Gamey balance solutions in a reality mod?

[Armand61685]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]eggman

Hrm .. not sure I would consider those "gamey balance solutions" at all.

Around the ammo load out, think of it as though you are already in a firefight and have spent some ammo. 4 and 6 mags as a loadout is low, but not ridiculously low. It also encurages teamwork. I don't see it as gamey.

The nade delay I also don't see as gamey... the intent was to more realistically reflect the time it takes to grab a second grenande off your kit (as opposed to one magically appearing in your hand). We've still got some tweaking to do there. The by product of that is it helps prevent "nade spamming" which is a gamey element we are trying to minimise.

In terms of the damage caused by weapons... I wuld agree we have much room for improvement there, but will never lose sight of the fact that it's gotta be fun to play first, realistic second.

egg

Why is it that reasonable realism is mutually exclusive to fun with you people? And please, no straw man argument about having the game so real that you die in real life if you die in the game. You know what us MIL-SIM people are talking about: as much realism as possible with this engine, which would thus render PR fun.

REALISM = FUN

[TexRoadkill]

I apologize if my remarks were taken as being snotty. I'm merely expressing an opinion and trying to offer some alternatives. Overall I really enjoy the mod but a few things seem to ruin the fun.

I know you guys are changing the grenade delay but really it only takes a few seconds to pull a grenade. I don't understand why 'grenade spam' is even an issue. That is what the BF2 crowd complains like they do when anything kills them. If you watch the Shootout series on Discover they almost always throw multiple grenades when they want to clear a courtyard or room. It's the way grenades are meant to be used.

In regards to ammo most tac vests can hold 8 magazines as a standard loadout. I'll buy the limited ammo scenario but the one that really irks me is the sniper loadout, 2 magazines?! If I was a sniper in that army I'd be buying my own ammo.

I didn't realize that trucks would reload ammo. I'll have to use that more.

[RikiRude]

SOTO take a chill pill before you post
We aren't trying to make a Mil-Sim, if we were BF2 wouldn't be the right platform to start off with.
""In terms of the damage caused by weapons... I wuld agree we have much room for improvement there, but will never lose sight of the fact that it's gotta be fun to play first, realistic second.

egg"


then why was this called project reality? why not call it Project Fun First Reality Second? PFFRS false advertising in my opinion."

please thats just horrible attitude to start yourself off with, not a good first impression, if you want a mod that puts fun second, have a good time with that and tell us how it is, because personally, i like fun first, its the whole point of a game.


To Tex when we say grenade spamming what would happen before is that you would get a supply crate, or ammo bags, and the soldiers would sit around it and toss grenades for a good minute straight. And with .3 this has been eliminated, what you are talking about, IS a good tactic (whole squad tossing nades before entering an area) PS that Shootout show is AMAZING! Also the idea with the shrapinel would be cool to fix (which i doubt it is =( )

i actually agree that the sniper loadout is a little low, because the fact that you should be operating on a higher out of the way location from your squad you usually get killed on your way to an assualt to get more ammo =/ , but at the sametime it makes sniper think twice about wasting ammo.

tex i have one question for you though, do you actually run out of ammo alot? and what kits do you usually use? do you use alot of covering fire? personally i almost never run out of ammo, only when im sniper or AT, and i live pretty long. just asking so i can understand where you are comming from.

[torio]

I run out of ammo sometimes as eingineer and medic, but olny when i've lost my ammo suppliers.

[willgar]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

...
I don't understand why 'grenade spam' is even an issue. That is what the BF2 crowd complains like they do when anything kills them...

In Vanilla and in one of the PRMM builds, some players would exploit the ability to produce unlimited ammo resupply (that was previously in support kits) - to find a completely covered area (up a crane, very high roof) and literally spam a flag with grenades. Not just 1 or 2, but a grenade every 3 secs for several minutes. This is neither realistic or fun - it was simple a reason to log off and find another server.

If a game is not fun then nobody will play. To give a concrete example, spawn camping is not fun nor is the ability to instantly spawn at a flag which is in the middle of a fire fight realistic - it is an element of the game. To increase realism, it would make sense to only allow spawning within a secure compound (as a reinforcement) well away from the fighting and force soilders to wait for transport to move to the front lines.

Can you imagine the 'fun' of waiting for a truck to arrive (10 mins) and drive you a few miles to the frontlines (10 mins) and then die after 1 min in combat to respawn back at the home base.... (PR servers 0 / active players 0)

Many of the post that want realism, only want it in one particular area (make pistols 1 shot 1 kill etc) but within the constratints of giving enjoyment to players, there has to be some compromise. My attitdute is that PRMM is an order of magnitude better than vanilla BF2 and every version seems to be getting bettter.

To reafirm your faith, go play vanilla and experiance the abusive, rambo-esque, gun and run, feature exploiting and general lack of teamwork. After 10 mins of that, i think you will realise why PRMM is growing as fast as it is.

[Pnutfoo]

Originally Posted by willgar

To reafirm your faith, go play vanilla and experiance the abusive, rambo-esque, gun and run, feature exploiting and general lack of teamwork. After 10 mins of that, i think you will realise why PRMM is growing as fast as it is.

Worked for me

[SOTOLeo]

Originally Posted by willgar

Can you imagine the 'fun' of waiting for a truck to arrive (10 mins) and drive you a few miles to the frontlines (10 mins) and then die after 1 min in combat to respawn back at the home base.... (PR servers 0 / active players 0)

i know im an extreme here, i have to admit that but... i actually wouldn't mind that at all. it gives you a sensation that youre in a scenario where staying alive is worth your time, so when you get killed that is an incentive to prevent you from being ok with getting killed. "oh nooo not the wait again... i cant get killed this time!" another advantage of that: no base raping because... there is no specific location that people spawn in at all! its random and far away.

besides what i said about the pistol damage was, again, not that you get killed with just one shot, its when you see the enemy soldiers face and you shoot it, even a few times, and he aims right back at you while taking shots to his face and kills you on the spot.

[redyama]

Road to Kyongan Ni is already pretty much like that, as far as fighting over the central bridge flag is concerned. So long as your team are reasonable, you should have no hassle getting to the front after getting killed. I think the respawn timer growth already gives you plenty of incentive not to rush in and get killed.

[Armand61685]

I say this again, REALISM IN THE RIGHT PLACES = FUN.

[six7]

Originally Posted by redyama

Road to Kyongan Ni is already pretty much like that, as far as fighting over the central bridge flag is concerned. So long as your team are reasonable, you should have no hassle getting to the front after getting killed. I think the respawn timer growth already gives you plenty of incentive not to rush in and get killed.

I dont know how many times I have stated this... Mappers need to think about how the game will play more than how it will look. Maybe you devs can set a list of standard requirments to mappers the likes of: "Does your map encourage/allow spawnkilling due to spawn and flag placement?" I really hate to see beautiful maps go to waste because of poor flag and spawn placement. I have not yet seen someone just charge down an open road at the enemy on this map. It is fun and tactical, even on public games.

Don't make me start another thread/poll on this J/K