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Grober
2012-12-30, 20:22
Thats right!

1p lod0 (http://p3d.in/fQ8br/xray)
1p lod1 (http://p3d.in/QH7KK)


Ofc im not showing u all what i have but to those parts i can put "ready" stamp
but reason why im posing it here cause im hoping for some feedback and some bug finding

Tim270
2012-12-30, 20:40
Seems a little strange to approach it from the 1p first Grober? You might run into some topology issues this way. I would personally advise doing the fuselage first.

Adriaan
2012-12-30, 20:51
From what I understand there is more than just the cockpit/passenger compartment, but it's not shown in the screens. Those look good so far though (smoothing groups need finishing, judging by the screens?). Looking forward to seeing the rest. :p

Also, I wouldn't bother with creating working instrument panels. It was thought of in the past for helis in PR, but deemed too much work to implement for every single one of them (and it's either all or nothing).

Grober
2012-12-30, 21:21
Adriaan;1848846']From what I understand there is more than just the cockpit/passenger compartment, but it's not shown in the screens.
Thats right

Adriaan;1848846']Those look good so far though (smoothing groups need finishing, judging by the screens?).
Dident realy work on them so far to be honest


Adriaan;1848846']Also, I wouldn't bother with creating working instrument panels. It was thought of in the past for helis in PR, but deemed too much work to implement for every single one of them (and it's either all or nothing).


Nouuu!! better start working again !:P

rodrigoma
2012-12-30, 22:15
I really cant say how I hope you go though this ;), my favorite helicopter and it should be in PR for a long time

Microwaife
2012-12-30, 22:36
Yeah, you should try to finish this. Nice helicopter and we can use this for Syrian Uprising Mod, if you allow it. :)

mangeface
2012-12-31, 02:20
http://www.trikator.cz/img/data/tricka/motivy/tricko-fap-fap-full.png

I can't wait to do this:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6545/610xzb7.jpg

DAMMIT I LOVE Mi-24 HINDS!

[F|H]Zackyx
2012-12-31, 02:59
it would be awsome if we could use the Hind for mecs !

which version of the hind are you doing ? 50 cal gatling ? fixed 23 mm ? twin 23 mm touret ? or both ?

Rhino
2012-12-31, 12:21
Adriaan;1848846']From what I understand there is more than just the cockpit/passenger compartment, but it's not shown in the screens.

Ye I think Tim can see that but I agree with him, the approach is quite strange, at least how its being shown...

There are quite a few issues that need fixing up and overall need more detail in the cockpits but I would first take all the bits from the 3p chopper that you can use then add detail to the interior, removing the bits you can't see so you don't have massive gaps round the side etc, then add all the details like instrument panels etc.

Adriaan;1848846']Also, I wouldn't bother with creating working instrument panels. It was thought of in the past for helis in PR, but deemed too much work to implement for every single one of them (and it's either all or nothing).

Biggest problem with this concept is 1, requires a massive workaround with an extenal .exe etc reading memory and then moving these parts but the biggest problem is 2, we can only have a limited amount of moving parts on a chopper, even if they are not netwrokabled, which basically totally threw this concept back in our faces as it meant even if we put all this work into it, we could only have a few our of all the gauges we made, working...

As such, this concept was pretty much scrapped but by all means, make a nice detailed 3D cockpit, just don't bother making separate needles etc and just have them as part of the 2D texture etc :)


Also one thing I think you guys missed from the R-COM forums you asked ages ago:
Rhino;1833013']ummm, its very possible though two or more different geom0 lods.. We use them on a few vehicles. Recent I applied this to the H-34/Wessex.

gemo0 lod0:
http://i.imgur.com/UAD3L.jpg

gemo0 lod1:
http://i.imgur.com/0pKWv.jpg

You just need to config the pilot/passenger cams to tell them what lod to view when in use.

Its a very good thing to do and can also mean that the passengers don't need to load the high rez cockpit textures if they are separated from the 1p passenger textures via a different sheet. TBH something we should have done for the Z-9/Panther series but didn't cross my mind at the time :(


As for Rotating fans, possibly but there is a limit to the amount of moving parts you can have on a vehicle which is one of the main reason why we dropped the idea of working cockpits / 3D HUDs.

Grober
2012-12-31, 13:46
Rhino;1848990']Ye I think Tim can see that but I agree with him, the approach is quite strange, at least how its being shown...

There are quite a few issues that need fixing up and overall need more detail in the cockpits but I would first take all the bits from the 3p chopper that you can use then add detail to the interior, removing the bits you can't see so you don't have massive gaps round the side etc, then add all the details like instrument panels etc.



Biggest problem with this concept is 1, requires a massive workaround with an extenal .exe etc reading memory and then moving these parts but the biggest problem is 2, we can only have a limited amount of moving parts on a chopper, even if they are not netwrokabled, which basically totally threw this concept back in our faces as it meant even if we put all this work into it, we could only have a few our of all the gauges we made, working...

As such, this concept was pretty much scrapped but by all means, make a nice detailed 3D cockpit, just don't bother making separate needles etc and just have them as part of the 2D texture etc :)


Also one thing I think you guys missed from the R-COM forums you asked ages ago:


Deamn some time ago i askd ddeo to ask u guys is such think possible with 2 lods and he replied no...

ddeo
2012-12-31, 14:10
First no, then yes as you remember. :)

Rhino
2012-12-31, 14:34
Deamn some time ago i askd ddeo to ask u guys is such think possible with 2 lods and he replied no...

Ye, since another dev said no, but then I saw the post a few days later and corrected it with that post, but ddeo never replied to mine to say he had seen it or forwarded it to you :p

Bad ddeo! Very bad ddeo! No dindins for you tonight!

Antol
2012-12-31, 14:39
Rhino;1849031']Ye, since another dev said no, but then I saw the post a few days later and corrected it with that post, but ddeo never replied to mine to say he had seen it or forwarded it to you :p

Bad ddeo! Very bad ddeo! No dindins for you tonight!


ddeo, you bastard:D You killed Hind

ddeo
2012-12-31, 14:50
I've forwarded it, so what about bad Grober, bad... ? :P

Grober
2012-12-31, 15:07
ddeo;1849034']I've forwarded it, so what about bad Grober, bad... ? :P

I still dont remember that!

i guess i can add some more details now

1p lod0 (http://p3d.in/fQ8br/xray)
1p lod1 (http://p3d.in/QH7KK)

[F|H]Zackyx
2012-12-31, 15:09
Zackyx;1848915']it would be awsome if we could use the Hind for mecs !

which version of the hind are you doing ? 50 cal gatling ? fixed 23 mm ? twin 23 mm touret ? or both ?

Can you pls answer my question ? :D

Grober
2012-12-31, 15:16
Zackyx;1849044']Can you pls answer my question ? :D


http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6012/ss1yo.jpg


its not "chosen" yet i think ddeo should answer your question :P

Rhino
2012-12-31, 16:25
I still dont remember that!

i guess i can add some more details now

1p lod0 (http://p3d.in/fQ8br/xray)
1p lod1 (http://p3d.in/QH7KK)

You can add a lot more details overall even without this, but without this your just saving a load on stuff you can't see.

The Z-9 1p, which also includes the working gauges concept so is more than it needs to be and will be eventually, is 10,561 tris:
http://i.imgur.com/3cTBd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bYwPO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nZ6gk.jpg

Z-9WA is less since it doesn't have so much "passenger" space and has more of a digi cockpit and is 6,744 tris:
http://i.imgur.com/w03jy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/blLAS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uWw4j.jpg

The French Panther has 9,107 tris:
http://i.imgur.com/3idjl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DSJl4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Vt2t.jpg

Now these examples as mentioned have been made with the working gauges concept which has now been pretty much scrapped so you don't need to go and make fully working artificial horizon balls with loads of back faces etc as they will never "spin" but you can still make the front faces the player dose see, and have them welded into the main mesh etc and needles on the gauges your best off just making them 2D textures on the gauge panel itself with a normal since they will look just the same, with no chance of zfighting.

The Cobra which is about the closest vbf2 chopper to your cockpit is 5,828 tris, but tbh this could be much higher.
http://i.imgur.com/yeiR1.jpg

You are allowed to go somewhat overboard on 1st person models since they are only seen by the player holding them, and never multiple ones like 3p models. The problem with really high rez 3p models, is you can have many of them in one place, epically for handheld weapons and then you start to run into problems. 1st person, your only ever going to see one, and only of the weapon/vehicle your using.

For your pilots cockpit models I would aim for around 8k tris, adding lots of detail to the round bits and insurment panels, although not going too over board, mainly welding in the screens to the cockpit, adding the odd 3D nob here and there but don't need things like separate needles etc like I did for the Z-9/Panther series but the other stuff I've done, that isn't part of a working cockpit is a good eample, other than if I was going to do it again I would have separated the passenger and pilot instrument panel 1p textures so the rear passengers when they hop in don't need to load all of the high rez gauge textures but you can easily work around this problem since you have totally different compartments for both like the Wessex dose :)
Wessex btw has a really low poly and low rez texture 1p models, this was because I didn't have the time to make a new cockpit model.



Also another thing. You should really look into what other versions of the Hind PR might need. I dunno much about the hind but I do know there are many different versions and it would be best to forward plan what versions PR needs and make them now or at least make preparations to have them done in the future, like different weapons etc, in the same way when I was doing the Z-9, I also looked into what other versions where needed like the Z-9WA, French Panther and Brazilian Panther, although looks like the Brazilian one will probably not ever get used, it wasn't that much work to do but I also considered the Z-9C if we ever had the PLANM, but decided if we needed that we could make it later on pretty easily and made "preparations" for it in how the textures where done etc, which was basically the same in how the Z-9WA was done, encase we did ever need to make it.

So ye, you really should look into that now to see what we do need and see if its worth making this version into those other versions as if we do need them and this version can be made into them, it will pay off massively in the long run.

ShockUnitBlack
2012-12-31, 18:46
Wikipedia says the Russians are currently using the Mi-24PN, however I'm pretty sure that the V model remains the most common.

lgm
2012-12-31, 23:14
Wikipedia says the Russians are currently using the Mi-24PN, however I'm pretty sure that the V model remains the most common.

Why even bother with the Mi-24 Russian texture, its being slowly replaced by the Mi-28. Maybe MEC could benefit. Besides, gunships don't fit in with PR and would most likely be wasted by the dedicated attack choppers as they go in to land troops.

[F|H]Zackyx
2013-01-01, 05:22
its not "chosen" yet i think ddeo should answer your question :P
thx :smile:
If you give the gatling and the fixed twin 23mm it will be the most op Attack chopper in PR

Rhino;1849067']
Also another thing. You should really look into what other versions of the Hind PR might need. I dunno much about the hind but I do know there are many different versions and it would be best to forward plan what versions PR needs and make them now or at least make preparations to have them done in the future, like different weapons etc,

I don't know if you are planning to make a MEC version for the hind but i think the mi-24 super hind mk.III made by ATE would be a very good choice this version is actually use in the Algerian army, plus i found some pretty sick art work :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2CsTOyWYHM0/T4Ot1Xp5IEI/AAAAAAAAG8U/DY9raWGVee4/s1600/Mi-24+Super+Hind+Algerian_ATE_SuperHind_Mk_III3_by_si regar.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5HgVGEYFG2g/T4Ot2aPNceI/AAAAAAAAG8c/tVxQ5qx6brY/s1600/Mi-24+Super+Hind+Algerian_ATE_Superhind_Mk_IIIf_by_si regar+%281%29.jpg

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/148/0/b/Superhind_Mk_III_compilation_by_siregar.jpg

This is the link of the deviant art of the guy who made this maybe you can enter in contact with him and use is 3dsmax models it would be awsome, and this guy also made some realy nice Su-30 and Su-27 models.

This chopper on kashan desert will be Awesome and much more realistic than the Mi-28 because nowadays there is no arabe army using the havoc i know that Iraq ordered 30 of them but from what i read recently the contract was blocked because of USA pressure and there is some rumours about the possibility of Algeria to buy some but this not official yet.

Siregar3d on deviantART (http://siregar3d.deviantart.com/)

J6j1MjXKMZo

Mi-24 Upgrades - ATE (http://www.ate-group.com/ate_Product/10/index.html) Offiacial Website of Ate with all the details

Data sheet with all detail and pictures of the instruments panels (http://www.ate-group.com/medias/articles/Mi-24.pdf)


More pictures if you are interested in it HELICO PASSION - MI24 Hind - Algrie (http://www.helicopassion.com/fr/03/mi24-10.htm)

Rhino
2013-01-01, 09:23
I'm sorry guys but the last thing we need right now is everyone throwing up lots of suggestions about what Hinds we could use as that will only confuse the matter. Need the MAs and faction leads to state which ones they need.

Grober
2013-01-01, 12:11
p3d.in - Mi-24 Hind 1p lod0 (http://p3d.in/fQ8br/xray)

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4274/ss1wd.jpg

made some update on p3d

Rhino
2013-01-01, 12:18
I said don't make 3D needles since they are pointless without working gauges :p
2D ones on the texture with a normal map are best.

Round bits you should look into making rounder, generally adding more tris to the main mesh and little details and modelling the fan blades etc.

One big thing I've just noticed is you MUST weld the screens, gauges, buttons etc into the cockpit, otherwise they will zfight and you don't want that! Right now you just have them as separate objects/elements on top which just won't do.
http://i.imgur.com/nZ6gk.jpg
Note how all the stuff is welded in.

Grober
2013-01-01, 12:30
Rhino;1849269']One big thing I've just noticed is you MUST weld the screens, gauges, buttons etc into the cockpit, otherwise they will zfight and you don't want that!

you destroyed my day

Rhino
2013-01-01, 12:46
you destroyed my day

:D

Remember like the 1st person model of a weapon, the cockpit is very close and constantly in the face of the player so you need to make the bits that are close to him and relevant, high detail and pretty so he can get fully immersed into the cockpit and feel like he/she is there.

If you have something looking really boxy, like that massive round screen you have, or something zfighting in their face the entire time they are flying like the buttons/gauges on the SU-25/A-10 etc, it just totally brakes the immersion and distracts the player from the game and experience.

You have a lot of polys to play with with a 1p model, so don't be afraid to make all the details you want on it :D

Amok@ndy
2013-01-01, 20:37
also you might want to add those 'wings' that are in the cocpit lod also appear on the passengers lod

ChallengerCC
2013-01-16, 08:42
The mi-24 super hind mk.III is a realy cool helicopter and my favorit one!

It would be possible to integrate the mk.III for the PMC,


mi-24 super hind in blood diamond, a Para Military/PMC Group (i know its a film, but PR is also a game :) )
jozkC1Lygas

The standart Hind D or so would be nice anyway

Harvester
2013-01-17, 22:15
We can take these models for PR?
Mi24 3D Models and Textures | TurboSquid.com (http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?keyword=mi24&x=23&y=16)

ddeo
2013-01-18, 06:33
We can take these models for PR?
Mi24 3D Models and Textures | TurboSquid.com (http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?keyword=mi24&x=23&y=16)

We would have to add a lot of tweaks to them. To be honest, we have already something like this, whole 3p model of our Mi-24 needs only optimalization and tweaks.

guywithawrench
2013-01-19, 21:00
Good to see the model didn't go to waste :D very good work man keep it up!

karambaitos
2013-01-20, 20:40
Rhino;1849276']:D

Remember like the 1st person model of a weapon, the cockpit is very close and constantly in the face of the player so you need to make the bits that are close to him and relevant, high detail and pretty so he can get fully immersed into the cockpit and feel like he/she is there.

If you have something looking really boxy, like that massive round screen you have, or something zfighting in their face the entire time they are flying like the buttons/gauges on the SU-25/A-10 etc, it just totally brakes the immersion and distracts the player from the game and experience.

You have a lot of polys to play with with a 1p model, so don't be afraid to make all the details you want on it :D

unrelated question, is welding needed in newer engines as well, or is it only in old ones like BF2, also when do you need to weld each verticie of a circle like the HSI in this picture and when is it not needed like the radar warning receiver im guessing on the top extruded panel

Tim270
2013-01-31, 15:31
Zfighting still obviously happens a lot in modern engines. There are however some ways around it to a extent.

For example we can use code to pretty much eliminate z-fighting on 1p weapons, we cant do the same however for vehicles or 3p weapons/buildings/kits.

Welding is just good practice in a lot of situations also as it helps to optimize your uv space. For example, having loads of black shadows in your diffuse from the AO just shows that it is wasted space having intersection geometry there. Smaller details, not such a big deal.

Rhino
2013-02-01, 06:52
Ye, what Tim said. Saw some really horrible, basic z-fighting errors in PS2 which where due to it not being welding and that even was on a 1p handheld weapon model...

Jafar Ironclad
2013-02-12, 00:20
How are we doing here?

ddeo
2013-02-12, 07:36
Hey.
From what I know Grober has paused work on Mi24 to concentrate on studies. I think he passed exams already, so I'm sure he will continue work on Hind soon.

Grober
2013-02-12, 10:47
I already apssd exams so im cool again but im doing map Hind and F16 texture so i realy devide my time on those projects :P and last days i was working on map

Ason
2013-02-12, 12:41
Isn't this also the type which the russians used in Chechnya 1995 ?
https://www.google.se/search?hl=en&q=chechnya+attack+helicopter&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.bGE&biw=1280&bih=871&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=kkYaUcLcOaSL4AS3zYHoCQ

Would be awesome in PR!

Trek762
2013-02-20, 15:40
I talked to OPK guy. He says PR is allowed to use the Mi-24 model from their mod.

So? Maybe we could use the OPK model for now? I don't think that the whole (model, UV's, textures, code etc.) Mi-24 from Grober is gonna be finished... in nearest future.

ddeo
2013-02-20, 18:57
I talked to OPK guy. He says PR is allowed to use the Mi-24 model from their mod.

So? Maybe we could use the OPK model for now? I don't think that the whole (model, UV's, textures, code etc.) Mi-24 from Grober is gonna be finished... in nearest future.

Sounds good. Can you contact me privately? I've tried to contact you for few months already, I've send you several private messages on IM client and PR forums.

Amok@ndy
2013-02-20, 19:31
I talked to OPK guy. He says PR is allowed to use the Mi-24 model from their mod.

So? Maybe we could use the OPK model for now? I don't think that the whole (model, UV's, textures, code etc.) Mi-24 from Grober is gonna be finished... in nearest future.

all asset requests for comfacs have to go through my hands and have to be approved, else the permission is useless

Blondey
2013-02-21, 22:42
Looks good so far :)

Grober
2013-04-10, 12:43
i quess there is no sense on finishing this model any more....

bagno
2013-04-10, 21:36
wasted time and effort.

Rabbit
2013-04-10, 21:45
Unless this model ends up being superior.

Rhino
2013-04-11, 02:06
i quess there is no sense on finishing this model any more....

No there is much reason to finish this model. The Hind we got from clivewil, while serving as a very good place holder isn't very accurate, being a mix between a V and P as well as its weapon points not being tweakable, so the weapons it visually has on its racks do not correspond with the weapons it actually fires, as well as it could do with better 1st person models and lods.
http://i.imgur.com/SOUCquJ.jpg

All in all, we still need a replacement that fills both roles and without any of these issues :)

reptilianhuman
2013-04-11, 06:03
He he You guys should have listened a bit close ;D

Blackburn92xBHD
2013-04-23, 15:10
i'd love to have the Hind in PR.. mixture of trans and attack chopper: PERFECT!

Moszeusz6Pl
2013-04-23, 15:33
Did you saw the latest DEVcast?

Gracler
2013-04-23, 15:39
Moszeusz6Pl;1888096']Did you see the latest DEVcast?

2U9-y6efBSo?

oh yea at 5:40..... already love it. Somehow I always thought this helicopter was more bad-ass than the black-hawks Apache and cobra and any other helicopter and along-side the Chinook and little-bird and havoc.

i'd love to have the Hind in PR.. mixture of trans and attack chopper: PERFECT!

your wish has come true

Ason
2013-04-23, 18:30
Why even bother with the Mi-24 Russian texture, its being slowly replaced by the Mi-28. Maybe MEC could benefit. Besides, gunships don't fit in with PR and would most likely be wasted by the dedicated attack choppers as they go in to land troops.

Because they have used it in previous conflicts which can also be in PR maybe? For example I'm doing a Grozny map and this would be awesome to have in that.

Grober
2013-04-23, 19:42
If im correct russia have nearly 400 Mi24 and around 50 Mi28 i think thats a good reason for any one to bother with russian texture