Gamey balance solutions in a reality mod?

[TexRoadkill]

I usually play Sniper or Support and both of them I run out pretty quickly. Especially Support, I can go through those two mags in a minute or so.

I understand what you guys are saying about grenade spam but I think the spawn delay would help negate that. In vanilla BF with the fast respawns it is a good tactic to spam grenades but in PRMM there just isn't the constant swarm of enemies to eat your shrapnel. Anybody who sat there spamming nades would just be throwing into an empty spawn point most of the time.

Couldn't you have a longer reload time for grenades instead of a rearm delay? If it took 10 seconds to get a fresh load of grenades that would stop any ridiculous spamming.

[Malik]

I must say, the SPR's ammo balance is almost laughable. Alright, alright, I know you've got to make it fair on all the other DM snipers, but the fact that the poor USMC sniper can only carry his rifle, two grenades, a knife, a pistol, some binoculars and one extra magazine is funny, especially when the assault class basically has exactly the same stuff plus magic ammo bags and a grenade launcher. If the assault class can carry 5 mags, so should the USMC DM. I saw a video of a US army contractor using the SPR how's it meant to be used, he was just giving almost rapid fire with the SPR and went through about 5 magazines in total, just sitting in his position firing away at the enemies.

I guess the best way to solve this would be to swap out the SPR's magazines with the alternative straight 10 round magazines.

[brokencrow]

Originally Posted by SOTOLeo

eggmans post was probably just deleted... i guess

but i did want to reply to that post. I'm not here to be "snot nosed" about the mod. not my intention at all.

My aim wasn't off when i was 4-5 ft away from an enemy soldier, as it happened many times, shooting him the face with a Silenced pistol 4-5 times without him blinking, just to be killed by maybe 2 shots afterwards with his rifle.

its frustrating.

and i also did not mean that being killed equates either sitting down for the rest of the round/day/whatever

Im totally with you on this. I dont mean to sound "snotty" either and I also understand that there has to be a certain "fun" factor in this mod. BUT, as the above mentioned, shooting someone 5 times with a pistol only to get killed by his rifle is neither "fun" or "realistic". I'm not suggesting that PRMM be turned into "Teh ultimate realistic war sim 1.0". I realise the BF2 engine's limitations dont really allow for that.

I think that steps need to be taken to keep the game squad based and "pseudo" realistic as you are making out by the title of the mod that it is a realism based mod. Class limits are necessary and while it doesnt need to be "1 shot, 1 kill", I think there are plenty of games that have proved that having fairly realistic damage can still be great fun (OFP springs to mind).

I have to admit that I am on the realism side of this debate. I dont find pumping six bullets into someone fun or realistic. The simple fact is, that having to shoot multiple times alerts other enemies to your presence. Even if the guy you are shooting doesnt kill you, you will inevitably attract unwelcome attention.

Anyway, I've said it once and I'll say it again, great mod.

JM2C

BC

[Shining Arcanine]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

I don't understand why you guys are making some of these 'balance' decisions like the grenade delay and ridiculously low ammo. Neither of these are realistic in any way and just detract from the game IMHO.

The quest for balance with BS solutions is what ruins BF2 in the first place.

I know the problem with grenades and 203 shells is that they are way too effective outdoors. In reality there is more ground clutter and subtle dips in terrain so that somebody a few feet away could hit the dirt and possibly escape injury. It seems like a better solution then a gamey delay would be to alter the direction of shrapnel (if possible) so that there is a slight 'dead space' at ground level where somebody is less likely to be hit if they take cover.

If there is more ground clutter in reality, there should be more ground clutter in the game.

By the way, switch over from burst/auto to single/burst and you will be amazed at how long your ammo lasts.

[Shining Arcanine]

Originally Posted by Armand61685

Why is it that reasonable realism is mutually exclusive to fun with you people? And please, no straw man argument about having the game so real that you die in real life if you die in the game. You know what us MIL-SIM people are talking about: as much realism as possible with this engine, which would thus render PR fun.

REALISM = FUN

That is true. In regard to Vanilla Battlefield 2, everyone said that if it was made to realistic, it would not be fun, and yet we have Project Reality which is very realistic compared to Vanilla Battlefield 2 and it is fun.

Edit: I forgot that I had posted in this thread. Would a moderator please merge my posts?

[Malik]

Pistols fired at body armour would do very little damage in both real life and in PRMM. If you hit them in the head, two shots at most are required to kill them, I do this all the time with the AT and sniper class.

[SOTOLeo]

Originally Posted by brokencrow

Im totally with you on this. I dont mean to sound "snotty" either and I also understand that there has to be a certain "fun" factor in this mod. BUT, as the above mentioned, shooting someone 5 times with a pistol only to get killed by his rifle is neither "fun" or "realistic". I'm not suggesting that PRMM be turned into "Teh ultimate realistic war sim 1.0". I realise the BF2 engine's limitations dont really allow for that.

I think that steps need to be taken to keep the game squad based and "pseudo" realistic as you are making out by the title of the mod that it is a realism based mod. Class limits are necessary and while it doesnt need to be "1 shot, 1 kill", I think there are plenty of games that have proved that having fairly realistic damage can still be great fun (OFP springs to mind).

I have to admit that I am on the realism side of this debate. I dont find pumping six bullets into someone fun or realistic. The simple fact is, that having to shoot multiple times alerts other enemies to your presence. Even if the guy you are shooting doesnt kill you, you will inevitably attract unwelcome attention.

Anyway, I've said it once and I'll say it again, great mod.

JM2C

BC

exactly! glad somebody else has the same state of mind.

[Shining Arcanine]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

I usually play Sniper or Support and both of them I run out pretty quickly. Especially Support, I can go through those two mags in a minute or so.

I understand what you guys are saying about grenade spam but I think the spawn delay would help negate that. In vanilla BF with the fast respawns it is a good tactic to spam grenades but in PRMM there just isn't the constant swarm of enemies to eat your shrapnel. Anybody who sat there spamming nades would just be throwing into an empty spawn point most of the time.

Couldn't you have a longer reload time for grenades instead of a rearm delay? If it took 10 seconds to get a fresh load of grenades that would stop any ridiculous spamming.

If you are continually firing, then I can understand why you are running out of ammo on the support class. However support is supposed to fire many shots in short bursts, not be continually firing (as that will make the gun overheat and then there is the reload delay, during which enermy will know that you cannot fire at him and will make his move then. With many bursts, the enermy is afraid to poke his head out of his rabbit hole because he does not know if you stopped firing on purpose or you simply ran out of ammo.

Not to mention you have to run out of ammo some time and those reloads are very heavy, support infantry simply cannot carry many of them and they are supposed to be resupplied.

Originally Posted by Malik

Pistols fired at body armour would do very little damage in both real life and in PRMM. If you hit them in the head, two shots at most are required to kill them, I do this all the time with the AT and sniper class.

Exactly.

[brokencrow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik
Pistols fired at body armour would do very little damage in both real life and in PRMM. If you hit them in the head, two shots at most are required to kill them, I do this all the time with the AT and sniper class.

"Pistols" is covering a lot of ground. I dont mean to be a stickler but at close range body armor isnt necessarily stopping anything. Even if the armor does stop the round, you may well have broken ribs etc depending on where you get hit. I know this is all for nothing and I am nitpicking but I think the point is really if the weapon is that useless, why have it at all? I mean why not give us a few extra grenades or a few mags instead?

What several people, including myself are getting at is the fact that

A : There is no mention of any body armor in this game.

B : It is annoying, having pumped several rounds into someone only to have them turn around unphased and kill you. I think we can all agree that armour may stop bullets but I think 5 rounds in the chest may interrupt your concentration at the very least.

C. It is very true that ceramic armour can stop 7.62 x 39 rounds at a distance. I totally agree with that. So put it in the game and have a speed penalty or something for people who want to wear it.

Im all for a fun game with a realistic balance. It doesnt have to be exactly like real combat, but realism and fun can coexist.

S

[ghosty]

Its amazing that the devs get all worked up over this when they should just listen.

If you have a ammo truck in real life you could take a crate of gernades out and start throwing them continuously at the enemy... if this happens you call in an air strike to take them out. My point is pretty soon if you make it super realistic you are going to have to start training the players. Your throwing a realistic mod and non experienced players togather.

But remember everyone your being critical about this game play and thats ok but make sure you understand that these DEV's are working for the man... for free.