[Proposal] Chechnya Mini-Mod

[hypnotoad]

Chechnya was a depressing war, yes. But so was world war 2. Much, much more depressing. Chechnya
had 100, 000 civilians deaths. World war 2 had 41,815,400 civilians deaths. The main difference is that the magic of easily attainable video cameras, and the internet brings the war that much closer to you.

It's not fair to be biased when it comes to war. There are world war 2 games, which was a much worse war, and there are Iraq war games. A similar amount civilians have died in Iraq currently to the Chechen wars.

One could say all war games are in bad taste using your logic, and if that is the case, why are you playing PR?


On another note:

I guess I will start to learn how to make maps now. I have had some experience mapping for ARMA, so I can do some fancy stuff with height maps. Maybe I will replicate some of Grozny at some point. Not that I can guarantee it.

[AnRK]

Not to mention the few WWI games about, possibley one of the most, if not the most, brutal wars in human history. Although as far as I'm aware not too many civilans dies in comparison to things like Iraq, WW2 and Vietnam.

Don't really see the problem, ALL war is horrific on some level.

[STORM-Mama]

The Chechen War was a disaster. Instead of taking out rebel strongholds with advanced weapons the ruskies just lined up their arty and gruonded the whole city. Not to mention the horrible crimes commited by both sides (not to hard to find pictures/videos showing that on the net - search for Komsomolskoye massacre). The most depressing thing, though, is that you barely read anything about it in the newspapers. The Russian government have silenced the whole thing (that journalist Pilotkovskaja was murdered for writing to much about it).

I would like to fight the battle for Grozny (there have been many since the war started - the one that was fought on the new years eve of 94/95 is the most famous). Rebel ambushes from bombed out building on Russian vehicles.

This would require alot of work, though. Not only would we have to make alot of new building statics, finding someone that speaks chechen to make the recording (Chechen rebels wouldn't speak russian like the Militia does) will be kinda difficult, for example...

[hypnotoad]

Just a comparison picture:








The Russians did a very sloppy job in Chechnya, at least for the first half of the war.

As he said, basically they just turned the city into wreckage. Granted, there was a huge rebel resistance. maybe 1 in 10 people in Grozny is shooting at you. Even with all the artillery, there was a very large amount of Russian casualties throughout both wars (roughly 10, 000)

Then, later in the war Georgian Islamic Militants added to the rebel force, it was a pretty big war. I suppose the reason that it is not well known of, or that it is forgotten is because it pretty much ended when the Second Iraq War started. So it lost a lot of it's media attention.

[AnRK]

Yeah the siege of Grozny (New Years) was a bit of a disaster for Russia wasn't it? They took it in the end obviously, but they used loads of armour manned by conscripts that didn't really know what they were doing, and got badly ambushed by RPGs all over the city.

Very nasty with all the arty fire like Hypno and Mama said. I think only a few select battles would be worth doing for PR, might as well be done within the Russian project.

[hypnotoad]

The best method I can think of for it, would be to have the battles in Grozny, and there are more fires/burned out tanks/craters/bodies as the years go on, and each maps could be a different time of day. So basically:

Gronzy 95 (street fighting and lots of tanks) Start of the war, lots of civilians (maybe limit regular classes)

Grozny 96 (particularly bad, rebels have more tickets than usual, new years eve, so nighttime) that was when the Russians retreated from Grozny.

Grozny 99 (lots of arty fire) Apartment based RPG's on Russian armor assaults. This would create the scenes of the Russians firing at apartments.

Mass ambush on retreating Chechen Rebels (pretty dirty and shameful on the Russian part)

and then maybe one winter Caucasus map.



To replicate the confusion and disorganization for the Russians, you could make it so civilians could pick up weapons off dead soldiers.


Grozny is just big enough to keep the map from getting boring, but just small enough that it could probably be built in the BF2 engine, with a decent amount of destroyed building models, and then the less destroyed apartment blocks.

[AnRK]

Just wondering on this topic, is it codable to have random continuous arty fire? Obviously if you had it in a map you would restrict where it fired, but is it possible. Seem to remember a mod a while ago having such a thing, think it was DoD (none-source, stupid DoD:source ruined that game).

[Tannhauser]

There's just a small problem ; We need east european city buildings and all we have are the basic village houses, not the 10 to 20f high apartment buildings. We sure could ask OPK, but they don't have more than village-themed houses.

Also » about artilery, BF2 styled artillery combined with the PR GLTD spotting system would fit more, as JDAMs would be ridiculous and practicaly useless in such maps where most buildings would not be destroyable (Too much dynamics objects = no no)

[hypnotoad]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

There's just a small problem ; We need east european city buildings and all we have are the basic village houses, not the 10 to 20f high apartment buildings. We sure could ask OPK, but they don't have more than village-themed houses.

Also » about artilery, BF2 styled artillery combined with the PR GLTD spotting system would fit more, as JDAMs would be ridiculous and practicaly useless in such maps where most buildings would not be destroyable (Too much dynamics objects = no no)

I am not totally sure, but didn't ghost town for BF:SF have some Russian/East European buildings, or did they use middle eastern buildings?

[jayceon515]

In Ghost Town map they used same statics as in Karkand and all other ME vBf2 maps in combination with some new vBF2:SF statics which look pretty much ME. The map may feel different mainly because of the lightning settings but the I'm 100% sure about the statics.