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ddeo
2012-05-29, 22:06
Hi, I'm currently reworking model for polish grenade launcher - Pallad. Before I'm going to texture it I would like to have small feedback on current model:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3613/pallad1.png
I'm not sure if I shouldn't make a cone from end of this barrel. This might be visible (?) in reloading animation since inside of the barrel is empty and chamber is big.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5664/pallad2if.png

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6239/pallad3.png

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/816/pallad4.png

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5809/pallad5.png

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5923/pallad6.png

Few of reference photos:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3876/beryl04yg3.jpg

http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/D/pallad-wz-83-grenade-launcher--%5B4%5D-6458-p.jpg
Above reference photo shows that I've decided to remove cloves from view(distance)finder to lower down tricount. Should I add them?

http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/D/pallad-wz-83-grenade-launcher--%5B2%5D-6458-p.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/REMOV/MSPO2006/_Beryl_05.jpg
Inside the chamber is not detailed at all as the reference picture shows, I'm planning to use just texture there with normal map.

http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/D/DSC00444-02.jpg

Thanks for feedback. Cheers!

Edit:
Current look:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3938/pallad.png

Grober
2012-05-29, 22:25
Its looks good IMO

ddeo
2012-05-29, 22:45
I'm mostly thinking about adding cloves to view(distance)finder. Rest can be added as normal map and texture. But this would increase tri count. Also I'm not sure if I shouldn't add more details and change some already existing ones to more fit whats on the reference pictures (for example main screw for viewfinder is less sphere, more cylinder).

Amok@ndy
2012-05-30, 04:38
i think you can reduce the tri count even more but im not a modeller i hope someone will show up and provide feedback.

ddeo
2012-05-30, 12:53
Hmm I think tri count is fine, I slightly changed the screw and viewfinder today, also I've slightly optimized model. It has around 1800+ tris. Now when I have UV grid done I'm going to sculpt model for ultra high poly for bake to get nice normal map. :)

lucky.BOY
2012-05-30, 13:44
Take this with a grain of salt, I am not a pro by nay means, but i will try to point out some things anyway:

http://i.imgur.com/GYWOj.png

Green - You might want to bake these bits onto a normal map, it would save a lot of tris. Maybe try the same thing with those cloves on the distance finder, it might work :)

Yellow - This should be welded, to prevent z-fighting. Unless you need to be able to move it in a an animation, then i dont know :D

http://i.imgur.com/Az80m.png

Blue - this can have much less sides while still looking good, it will preserve some tris.

Yellow - might need welding here, too.

Also i dont know why you spit all your quads on your barrel into triangles, for me it would be easier to work with quads, but up to you :D

And I dont know how well Blender can export into bf2, I hope it will work for you.

Again, take this with a bit of salt, but i could point out something useful...
-lucky

ddeo
2012-05-30, 14:35
Big thanks luckyboy, I would prefer to work with quads at that part too, but I'm not sure if there won't be some issues when converting them into tris (there are problems with converting BMesh to tris), so I'm trying to work with tris from start, that's not big deal. :)

I'm exporting model into .obj format after finishing it and I'm sending it to Dodek, he is exporting everything to BF2 through 3ds max. We have tested it and it works fine, model just needs to be selected as 1 object when exporting it from Blender to 3ds max.

Thanks again for feedback. I will lower details on blue thing. What about other similar parts for welding like bar from 4th screenshot (this one under pull/handle), should I weld it too? Also about green parts, I looked at eotech scope from pr and it had few similar screws, so I've decided to add few details in here too, but I think I'll lower the details in one of places.

Doc.Pock
2012-05-30, 15:56
cant the blender nativly export to .3ds files?
also this is a small model id suggest you lower the sides of those cilinders and screwssince its unneeded also lucky suggested to do the holes with normal maps

ddeo
2012-05-30, 16:56
cant the blender nativly export to .3ds files?
also this is a small model id suggest you lower the sides of those cilinders and screwssince its unneeded also lucky suggested to do the holes with normal maps

Ok, thanks for feedback, I'll do that today.

Blender can export to .3ds, but we had problems with flipped normals before, I will look into it again, I can always manually flip normals of the model. :)

Doc.Pock
2012-05-30, 17:18
no problems. i help as much as i can with my knoledge

ddeo
2012-05-30, 20:08
Ok I've fixed above issues.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8931/pallad2.png
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6239/pallad3.png
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6972/beztytuujib.png
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4783/beztytuu1umn.png

First render, pretty, isn't it? 1638 tris (reduced 200 tris from old version)
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8564/80271846.png

Antol
2012-05-30, 20:50
no całkiem pretty
Nice job ddeo

lucky.BOY
2012-06-01, 11:39
Nice work. From looking at your refs, i think this handle should have a little tapered shape, being little wider in the base and narrowing to the ball on the end:

http://i.imgur.com/t9xUA.jpg

About the welding, from my understanding it has two benefits. It prevents z-fighting and it keeps the actual area of the model, that you have to UV and texture, smaller. Obviously the downside is that it rises the tri count.

So welding is needed if you have two large planes close together, and is not necessary if you have two "boxes" meeting at a large angle.

Examples from my model:

http://i.imgur.com/SSCZY.jpg

I think I will need to weld it here for the low poly

http://i.imgur.com/1SBik.jpg

No need to weld this one

-lucky

ddeo
2012-06-01, 12:22
Thanks for info, I've fixed that handle too. Thanks. :)

ddeo
2012-06-10, 13:30
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3938/pallad.png
Update with normal map.

Amok@ndy
2012-06-10, 16:28
are those Gear Wheels modelled or are they baked ?

they should really be texture only would be a waste of polys

Matrox
2012-06-10, 16:51
The cog teeth are done via opacity map. Post up your Uv maps ddeo?

ddeo
2012-06-10, 20:48
Yeah teeth are baked. :) One question, how detailed grenade launcher model should be? Right now I have a little less than 1700 tris, but I heard that I should have 500 tris model. Hmm?

Tim270
2012-06-10, 21:14
1700 sounds fine for the 1st person mesh. For the 3rd person, you are looking more at 500 or less. Still got some big smoothing group errors to fix up though.

Out of curiosity, did you bake in blender?

ddeo
2012-06-10, 21:24
Tim270;1781361']1700 sounds fine for the 1st person mesh. For the 3rd person, you are looking more at 500 or less. Still got some big smoothing group errors to fix up though.

Out of curiosity, did you bake in blender?

Yea I did bake in blender, also I'll be fixing the smoothing groups. :)

ddeo
2012-06-10, 21:45
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3613/pallad1.png
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8931/pallad2.png
Some better quali screenshots, I've included this time environment lighting instead of point light. Same model, same smoothing groups.

ddeo
2012-06-11, 19:31
Tim270;1781361']1700 sounds fine for the 1st person mesh. For the 3rd person, you are looking more at 500 or less. Still got some big smoothing group errors to fix up though.

Out of curiosity, did you bake in blender?

One more question, 1700 for just grenade launcher, but there is also weapon which has around 3600 tris (without eotech), so its 5300 overall for 1st person + eotech. Isn't it too much?

I'm trying to lower down details to have 1000 tris for grenade launcher, I think it's possible without effecting quality of the weapon too much.

Tim270
2012-06-12, 00:03
For a 1st person mesh pretty much anything up to 4-8k is acceptable, you can push it a bit more if it really needs it. So yeah, a 5k weapon in the 1p is fine.

What you really have to consider when cutting tris from the detail is what the player will see and what they will not see. But I think your current tricount is good.

The smoothing groups are looking better but there are still a few to be taken care of. It also looks like you have a normal map applied? Any chance we could see the uvs. It also looks like there is some artifacting in the bake.

At the moment we are baking our 1p's on to a lower tri count mesh for the 3p and put all the textures on one 3p sheet. This is really where performance is improved, feel free to pm when you get that stage if you need any help as that is essential for good performance. For example for this weapon, you will have to load a Eotech, rifle and grenade launcher texture for each in the 1p, but for the 3p weapon you can put them all on one half size texture that saves a LOT on performance.

ddeo
2012-06-12, 05:22
Big thanks for help Tim. I would show you UV normal map but I've slightly lowered down details for grenade launcher, it has now 1300 tris. Few things like sight I've done from scratch so I will have to fix now normal map high poly model and prepare new normal map. When I will done it for 1st person model I will post it. Once again big thanks for explanations. :) Also when making normal map are you smoothing edges for bake (sharp edge in game model, smooth in normal map high poly model)? For me it's the place where I'm getting the artifacts on normal map. Should I smooth it or leave it and concetrate on small details like teeths on that weapon and screws ?

Tim270
2012-06-22, 16:32
One thing to keep in mind when setting up your uvs for a normal map bake is where you have a split in smoothing groups/hard edge, you need to split the uvs, or make sure that part is not welded together.

This explains most of it better than I can; NormalMap - Polycount Wiki (http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap#SmoothingGroupsAndHardEdges)

I am not 100% sure why those small artifacts are coming up as it could be down to a number of things i.e How the floating geometry is set up, how the cage is set up, how the uvs are set up etc.

Use the high poly for all. Make all the edges smooth and model in the small details and bake it all down and you get a better result :)