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ddeo
2012-12-15, 21:00
"Long time" without update. :) As you can see we are trying to progress faster with making faction, but today I would like to show you one of models we have received from old team responsible for developing Polish Forces. It's of course polish tank PT91 Twardy (based on T72), even if model is 2 years old it still looks damn nice. Take a look: p3d.in - twardy (http://p3d.in/uYNzX)

Author: Brother
Tweaks, fixes: PaulPL
Current progress: Fixing the model

Around 12k tris.

Cheers!

Sadly, after further look model will be completely reworked in future...

Adriaan
2012-12-15, 21:19
Cool, although with 12k tris I would worry about optimization. Think you could optimize the turrets geometry underneath where the ERA and other bits are, as well as lowering detail on the smoke launchers. The ERA slabs on the front of the hull could be pulled into one element, spaces in between being indicated on the texture.

ddeo
2012-12-15, 21:29
Sure, I will be working on this model tomorrow, I just noticed that not everything is as it should be. It's still nice model, but it needs some more work. :)

Adriaan
2012-12-15, 21:32
Alright. :)
Also, remember that the wheels need verts in the centre of them.

Antol
2012-12-15, 22:00
Waiting for texture. It gonna be epic:mrgreen:

velocity
2012-12-16, 01:05
Does the barrel need to be completely hollow?

Never done 3D stuff apart from photoshop but from what I have picked up on here is it should just be textured?

Simsung
2012-12-16, 02:11
Does the barrel need to be completely hollow?

Never done 3D stuff apart from photoshop but from what I have picked up on here is it should just be textured?

Well, it's a matter of personal preference to be honest.
Of course, it would save few polygons, which could be used elsewhere, but game-art is really tricky in terms of aesthetics and good looks.
You gotta find a fine point between optimization and good looking model.

Rhino
2012-12-16, 05:02
With your block armour you're going to have to bake them onto the face's texture under it, and not have the normal shadows underneath since they are going to zfight like crazy and the only way your going to have any chance of hiding that is by having the texture under them looking excatly like they do, with also meaning that you can remove them in a pretty early LOD, just leaving the baked blocks under where they where. Some of the blocks like the ones right above the cannon should really be moved away from the faces under them as they are going to zfight even when up close, the more distance you put between them and the face behind them, the less they will zfight.

Also you guys should think about how the cannon is going to rotate up and down, for example, on the t72 ingame the base stays static, while the cannon rotates inside of it:
http://i.imgur.com/mrtVB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fNLgM.jpg

I can't see how yours can rotate without something looking super wrong with it.

Does the barrel need to be completely hollow?

Never done 3D stuff apart from photoshop but from what I have picked up on here is it should just be textured?

Well, it's a matter of personal preference to be honest.
Of course, it would save few polygons, which could be used elsewhere, but game-art is really tricky in terms of aesthetics and good looks.
You gotta find a fine point between optimization and good looking model.

The barrel shouldn't be completely hollow as it is currently. It isn't a matter of personal preference, its about spending tris where the player is going to see them. The player isn't going to see any tris in something that's going to be in total shadow and can only see them when at one very exact angle viewing into the barrel, and being close enough to see it, that's even if the inside of the barrel wasn't 100% black inside so you could see into it. As such, totally wasted tris on a model that's already over budget.

http://www.wordsworks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/tank-barrel.jpg

As per this post here I posted the other day:http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/116036-model-m2-flamethrower-wip-6.html#post1841523
Rhino;1841523']Also always for barrels you should always have a cone rather than a cylinder with a back face as for starters, its far less tris but not only that, it also gives a much better "bottomless" effect when textured with a shadow in the middle and takes up far less UV space and easier on the LODs :)

http://i.imgur.com/8qewK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KOljt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FAF3Q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BVa5K.jpg

EDIT: also a serious amount of tris you can save at the top of your turret here:
http://i.imgur.com/obo1I.jpg

Using this: http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/55803-toms-3dsmax-tutorial-thread-image-heavy.html
Optimization
http://tom3d.dk/Tutorials/sphere.jpg
http://tom3d.dk/Tutorials/cylinder.jpg

and this: http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/80751-modelling-tutorial-smoothing-un-smoothing-cylinders.html
Rhino;1335655']Now lets un-smooth this scope for say a LOD etc, so lets first undo the smoothing what we have just done by selecting one in every two of the cap faces but making sure they are above the triangle bit like so, and then hit ring to select the other ones on the other side:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9657/05022010163100.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2060/05022010163125.jpg

Now normally using the ring tool in this kinda situation would select all the edges all the way down the scope but because we have selected the edges above a tri face and not above a quad face, the ring tool selection was stopped at the tri which for this case is what we wanted :)

Now if we Collapse the edges we have selected we go back to what we had before, although now the UVs are a little bit distorted.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4907/05022010163330.jpg

Now before we go cleaning up thous UVs I want to unsmooth our scope more than this, so again, select one in every two cap faces round the edge and then once that's done, hit the ring tool to select them all :)
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3938/05022010163440.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1438/05022010163507.jpg

Now we can see this time our edges have been selected all the way down to the end of the scope which is what we wanted here and now if we collapse these edges, the entire scope is going to be unsmoothed :D
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7180/05022010163550.jpg

Now you wouldn't want to look at this scope now in a 1st person model:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3941/05022010163628.jpg

But this scope is now really optimized for a 3rd person LOD etc which what we are looking for here as even at a small distances, you can't tell the difference :)
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/968/05022010163711.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9443/05022010163736.jpg


And you can smooth up and un-smooth these scopes even more for what ever we want :D

ddeo
2012-12-16, 09:35
Thanks Rhino, I'm going to work on it today. :)

simeon5541
2012-12-16, 11:21
Looks very good.
Can't wait to use it with my driver friend.

Tim270
2012-12-16, 12:25
Rhino has pretty much covered it, One thing I would say is the ERA tiles could be do-able if you make them into larger blocks, then bake down some normals and a AO for them. So for example the pannel on the sides. You simply "merge" that into a rectangle rather than having each individual block modeled. Then bake a highpoly. Like Rhino said, the Z-fighting from all those small blocks is just going to be too much so its going to have to be a compromise either way.

Wish I had a version of max on this machine I could whip you up a example or try a comparison of which way will work.

ddeo
2012-12-16, 12:32
I'm going to rework whole ERA on the model, as I said model is old and nobody from our new team touched it yet. :) Hopefuly I will finish it today (I haven't actually started yet), but I have good feelings about it. :)

Once again thanks for help!

edit: I will not make it today, hehe, when I started fixing it I just noticed too many errors, it will take some time fixing them and remodelling some of the parts. Well, see you with Twardy in couple of days! :)

edit2: actually after getting closer look at it, model will need to be reworked from scratch.

Forgotten
2013-04-29, 19:56
Can't see picture. That will be an original PT-91, or the T-72M1Z (T-72M1 modernized to PT-91 standard, different configuration of ERA).
PT-91 http://www.enemyforces.net/tanks/twardy.jpg
T-72M1Z / PT-91MA1 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BSyCDINjIJY/TfInh5zSplI/AAAAAAAABAw/9RYpIR1yUro/s1600/pt-91_mbt_main_battle_tank_poland_polish_armed_forces _09.jpg

Moszeusz6Pl
2013-04-29, 20:07
As you can see above, there is no PT-91 now, it need to be completely reworked, which is not worth doing at this stage, when we still have a lot of must have content unfinished, and have Leopard2A4 from Fininsh forces. We wil look more into it after first release of Polish Forces. This model is on hold for now.
Btw you can check priority of weapons and vehicles in design plan (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkseLzDKWu2xdDNSNjdPbWpUYjBoRXNVMHZ0bGt2S lE#gid=1). Things with high are must in first release, wit medium should be, and ones with low we are mostly left for the future.