmax%2001_01.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2803328/Tobruk%20viewport%203dsmax%2001_02.JPG

Im not sure how high a player character is so i'm a little unsure if i should place another ramp or a box to stand on so that the player is able to actually see anything but the sky from the bunker :D. The current height from the floor to the top is 1.6m which I recon is too High.

I have an issue with exporting. MAXScript Rollout Handler Exception: --Unknown property: "saveMaterial" in undefined
I using version poe2_0.30a and ive installed service pack 2 for 3dsmax9 and im running windows 7 64 bit. I think it might be a windows permission thing since I got bf2 installed on another drive than C where 3dsmax is installed.
Otherwise i would have been able to test it in bf2editor to see if the height is good.

Edit: I noticed the stairs going is not the same length :D gonna correct that.

lucky.BOY
2013-01-31, 10:40
I would advise against having Bf2 in a different than default instalation path, although no idea if your error is caused by this. What your error might mean is that you didnt apply any material or texture to your model. You could do a quick basic UV and then try again.
For testing things like if you can shoot out of somewhere or if you can fit somewhere you need to create cols, for this you need at least col2 (soldier mesh) and probably col0 too (decal mesh) for testing purposes you can just copy your main mesh and use it like those cols (rename, put proper material, and put them into hierarchy as descrobed in tutorial), but for final export you need to make them properly, eg. col2 needs ramps where those stairs are and at the entrance, too.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/107988-static-east-timor-static-hut-4.html#post1763721

Here you get a some info on how big things should be, i would worry about soldier fitting into the lower part of the bunke. The visual mesh needs to be at least 1.3 m high if im not mistaken, and you have to make the col mesh 1.4 high in the same area for the soldier to be able to pass.

For the standing shooting height, You should go for the recommended shooting cover height, which is 1.32, so you put a box under the circle if you need.

Speaking of circle, you are really low on triangles now, so you can smooth that circle up.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/80751-modelling-tutorial-smoothing-un-smoothing-cylinders.html

KaB
2013-01-31, 11:26
Don't forget to make them destructible under mortars hit.

AfterDune
2013-01-31, 11:27
I would advise against having Bf2 in a different than default instalation path
You should install BF2 wherever you please, that shouldn't cause any issues. I know mine certainly isn't in the default dir :).

Don't forget to make them destructible under mortars hit.
If he wants to, sure. We could have different versions:

destroyable
non-destroyable
destroyed already

Though it depends on what the mapper wants for gameplay whether they'll be used or not.

Arc_Shielder
2013-01-31, 13:03
Weren't most Tobruk bunkers buried?

If yes, don't see how making it destroyable would add anything to gameplay. The gunner is sufficiently exposed to be taken out with small arms. There would also be an issue with the terrain not falling in once destroyed which would make it aesthetically awkward.

As a mapper I would never use this static in the bare open above ground as it would be contradictory to its purpose (although I have seen a few pics of them like that).

It's up to the modeller though.

Nice work so far. Would love to have that baby in my map.

Rabbit
2013-01-31, 13:08
AfterDune;1859855']

destroyable
non-destroyable
destroyed already
panzer IV turret on top hehe
Though it depends on what the mapper wants for gameplay whether they'll be used or not.

You know do whatever

lucky.BOY
2013-01-31, 13:12
If you want the panzer turret to rotate, it needs to be exported as a vehicle, not a static. The word static rather gives it away, it would seem.

Rabbit
2013-01-31, 13:21
If you want the panzer turret to rotate, it needs to be exported as a vehicle, not a static. The word static rather gives it away, it would seem.

Twas just a joke, there is no need for it.

AfterDune
2013-01-31, 14:17
Weren't most Tobruk bunkers buried?
Most, perhaps. Not all anyways. A destroyed version isn't required or anything, I'm fine with it if there's only one state.

KaB
2013-01-31, 14:23
Even if it's buried, I don't see why couldn't it be destroyed. It will make a sort rectangular hole.

Actually it would be interesting the Tobruk blows up only when the shell gets through the small hole. Then it would explode from the inside.

rodrigoma
2013-01-31, 14:26
I think a destroyed version is too much work for this bunker if it was for the larger ones I might support it, but no need to do it on this one
good job btw

Gracler
2013-01-31, 14:33
What your error might mean is that you didnt apply any material or texture to your model.

It was not this model but the wall from the tutorial here that i tested to export. I'm gonna try to do the texture tutorial again from scratch... maybe i missed something. The textures where low detail compared to the tutorial so I must have done something wrong when extracting the files, gonna redo that as well.

For the destruction of this model I think it could be interesting to make a version where the roof is caved in but the walls are still good preventing it from making weird interactions with the terrain if buried which is most likely going to be on some sides if not all.
I'm not familiar with destructible "change" but I guess we are back to the "vehicle" thing and not static object and of-course killing whoever is inside when it happens is logic.
First i'm gonna focus on getting the "normal" statics finished first though.

I will definitely add a box so the height is good and a mounted machine gun. I suppose I can borrow one that is already made. Perhaps someone knows a good weapon and its file name?

I went a bit rough on the edges with the "turret" but I'm gonna make it more round if the textures can't obscure the fact that its very "squarish" I was looking at existing bunker models and even with low detail on the holes they look okay. I want to keep the Tri count as low as possibly so I can add some maybe more interesting details later.

Arc_Shielder
2013-01-31, 14:47
Hmm...can you make the box as a separable part or as an alternative version?

To be honest I like the idea of the bunker covered than without, but having both versions would be even better. :mrgreen:

Gracler
2013-01-31, 14:54
Hmm...can you make the box as a separable part or as an alternative version?

To be honest I like the idea of the bunker covered than without, but having both versions would be even better. :mrgreen:

Not sure i follow you :). you talking about the box on the floor of the turret? or to remove the external walls that are not seen if totally buried?

AfterDune
2013-01-31, 14:58
I'm not familiar with destructible "change" but I guess we are back to the "vehicle" thing and not static object
It's not a vehicle, it's a static object with a destroyed state. Meh, we'll get to that later, but I like the idea of a caved in cover, rather than destroying the walls.

and of-course killing whoever is inside when it happens is logic.
I'm not sure if the change from normal to destroyed state kills a player inside..

Arc_Shielder
2013-01-31, 15:03
Not sure i follow you :). you talking about the box on the floor of the turret? or to remove the external walls that are not seen if totally buried?

Bah, nvm, by box I thought you were saying that a closed Tubrok Bunker on the "hatchet". Misunderstood you.

lucky.BOY
2013-01-31, 17:17
I wouldnt put a static MG on top, just let normal machingunner set up in there, for static MGs you cant get suppression working (iirc, that is why they were removed from Op. Overlord beach bunkers), and the static MG can only cover an arc in front of it, where a player with machinegun can shoot in any direction he pleases.

Gracler
2013-02-01, 01:07
I wouldnt put a static MG on top, just let normal machingunner set up in there, for static MGs you cant get suppression working (iirc, that is why they were removed from Op. Overlord beach bunkers), and the static MG can only cover an arc in front of it, where a player with machinegun can shoot in any direction he pleases.

Good point. I didnt read that about Overlord. well it makes my job easier I guess :D

Gracler
2013-02-08, 08:43
This bunker really has an issue with its height on the stairs. Right now the col2 makes the player hit the head on the ceiling when going up or down, and sitting in the turret makes the character bounce. I made the stair a ramp in the col2 and even "cheated" and put the ceiling higher than it is but it still doesn't work.
I'm afraid I can't make the Tobruk 58c bunker authentic measurements and make it work except if I make it into a gun-turret that you "enter" which could be interesting as-well.

Going to make a finished version that is working with infantry though but ill have to push the stairs so its kinda 1 long staircase untill your standing in the turret

The alternative is that the player is forced to crouch when going on the stairs...but I don't like that

lucky.BOY
2013-02-08, 10:06
As long as you can get there crouching it would be fine i think. Its a bunker, it is meant to have confined space :)
You can try to push stairs a little bit into the turret, or slant the cieling above stairs upward, see if that helps. Btw, can you shoot out of it? You need to plan the soldier col mesh with that in mind, too.

Rhino
2013-02-08, 10:12
If the player visually fits though the door fine just rasie the col2 mesh on the door way to let him pass though.

If not, you shouldn't have a door that it looks like you can pass though by standing, but have to crouch so you should either 1, increase the hight of the door so you can pass though it or 2, lower the height so its obvious you have to crouch though it.

lucky.BOY
2013-02-08, 10:25
I think the player can get standing into the lower part of the bunker, the problem here are stairs to the upper part of it, where you have to crouch.

Arc_Shielder
2013-02-08, 10:51
I don't see any issue in having to crouch to get to the upper part of the bunker. Players will get used to it.

Rhino
2013-02-08, 11:10
I think the player can get standing into the lower part of the bunker, the problem here are stairs to the upper part of it, where you have to crouch.

ah ye, missed that bit.

Got any better pics of it? Would also be good if you can get a edged face shot in max with all the outside walls deleted :)

Pvt.LHeureux
2013-02-08, 19:04
It's perfectly fine to crouch to get in the upper part to be honest.

Gracler
2013-02-15, 07:04
Edit. Cleanup!

Gracler
2013-02-27, 13:29
50 degree is enough so I realized I didn't need the "steep" version.

Gracler
2013-09-17, 17:30
edit: cleanup

Gracler
2013-09-17, 17:32
It has been a while but here is some screenshots of how the bunker looks today.

Some soil have been added to the bunker to help "cover" the surrounding terrain.

There is also added some dirt on the floor and roof.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/screen117.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/screen116.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/screen115.jpg



I've customized the light-map uv (channel 5) using 256 pixel
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/Uv-unwrap_channel5_02.JPG

Gracler
2014-02-19, 11:47
The bunker is finished

Rhino
2014-02-19, 11:58
got screens of the lods and cols? Also nice to see you've done a custom LM UV. Looks good on the whole although if I'm being picky your packing could be a little better but still much better than automatic UV LMs :)
Also try it with a 128x128 LM for LOD0, see what its like as 256x256 looks a bit high for an object of this size. My Arched Roofed Afghan Buildings I'm working on which are ~ 12m x 4m x 4m are only using a 256x128 LM for their LOD0 (~10px per meter) and this looks to be overall much smaller than that. Yes a smaller LM size will mean the shadows are not as sharp but its a matter of having them in line with the rest of the statics ingame. A mapper can always choose to double the LM sizes later if he's only using a few statics and thinks its needed.

Gracler
2014-02-21, 00:36
I will make some screens for you :)

I suppose I should have lowered the sample to 128.

Gracler
2014-02-21, 04:03
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2803328/Published/Final_Tobruk_preview01.jpg

Lod 3 perhaps should have been dirt material instead of concrete.

Rhino
2014-02-21, 05:11
Looks good, although your final lod, lod3 rendering at 250m? That seems pretty small to me? Normally my final lods show up at 500m+ or something? Take it you've gone though my tutorial to check when the distances for when changes are obvious etc? If so then should be fine. Could perhaps save a few tris by welding that dirt bit up to the same height as the top of the bunker too, silhouette difference should be hardly noticeable from a distance and should prevent zfighting with the terrain a little, although on the near side may open up a gap between the terrain and the static. As for the material, really see what's best? Are you using both detail and colour textures or just colour? If both and you have both colours on the same colour sheet then just make the dirt brown with the concrete detail and it should work out fine :)

Also it looks like you've blocked off the actual shooting hole part of the bunker from AI in the col3? Seems a little odd to show them the main door but then not to show them that too?

Other than that looks good :)

Gracler
2014-02-21, 05:43
I did go through the steps and look at the change at 250 meters in the editor, and it looked alright. Originally the dirt did go all the way to the top of the bunker but it made the static look like a trash dump :D because it reaches so far above the trenches it is placed in.
Seems like a good idea to use the dirt base color and concrete detail color :)

The interior of the bunker is very tricky to navigate so I thought it would be safest to close the upper part off for the ai so it wouldn't get stuck.

Thanks for the feedback Rhino.

Rhino
2014-02-21, 06:01
I did go through the steps and look at the change at 250 meters in the editor, and it looked alright. Originally the dirt did go all the way to the top of the bunker but it made the static look like a trash dump :D because it reaches so far above the trenches it is placed in.
Seems like a good idea to use the dirt base color and concrete detail color :)

rgr sounds good.

The interior of the bunker is very tricky to navigate so I thought it would be safest to close the upper part off for the ai so it wouldn't get stuck.

Thanks for the feedback Rhino.

ye I don't know much about AI but it may be better to close the bunker up fully if your not going to have that bit but might be worth asking the SP guys about it, this is assuming the static is even going to be used on a map with bot support :p