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40mmrain
2012-10-06, 07:23
Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.

ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance, further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply. Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.

Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him, and jets dont bleed. We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.

Reduce the sea harrier number by one, so the argentines have some air advantage, give them deployable AA, and they need some armour themselves.

jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.

I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.

It's just really painful to play infantry on this map, you feel so helpless. Most of the flags are really, just impossible to defend. Theyre tiny collections of houses youre packed into, subject to fire on all sides with no other cover. I dont know what can be done about that, it just feels very awkward and counter-intuitive fighting as inf, you just feel so unequipped and unable, and exposed, and out of control. I dont know if this can be helped, I dont know if it's bad or good, but it frustrates me. Every second you're dying, and being flanked, and being shot at with no cover from some direction. I played for hours and could never get properly dug in, or get a good fireline, or actually ever hold off an assault on a flag. Perhaps this is partly due to the overabundance of CAS and lack of counters for inf, combined with the actual small size of the east falkland, along with all the flags that need to be tended to at once. Teams become overextended, and flags are so close it's unfeasible to return fire, watch the sky for enemy CAS with your little MANPAD, and dig all at once. I might find it better when I have a 10 man squad, allowing me to have an AR, MG, grenadier and marksman laying down cover and smoke while 4 or 5 other men dig. I only found myself in the face of consistent overrunment when trying to defend, asking for shovels and suppression from everyone all at once. I wanted to attack but that would only leave the at least one of the two flags are usually need to be tended to undefended. As it stands it's only perpetually angering to be on the ground in the daylight. At night it's better for sure for inf. Maybe it's just new and no one is used to fighting on open ground like this, and we havent developed proper tactics for the maps, or maybe flag layers could be linearized.

stifmyster1
2012-10-06, 10:53
Agree with alot of those. There needs to be alot more cover and some extra buildings.

also with night maps they need to be brighter. more like yamalia in term of brightness. I had my contrast and brightness on max and still couldnt see my own gun.

sweedensniiperr
2012-10-06, 13:21
the night map is good. I've won with argies.

However, even though it's cool that you made the flag layout as close to real battle it's a bit derpy. Two flags to attack for brits first. Then one and two flags to defend. And then again two flags to attack.

Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.

Rapid12
2012-10-06, 14:52
Loving it so far. A reduction in jets is needed, or, alternatively, make use of the west island by putting in a couple of objectives there and including more transport choppers, that'll spread out jet attacks on infantry, which are very relentless.

The map is hard to read now because there's so much land to cram into the same space. Solution would be to allow better zoom, but I've a feeling such an obvious solution wouldn't have been merely overlooked by the Devs, so I guess it's 'hardcoded'.

I'm at A1, keypad 9, keypad 1. lol.

pedrooo14
2012-10-06, 15:20
I see a lot of round woned by Argentinian forces, some of them was a real beating and we (arg side) make a good and strong defend. I think it dependes a lot of the air support of each team and good SQL.

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

In the war, they don?t have any flares, or even a radar warning. So i think that number its ok to make a balanced but realistic fight.


One thing that i noticed, is that there is no apc for argentina. And we have Panhard light tanks, i know its in development but it would be great if dev?s can use a place holder. To make the thing more balanced.

Rhino
2012-10-06, 15:27
Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.

Scimi is pretty powerful, need to increase its delayed spawn time and need to get an AML-90 for the Argies too.

ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.

Shouldn't be like this, can anyone confirm?

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance

Seeing as there is only one jet that has a 20min delayed spawn with LGBs, and only the sniper the SOFLAMs, I haven't seen it be that effective myself yet.

Brits only get two other CAS jets which tbh I've not seen used to that much effectiveness yet, although I've found myself doing quite a successful gun runs on FB with the Sea Harrier.

further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply.

Argentine jets are faster and easier to land (although once you've sussed out how to vertically land the harrier well you can do it very quickly) but this was a fact of the battle.

Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!

MZ9wZzerEZU

30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time :p

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like :D
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

the UH-1H not sure about but the Skyhawk didn't have any countermeasures in r/l, in fact during the war they retrofitted one by shoving a load of foil into the air brakes of the A-4 so that when they opened they would act like Chaff but this was only a one use thing and its reliability is questionable :p

The idea for the A-4 is to get in, drop its bombs and get out as quickly as possible. Although its quite a formidable figther in a gun fight and pretty much on par with the Harrier, still not a good idea to do so as if missiles come into play your done for :p

The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.

Ye, having been able to fully fix that yet. Hopefully Jafar will nail it in the future :D

Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him

I've found the Argentine infantry with there full auto FM FALs quite hard to brake though if they are defending, or even attacking. I think you've had one or two rounds where brits had full air superiority if your really heavily getting hammered by CAS. In the Open Betas Argentine forces where winning quite a lot, my guess is the biggest problem is no deployable AA if its not working as you've said.

We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.

Ye, Scimi at range is quite a problem and ye, only thing to easily hit is is really CAS right now if its sitting really far out but dumb bombing, once you've gotten use to it can be very accurate and overall, Argeis get more ground attack aircraft than the Brits and they generally carry more bombs / rockets (4 common ground attack aircraft to the Brits 2 common and one uncommon).

Also if your asking for guided bombs/missiles for the Argies, they didn't have any (other than the Exocet :p)

jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.

Umm, jets do bleed out.
A-1H: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
A-4: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Dagger: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Mirage IIIEA: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Sea Harrier: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Harrier GR3: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350

I often find myself bailing out from my plane being on fire. BTW black smoke doesn't = fire, a big flame coming out the back = fire and jet is "bleeding".
You may also want some more pratice with missiles, if your constantly missing with them or they are not killing in one shot, you should note the angles you are to the enemy jet, the direction and speed of the enemy jets, and where the flares are and then how the missile reacted. I can pretty well judge before firing a missile if its going to hit. For example I know that if a Mirage 3 is heading up and slightly away from me, trying to turn towards me with loads of flares coming out of the rear, I can easily direct my missile just in front of him for it to avoid the flares, and get around a 90% chance of a hit, 70% chance killing him with a direct hit.

I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.

They have the normal HP choppers have in PR, which is really, really bad. Chinook for example has a maxHitPoints of 1700, compared to the A-4s 900....

It's just really painful to play infantry on this map,.......

I think you need to change and develop your tactics to suit the open terrain and the assets you have available to you.

Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.

Was one of the landing beaches:
http://www.aeroventure.org.uk/images/2007/xx411-82-05-21-07-mapsancarloslandings.jpg

pedrooo14
2012-10-06, 16:32
30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.


When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.

Rhino
2012-10-06, 17:01
When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2870346377_0e7dd00e03.jpg

http://k01.kn3.net/E988A1DA2.jpg

While yes, the Super Etendard was never fitted with both AA missiles and an Exocet missile during the war, it is very possible for it to carry AA weapons with an Exocet.

40mmrain
2012-10-06, 17:06
ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.

MrTomRobs
2012-10-06, 17:42
ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.

I'm not entirely sure about the whole jets not bleeding out issue - i played a good few rounds on the VW server last night and got tagged by cannon fire a good few times but managed to get away but i was only able to make it back as far as port stanley before i saw flames in the rear view camera.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-06, 19:15
Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

40mmrain
2012-10-06, 19:20
I'm not entirely sure about the whole jets not bleeding out issue - i played a good few rounds on the VW server last night and got tagged by cannon fire a good few times but managed to get away but i was only able to make it back as far as port stanley before i saw flames in the rear view camera.

I will try to verify repeatability, and isolate incidental variables that would affect that, ill be on tonight.

On multiple occasions I managed to fly back to base with black smoke, or with a burning engine, I also witnessed other jets dancing around with lots of smoke pouring out the back. I believe this occurred on the CIA server, on the STD layout.


Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

if this is impossible, the same way grass is then so be it. COuld a possible workaround be instantly built deployable foxholes, as opposed to ones requiring digging, to simulate already dug in trenches? FOxholes would be really useful on this map, ESPECIALLY if theyre changed such that CAS doesnt annihilate them.

Rhino
2012-10-06, 19:50
Rhin0, you should add some trenches statics, like small ones, to simulate that troops dug in foxholes/trenches recently. So we can have some covers... But since it's Mesh terrain, I don't know how you can do that :S

Its possible to do yes, but would take quite a lot of work and rework of the terrain, UVs, textures and LMs to do.

if this is impossible, the same way grass is then so be it. COuld a possible workaround be instantly built deployable foxholes, as opposed to ones requiring digging, to simulate already dug in trenches? FOxholes would be really useful on this map, ESPECIALLY if theyre changed such that CAS doesnt annihilate them.

Ye this is something I may add, like I've got the deployable HMG nest that you can build at Goose Green.

Biggest problem thou for both this and building trenches into the terrain is due to the small scale of the map, there isn't really any places to put them in terms of where the defences where.

I will try to verify repeatability, and isolate incidental variables that would affect that, ill be on tonight.

On multiple occasions I managed to fly back to base with black smoke, or with a burning engine, I also witnessed other jets dancing around with lots of smoke pouring out the back. I believe this occurred on the CIA server, on the STD layout.

What jet have you managed to make back to base once on fire?

Black smoke doesn't always = bleeding. Flames however dose = bleeding.

On the Mirage for example, which has a max HP of 1000, at 350 HP "bleeding" will occour. At 750 HP for white smoke. 500 HP however is the time you get "black smoke" (still above critical damage HP) and at 100 HP you have fire (well under the critical damage mark). This should be true for pretty much all jets and if you can find a jet that isn't bleeding when on fire, please let me know.


PS. Pvt.LHeureux while my game name ingame is Rhin0, this is due to BF2 not letting make an account called [R-DEV]Rhino, instead I had to use the 0 ingame to make the account. Otherwise its just Rhino :p

PLODDITHANLEY
2012-10-06, 20:06
Are we sure the scimitar had thermals in 1982? Seems early.

I've got no idea and the intrewebz don't help but gime a few days I could find out.

Rhino
2012-10-06, 20:54
Are we sure the scimitar had thermals in 1982? Seems early.

I've got no idea and the intrewebz don't help but gime a few days I could find out.

No it didn't, the old Scimi used back then as mentioned above only had a NV sight, which proved to be very useful during the battles it was involved in ye, no Thermals, they have just been left on for now since its using the same scimi thats in normal PR and need to fix the NV shaders before we can put that on so Thermals have been left on to act in its place :)

40mmrain
2012-10-06, 20:57
right, well I did manage to fly a mirage variant all the way back to argentina before, while ablaze, I will try and repeat this and verify.

Rhino
2012-10-06, 21:02
right, well I did manage to fly a mirage variant all the way back to argentina before, while ablaze, I will try and repeat this and verify.

I think I've just seen the problem. In the Anti-Ship version of the M3EA, its got:
ObjectTemplate.armor.hpLostWhileCriticalDamage 0

Ie, isn't taking any damage when in critical damage with that setting, should be 15...

Dagger also had this issue but the main M3EA didn't.

Cheers! :D

Rhino
2012-10-07, 01:43
British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs,

Has anyone else found this an issue too? So far haven't heard anyone else complain about this but if anyone has found this really OP too please say and to anyone who think its fine as it is please say too :)

Lange
2012-10-07, 02:26
I will post some pics in the bugs thread but can confirm what rain is saying with the deployable, AA however to be it seemed to deploy but be invisible, as I walked over it a few times but was really buggy lagging my soldier into the ground, possibly pushing a squadmate below ground etc. Also issues with invisible objects in buildings but took some screenshots in a game and will put in the bugthread.

Found my gameplay as Argentina so far to be a absolute rapefest by armor and CAS as infantry. its frustrating as hell and damn near impossible as Argentina as it is now, as other than CAS they have crap AT (Bazooka and LAT have really short range and as wipeopen and uncovered as the map is at the moment you will rarely get a chance to even engage the armor before your seen and shot to bits). So far its not uncommon for the British Scimi crews to get 60-70 kills during a round which is INSANE I rarely ever saw that with armor in normal PR even on INS with a tank. Its just beyond rediculous right now, the scimi either needs to be removed until it can be nerfed abeit realistically(no thermal cannon zoom reduced smaller ammo etc) or something else done.

With the CAS with the huge amount of jets and no cover and only 2 Handheld AA kits its also a nightmare as infantry. Being on any flag trying to defend or any focused area the Jets can just bomb and gun down with a blind eye your screwed, plain and simple. Not fun and frustrating as hell. I agree with 40mmrain entirely, several occassions just wanted to give up and quit because of the hopelessness. This never happened in normal PR to this scale because of how few Jet assets there are even on CAS maps not to mention tons of AA cover etc to counter.

40mmrain
2012-10-07, 02:35
not sure how many people actually know the british have LGBs, actually, but usually when I have my fobs set up, we can kind of spread out and avoid dummies and rockets because of how hard it is to provide manual CAS or interdiction. HOwever, due to lack of squad leader SOFLAM to counter laze, and deployable AA I found my fobs getting continually earthshaken by the LGBs. This is probably another point that deployable AA (medium too?) could help quell.

I think the mod demands more time to assess, and people have gotten a bad first impression due to player ignorance. FOr example, most players had no idea the brits even had a scimitar, and never thought about trying to counter it leading to racking up 70 kills quite easily, this happened a few times. Players also neglect the fact that the sniper is the only holder of the SOFLAM, and players will regularly play by themselves, with a sniper kit (I have no clue why, the rifle isnt all that useful, which is fine, because the SOFLAM is more than enough to make the kit useful). Further the amount of jets has seemed to overwhelm some of our less.. observant players, and regularly you'll see people in infantry squads just take up a plane without even asking. Trans is neglected, the idea of air cover is lost upon seemingly all jet squad leaders who never seem to come to terms with the massive importance they hold, including the fact that theyre the only asset that is capable of offending against the scimitar, the HAT and SPG are strictly defensive weapons that are very hard to utilize. Will the recoilless the argentinians receive in the future perhaps have some sandbags for cover, and a quicker turn radius?

All in all, to quote moose, "falklands has made everyone retarded".

Players havent adapted yet, and the problem is I dont think the less observant players actually recognize this. The squad leaders are the corner stone of every project reality match, if there are no squad leaders the game is garbage, people just wander around big maps by themselves doing nothing, and is it stands the dramatically different nature of falklands has made squad leading quite difficult for any one, in fact, it's rare to even have a leader for the jet squads, most often jet leaders just kind of say do whatever, contrary to popular armour or helicopter tactics displayed in the usual PR. This has caused people to start to adapt a disliking of this new map. People dont know what theyre doing and blame the game. People are playing the game wrong. It's like calling chess crap because you dont know what the pieces do.

SOme of my more inflammatory points that ive made are probably a result of this. As it stands some glitches, and balance issues continue, however the core of this radically different take on project reality is going to be a lot more playable, once people learn through trial, error and experience. I can only hope that players dont develop a distaste for the map, and it becomes rarely played, that would be disappointing, but as 1.0 comes out and falklands has some fixes, im sure players will be inclined to play it more.

Oh yeah, and the absolute zero zoom of the stationary machine guns has rendered them ineffective. As infantry you can practice "pop up and down" tactics, and move around. As a machine gunner you have no fire advantage, as being to target properly is everything, and youre completely static. Everytime I've tried to utilize one, i've been on it just looking as hard as I can for the enemy, only to take shots and be forced off it or killed. A full 10x zoom or whatever is on the current PR machine gun would upset the fact that all arms in general have shorter effective ranges, however a nice 3 times or something would be REALLY nice.

Mongolian_dude
2012-10-07, 02:38
I personally feel many of the points made in the original post are over-stated.

I think the air-power on this map has been immaculately implemented. I personally have had more experience seeing the GB airpower getting PWND. Although GB airpower has better AA capabilities, the argies have fantastic CAS capability. For me, the scimitar's impact on the battlefield has been somewhat negligible, as it gets raped within 7mins CAS rockets and unguided bombs. I myself managed to get 12 confirmed kills in a single run with the flimsy Skychief. I simply wouldnt recommend going head to head with harries! However, Aergie AA placement is more relevant to the battle than that of the GB, which makes up for the airpower AA disadvantage


I hope we see more airborne action in PR like we see in the Falklands mod



...mongol...

Lange
2012-10-07, 03:02
not sure how many people actually know the british have LGBs, actually, but usually when I have my fobs set up, we can kind of spread out and avoid dummies and rockets because of how hard it is to provide manual CAS or interdiction. HOwever, due to lack of squad leader SOFLAM to counter laze, and deployable AA I found my fobs getting continually earthshaken by the LGBs. This is probably another point that deployable AA (medium too?) could help quell.

I think the mod demands more time to assess, and people have gotten a bad first impression due to player ignorance. FOr example, most players had no idea the brits even had a scimitar, and never thought about trying to counter it leading to racking up 70 kills quite easily, this happened a few times. Players also neglect the fact that the sniper is the only holder of the SOFLAM, and players will regularly play by themselves, with a sniper kit (I have no clue why, the rifle isnt all that useful, which is fine, because the SOFLAM is more than enough to make the kit useful). Further the amount of jets has seemed to overwhelm some of our less.. observant players, and regularly you'll see people in infantry squads just take up a plane without even asking. Trans is neglected, the idea of air cover is lost upon seemingly all jet squad leaders who never seem to come to terms with the massive importance they hold, including the fact that theyre the only asset that is capable of offending against the scimitar, the HAT and SPG are strictly defensive weapons that are very hard to utilize. Will the recoilless the argentinians receive in the future perhaps have some sandbags for cover, and a quicker turn radius?

All in all, to quote moose, "falklands has made everyone retarded".

Players havent adapted yet, and the problem is I dont think the less observant players actually recognize this. The squad leaders are the corner stone of every project reality match, if there are no squad leaders the game is garbage, people just wander around big maps by themselves doing nothing, and is it stands the dramatically different nature of falklands has made squad leading quite difficult for any one, in fact, it's rare to even have a leader for the jet squads, most often jet leaders just kind of say do whatever, contrary to popular armour or helicopter tactics displayed in the usual PR. This has caused people to start to adapt a disliking of this new map. People dont know what theyre doing and blame the game. People are playing the game wrong. It's like calling chess crap because you dont know what the pieces do.

SOme of my more inflammatory points that ive made are probably a result of this. As it stands some glitches, and balance issues continue, however the core of this radically different take on project reality is going to be a lot more playable, once people learn through trial, error and experience. I can only hope that players dont develop a distaste for the map, and it becomes rarely played, that would be disappointing, but as 1.0 comes out and falklands has some fixes, im sure players will be inclined to play it more.

Oh yeah, and the absolute zero zoom of the stationary machine guns has rendered them ineffective. As infantry you can practice "pop up and down" tactics, and move around. As a machine gunner you have no fire advantage, as being to target properly is everything, and youre completely static. Everytime I've tried to utilize one, i've been on it just looking as hard as I can for the enemy, only to take shots and be forced off it or killed. A full 10x zoom or whatever is on the current PR machine gun would upset the fact that all arms in general have shorter effective ranges, however a nice 3 times or something would be REALLY nice.


Think current MG is four so maybe 2 would be a nice balance. Anyway you make some great points as always rain, you can't hammer Falklands too much as its new and it hasn't had much time at all(2 days) to be played and for players to adjust as its very different from PR and lots of new concepts etc of gameplay that vary from normal PR. Just like Vietnam was except Vietnam wasn't quite as radical but it still had its ups and downs.

Essentially its good to keep playing and evaluate but your right people do need to learn to play this addon more like it should be to improve gameplay and I find even normal PR has its good share of Noobism often so we will see with this.

40mmrain
2012-10-07, 03:20
yeah we saw the same thing in vietnam lange, there was no map like Ia drang, and the lack of scopes and binos was really game changing. Ia drang shared the no cover hard as hell multiple flag always facing overun-ment style of falklands, and it was frustrating. HOwever, I found Ia drang to be excellent after a while, we started practicing better mortar tactics, more communication, and unique infantry tactics, adapting to the environment. AFter that we started winning firefights, and not losing men left and right and the chaos turned into fun.

The jets are really really new for players, never have jets had this much of an effect on PR, I'm hoping to try and properly lead a full squad of mirages and skyhawks into battle, at once, in proper support of the ground units. These kinds of things are what makes this new mod great though, it's not just a map, or new guns, it's a new fucking game entirely, and it shows.

Im going to and devise some infantry tactics too, and I hope to make videos to share them. Hopefully a full server tonight!

Rhino
2012-10-07, 04:05
Best way to lead a CAS squad is for the squad leader to be on the ground, either being a sniper or with a sniper too preferably and them to direct the bombing themselves, and bombing needed for other squads. Trying to tell all the jets in the air where targets are, marking them on the map etc, relaying them from other squad leaders and trying to fly all at the same time is hard as hell. Fighter squads are fine and best being lead by someone in the air however.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-07, 08:59
Ammo is really scarce, and without scopes you need to put a lot of bullets downrange to kill enemies, I think it would be great to boost infantry ammo by 3 so it would be 9 instead of 6.

PLODDITHANLEY
2012-10-07, 09:58
Rhino;1822554']Has anyone else found this an issue too? So far haven't heard anyone else complain about this but if anyone has found this really OP too please say and to anyone who think its fine as it is please say too :)

As it's only snipers that have GLTD's and we've only 2 in team, I've only seen a sniper once for a while before he died and then the kit goes for a while.

I think the frequence of a good GLTD operator in PRF will be rare as rocking horse excrement, woe be tide lone wolf non commuicating sniper on thr brit team on PRF!

We need a CAS squad and a Air Air squad on PRF that way the CAS guys should be able to concentarte on CAS as it was IRL

Vista
2012-10-07, 11:46
IMO, harriers dominate in the sky, as they can turn faster.

When a argentinian fighter sees a harrier, it is impossible to kill him, as the argentinian fighter is really fast, being impossible to stay on his tail.

I can confirm the AA glitch, it is not possible to place an AA emplacement.

The night layer is awsome, just a shame that you CTD when you spawn on the argentinian main.

You need to buff the Argentinian base AA, because whenever I was a harrier and flew over their main, their AA would lock me, I would just dump flares and the missile would not even go near me. Decrease the lock on time :-P

Also, this is kind of a sugestion but wth, can you add some sort of coloured smoke launcher, it is really usefull when marking something for CAS when a GLTD is not available. Heureux was doing it with normal colored smoke, was effective ;) Give grenadiers the option to carry 5 red coloured smoke shells.

My feedback.

Protector
2012-10-07, 12:47
Get rid of the night version. Everyone just boosts brightness and it gets ridiculous.

SamEEE
2012-10-07, 12:48
Played some tonight. Top work.

Few things - need a bit more cover along the ridge between Stanley & San Carlos. Feels a bit exposed up there at times - especially when you have to contend with CAS/Armour. Everything i've read points to it being very well protected for defenders; in game it isn't so much.

Harrier flight modelling is tops. Well done with that.

Like the lack of zoom - makes it a bit more intense trying to figure what is what.

The MG pits in my opinion need to be GPMGs and better protected from the front. Protection offset by less firepower - without the zoom they make you an absolute bullet magnet as it stands and the MMG is more appropriate for this role anywho.

Suggest a better protected bunker for a FN-MAG. Perhaps a slight zoom - 1.8x?

Oh yeah - the Argentinian FN-FAL is marked in game as a "FM-FAL" in the menu where you select the weapons for your character.

Nowak18827
2012-10-07, 14:41
Im going to confirm That the AA is glitched for the Argie's ...I tried repeatedly to build AA,And it glitched and Said building asset every 2 seconds untill i died...nother squad leader also tried to build because i told him that it was glitched and he didnt believe me...he then levitated off the ground for 3 second( like 10 feet) then fell and had the same repeated message of building asset....also adding that we tested and built every other asset in the area with no problem just messing around and worked fine...just the AA never built

godfather_596
2012-10-07, 15:06
Been seeing a lot of negative feedback on the server i play on i can't tell why since i haven't played the map personally except for jumping in for like 2 min but whenever i asked "how is falklands so far" it didn't end well... But from what i can see of the features I find it sexy as hell but maybe their are a few things to work out?

Rapid12
2012-10-07, 16:15
As someone said previous, once it settles down and a little order is applied, it will make for a great map.

Think I'll dust off the joystick and get my flying skillz polished up.

Mongolian_dude
2012-10-07, 17:06
I could play this tihs all day.


...mongol...

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-07, 17:10
Mongolian_dude;1822743']I could play this tihs all day.


...mongol...

Same, I don't get tired of it :)! The lack of scopes + binos and the fact that CAS is so heavy makes for some awesome battles!

Rhino
2012-10-07, 17:25
Few things - need a bit more cover along the ridge between Stanley & San Carlos. Feels a bit exposed up there at times - especially when you have to contend with CAS/Armour. Everything i've read points to it being very well protected for defenders; in game it isn't so much.

Pretty much all the rocks in the map where randomly placed with 3DsMax, as well as pretty much all the bushes too, with the odd one being moved by hand that was in the middle of a road etc.

I'm hoping in time someone from the community may be up for the chance to add more hand placed detail to the main, mainly with adding more rocks etc, as well as generally adding more detail to the map as I don't have time to do it myself but once done I can help out with the reLMing process etc :)

The MG pits in my opinion need to be GPMGs and better protected from the front. Protection offset by less firepower - without the zoom they make you an absolute bullet magnet as it stands and the MMG is more appropriate for this role anywho.

Suggest a better protected bunker for a FN-MAG. Perhaps a slight zoom - 1.8x?

I believe you or someone else might have suggested this one before? Why excatly should we swap a more powerful MG for a less powerful MG, and one you can already have in your Infantry kits and can move about with? I don't see the advantage here especially when something like a truck comes popping round the corner?

Do have refs that M2HBs where used during the war, on a funny stand that could aim a bit up thou :)
http://i.imgur.com/N1Yd0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rKsUU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ttNoa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/janLN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CANXq.jpg

Only real refs I have of the FN MAG are being hand held or on its bipod and only one where it is in an Argentine dug in position.


Oh yeah - the Argentinian FN-FAL is marked in game as a "FM-FAL" in the menu where you select the weapons for your character.

The Argentinians used the FM FAL, which is the Argentine made version of the FN FAL, FM standing for "Fabricaciones Militares" which is the defence company that made them under licence ;)

Rudd
2012-10-07, 18:09
Really fun game, the view distance is alot more fun than I thought it would be.

Rhino
2012-10-07, 20:44
Rhino;1822554']British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs,

Has anyone else found this an issue too? So far haven't heard anyone else complain about this but if anyone has found this really OP too please say and to anyone who think its fine as it is please say too :)

bumpy, anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Cheers!

Rudd
2012-10-07, 21:34
the scimi is a bugger I agree, its speed and optics are a real obstacle to overcome. The Air problems are a bit hard to lock down because of the lack of deployable AA, though Deployables are a bit easy to see on Falklands, so I dunno how effective they'd be since Harriers may be able to engage them quite quickly (if there was a way to have a custom dirt texture that would be fantastic)

Might be best to dump the scimi completely for now, it was only really involved at the final actions at port Stanley anyway?

Dunno about the airpower, might just be an idea to increase the number of Argentinian vs GB jets.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-07, 23:55
Well Rhino, the Argies bombs need to be boosted in radius and damage, because we dropped a bomb 10m away from the scimi and it didn't kill it, and sometimes we need brits infantry escape bombing runs from 40-50m away alive.

What's your input on infantry ammo? I think mags should be buffed to 9 instead of 6, because ammo right now is scarce when you need to shoot at long range without optics and binocs (which I love).

Finally, where are the Argies LVTP-7s?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-287LEgcrwkE/TwDK867GzKI/AAAAAAAAHZ0/sFEZ6Xedyhw/s1600/Argentine+LVTP-7+%25281%2529.jpg
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Argentine-Amtrac-Falklands-War.jpg

Also I read that somewhere :

Argentina’s LVTP-7s went home after the initial invasion (with two losses to LAW and recoilless rifle), leaving only AML-90s as the defending armoured force, and they spent the entire war in Port Stanley.Could this be the reason?

40mmrain
2012-10-08, 00:25
I disagree with ramping up infantry mags. FIrstly, the mag count adheres to proper standards that the brits and argies were trained with back then.

Secondly, trans is pretty important and prevalent in the map, take advantage of it and call in those supplies. Keep a man on the AA at stanley and you'll probably lure in a bunch of harriers too, just sitting on those can be quite fruitful, even if they have pretty short ranges and long lock on times.

Perhaps the T62 could stand in for the AML-90? SLower and, with a long ass reload time, but better armored with a bigger gun.

Rhino
2012-10-08, 00:36
Well Rhino, the Argies bombs need to be boosted in radius and damage, because we dropped a bomb 10m away from the scimi and it didn't kill it, and sometimes we need brits infantry escape bombing runs from 40-50m away alive.

tbh that sounds right too me. Its only a 500lb bomb, and 10m is quite a long way, especially when trying to kill something that is armoured, basically only bits of shrpnal spurting out from the bomb which armour can easily stop from that distance.

Pilots can bomb more accurate than that I'm sure ;)

What's your input on infantry ammo? I think mags should be buffed to 9 instead of 6, because ammo right now is scarce when you need to shoot at long range without optics and binocs (which I love).

Think its fine myself, just need a good logistics chain which was vital in the war too.

Finally, where are the Argies LVTP-7s?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-287LEgcrwkE/TwDK867GzKI/AAAAAAAAHZ0/sFEZ6Xedyhw/s1600/Argentine+LVTP-7+%25281%2529.jpg
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Argentine-Amtrac-Falklands-War.jpg

Also I read that somewhere :
Argentina?s LVTP-7s went home after the initial invasion (with two losses to LAW and recoilless rifle), leaving only AML-90s as the defending armoured force, and they spent the entire war in Port Stanley.

Could this be the reason?

Yes you answered your own question there :p

The LVTP-7s are part of the Skirmish 32 layer for this reason.

They also only have a 50cal HMG as there only armament, nothing to take out the Scimi with...

Perhaps the T62 could stand in for the AML-90? SLower and, with a long ass reload time, but better armored with a bigger gun.

humm, possibly, but quite a lot more powerful hehe. Could only add it with a client side update so not going to happen for some time if it dose go in, which I'm not sure about yet. I think in time players will learn methods of killing it, and they need to do so ;)

Wispit
2012-10-08, 01:50
Well, my thoughts so far are it's quite interesting.
Personally jets don't require too much tweaking (though i haven't spent much time on the ground) with the numbers of them it's almost a gaurantee that theres an enemy jet over the island once you get there, which means your isntantly on your toes, it also means teamwork and coordination is paramount.

But it also seems it's somewhat of a rock paper scissors arrangement.

As the harrier out turns the mirage/daggers BUT the the mirage and daggers can outrun the harriers EASILY (so long as he doesn't kill you with cannons or missiles while you run away) As for running past the harriers, thats not instantaneous you get enough time to put enough of a burst of cannons to kill them first.

The skyraider is slow but can turn on par with a harrier (i suspect it can outturn them)

And the skyhawk is on par with the harrier, but as its a bomber, you would want to have a fighter nearby to assist (teamwork....)


The nighttime side of things however, personally i don't see why there wouldn't be a big red glow coming out the arse of a jet if i'm on its tail, as it was they are practically invisible the whole time your chasing them, if it werent for the AA lock on square you wouldn't even know they are there.


And i have a query, i remember my cousin has told me that the hercs in the vietnam were "invisible" to AA due to the turboprops not emitting huge amounts of heat like a jet, is this true and if so would that be the case with the skyraider now? As while for the most part it would still get mashed by cannons it'd give it a teeny weeny bit more of an advantage especially at night as AA wouldn't see it.

40mmrain
2012-10-08, 02:01
jet engines produce almost no visible light if the afterburners arent active. Their engines are fundamentally the same as a passegner's. Take a look at them at night.

I also agree with getting rid of the ability to lock onto the skyraider with missiles. Even though that will make the blowpipe impossible to use properly, the harriers guns are a good enough counter. That would actually make a sufficient balance against the scimitar, I think, the skyraider is good against the scimi, but gets shot down too much

CanuckCommander
2012-10-08, 02:25
jet engines produce almost no visible light if the afterburners arent active. Their engines are fundamentally the same as a passegner's. Take a look at them at night.

I also agree with getting rid of the ability to lock onto the skyraider with missiles. Even though that will make the blowpipe impossible to use properly, the harriers guns are a good enough counter. That would actually make a sufficient balance against the scimitar, I think, the skyraider is good against the scimi, but gets shot down too much

About the jet engines on military planes being the same as passengers, what you said is not true. Look up high vs low bypass jet engines. Passenger jet engines are called TurboFANs with a hi-bypass ratio, meaning that most of the thrust does not come from the core of the engine, but rather from the large fan that you see in the front. Basically it is like a TurboPROP, where the thrust generating mechanism is powered by the jet turbine rather than the jet turbine being the main source of thrust.

On the other hand, fighter jets, those with afterburners (Not Harrier) use TurboJET engines with low-bypass ratios get most of their thrust from the core of the combustion chamber. Therefore, in this case, their engines can be visible at night even without the use of afterburners.

That's about as much as I know. Someone with more knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-08, 03:15
Yeah I would also like the Skyraider to not be locked on, as it was. It's a good way to balance it, it's already so vulnerable.

Rhino
2012-10-08, 03:43
But it also seems it's somewhat of a rock paper scissors arrangement.

Wasn't built around that, was built around the r/l capabilities of the aircraft and how they faired in r/l against each other :)

The skyraider is slow but can turn on par with a harrier (i suspect it can outturn them)

And the skyhawk is on par with the harrier, but as its a bomber, you would want to have a fighter nearby to assist (teamwork....)

Skyraider can easily out turn a Harrier, but the Harrier is much faster. Its not very good to try and use it to dogfight (if you do, just spam your rockets at the Harriers and you may get lucky), your better off just trying to avoid them by flying low and out of hot zones :D

And i have a query, i remember my cousin has told me that the hercs in the vietnam were "invisible" to AA due to the turboprops not emitting huge amounts of heat like a jet, is this true and if so would that be the case with the skyraider now? As while for the most part it would still get mashed by cannons it'd give it a teeny weeny bit more of an advantage especially at night as AA wouldn't see it.

I also agree with getting rid of the ability to lock onto the skyraider with missiles. Even though that will make the blowpipe impossible to use properly, the harriers guns are a good enough counter. That would actually make a sufficient balance against the scimitar, I think, the skyraider is good against the scimi, but gets shot down too much

Yeah I would also like the Skyraider to not be locked on, as it was. It's a good way to balance it, it's already so vulnerable.

Ye considering it myself for the next version. As a Harrier you don't ever want to use your missiles on it, and even if you do its very unlikely to hit it (so far never had an AA missile hit one or me when I'm in it) so its only used to find it against the terrain, although the Sea Harrier's Radar would pick the thing up in r/l so ye, not sure about removing it quite yet but am considering it. One thing for sure is it needs to cost less tickets than a normal jet.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-08, 07:13
When I first heard about the map and stuff, I was sure it was a 1:1 recreation of the map :???:. But now looking at the Falklands on google maps, it's more like 1:10 :lol:

Rhino
2012-10-08, 07:34
When I first heard about the map and stuff, I was sure it was a 1:1 recreation of the map :???:. But now looking at the Falklands on google maps, it's more like 1:10 :lol:

Its in fact 1:30

sweedensniiperr
2012-10-08, 09:12
Might be best to dump the scimi completely for now, it was only really involved at the final actions at port Stanley anyway?

If so, maybe it could spawn after the brits have capped(whatever flags).

SamEEE
2012-10-08, 09:23
I think once the Scimitar is replaced by the Scorpion it will be a bit more balanced.

Acemantura
2012-10-08, 09:31
i had a wonderful time with Rhino and Jafar yesterday doing what used to be unheard of unless you were running the training-mod/mode: coordinated air combat with more than 4 jets.

Congratulations on this bound forward, making this beaten and broken game engine power through the impossible.

Cheers

KneeHiGh
2012-10-08, 10:30
Ok here are my thoughts so far. This is based on game play on the 100 player server on both British and Arg sides as INF haven't stepped foot in a plane or armor yet.

1) Scimi is very overpowered as it stands now. When I was leading a squad attacking goose green as Argies we set a FOB way down South behind GG almost near the beach and the scimi was shooting it from the top of the hill near San Carlos a distance of about 1.5ks away. The HAT is useless at this range let alone anything outside of 100m it seems.

2) Mortars are absolutely essential. I usually make at least 1 person stay behind and work the mortars then lead the rest of my squad on attacking and defense missions. The person on the mortar (assuming they are good and SL or sniper is calling corrections) most of the time racks up 20+ kills a round. ALWAYS BUILD MORTARS!

3) Building FOBs just outside of objectives will lead to less raping from CAS as they generally target the houses etc at the objectives.

4) Night map is good but still a little dark even when playing with curtains shut light off etc. Needs a bit of a tweak.

5) Argies deployable AA doesnt work. I keep getting a Asset Deployed text but nothing happens.

6) Always get a marksman/sniper in your squad they have optics enough said.

7 I do agree that more cover is needed around objectives even if it is just more rocks or houses its just a bit open when playing INF and having to run from 1 open field to another with everyone running for the same lone rock in a field.

I would also disagree that GB win most of the time. I played mostly Argies yesterday and Saturday and we won most of the time due to superior squad co-ordination. Yes the CAS was annoying but if you play smartly and avoid standing outside when at OBJ flags and build assets just outside of OBJs then they really arent a huge problem. I played mostly as a SL and really enjoyed it - having a good squad and co-ordinating with other squads was very rewarding.

Overall I have really enjoyed playing this over the weekend and congratulate the developers great map and very fun to play!

fabioxxxx
2012-10-08, 11:37
great addon ... no scopes = more team work ...
map is cool , not as bad to infantry as people where saying .
cool new effects .

haha first battles the brits always lost , after a few rounds they got the rang of it and start wining... single shot weapon = much more team work for infantry.


congrats devs .

Mayunia
2012-10-08, 19:00
gameplay versus reality, that is the question.
Many players complain about the long walk distances involved and the lack of binoculars.

During the Falklands War Argentinian ground units in most cases played a defensive role, especially during the night due to the small amount of night vision equipment that counted.

With the sinking of the Atlantic Conveyor the English lost many helicopters and supplies needed for the attack on Port Stanley, for that reason the British forces were forced to walk from their beachhead at San Carlos Bay to Port Stanley.

In summary:

The type and size is perfect for air operations, for this reason the pilots and antiaircraft operators are very happy, but the infantry is not happy

The flag system should change, capture two flags at once and great separation between these creates combats of very few soldiers and that bored.

All Argentine positions need fortifications and static defenses.

The maps should be night sieges on Argentine positions, the English should a large number of night vision and booby traps the Argentines and flares.

The color of the ground is very green and very bright, in April 1982 is autumn and the islands are near the Antarctic.

More weapons to choose from, the Argentines could lead to alternative MG FAP and the English the A4 L4 BREN.

I give you a link to a list of most of the weapons used in the Falklands and specifications.

Algunas armas utilizadas en la guerra de Malvinas 1982 ? Aquellas armas de guerra (http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/algunas-armas-utilizadas-en-la-guerra-de-malvinas/)

Rhino
2012-10-08, 19:24
The flag system should change, capture two flags at once and great separation between these creates combats of very few soldiers and that bored.

Players need to get use to it, it gives more of a tactical options and means more defending of points.

All Argentine positions need fortifications and static defenses.

While yes in some ways it dose, this doesn't stop you from building them which in many ways is better than a defence in the same location every single round because players will know how to flank it, because they have done it 50 times before, rather than if player built, they don't know where it is until they see it, and that makes the gameplay much more dynamic.

The maps should be night sieges on Argentine positions, the English should a large number of night vision and booby traps the Argentines and flares.

Umm, Brits didn't have much NV during the war, other than the NV sights on the Scimitar, in fact in some cases the Argentines had more NV than the Brits. The Brits just used illumination shots and other tactics once they had creped up close enough to the enemy positions.

And booby traps, what? The Brits where assaulting, dunno how you expect them to set any booby traps, they didn't even have any Anti-Personal mines with them...

More weapons to choose from, the Argentines could lead to alternative MG FAP and the English the A4 L4 BREN.

Yes the FM FAP and L4 Bren is part of the design plan, both to fill the LMG spot for the AR in the future but right now we don't have thous models so we just have the GPMGs: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f562-pr-falklands-general-discussion/109712-pr-bf2-falklands-design-plan.html

I give you a link to a list of most of the weapons used in the Falklands and specifications.

Algunas armas utilizadas en la guerra de Malvinas 1982 ? Aquellas armas de guerra (http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/algunas-armas-utilizadas-en-la-guerra-de-malvinas/)

Nice ref, pretty much knew all that was in there but lots of pictures I haven't seen before, cheers! :D

Mayunia
2012-10-08, 20:15
I tell booby trap because don't need create a new model to apply it.

List of argentinian mines used in the war

El minado defensivo en la guerra de Malvinas - Taringa! (http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/15383009/El-minado-defensivo-en-la-guerra-de-Malvinas.html)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3265960484_7b1c44cd61_o.jpg

pedrooo14
2012-10-08, 20:44
Rhino;1823135']
And booby traps, what? The Brits where assaulting, dunno how you expect them to set any booby traps, they didn't even have any Anti-Personal mines with them...



I think he means booby traps for Argentina.

Rhino
2012-10-08, 21:19
I think he means mine fields :p

Don't see us adding them tbh.

Boris
2012-10-09, 01:02
*deleted*

Bringerof_D
2012-10-09, 05:24
i love it, it's a fantastic map. The VD is beautifully long. It could use a little more color but thats about it the color scheme is a bit bland and lifeless when playing infantry. You can also definitely use some new rock geometries. the giant boulders seem out of place, perhaps in time those can be replaced by jagged rock faces.

not sure if this is a thing, but using the taxi engines on the harrier causes the plane to nose forward off of it's rear wheels. almost flipped a couple of times. perhaps giving it a threshold where it's forward thrust is 0 and hover function is also still at 0 is the answer.

as for the lack of bleeding on jets, are you sure you just haven't reached the bleeding point? just like other vehicles you don't start to bleed till you have fire. i have bleed out in the sky quite a few times.

Rhino
2012-10-09, 06:02
i love it, it's a fantastic map. The VD is beautifully long. It could use a little more color but thats about it the color scheme is a bit bland and lifeless when playing infantry. You can also definitely use some new rock geometries. the giant boulders seem out of place, perhaps in time those can be replaced by jagged rock faces.

Cheers, colours are pretty much based on what's there more or less and also being set in winter, and ye could use a bunch of new jagged rocks and also could be better placed, 99% of the rocks where placed with 3DsMax scatter function :p

not sure if this is a thing, but using the taxi engines on the harrier causes the plane to nose forward off of it's rear wheels. almost flipped a couple of times. perhaps giving it a threshold where it's forward thrust is 0 and hover function is also still at 0 is the answer.

Ye, if you have any negative throttle taxing is much harder. Put your throttle up to around 10%, as long as it doesn't go above 19% then your engines wont start up and you can taxi much better then :D

We did try to add some stabilizers to the Harriers but still need to do some more work there but not sure how much more they can really do.

as for the lack of bleeding on jets, are you sure you just haven't reached the bleeding point? just like other vehicles you don't start to bleed till you have fire. i have bleed out in the sky quite a few times.

There was a couple of jets that where not "bleeding" when in critical damage, but these have been fixed in the v0.182 server side patch, hopefully there isn't any others :)

Vicious302
2012-10-09, 17:49
I assumed such a large map would be for 100p+ only. I'm not even going to attempt to load up on a map 4x bigger without an increase in players. Just doesn't make any sense at all to me, I thought all servers would be getting the 100p code for this, otherwise they shouldn't get a liscense for it. ::Banging my head against wall::

AND what is up with the lights on INSIDE the houses during the night version? They should be OUTSIDE! Otherwise it completely renders the buildings useless.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-09, 17:52
Yeah, I can't go back to 64 players Falklands after the 100p server.

40mmrain
2012-10-09, 19:03
the east falkland, to only part where the fighting takes place for inf is actually really small. Smaller than a 4KM, at least. 90% of the 16x16 is only there for proper jet combat. YOu can seel malo, and goose green from fitz, and pretty much the whole map from mount malo..

100p improves every PR map, really, and like the rest theyre all still playable at 32v32

Rhino
2012-10-09, 19:17
I assumed such a large map would be for 100p+ only. I'm not even going to attempt to load up on a map 4x bigger without an increase in players. Just doesn't make any sense at all to me, I thought all servers would be getting the 100p code for this, otherwise they shouldn't get a liscense for it. ::Banging my head against wall::

AND what is up with the lights on INSIDE the houses during the night version? They should be OUTSIDE! Otherwise it completely renders the buildings useless.

the east falkland, to only part where the fighting takes place for inf is actually really small. Smaller than a 4KM, at least. 90% of the 16x16 is only there for proper jet combat. YOu can seel malo, and goose green from fitz, and pretty much the whole map from mount malo..

100p improves every PR map, really, and like the rest theyre all still playable at 32v32

Yes the ground combat area is only really a 3km by 2km area. You can easily play it with 64 players, but like any 4km map, is better with 100p.

lucky.BOY
2012-10-09, 19:47
Rhino;1823395']... but like any -snip- map, is better with 100p.

Fixed for ya :)

Cavazos
2012-10-09, 22:54
It is very difficult to deal with the enemy armor as Argentinian infantry.mso the Argentinian air force is better at CAS? I can see how that helps balance out the Scimitar. It can also be highly dependent on pilot skill if you can defend against armor. In my experience thus far, I had no issues with enemy air.

The buildings are good cover against them. There were a few times I was surprised they could take out a supply truck behind Argentinian lines with such accuracy, but perhaps a sniper with a GLTD was spotting.

Perhaps more flags can start as Argentinian and using the mainly defensive anti armor guns and statics will help balance against this more.

fabioxxxx
2012-10-11, 19:33
so the brits fought against the LVTP-7 and destroyed a few... don't see why is not in the standard mode it's part of the war ...

now you can say "No this game mode takes place after the initial invasion so you can't have LVTP-7, its the dev law Uahhaha" *evil laugh

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Argentine-Amtrac-Falklands-War.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvt.LHeureux
Finally, where are the Argies LVTP-7s?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-287LEgcrwk...25281%2529.jpg
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/w...klands-War.jpg

Also I read that somewhere :
Quote:
Argentina?s LVTP-7s went home after the initial invasion (with two losses to LAW and recoilless rifle), leaving only AML-90s as the defending armoured force, and they spent the entire war in Port Stanley.
Could this be the reason?
Yes you answered your own question there

The LVTP-7s are part of the Skirmish 32 layer for this reason.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-10-11, 19:35
Yeah it could be fine to have the LVPT-7s on the field. Even if the scimi would win, it would still give the argies an armored transport vehicle with a weapon..

Rhino
2012-10-11, 21:14
so the brits fought against the LVTP-7 and destroyed a few... don't see why is not in the standard mode it's part of the war ...

now you can say "No this game mode takes place after the initial invasion so you can't have LVTP-7, its the dev law Uahhaha" *evil laugh

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Argentine-Amtrac-Falklands-War.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvt.LHeureux
Finally, where are the Argies LVTP-7s?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-287LEgcrwk...25281%2529.jpg
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/w...klands-War.jpg

Also I read that somewhere :
Quote:
Argentina?s LVTP-7s went home after the initial invasion (with two losses to LAW and recoilless rifle), leaving only AML-90s as the defending armoured force, and they spent the entire war in Port Stanley.
Could this be the reason?
Yes you answered your own question there

The LVTP-7s are part of the Skirmish 32 layer for this reason.

Yeah it could be fine to have the LVPT-7s on the field. Even if the scimi would win, it would still give the argies an armored transport vehicle with a weapon..

TBH I'm getting a bit sick of this suggestion....

Ignoring the fact it was only used in the initial invasion then went back to Argentina straight after, well before the British naval task force arrived, what do you guys really expect this LVTP-7 to really be able to do against the Scimitar?

Pretty much everyone complains how bad the AAVP7A1 is against enemy armour and hell, that has a 40mm Grenade Launcher with AP rounds... This on the other hand only has a single HMG, and not even an M2HB like the AAVP7A1 has, but instead the M85 .50cal HMG which its only party trick is it has tow rates of fire to choose from, (slow and fast, fast being normal HMG ROF).

Now even if I totally ignored historical accuracy and added this in, what do you really think it would do, go off alone hunting down the Scimitar? More like the other way around. This would only be good for use as an APC (which right now they already have well more transport from the get go than the Brits), and possibly shooting up the odd infantry squad but nothing like to the effectiveness of the Scimitar and ye, easy pickings for anything, being jets, even AT (being a much bigger target that's less effective at range and also the Brits get a Milan).


I know this suggestion has came up as everyone is quite frustrated on being on the receiving end of the Scimitar and not being able to "deal with it themselves" and for that reason in the v0.182 Server Side Patch (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/115419-pr-f-v0-182-server-side-patch.html) I increased its delayed spawn time from 20mins to 30mins but the biggest thing you guys need to adapt and change your tactics for these kind of things.

The most effective weapon I've found against the Scimitar is CAS, where it has no defence other than Harriers and ground AA, both of which you can easily work around as a pilot. I've already killed the Scimitar twice with the A-1H Skyraider (and only flown it in one round so far) by just spamming rockets at it after getting intel from the ground on where it was. I admit this means you need to rely heavily on your teams pilots and if they are rubbish, or the enemy team have much better pilots then your going to struggle but the A-1H only has a 5min spawn, in close proximity to where the Scimitar is and it really doesn't take much to take off, fly around and destroy it.

I agree in the long run the Argies need to get an AML 90 but we don't have one right now and the closest thing I can think of as a place holder is a T-62 and even to put that in would require a client side update which I want to avoid but I really do think once you guys start to adapt to the map and its scenario and make the Scimitar a big objective then you guys will find it much easier to hunt it down, working together with CAS and other elements to bring it down.

Arc_Shielder
2012-10-12, 00:08
Rhino are you still looking for a ref regarding the sniper rifle that argentinians used?

In that argentinian blog posted here it makes reference to the Steyr SSG 69 PI as a gun for a franco atirador aka sniper.

http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/steyr_ssg_69.jpg?w=497&h=103

http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/comandosidfdfdf-239374.jpg?w=497&h=372

Rhino
2012-10-12, 00:25
Rhino are you still looking for a ref regarding the sniper rifle that argentinians used?

In that argentinian blog posted here it makes reference to the Steyr SSG 69 PI as a gun for a franco atirador aka sniper.

http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/steyr_ssg_69.jpg?w=497&h=103

http://aquellasarmasdeguerra.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/comandosidfdfdf-239374.jpg?w=497&h=372

Ye I saw that a few days ago when Mayunia posted that link in this topic.

I'm really gutted since that was the orignal Place Holder Sniper Rifle for the Argies, mainly because it was in the MEC kit (which what the Arg kits where made from) and we didn't have anything to swap it out with at the time so it was just left in :p

It is however only one of many different types of "sniper rifles" used during the Falklands war by the Argies as they don't seem to have had a standard rifle for their snipers and snipers where mainly part of SF teams it seems (note, above pic, they are waring camo, normal Argentinian soldiers didn't have camo).

That being said, they is the only ref I've seen of that rifle being used by the Argeis in the Falklands war, but tbh, its good enough for making it the sniper rifle for the next release as it means we don't need to make a new model etc :p

Igwaith
2012-10-12, 02:29
Thats the "Compania de Comandos 602 o 601" Special forces, company 601 or 602 i'm not sure..
Regular soldiers used Mauser and FM FAL with scope, SF anything they could get or want it.

It's not a bad idea to have it like sniper rifle, it's a nice model, and it's already done! hehe :P

Rhino
2012-10-12, 02:33
Ye there are many conflicting sources on the Mauser being used as a sniper rifle, many saying that they where phased out before the war, although I have seen one pic with one in it on the Falklands, although it didn't have a scope on it :p

Lt Col Keith
2013-01-14, 14:00
My recollection was that we were still using the Lee Enfield 303 as the primary sniper rifle. I may be wrong and will stand corrected.

Rhino
2013-01-14, 14:04
My sources tell me the Brits used the L42A1 Sniper Rifle, which is basically the same thing, uses the same bolt system but different barrel etc:
http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/brit_42a1_sniper_sling_with_rifle.jpg

Its part of the open community tasks for PR:F that are up for grabs listed here :)
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/110920-falklands-community-tasks.html

We are currently using the standard Lee Enfield 303 ingame as a place holder, although has buggy deviation right now so can't hit anything past 500m :p

Lt Col Keith
2013-01-14, 14:26
Interesting, I had to qualify 5 rounds, 2 inch cluster at 500 yards just to qualify as a rifle man with a FAL FN9, a Lee Enfield 303 and an SA 80; never mind a 2inch cluster with five rounds at 15 ft using a good old Browning.

Lt Col Keith
2013-01-14, 14:45
OK my favourite rifle:
The SA 80, is great for close combat and frankly can't be beaten in modern warfare. The FAL FN9 is great as a an all rounder, but heavy to carry cross terrain, however as a single shot weapon is a man stopper. The Lee Enfield 303 is a superb piece of wood and when you settle into it, you can kill a target at 1000 yards even with iron sites
.

Lt Col Keith
2013-01-14, 14:59
Sorry, old soldier ramble , please ignore me.

Moszeusz6Pl
2013-02-04, 06:33
On Vehicle Warfare layer left A4C are moving a bit forward right after spawn. After some time it moves away from spawn, and second one spawn, but they collide with themselves, and explode in result, killing third jet too.

Rhino
2013-02-04, 06:50
On Vehicle Warfare layer left A4C are moving a bit forward right after spawn. After some time it moves away from spawn, and second one spawn, but they collide with themselves, and explode in result, killing third jet too.

lol.

Ye, I know about the A-4 etc moving forwards after spawning, down to setting the wheels to always roll even if a player isn't in them to try and stop players from doing an instant stop after landing by hopping out but hasn't 100% worked as I had hoped as it still stops pretty quickly, just not as short as it was before but ye, the slowly rolling jets after spawn is a bit of a problem :p

Didn't know they blew each other up on VW64 thou hehe.

notmyingamename
2013-05-25, 19:44
i have a question maybe someone here can answer

practicing bomb runs on falkland with the harrier/mirage. normally, for example on kashan, the bombs have a height limit (or distance traveled) before they detonate. so a bomb released at, say 2500, would never make it to splash. i noticed that in falkland, however, in both jets and with LG or conventional, i could drop them accurately from 2500 without the distance limits. their release points were all a little different too. even between lg/conventional i noticed that the angle of attack and bomb track varied by a decent margin. but the question is, since i was playing on vehicle warfare, do the same rules apply to AAS? can we divebomb in standard deployment on falkland from beyond 1500?

lucky.BOY
2013-05-25, 20:55
Weapon characteristics should be the same between VW and AAS, yes. Cant really comment on the rest of your post, never did much bombing on normal PR.

Rhino
2013-05-27, 14:44
Ye as Lucky said, the bombs behave the same w/e mode your on.

The reasons why they behave differently is for starters, most of the bombs ingame a dumb, aka free fall bombs with no guidance and we tweaked the bomb physics in PR:F to be more realistic for these bombs. Also the dumb bombs have a much smaller arming delay on them than LGBs, firstly because they are a smaller size, only 500lb instead of 1000lb which means the aircraft can be closer to the explosion without damaging his plane in r/l and also in the real Falklands war, since many of the Argentine bombs failed to detonate when they hit the ships since they where dropped from so low they modified the fuses to shorten the arming time, allowing them to be dropped at much lower altitudes.

The 1000lb Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) on one of the Harriers however has the same code as it dose in normal PR and the same arming time so it needs to be dropped above 1000m for it to arm in time.

notmyingamename
2013-05-29, 15:02
Rhino;1896645']Ye as Lucky said, the bombs behave the same w/e mode your on.

The reasons why they behave differently is for starters, most of the bombs ingame a dumb, aka free fall bombs with no guidance and we tweaked the bomb physics in PR:F to be more realistic for these bombs. Also the dumb bombs have a much smaller arming delay on them than LGBs, firstly because they are a smaller size, only 500lb instead of 1000lb which means the aircraft can be closer to the explosion without damaging his plane in r/l and also in the real Falklands war, since many of the Argentine bombs failed to detonate when they hit the ships since they where dropped from so low they modified the fuses to shorten the arming time, allowing them to be dropped at much lower altitudes.

The 1000lb Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) on one of the Harriers however has the same code as it dose in normal PR and the same arming time so it needs to be dropped above 1000m for it to arm in time.

thanks for the answers rhino