[Map] Wuzhai [WIP]

[Jonny]

Right, driven and flown around it.

Open areas:
Very good, very open. But I think you need wider valleys. Really wide if they are that deep. It is moorland, not mountainous.

Lack of cover really hands it over to mechanised infantry, which is good on this sized map.

Forests:
They look dense from the air, but they are not dense enough.

You almost have it, they are already much better than Quinling, but you need more of an understorey to hide from choppers and infantry. Dont sacrafice the overstorey for it though. The extra objects can be ballanced out with the moorland.

If you are familiar with AoEII then try to remember the black forest kind of map. I really think your style of forest would suit it very very well.

There was basically large forests around the map, which limited your options for moving, and also large almost fractal like open areas all over. With dense forests and vast open expanses your map would rock.

As well as roads winding through these open 'bars' through neighboring forest cut out by regular partols you could place one or two military outposts which would provide good, easy to defend places to set up base inside the deep forest.

FOB:
The attacking forces should either be using a major road to move to attack or the forests. So the FOB should be in the deep forest covered by cammo netting to stop it being seen so easily from the air.

Remove the runway. If this is the kind of quick, decisive strike operation I thought you were setting up then it has to go, air support can be called in from other places.

I also believe it should be a small village area in the vicinity if not just a clearing, but with no direct road to the facility. Invading forces would most likely set up an FOB here as it provides reday made infrastructure with little possibility of activity being seen as suspicious. Especially if there is a village closer with direct transport routes to the factory which would act as the place where workers would reside.

Whats with the block of concrete?
Teamlock the vehicles ASAP, its not hard and you will have to do it sometime.
Your bunker is screwed.

Rivers:
None?

You really need some, and a lake or two somewhere. You seem to have made a good start in places, but have not yet carried it on.

They DO happen in this terrain, and will help with your land use because they dont take up many ojects. The higher bits can be as simple as gouges in the terrain. An epansive lake will provide your plant with water, a method to attack it which may not be expected and a reason to seperate it from your secure storage facility.

A river could, insidentally, provide a sneaky way to that facility in a similar way that the rivers from the map Fallen from PoEII does, but it should be sunk lower into the terrain so you can walk along it for miles without being obvious.

The bridge:
use a tarmac one, if it is for patrols the pass would just be driven around as it poses a potential ambushing hazard.

What I suggest:
Up the view distance, makes helis seem more real.
Lower all terrain if possible to make some slopes shallower.
Decide on your forest layout (preferably fractalish).
make denser forests in those areas.
Make a lake or two.
Make rivers to them.
Pick a prime location for the factory (and place it).
Pick an easy to defend location well above water table height and away from both the factory and all steep slopes for the storage facility (and place it).
Connect these, a potential village and the edge of the map with good roads.
Place dirt roads along the open areas where patrols are likely to go.
Check your forests are dense enough (do they feel real? Could you hide from choppers easily enough?).

[spacemanc]

Thanks jonny - as I said I just needed feedback on the terrain, vegetation and sky as that is all I had done on the upload. The various statics were just practice which were left around.

Thee vegetation on the upload is quite sparce so that I can build it up around the flags without getting lag. Ive started on the flags now and this has worked quite well, as Ive put bands of denser vegetation on the approaches and around the flag which giveas a good feeling of thick forest.

The sky will stay quite misty - the darkness for the heli pilot isnt a major concern - I want the atmosphere the mist gives to infantry in the forest which I think works well.

I dont want to open up the vallys too much as I want to funnel forces into areas due to it being a 4km map. Cover in these areas will be improved when the map is almost complete and I can check where lines of fire are etc. Ive considered playability and cover from the start, so open areas probably already have something planned for them.

Thanks for feedback jonny - I really appriciate it.

Since the upload Ive rebuilt the map from start, to make sure theres nothing left that I dont want. Ive also tweaked several other things and after 100 hrs + Im finally starting on the statics!
Heres a pic of the chemical plant Ive been working on tonight ( no light maps, or detail added yet ) :



Ill upload another file when Ive got the basic flags set out and major statics placed.

[Jonny]

What the hell is that supoposed to be?

You dont need cooling towers unless you have a decent supply of water and a proces which makes a lot of steam.

Seriously now:
What does the factory need in the form of raw materials?
what does it need in terms of structures?
place these, and places to store them.

I also suggest using some train tracks to move raw materials and stuff around the plant.

Forest:
Dont just increase the density around flags, increase it all over.

The one you show there is way way way to sparce ATM.

Valleys:
widen them. that will still funnel people along them to avoid being seen.

[spacemanc]

Originally Posted by Jonny

What the hell is that supoposed to be?

You dont need cooling towers unless you have a decent supply of water and a proces which makes a lot of steam.

Seriously now:
What does the factory need in the form of raw materials?
what does it need in terms of structures?
place these, and places to store them.

I also suggest using some train tracks to move raw materials and stuff around the plant.

Forest:
Dont just increase the density around flags, increase it all over.

The one you show there is way way way to sparce ATM.

Valleys:
widen them. that will still funnel people along them to avoid being seen.

lol - calm down! its a WIP !

The cooling towers have already gone - I cant find reference pics of a chemical weapons factory but I did find out they dont use any water in the processes so they went last night. Im already building a railway but its just over the ridge - this will be the plant admin and warehouse area.
I was going to build a "town" with accomodation, but the warehouses and railway are replacing this.

The valleys will stay narrow ( although I dont think theyre that narrow )- theres already masses of open space on the map, and I like flying helis in valleys! I think when the cover has been added, the valleys will be great for infantry battles.

Many of the suggestions you have already been tried, but dont work for various reasons, so compromises have to be made. For example I spent hours trying to build a industrial "communist" looking housing area, but theres just not enough suitable statics, and it couldnt be large so I just decided to scrap it.

[HughJass]

Make sure to listen to johnny, don't make this map look like your first by putting all models available to you in game.

anyway this map seems to be kinda what I am working on for the community mods. Good luck

ps, keep us updated with a minimap. If you want good feedback always give us a minimap.

[Jonny]

Have you seen the map Mass Destruction from SF? That has a nice chemical weapon plant mockup in there.

It is basically a huge warehouse with both offices and a few walkways and pressurised containers in there.

My suggestions for you would be to copy this, but with two warehouses next to each other having row after row of pressurised containers and walkways around and over them. Your offices could be built out of some other buildings in the vicinity. They would also, incidentally, be big enought to contain laboratories for testing raw mateirials and analyising the finished product and things at various stages. So you need big offices. Dont be tempted to throw in a few portable offices, its not a construction site here.

Outside of the actual plant you should have on or two relatively large containers, but not too large as you have already tried making the storage facility so I assume you will use it. Dont use any really really tall containers, or any really really big ones as they are not needed here, so are a waste of money. If you can find some that are smaller than the ones on Basrah/daqing and bigger than the ones at the main bases on Kashan then that would be perfect. Just one row next to one warehouse will finish it. Please dont use the tall ones, they are too obvious to anything passing over the area, like a satelite.

After that a low pipeline, two/three small pipes only, should be used to connect the factory with storage facility. For this you will also need one or two seperate pumping stations if there is a large height difference, and this should be the only place that the pipe comes out of the ground. They should be fenced off and guard towers posted. Perhaps the pipe could STILL be underground, and the pumping station sunken into the ground so you need to go down stairs to get to the pipes.

Also:
you are well aware of the fact that placed terrain look really dodgy compared to real terrain, you can tell it has been disturbed cant you?

Well I think you should make use of this and place false terrain statics over the burried pipeline. It will provide a great visual cue that the two facilities are infact operating together and also remove the need to put an overground pipeline between the two which would be very vulnerable to sabotage attacks.

[spacemanc]

Originally Posted by HughJass

Make sure to listen to johnny, don't make this map look like your first by putting all models available to you in game.

anyway this map seems to be kinda what I am working on for the community mods. Good luck

ps, keep us updated with a minimap. If you want good feedback always give us a minimap.

Yeah Im not using that many different statics. The chemical plant is the main flag on the map, so it will use alot of statics, but the other flags are much more low key. Ive nearly got all the basic statics down so Ill upload a file soon and you can see what I mean.

[spacemanc]

Sorry jonny - didnt see your post. This is one of the storage facilities. Its connected with a pipeline and the storage is in mounds of earth ( grass colour/undergrowth needs sorting )







Theres very few statics on this flag, but it looks good ( you can only see half on the picture.
At the chemical factory, Ive already toned down the storage tanks. The tall silos ( not the tallest ones, but still tall ) they will be detailed with pipework so they look like processing equipment rather than storage.

[Jonny]

What does it make? That storage could be an environmental hazard, and would be difficult if not impossible to seal any leaks should one occur.

If you are going with overground storage at the main site, which I think you should not do because you are piping the products away to more secure storage immediately, then it should probably be the same style as UK oil storage. This is in a container inside a concrete 'bath' which can hold 10% more than the actual container can. That would allow you to sink the containers a bit and would make mounds of earth around the whole thing believeable.

You could use the same idea but with a static roof from something, which would still be low but would then allow the storage tanks to be accessed for maintainence.

I like the wide open area around the whole thing, too, but make sure it extends beyond the fence so you cant sneak up on it.

[spacemanc]

Ive decided now that the map will be British v Chinese. Ive not flown the Merlin much in PR as its not on the maps I play, but it is the ferrari of transport helis and I love flying around my map in it! Also until the US Army faction comes out, theres no other faction with the correct camoflage.

The admin/warehouse/railway area is being scaled back to a very small group of buildings. The aim was to have a military feel to it with lots of rows of the same building, but in game it looks wank so Im not going to bother. The other reason is to keep the static count down as it was starting to get out of hand.