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Rabbit
2012-11-16, 15:48
FH has a couple Omaha style levels done or in the works, maybe ask for the hightmap for them and re-create them?

Honestly it might not be that hard, if you made a folder and combined all the static objects from both mods and did the "select all of type" then "replace object with" commands it could go pretty smoothly. Could be faster than building a level from scratch and it can add to the number of levels Normandy has.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-11-16, 15:50
Yeah actually AD already used one of FH2 map's heightmap for a map called St.Lo. He just removed everything from it and replaced it.

But the thing with the smaller Omaha map you're talking about is, why would we need one? We already have an "omaha" style map, why would we need another?

Rabbit
2012-11-16, 15:59
Yeah actually AD already used one of FH2 map's heightmap for a map called St.Lo. He just removed everything from it and replaced it.

But the thing with the smaller Omaha map you're talking about is, why would we need one? We already have an "omaha" style map, why would we need another?

The only way it's ever fun is 120 players on it, if its ever below 100 its just kind of boring and slow, not the type of gameplay you expect from that kind of level. This sounds really strange on account 99.9% of the time I fight for this, but it has to much freedom of maneuver and can actually be pretty easy for the US to get off the beach. Every time I've played we are off the beach or over the cliffs in under 10 minutes.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-11-16, 16:29
Yeah I agree on that. The best we can do with the current map is having less flags in play at the same time.

lucky.BOY
2012-11-16, 22:11
^ That will result in US landing on an undefended part of coast and then attacking along the coastline. There could be a "Skirmish" type map with only one landing corridor, with the rest being out of bounds, maybe? for like seeding or something :)

I played one of FH2 D-Day maps yesterday, it was really nice and quite fun to play with 40 people in total, but it was takinng place just after the landing, we were fighing in the craterous are just off the beach, and the beach (or was it cliffs?) was out of bound. The idea i believe was german attack just after the US made a foothold. A really isolated aspect of the landing, but i liked it quite a bit.

I think we should also mention that the map AD remade wasnt directly from FH2 i believe, but from one of their minimods and was used with permission. Just to prevent any misunderstanding.

titsmcgee852
2012-11-17, 04:16
FH2 has minimods?

AfterDune
2012-11-17, 11:16
I used two heightmaps, for Saint Lo and Bloody Gulch. With permission indeed.

The "mspaint your Overlord" thread is about making the map enjoyable for both 64 and 100+ players btw.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-11-17, 12:44
The DDay map that AD made is completely original.

FH2 has one DDay map, called Pointed-Du-Hoc, but you land near cliff and must get up with ropes, there is a beach part but the germans can't really set defenses and the beach is really really small.


I like the idea of making a smaller layer, to seed a server, or to have huge spam fest fun with 64 players :)

007.SirBond
2012-12-23, 23:11
I agree that beach maps are more fun with 100+ players but there should be a smaller variant for 64 players. The current beach maps are too big for 64 players.

If there cud be a smaller beach map for 64 players and a larger one for 100 plus players, that would be great. Hopefully both will be available for 1.0 release.

Rhino
2012-12-24, 06:05
What's with everyone's obsession with Omaha I don't know :p

There where 5 beaches in total, even if we have to stick with US Forces you could still do Utah:
http://deanoworldtravels.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/1942_d-day_normandy_map.gif

Sword beach being one of the more interesting ones since they landed right into a coastal town:
http://www.galik.com/stanleygalik1922/lci/images/Sword-Beach1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FKJB4vOb9r0/TJH1s9xtxLI/AAAAAAAADJE/gdkPDeLxW6M/s1600/sword_beach_destruction.jpg


Could even make Sword then put the US on their as a place holder till we get Brits :D

Rabbit
2012-12-24, 06:17
If you want one make it ;)

In all seriousness its probably because it was the worst beach, thus the most recreated and known, even though 99%they of Omaha beach levels are incorrectly done with really no real research.

Rhino
2012-12-24, 06:42
If you want one make it ;)

lol damn, I should have seen that one coming! :p

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-24, 13:12
You know guys, the current beach landing level is not Omaha nor Utah, it's just a general beach landing map, Omaha did not even have big cliffs like in the map.

waldov
2012-12-26, 07:49
The current omaha maps fine but just cut it in half because the boats outflanking the objective is BS and takes away the point of charging the beach.(as they actually did in d-day.)

Arc_Shielder
2012-12-26, 11:10
The current omaha maps fine but just cut it in half because the boats outflanking the objective is BS and takes away the point of charging the beach.(as they actually did in d-day.)

That would condensate the german forces and inevitably overpower. With a solid strategy on their part is already hard as it is for the US, no need to come down to that.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-26, 12:38
To me it looks like that since we changed the flag layout the germans tend to cluster around the cappable flags only and not to the other part of the beach.. so maybe we should put back flags all along the beach.

Arc_Shielder
2012-12-26, 12:50
To me it looks like that since we changed the flag layout the germans tend to cluster around the cappable flags only and not to the other part of the beach.. so maybe we should put back flags all along the beach.

From what I've noticed, I have to agree. In Normandy day event we were careful to warn the german team to spread along the beach, but in casual gameplay it seems that they don't take those precautions.

AfterDune
2012-12-26, 12:54
My experience is the Germans still defend the entire coastline, just like in previous versions, so that's fine.

Anyways, I can imagine we get a better map in the future. Very similar to this, but different... better for gameplay and not a 2km wide beach. Though still hard for the US of course.

If someone wants to have a go at that, feel free to do so. As long as you can have some epic beach assault and stuff like that. And perhaps make it a bit more accurate (though I don't mind if an omaha like beach and Pointe du Hoc are "combined" like in the current map).

The night-landings could then be done on a more historically accurate map with a little more "story" to it. Take the game "Brothers in Arms" as a good example for it.

That's... what I would love to see. And I know many of you will too ;). I don't have time to make that happen though, so I'd like people from the community to step forward and help out.

Rabbit
2012-12-26, 17:35
AfterDune;1847293']My experience is the Germans still defend the entire coastline, just like in previous versions, so that's fine.

Anyways, I can imagine we get a better map in the future. Very similar to this, but different... better for gameplay and not a 2km wide beach. Though still hard for the US of course.

If someone wants to have a go at that, feel free to do so. As long as you can have some epic beach assault and stuff like that. And perhaps make it a bit more accurate (though I don't mind if an omaha like beach and Pointe du Hoc are "combined" like in the current map).

The night-landings could then be done on a more historically accurate map with a little more "story" to it. Take the game "Brothers in Arms" as a good example for it.

That's... what I would love to see. And I know many of you will too ;). I don't have time to make that happen though, so I'd like people from the community to step forward and help out.

Only problem with historically accurate is you will need someone who can also make objects. My guess is someone will the dog green section as that is the most commonly done, as it was the worst part. To which to you would need..

Verville's church as to which I can find no references to the d-day one.
The hotel on the beach going up the draw.
wn 71 http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/normandie7/wn71.jpg
http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PhotosNouvelles6/WN71PlanSurIndicHard.jpg

wn 72
http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PhotosNouvelles6/WN72PlanSurIndicHard.jpg

WN73 seen in the cliffs over WN 72
http://www.flickr.com/photos/astaken/5047610434/

The sea wall

and the tank wall at WN72

I have actually put in 100+ hours in research alone for this section, and have a LOT of info on it.

Arc_Shielder
2012-12-26, 19:45
Concept wise it can be historically accurate. In all of those objects you have proper replacements.

Rabbit
2012-12-26, 20:03
Concept wise it can be historically accurate. In all of those objects you have proper replacements.

Whats proper though? Id say a good 80% of emplacements were tobruk bunkers or sandbags, in fact these bunkers that are always used. http://www.ryanarts.co.uk/temp/bunker2.jpg
They are completely inaccurate. A, they were observation bunkers and I have not found 1 source that actually has them there, in fact I found sources that say they were not there are all.
Tobruk bunker
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XIZEC5IfUf8/TlvnmxmMsBI/AAAAAAAAAiA/Q0qd9OUX8NM/s640/DSC_3264.jpg

The thing I could see you with getting away with is the panzer turret as it didn't last long at all.

AfterDune
2012-12-26, 20:22
With historically accurate, I don't mean realistic objects. What I mean is towns, objectives, places of interest, etc. But with the assets we already have. If someone wants to model stuff, that's fine and great, but imo not necessary to create a nice map. Like on Brecourt. Pretty accurate, but using our own stuff.

Rabbit
2012-12-26, 20:27
AfterDune;1847389']With historically accurate, I don't mean realistic objects. What I mean is towns, objectives, places of interest, etc. But with the assets we already have. If someone wants to model stuff, that's fine and great, but imo not necessary to create a nice map. Like on Brecourt. Pretty accurate, but using our own stuff.

Everything I listed was an objective with the exception of the sea wall, (which could be done with modifying terrain and painting it with a cobble texture) and the church, which was said to be used for spotting, and could be important. I don't even mention the mansion in verville as it would be more for keeping it authentic. The bunkers I listed we actual objectives for infantry and rangers.

AfterDune
2012-12-26, 20:42
If you like, can you draw a "minimap" of what -you- would like to see a map like this, while staying accurate-ish (like Brecourt accurate-ish). Would be interesting?

smith1215
2012-12-26, 20:54
Make a BF1942 omaha beach map. It would be perfect.

Rabbit
2012-12-26, 21:08
http://i.imgur.com/dt4px.jpg

http://imgur.com/dt4px
Blue- US main

White- From left to right, Charlie --- Dog Green

Red - left to right. Verville Draw or WN72
http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PhotosNouvelles6/WN72PlanSurIndicHard.jpg
Trenches or WN 71
http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PhotosNouvelles6/WN71PlanSurIndicHard.jpg
If you did it small enough you could even throw in a munitions point where you see both of the "4"s

Black- Mortar position or WM73 A bunker with artillery piece was here with a mortar tube to its left.

Yellow left to right- Crossroads----- Verville-sur-mer

Lime- German Counter or Ammo Depot.

It would be a 2kmx2k and leaves a lot of open area for para version.

lucky.BOY
2012-12-26, 21:32
You posted link to a missing picture, gx?

I agree it would be nice to see more accurate bunker statics, nearly all of those that are currently there are observations bunkers, proper bunkers should have small firing ports with possibly HMGs and cannons laffeted in them. Somebody would have to make them first though, and its quite a bit of work :)

Rabbit
2012-12-26, 22:09
Hmm, it shows for me, but I re-uploaded it and added a link.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-27, 03:25
Well we have the bunkers from french hope wich are good, but they have big useless part with grass texture on it, it those were removed (edited out) we would have waaaay more potential.

Rabbit
2012-12-27, 04:06
I think its worth asking fh2. They have the exact statics but they are unused, sitting there doing nothing

AfterDune
2012-12-27, 09:00
Well we have the bunkers from french hope wich are good, but they have big useless part with grass texture on it, it those were removed (edited out) we would have waaaay more potential.
We could change the texture to something else, if it makes you feel better ;). Also they shine a bit too much, but even that can be fixed I'm sure.

I think its worth asking fh2. They have the exact statics but they are unused, sitting there doing nothing
Don't think they'll trade, but pass me a list of names and I could always ask around.

Arc_Shielder
2012-12-27, 10:31
Removing the green texture would also mean that someone also needs to add external walls in unseen parts. Retexturing is easier.

The only object there that might be a little hard to portray is the hotel. Do you have a reference, gx?
Furniture is not a problem, building might be.

AfterDune
2012-12-27, 14:02
Perhaps we should replace the grass texture with a concrete texture? This way you can use it in various environments. Unsure how it looks, but that's something we just have to try.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-27, 14:43
Yeah use the same texture as the concrete part, so we don't have to paint ugly grass around them :lol:

But the best would be to remove the grassy part so the bunkers would be smaller and would fit in more places.

Rabbit
2012-12-27, 15:30
The only object there that might be a little hard to portray is the hotel. Do you have a reference, gx?
Furniture is not a problem, building might be.

http://i.imgur.com/f5cjH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p3ado.jpg

Best bet to design Vierville around this, as it is damn close to what it was. I think it's from the 50's or 60's, the changes where small, rebuilt the church and hotel in the draw. Vierville from all accounts I have wasn't bombed or hit by anything due to the need to keep the roads there. I only know of 2 craters found just outside the village, that is it. (wit exception to the naval bombardment of the church.)

http://i.imgur.com/hiurP.jpg

AfterDune
2012-12-27, 17:45
Nice references right there, gx :). Cheers. With all the information provided in this thread, someone can make a totally bad-ass and pretty accurate re-make of that area!

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-27, 18:12
If given some good static models.. yeah :|

AfterDune
2012-12-27, 18:16
Meh, you can create a very nice looking map with all the stuff we already have.

Of course more accurate statics are always welcome, but not necessary to create a nice looking map. The tobruk bunkers though would be very nice to have.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-27, 18:20
Well if we had more enterable houses, some pubs/bars, french markings on buildings.

sweedensniiperr
2012-12-27, 18:30
juno could be done aswell.

AfterDune
2012-12-27, 19:10
Juno was Brits/Canadians, right?

Rabbit
2012-12-27, 19:21
juno could be done aswell.

Juno could very well be done also, but you would still need accurate emplacements and the wall at Juno also. Not to mention the mod does need to lower the number for MG42/34's and start filling in with the MG08.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-27, 20:04
Yeah I like Juno, cool movie. Oh wait..

Yeah we would need brit guns and stuff. Our mod is already so WIP we don't need to throw a new faction in yet... :?

Rabbit
2012-12-28, 19:35
Honestly, If I were not in the middle of a project and had the statics needed to do it, I would work on it in a heart beat.

I know it's a .png but it's a cutout of a 2kmx2km area, if you layed it out you could easy build a replica for it.

http://i.imgur.com/1k6Me.jpg

Ts4EVER
2012-12-28, 20:51
That's D-1 draw right? It was defended by strongpoints 71 and 72. The first one consisted of 3 mg bunkers and 2 8cm mortars, the second one had 1 8.8cm Pak43, a 5cm KwK and 3 more mg bunkers.

Mineral
2012-12-28, 20:57
Please don't base it on current google maps pictures :) You would lose so much.

http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/Photos7/1944Feb15Vierville.jpg

http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PN6/Omaha24mars1944WN73-69.jpg

Rabbit
2012-12-28, 20:59
In an earlier post I gave links to german defenses for all the wn positions, armerment and sectors of fire.revert to that. Granted it takes some google translate. But yes it is the d1 exit

AfterDune
2012-12-28, 20:59
I encourage that idea, gx. Put all those other projects on hold and get this one going :p.

Rabbit
2012-12-28, 21:19
Please don't base it on current google maps pictures :) You would lose so much.

http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/Photos7/1944Feb15Vierville.jpg

http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/PN6/Omaha24mars1944WN73-69.jpg
It was only a reference terrain wise In earlier pictures you can see the fields, buidlings, roads, general detail rather close up, which can be used as a good reference. Also that picture isn't rotated north, like the google map one is, one more benefit.

AfterDune;1848192']I encourage that idea, gx. Put all those other projects on hold and get this one going :p.

That's my problem actually, I get going with something (shikotan) get about 80% done then get distracted by something else! ha!

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-28, 22:09
http://omahabeach.vierville.free.fr/6juin44Viervil4/Photos7/1944Feb15Vierville.jpgThat is some good fucking HD 1944 quality here :shock:

doggreen
2012-12-29, 18:12
GX ms paint in the post is a link where it shows where they are located all defeses German and what type of weapons that each possessed.

D-Day : Normandy 1944 - OMAHA BEACH : U.S. Troops (http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/omaha/en_defense.php)

I like your idea, soon after the ground invasion of the beaches of normandy were modified to facilitate the access of equipment into and even the construction of the first runway for aircraft in French territory.

What do you think of sending e-mail to D-Day Museum and Imperial War Museum for another asked if they have photos of the land areas made ​​before the invasion of normandy? Why the Internet is not detailed material.

The only thing I found was this map that shows details of the types of beach and defense

Encyclop?dia Britannica's Guide to Normandy 1944 (http://www.britannica.com/dday/art-40543)

Enjoying the post

although we know only virtually, I wish everyone and their families a happy new year replete with a lot of peace, health and prosperity

Rabbit
2012-12-29, 23:26
WN 71 I will add WN 72 after dinner

http://i.imgur.com/Ir28x.jpg

WN72

http://i.imgur.com/Y2xCD.jpg

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-30, 01:58
I can translate all that if needed.

Rabbit
2012-12-30, 02:04
I can translate all that if needed.

Rough translations are on the bottom, you are more than welcome to make sure they are correct though.

Rabbit
2012-12-30, 04:18
........http://i.imgur.com/1txZK.jpg........

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-30, 04:38
Is the terrain THAT elevated?

Rabbit
2012-12-30, 04:52
Is the terrain THAT elevated?

They are very large

Omaha Beach Bluffs | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacques_wood/3889251015/)

http://historythroughgaming.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vierville-draw-today.jpg

rodrigoma
2012-12-30, 10:48
have you tried using accurate heightmaps?

Kloppies
2012-12-30, 11:24
This is an awesome idea! It always bothered me that the depiction of omaha in games and movies are generally way off.

gx, if you are going to make that map, may I make a suggestion.

http://i.imgur.com/w1Jh3.jpg

Looking at the area you selected, almost half of the beach is in front of the cliffs. West of the Vierville draw was Charlie sector where the Rangers landed, but I can't find any indication that they tried to scale the cliffs using ropes like at Pointe du Hoc.

There is path from the beach up the bluff in Dog white sector where General Norman Cota apparently ordered the men to go up (Cota's draw (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacques_wood/3889244009/in/photostream/)). There was less resistance and they made a breakthrough. It would be nice to include that part as another way up besides the D1 draw.

Gameplay wise I think that the NW corner of the map will be a bit of wasted space, since there will be no point of interest if sticking to a realistic layout.

Therefore I suggest including more of Dog sector to the east like so:

http://i.imgur.com/jEw0c.jpg

The red square is 2x2km. As you can see, you can still include a small part of the cliffs to the west and the defenses of WN72, as well as Cota's draw at the east.

I rotated the map a bit to NE, since it allows the allies to land at any part of the beach without having to approach at an angle.

What do you think?

Rabbit
2012-12-30, 15:02
rodrigoma;1848643']have you tried using accurate heightmaps?
Yes. 2kx2k comes up as to pixelated.


Kloppies
Charlie was where most of the progress for d1 was made not to mention it would make flanking d1 slightly easier as it is not as heavily defended. Also not all of the beach will be open. Dog white was a much "easier" section if the beach and I can already tell if it was includes it would end up with 2 problems. The first being everyone would attack there as its not as defended. Destroying the purpose of the level. And second being a 2km beach is just to big for even 64the people assaulting up it.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-30, 16:17
Wait wasn't this thread about a smaller Omaha level? So why not make it 1km x 1km instead of 2x2 like the one we already have..? :?

Mineral
2012-12-30, 16:22
gx, if you actually are going to make this map(i'm against it as we already have a beach landing map and it would be way better to make a map based on the other battles around europe instead of making the same thing twice + You still have another map unfinished + maybe updating overlord to make it better is way more efficient ) that just make a separate thread for it, this is just confusing.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-30, 16:31
I'm already working on Overlord to make it better.

gx, it's true that if you wish to make a Normandy map, what would be welcomed is a 2km x 2km map like the battle of Mortain where we could have planes and more tanks/vehicles.

http://www.americanmilitaryhistorymsw.com/img/upload/khkybj_1.jpg

Rabbit
2012-12-30, 16:43
*scrapped as people bitch to much*

Mineral
2012-12-30, 16:52
I just think your other map is looking way to promising. It would be sad to see it put on hold for an additional Normandy beach assault. I feel like having one project at a time is a better way to do things :)

But that's just me. I'm not trying to be an annoying complainer here. It's just if you open this forum (http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-community-maps) and see how many promising maps were made and abandoned just because the mapper thought of a even better concept and then none of them got finished.

AfterDune
2012-12-30, 17:11
Man, this got out of hand quickly... :|

Right, gx is already working on a map that has great progress as far as I know, so of course that map will be finished first. But one can post ideas and historically accurate images to, one day, create a map that's historically accurate (as far as possible with our assets) and can still deliver that "holy shit!" feelings as the current Overlord does.

This map, if it's ever made, is intended to replace Overlord. The current map is still cool, but if this new map is more accurate and still gives you an overdose of awesomeness, it'll replace it for sure.

Ts4EVER
2012-12-30, 17:19
I'm already working on Overlord to make it better.

gx, it's true that if you wish to make a Normandy map, what would be welcomed is a 2km x 2km map like the battle of Mortain where we could have planes and more tanks/vehicles.

http://www.americanmilitaryhistorymsw.com/img/upload/khkybj_1.jpg

You want to use that as a PR map? That's a three division attack while you would ahve a depleted company on a battlefield of the same size.

Arc_Shielder
2012-12-30, 17:28
gx stated in Shikotan Island thread that he is going to wait for the 1.0 release. Until then he has the time to get involved in another project. Apparently he has an experient background and judging from the bits I've seen of Shikotan, I'm pretty sure he is capable of delivering a great map.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-12-30, 17:34
You want to use that as a PR map? That's a three division attack while you would ahve a depleted company on a battlefield of the same size.Just the terrain, don't need to make it super historically accurate. Also it gives us an occasion to use the P51 :-P