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View Full Version : Give incentive for Karabiner 98k kit


KaizerSosa81
2011-12-05, 22:04
As the topic implies. There should be some sort of incentive that applies to those who use the K98k as their primary weapon when playing on the Wehrmacht side. As of now it doesn't have much use as the G43 variant kits. I only used it in very early testing before the release and haven't used it since then but I would imagine they haven't changed. Just a thought.

Also just wanted to let this out there: I'll most likely will come up with suggestions that enhance what is already in the mini-mod as opposed to new additions that might be desired. I think getting what is already in there fixed and polished should be the primary focus such as the suggestion I have here.

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-06, 09:44
Yeah this weapon will deal more damage in the future. The medic kit having this weapon it needs to be more efficient.

Ts4EVER
2011-12-14, 17:14
The G43 was generally very rare and mostly issued to squad leaders and snipers. The K98k was the standard infantry weapon during the war.

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-14, 17:39
Yeah but right now when the US team hit the land it becomes really hard for the germans, having G43 balance things out a bit.

Ts4EVER
2011-12-14, 17:43
Then the Germans need to use their MG42s and mortars better, like IRL. Rifles did not count for much on the WW2 battlefield.

AfterDune
2011-12-14, 17:55
Guess we'll feature a bit less G43s in the next version, thanks for sharing that info, Ts :).

Stoickk
2011-12-14, 20:15
After looking into this subject some more, I am sorry to say that this information is correct. It would appear that Germany produced approximately 400,000 of these rifles between 1943 and 1945. (source (http://claus.espeholt.dk/mediearkiv/gprod_c.pdf)) While this sounds like a large number, keep in mind that the Wehrmacht was approximately 15 million strong. In most TO&E data available (Tables of Organization and Equipment) this rifle shows at rates varying between one per squad and one per platoon. The most common usage of this rifle was in the Designated Marksman or Sniper role.

In terms of production capacity, Germany produced one of these rifles for every 50 M1 Garands produced by the U.S., and every 20 Tokarev SVT 40's produced by the Soviets. The SVT 40 was the original design that inspired the Gewehr 41, and by extension the Gewehr 43, which was an improvement to the Gewehr 41 design.

As an interesting side note, all Gewehr 43's were produced with an integral scope rail and were intended to be compatible with a newly designed 4x scope. Consequently, I think that this would make an excellent Designated Marksman rifle, or an alternate Officer weapon. Unfortunately though, strictly from a historical accuracy perspective, having this available as broadly as it is just doesn't work.

KaizerSosa81
2011-12-14, 22:16
AfterDune;1707253']Guess we'll feature a bit less G43s in the next version, thanks for sharing that info, Ts :).

Well I could have sworn this came up before in another thread and the theory was it was made overly accessible for balance issues (as posted above).

I'm glad to see something must have changed along the lines here. I'd like to see weapons more or less like their real life counterparts in handling and field presence.


But uh yeah... how about the K98k?

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-14, 22:29
K98 will deal more damage and might get some other tweaks to make it more efficient, it's the most used weapon by the germans, need more love :)

Tyso3
2011-12-15, 05:02
Then the Germans need to use their MG42s and mortars better, like IRL. Rifles did not count for much on the WW2 battlefield.

This is utter crap. Rifles were extremely important in much of WW2.


As PR accuratley shows, most infantry regiments espeially those used on the Wermacht side at Normandy were issued 90% with Rifles.

SMG's had such short range, lack of accuracy and the assault rifle was still in the works.
The K98 was produced in such short supply during the war as it had been mass produced prior.

the MP40 came into play a lot more towards the end as it was cheap, however it was more reserved for Unterofficers and Assault groups.

The power of the Rifle has stayed into effect till this day.

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-15, 05:23
Tyso, I think what Ts4EVER meant is that arty pieces planes, bomber planes, tanks, MGs, missiles, etc, all that stuff killed way more people and were more a key in the fights of WW2.

lucky.BOY
2011-12-15, 07:13
Stoickk, I just have to say i love your posts. Always well written, sourced, and contructive. This is the way we should discuss things here.

Back on topic, what about this. People are compaining that BAR is unbalacing it for Yanks, so if we leave BAR as AR for Yanks and limit the use of G43 on wermacht side, it could balance things out, couldn't it?
Assymetrical balance FTW!

-lucky :)

Ts4EVER
2011-12-15, 12:35
This is utter crap. Rifles were extremely important in much of WW2.


As PR accuratley shows, most infantry regiments espeially those used on the Wermacht side at Normandy were issued 90% with Rifles.

SMG's had such short range, lack of accuracy and the assault rifle was still in the works.
The K98 was produced in such short supply during the war as it had been mass produced prior.

the MP40 came into play a lot more towards the end as it was cheap, however it was more reserved for Unterofficers and Assault groups.

The power of the Rifle has stayed into effect till this day.

Of course most people had rifles, but (at east in the german system) the MG did 90% of the killing and dealt out 90% of the fire power, which is what wins firefights. And that is only when you look at the infantry squad, once mortars come into the equation, the percentages drop down even more.
In fact, one could argue that unless forced into extreme close combat, riflemen in a German infantry squad were nothing more than glorified ammo carriers for the machine guns. This only changed after the introduction of assault rifles, which is one of the reasons why infantry squads tend to be smaller these days: The single soldier now has noticable firepower at his disposal.

The G43 production numbers actually kind off prove my point, as they were never seen as really important in the big scheme of things. The production of the G43 started in October 1943. By the end of that year, a whopping 21 had reached the frontlines ;) the transportation capacity was reserved for more pressing ressources.

Stoickk
2011-12-17, 03:41
Thanks, Lucky, I appreciate the compliment. :)

TS, while in terms of casualty numbers, you are partially correct; the MG's and such deal out more raw firepower. This being said, the importance of rifles can not be understated in terms of infantry combat, then or now. Regardless of advances in weapons technology, the rifle has reigned supreme as the weapon of choice for the basic infantryman. Even with assault rifles having burst and automatic fire capabilities, precision rifle fire, one shot at a time, is still the basis of infantry combat, and has been almost since the rifle's inception. There is a reason that even in the 21st century the rifle is the preferred weapon of the Infantryman. If it were all about firepower, or the raw number of rounds down range, the U.S. Army would just issue everyone M240's. They don't. They still issue M16's. Even during the Vietnam War era, when full automatic fire was seen as preferable to precise semi-automatic fire, rifles were still issued as the basic infantryman's weapon. Even during that time, the U.S. had the industrial capabilities to issue every soldier with an M60, but did not. Let's say weight is the only consideration. Enter the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon. At approximately 16 pounds, that weapon is a full ten pounds lighter than the M60. This still was not issued as the primary infantryman's weapon. Whether in World War II or today, the rifle is still at the heart of infantry warfare.

The basic infantry rifle had been a major contributing factor in warfare up to the beginning of World War II, and the K98 was one of the best rifles of its time, which should be noted began prior to World War I as the Gewehr 98 (the K98 is simply a shortened version; the action and function are unchanged). Nazi Germany failed to compete effectively with the U.S. produced M1 Garand and the Soviet Tokarev SVT 40. This can partially be blamed on Germany's obsession with new technology, but to a greater extent on the proven battlefield success of the K98. Initially, the K98 was seen by German military leadership as one of the few areas in the Wehrmacht that did not need significant improvement, thus the research and development efforts were focused elsewhere. Other significant military forces of the period used bolt action rifles, such as the Lee Enfield SMLE of the British Army (and many others) and the Springfield M1903 of the United States (the M1 Garand was initially in short supply, and the M1903 was issued regularly as a stopgap measure until approximately 1942). Early battlefield reports backed up these beliefs. The rifle had proven accuracy at ranges up to 2000m, legendary reliability, a ready supply of parts and ammunition, and such a simple design that it was very easy to train soldiers on. These were all contributing factors to the Mauser K98's success. The characteristics of warfare had changed dramatically by World War II, however, and extreme accuracy to the level of the K98 was not nearly as important as sustained rate of fire. Specifically, it was not until the Nazis encountered significant resistance at the hands of the Soviets, armed with the new Tokarev SVT 40's, that feelings on this subject began to change. In fact, the captured Tokarev SVT 40 rifles were the basis for the design of the Gewehr 41, which was later improved to the Gewehr 43.

The M1 Garand had several of the same qualities of the K98: reliability, simplicity of design, ease of use, a high degree of accuracy, and a ready supply of parts and ammunition. What the Garand also had that the K98 lacked was a high sustained rate of fire due to being semi-automatic versus bolt action as well as having a much faster reload time. These two major improvements allowed U.S. infantrymen to provide a much higher volume of firepower on the battlefield than their German counterparts. By the time that leadership of the Third Reich realized their mistake and began to take steps to adopt a semi-automatic rifle as standard armament for the Wehrmacht, it would prove to be too little, too late, especially once Germany was engaged with U.S. forces equipped with the M1 Garand. Germany learned this lesson the hard way, but was unable to refit an entire army with a completely new primary weapon system while at war, especially with factories and other logistical assets facing destruction at the hands of Allied bombers and saboteurs on a regular basis. It could be argued that this was a major factor contributing to Germany's loss in World War II.

Machine guns and mortars, just like all infantry weapons, have specific roles to fulfill on the battlefield. The rifle is no exception. Nazi Germany, strictly speaking from a standpoint of innovation in the arena of military technology, was one of the most advanced countries on the planet in its day. I am no fan of the ideology, politics, or world views, by any stretch of the imagination. Their technological feats, however, speak for themselves. Whether you look at feats of rocketry (V series theater ballistic missiles) aircraft development (Me 163b Komet rocket powered aircraft, or Me 262 Sturmvogel, world's first operational jet powered aircraft) naval warfare (U Boats, "Wolfpack" submarine versus surface fleet tactics), land warfare (Panzer series tanks, in particular the Panther), combined arms tactics ("Blitzkrieg" which is the basis for all modern conventional warfare to this day) or infantry small arms such as the StG 44, the world's first true assault rifle, or the FG 42, which would have had this distinction had it not been for its use of a full size rifle cartridge.

To expand further on Nazi Germany's small arms development, consider the following. This is just a small sample of the small arms developed and fielded by the Nazis during WWII in an attempt to gain a technological edge on the battlefield. From 1939 to 1945, Nazi Germany produced and fielded the following infantry weapon systems.

FG 42 - Airborne forces assault rifle
Gewehr 41 - Semi-automatic rifle
Gewehr 43 - Semi-automatic rifle
Sturmgewehr 44 - Assault rifle
Karabiner 98K - Bolt-action rifle
MG 08 - Heavy water-cooled machine gun (WWI design, phased out by 1942)
MG 15 - General-purpose air-cooled machine gun (originally an aircraft defense weapon, later many were modified for infantry use)
MG 34 - General-purpose air-cooled machine gun
MG 42 - General-purpose air-cooled machine gun
MG 81 - General-purpose air-cooled machine gun (originally an aircraft defense weapon, later many were modified for infantry use)
MP 28 - Submachine gun
MP3008 (commonly referred to as the Erma) - Submachine gun
MP 34 - Submachine Gun
MP 38 - Submachine gun
MP 40 - Submachine gun
MP 41 - Submachine gun
Pistole 08 (Luger) - Semi-automatic pistol
Walther P38 - Semi-automatic pistol
Walther PP - Semi-automatic pistol
Panzerb?chse 38 - Antitank rifle
Panzerb?chse 39 - Antitank rifle
Panzerfaust 30/60/100/150 - Single Shot disposable antitank rocket launcher (number refers to effective range
Panzershreck - Antitank rocket launcher


This list does not include multiple prototype weapons, private venture weapons, weapons that were not formally adopted, foreign produced weapons that were adopted for use, and special purpose weapons (such as the Flammenwerfer series of flamethrowers), that were developed or used but not as broadly during this time frame.

The above pieces of information, specifically items such as weapon designations and features, were pulled from a variety of sources, many in print versus online. I will be happy to provide sources upon request, however have not done so with this post, simply because I did not want to spend the time looking up information that is general knowledge, or readily available to me in print that I did not want to look up a source for online. Other items are my own conclusions, and as such are my personal opinions, drawn from the available information. Feel free to agree or disagree at your discretion. I welcome constructive criticism and debate.

Sorry to be long winded, but this is one of my favorite subjects, if you couldn't tell. ;-)

Ts4EVER
2011-12-17, 11:30
Well you are right, of course the rifle is not completely useless, otherwise they wouldn't have fielded any. But in the big scheme of combat, modern battles are still decided by firepower output and in that department bolt action rifles were probably even outdated by WW1, considering the shortish combat distances.
BTW you mention the Tokarev SVT40 rifle: at the beginning of the war, these were supposed to become the standard Soviet infantry rifle, however, the Russians actually put the Mosin Nagant back into production. In the end, ease of production and maintenance were much bigger factors than any increase in combat efficiency. At the same time, the Russian stocked up the standard number of lmgs in their infantry squads from 1 to 3.

About your weapon list:

MG 08 - Heavy water-cooled machine gun (WWI design, phased out by 1942)

Was used until the end of the war.

MP3008 (commonly referred to as the Erma) - Submachine gun

This was mostly for militia use, I don't even know if any were ever fielded outside of the factory.

MP 28 - Submachine gun
MP 34 - Submachine Gun


I would also include the MP35/I (produced in large numbers exclusively for the SS in Denmark) and the EMP35 (produced for SS and captured from France) in that list. These kinds of MP18 derivatives were very popular with SS and police units.
Generally speaking though, the Germans fielded more PPsh41s (also as the MP41(r) in 9mm) and Beretta smgs (more of those were produced by Germany than the MP40 in the last months of the war) than these older models.

MP 41 - Submachine gun

This was used by SS exclusively and stopped production due to copy right issues.
One of the SS soldiers in this famous Photo fromt he Warsaw Ghetto uprising has one, btw:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/Holocaust/stroop.jpg

Other than that, there are several items missing on that list that were very common, but not necessarily produced in Germany.

This baby for example:

http://media.desura.com/cache/images/mods/1/6/5480/thumb_940x3000/zb26.jpg

Foreign lmgs like that one or the French FM24/29 as well as the polish and belgian BARs were very common among the fortress units guarding the Normandy beaches, probably more common than the MG42 (with the exception of the 352. Infanterie).

Stoickk
2011-12-17, 13:30
:D

I am glad to see someone that shares my love for the subject. As stated, my list was not all inclusive. I restricted it to German designed weapons, and as such did not include captured and adopted weapons, or those that were of design origins outside Germany. As for the Erma, they did see use, especially early in the war, as they were basically a copy of the British Sten. They were replaced quickly as the design was generally unreliable and prone to mechanical problems. As for the MG 08, by the end of 1942, the only use the MG08 saw was rear echelon usage as an AA emplacement. The MG 34 and the MG 42 had replaced it for infantry type units due to the weight issues accompanying a water cooled weapon. Additionally the modified aircraft machine guns such as the MG 15 were used in that role as well.

You are also correct about the Soviets putting the Mosin Nagant back into production. Again, ease of production, availability of parts and ammunition, ease of training, etc. played a role in this. Also playing a role in this decision would be the heavy damage to both Soviet infrastructure and manpower in the early years of the war. The Mosin Nagant was very easy to issue to personnel with minimal training, such as the conscripted personnel that were in broad use in the Soviet Army.

My reference to the SVT 40 was primarily from Germany's initial offensive against the Soviets, in their first push to take Moscow. They were handed heavy losses, and German high command learned quickly that while Blitzkrieg tactics were effective, one area that they had neglected was improvement of their standard infantry weapon. The Soviets learned from those battles as well, thus their increase in the deployment of machine guns to their infantry.

Every military learns lessons in wartime, and is forced to adapt and improve, or be eliminated. France would be a prime example of this. They insisted on maintaining their Maginot line for defense, which Germany crushed in very short order. France tried to fight in World War II the way that World War I was fought, and failed miserably. Accordingly, the British lost their largest naval ally very early in the war. Many don't realize, but France had the fourth largest navy in the world at the time. This loss cost the allies dearly, as German U boats ended up sinking 14.5 million tons of allied shipping before the end of the war, killing over 36,000 merchant sailors, another 36,000 naval personnel, approximately 3500 merchant vessels, and 175 warships. Just think how much differently the Battle of the Atlantic would have gone with the French Navy in the fight.

Man, I love this stuff. :)

Ts4EVER
2011-12-17, 16:46
The MP3008 in early war? AFAIK it was a last ditch defensive weapon. You might be thinking of the EMP35, which was also made by the Erma company.

Stoickk
2011-12-17, 17:32
I stand corrected, Sir. You are indeed correct. The Erma MP3008 was indeed a late war last ditch weapon, and only about 10,000 were produced. These were designed and produced around the same time frame as the VG 1 through 5 series rifles. I probably was thinking of the EMP35. :)

Back to the topic at hand though, we're probably boring the hell out of people with the history lessons. :D

How do we balance game play for Wehrmacht players with K98's versus U.S. players with M1 Garands?

Historically, the two rifles shared comparable accuracy, stopping power, and range. Therefore, deviation or projectile damage simply does not work for balancing. Personally, I am in favor of the suggested asymmetric balancing proposed earlier in the thread. However, I think it goes beyond just the BAR versus the MG34. While those two weapons help to even the gap somewhat, they don't balance the battlefield. Some other possibilities (keep in mind that I am merely brainstorming here, and all of these ideas are simply that, and open to criticism and suggestion) might be to increase panzershreck damage, as historically the panzershreck hit considerably harder than the bazooka. It had a full 50mm more armor penetration. If it were possible to get a model, the STG 44 could be added as either an alt AR or an alt Grenadier weapon. I am thinking that, due to the strong similarities of appearance, starting with a basic AK47 model, modification wouldn't be overly difficult. However, I am not a modeler, so I may very well be talking out of my ass on that one. One thing about the K98 that was an advantage over the Garand was that "topping off" the rifle without emptying the magazine was much easier due to the design. Perhaps changing the K98 to a single round ammo count versus a magazine count, allowing Wehrmacht soldiers to top off individual rounds expended would help. This would give them a bit more longevity in lengthy firefights where supplies are low. A bonus would be if Garands could be coded to not allow reloads mid magazine. I don't know if that is possible with the BF2 engine though. I'll post more ideas on this subject if I come up with any.

AfterDune
2011-12-17, 18:05
Also, the M1 Garand right now has 10 bullets, which will be 8 in a next version. Plus, you can reload in the middle of a magazine. I'm hoping to make it just like in FH2, that you can only reload when your mag is empty. That would balance the two rifles a bit as well.

Ts4EVER
2011-12-17, 18:12
Note that the Garand can be reloaded mid clip irl. The only reason this is impossible in Fh2 is because it is the only way to get the "Ping" in.

AfterDune
2011-12-17, 18:37
Yeah, it's possible to reload it mid clip, but for balance reasons I think it's best.

Didn't know that's the only way to get the ping-thing though. The Garand in PN has the ping in its reload animation. Not entirely realistic, but it's fine as it is - at least for now.

Ts4EVER
2011-12-17, 18:41
AfterDune;1708329']Yeah, it's possible to reload it mid clip, but for balance reasons I think it's best.

Didn't know that's the only way to get the ping-thing though. The Garand in PN has the ping in its reload animation. Not entirely realistic, but it's fine as it is - at least for now.


Well thing is ideally you want the ping to come automatically and not caused by players.

AfterDune
2011-12-17, 18:48
Definitely. But the weapon is coded/animated otherwise - and I don't have the skills to fix it up I'm afraid..

KaizerSosa81
2011-12-19, 19:58
Well thing is ideally you want the ping to come automatically and not caused by players.

Right, the infamous "ping" sound of the M1 Garand is what is usually used as a sign that the enemy your engaging is empty and needs to reload. This gives Wehrmacht players (especially the K98k users) a great sign to pop out of cover and fire at a reloading enemy.

Definitely helpful audio cue that helps a tad with balance for the fair minded player.

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-19, 23:29
Actually it was designed so friendlies know when you're out of ammo so they can cover you while you reload :)

KaizerSosa81
2011-12-20, 15:18
Actually it was designed so friendlies know when you're out of ammo so they can cover you while you reload

I notice every time you try to correct me when I'm discussing pure game play audio/mechanics. Is it not obvious that I'm talking about game play here for players or I'm I trying to have a historical discussion?

APG tried to manufacture soft plastic in use with the en-bloc clip to lessen the sound of it's injection as enemies were using this distinguishing sound for these very purposes (I was actually trying to describe strictly for K98k users in in-game purposes) though it never happened. It's convenience allowed fellow near by soldiers to know when someone was empty but it wasn't designed specifically for that. If such is the case it was merely a survival adaptation between soldiers on the field, in which such a gruesome war - I wouldn't blame them.

It's annoying to the person who has studied WWII for the past nine years to have someone constantly trying to throw information around one already knows and could elaborate into greater more accurate detail. Stop making my visit to the PN section annoying please... thanks.



EDIT: Sorry if I come off as a d***, but I rather have someone elaborate with me other then constantly try to correct me but it's my fault as I should have taken it to PM.

Mikemonster
2011-12-20, 15:42
But what he said is true regarding the game as well. Let's keep it nice and friendly.

AfterDune
2011-12-20, 15:45
"Let's keep it nice and friendly"

This. Thank you.

Pvt.LHeureux
2011-12-20, 19:26
EDIT: Sorry if I come off as a d***, but I rather have someone elaborate with me other then constantly try to correct me but it's my fault as I should have taken it to PM.
Yeah no problem, I didn't saw the word "players" in your sentence. So I thought you were talking about the real life wermacht soldiers.

A. Reaper
2011-12-22, 23:54
Hmmm. Bolt fast as HUMANLY possible, reload faster than M1 Garand because M1 was also known for clipping at thumbs while reloading (In-game slowing M1 reload due to carefulness?), Kar 98k's 7.62 being a little more powerful than M1.

Above is so far what I've came up with.

Ts4EVER
2011-12-24, 13:32
I don't think there is much of a possibility for an incentive by changing stats, at least not without going into ridiculous terrain. Over practical combat distances there is no single drawback to having a semi automatic rifle.

AfterDune
2012-01-02, 10:13
The G43 was generally very rare and mostly issued to squad leaders and snipers. The K98k was the standard infantry weapon during the war.
Right, the G43 will be available in the Officer Alt kit, no longer for the Rifleman Alt.

Right now however, the Rifleman and Rifleman Alt kits are the same (for the Germans). I'd like to make them slightly different, so if anyone has a good suggestion, feel free to let us know.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-02, 10:22
MP40, simple as that.

EDIT : The alt-rifleman kit wouldn't be limited, to Assault squads would be forming and using SMGs only, we are looking into this and getting really interesting things out of it.

Smiddey723
2012-01-02, 10:23
One kit could have ammo, and the other could have grenades?

Possibly reduce the amount of ammo the MG has and make it into an MG assistant which carries some ammo for the MG

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-02, 10:24
Naah, ammo is too important and is and will always be the main role of the rifleman kit in PR. I think adding more SMGs is needed anyway :)

KaizerSosa81
2012-01-02, 12:34
Perhaps make the alternate rifleman kit limited (for both sides) and make the Wehrmacht Alt kit a K98k with ZF41 scope. Just adjust it so it's useful but essentially far less zoom capabilities of a standard sniper scope. Something more or less range wise like a modern day ACOG, since liberties are being taken here on authenticity I don't think it would be that bad.

Ts4EVER
2012-01-02, 19:47
Well since your german foces are defending the beach you could put any type of captured rifle in there theoretically.

Wakain
2012-01-02, 22:04
AfterDune;1714213']Right, the G43 will be available in the Officer Alt kit, no longer for the Rifleman Alt.

Right now however, the Rifleman and Rifleman Alt kits are the same (for the Germans). I'd like to make them slightly different, so if anyone has a good suggestion, feel free to let us know.

don't know if these are ingame yet, but perhaps something like rifle grenades (unless you use the grenadier kit for those ofcourse) vs grenades, that sort of thing.

frankly I doubt this timeframe (with exceptions) has need of the many kitvariations the pr engine (as we might call it) offers.

KarlHungus
2012-01-02, 23:16
Perhaps make the alternate rifleman kit limited (for both sides) and make the Wehrmacht Alt kit a K98k with ZF41 scope. Just adjust it so it's useful but essentially far less zoom capabilities of a standard sniper scope. Something more or less range wise like a modern day ACOG, since liberties are being taken here on authenticity I don't think it would be that bad.

Why not keep it authentic? The ZF41 only had 1.5x magnification (as opposed to 2.5x, 4x, 6x, and 8x that were used on sniper rifles).

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-03, 00:40
Why not having a ZF41 model first :)?

KaizerSosa81
2012-01-03, 02:43
Why not keep it authentic? The ZF41 only had 1.5x magnification (as opposed to 2.5x, 4x, 6x, and 8x that were used on sniper rifles).

Well the authenticity remark was gears toward having a bunch of ZF41 equipped rifleman running around, more often then would one imagine realistically on the battlefield. As I stated, making it an limited Alt kit would fix this.

The whole explanation about the scope was just me trying to explain how it should be implemented as I'm not sure if this is going to be community made (or done by AD) and how privy one would be with era weaponry/accessories.

Why not having a ZF41 model first :)?

Alternate kit would fit it best quite honestly.

AfterDune
2012-01-03, 05:02
No, what Pvt.LHeureux means is that we have no such model ;).

Ts4EVER
2012-01-04, 12:54
You could have a version with bayonet attached and one without. The melee attack of the one without bayonet would be a smack with the rifle butt and take two hits to kill. In exchange that kit could get one more grenade or something like that.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-04, 18:04
You could have a version with bayonet attached and one without. The melee attack of the one without bayonet would be a smack with the rifle butt and take two hits to kill. In exchange that kit could get one more grenade or something like that.

Animators

https://camo.team9000.net/ca98552d312ea03ef540f6e296a7b487b276c93f/687474703a2f2f63687a6d656d65626173652e66696c65732e 776f726470726573732e636f6d2f323031312f30312f616c69 656e737371756172652e6a7067

Ts4EVER
2012-01-05, 01:17
Well at some point you will have to stop stretching out the old content and just make some new stuff.

Arc_Shielder
2012-01-05, 14:44
Well at some point you will have to stop stretching out the old content and just make some new stuff.

I agree. Are you offering to do those animations?

Ts4EVER
2012-01-06, 00:04
I agree. Are you offering to do those animations?

No, but I'm no member of the PR Normandy team. All I'm saying is: If no new stuff is made, all these discussions are basically academic.

Arc_Shielder
2012-01-06, 02:28
No, but I'm no member of the PR Normandy team. All I'm saying is: If no new stuff is made, all these discussions are basically academic.

I agree, that's why I'm telling you to offer yourself to do some animations for them. I'm pretty sure they would like a hand.
I'm serious.

However, if you're just suggesting something - and have no skills in that area -, then I really can't see why a dual bayonet melee animation would incentive players to pick up a K98. Wehrmacht players complain about the rate of fire and time to reload, and you want them to go after the americans like in the Middle Ages?

I'm pretty sure new stuff is being done and they're also filling the gaps and amending any spotted flaws in the current version. Call it a sixth sense (aka a few months bookmark), but a lot of sweet things are taking shape right now. :mrgreen:

Ts4EVER
2012-01-06, 10:17
AfterDune;1714213']Right, the G43 will be available in the Officer Alt kit, no longer for the Rifleman Alt.

Right now however, the Rifleman and Rifleman Alt kits are the same (for the Germans). I'd like to make them slightly different, so if anyone has a good suggestion, feel free to let us know.

It's in response to this post.

Arc_Shielder
2012-01-06, 14:06
It's in response to this post.

Oh, I see, sorry for that then.

Ts4EVER
2012-01-06, 23:58
Not really a suggestion, but if anyone is interestedin the equipment of your average German infantry force around Normandy:

kstn131n1mai44 (http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131n1mai44.htm)

After Normandy this organisation was adopted:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131v1sep44.htm

This is also where the German spawn selection changes in Fh2 ;)

KaizerSosa81
2012-01-20, 18:55
Still have this lingering issue unfortunately...

Was using the K98k for entire match the other day and definitely was not as effective as other class kits. This is suppose to be the standard infantry rifle for the Wehrmacht, and I would honestly like to see something done so I (and others) can use it more often and not become a merely wasted slot on the squad list.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-20, 19:42
Kaizer, PN wasn't updated yet, K98 will deal more damage.

KaizerSosa81
2012-01-21, 00:20
Kaizer, PN wasn't updated yet, K98 will deal more damage.

Ah, okay... a slight tweak on deviation would be great too (nothing too ridiculous of course, just subtle) but let's see how it performs with the update I guess. It's definitely the weapon I prefer as a rifleman.

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-01-21, 01:07
There will be more K98 next release so it better be good :razz:

KaizerSosa81
2012-01-21, 01:11
There will be more K98 next release so it better be good :razz:

Yes, that's right I forgot about that too. Ah, well then... it will truly be a test for the performance of this weapon. Hope it's up for the task.

A. Reaper
2012-04-14, 18:48
Simple: Make K98k easier and faster to reload, while Garand and Gewehr 43 are harder and slower. And from what I can tell, they really are.

Also, Garand is 7.62 while K98k is 7.92. I don't know the G43's caliber.

MrTomRobs
2012-04-14, 21:38
Someone mentioned the use of the MP40 as the alt rifleman kit. Good suggestion IMO! A lot of regiments in the wermacht had a mixture of MP40s and K98ks.

Keep the range short and then you can have MGs and K98ks for defending the beaches, then for the bocage and urbans you can have the mix of MP40 and K98k.

Just my 2 humble pennies!

Pvt.LHeureux
2012-04-14, 22:01
It's going to change.

G43 will be rare, only officers and maybe some other kits.

K98 will be the base for all rifleman kits.

MP40 will be only held by Officers and in some special kits.

KaizerSosa81
2012-04-17, 18:08
It's going to change.

G43 will be rare, only officers and maybe some other kits.

K98 will be the base for all rifleman kits.

MP40 will be only held by Officers and in some special kits.


As it should be. Bravo... :m1helmet: