Infantry combat too brutal

[Beee8190]

Originally Posted by Lanthan

The last thing I would like to see is to screw with the weapon accuracy. Weapons are accurate so if you have to go in this direction you have to work on the human variable. For sure if I'm prone and my pulse is low and breathing and everything is alright to take a shot and then the bullet does not hit what I'm aiming at just for some programmed randomness would piss me off.

Randomness sucks alright. As of weapon accuracy, they're as accurate as the soldier holding them so if that'd mean altering the accuracy of the weapon itself, that's fine with me.

Medics - first of all smoke cans needs to smoke a lot more.Yes you can throw like 10 of those but in huge intense battles you going to run out of em too pretty quick.

what I'd like to see is dedicate medevac chopper packed up with few medics, as chopper pilots are about as usless as armor on most maps.
What I mean is let dudes take a heli and be usefull,.If they can do medevac, great. Obviously if field dressings are removed (+1 i guess), medevac and medics would become rather crucial once again.

I personaly would not mind getting to base in medevac to fully heal up instead of adding tens of additional seconds on respawn but medevac choppers should propably be rather considered ROI (?), as not viable to shoot at those as they those remain neutral.

Result - tons of fun for those getting shot lol ( you'll get medevac and ride in chopper ahaha) and obviously dudes who like to pilot will get there fun share too, doing something pretty usefull for team.

Cheers n thoughts welcome

[Murphy]

Choppers aren't used because they are huge targets and getting into a combat zone will result in RPG/AA fire probably downing the medevac guys before they get to their revives. There is a reason people refrain from using assets, they are too easily dealt with. I could RPG a chopper like no ones business, and with AA it's even easier. I won't even touch on armor, and I'm one of the biggest prbf2 armor whores around.

Please stop using "you can't play for beans" as a quick response, it's not that we don't know arma 2 and it's not that we walk around without a medic . It's that the medic system is next to useless when you can dead - dead someone in initial contact, coupled with the fact that smoke isn't too effective as well as everyone being able to revive and you can see why many squads do not roll around with medics.

There are simply too many reasons "not to" do X and Y in the mod, and it comes down to balancing imo. I'm sure it's not going to happen over night, PRBF2 took years to find that perfect balance, but spouting about how "most people suck/are doing it wrong" needs to be avoided if this is to be a constructive thread.

[xatu miller]

Before you want to implement a medevac system you must have a built up system for medics on foot.

In fact choppers aren't useless. From my personal flying experience when the team is decently organized and cooperating i spend about 1/3 of time sitting at main. It is not that they are useless, it is just that people do not know how to use them to a advantage. We must remember the community is young and learning and a lot of stuff will change as new talented squad leaders and commanders appear.

[[R-DEV]wormeaten]

About medivac system we was having discussion in past and it is closed. There will be no medivac.

What is the point of medivac when people don't use basic medic how they will use medivac choppers or vehicle?

It will just create opposite effect and make it more brutal because now instead of killing just medik you will be able to kill medic, pilot and destroy chopper minimum.

This is PvP and you are limited with maximum 50 players. for medivac you have victim medic pilot/driver minimum this is 3 soldiers plus vehicle and without protection you have 0% of chance tu survive and make successful evacuation so you need minimum 4 people FT to securing small parameter. So this is 15% of whole army you got in full server. When you count all other logistic stuff and armor we will soon got in situation where on full 100 players server we will have 50% people don't fight at all they just playing with the toys.

Right now without medivac this is huge problem in game play when some people selfish playing with toys and have fun when rest of the 70% of players suffer in frustration because they miss this force on the battle front and leaving the game.

Such solution is in general more problem than solution.

Medevac is good in COOP where AI always waiting for you even when you made AI more agresive they don't think and they will not recognize it is medevac and good opportunity to easy kill some enemy where just one mediocre player with AT could kill them all and destroy Chopper with just one or two rockets.

[hiddengearz]

Originally Posted by mad rabbit

I always thought the animations cycle and can only be broken between cycles. However I don't have much experience with animations in ArmA2. This whole medic system debate is also discussed here: http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f442...dics-role.html

You are right about the Shilka and/or armour in general. I think a lot of this has to do with no-one wanting to crew with randoms and most servers rightfully having a min 2 people per armour rule. This 'distrust' for want of a better term in addition to the relative RPG/AT magnetism that most ArmA2 vehicles is very much a determent for some proper armour squads I believe.

It's a pity, as I'd love some armoured transport and thermal assisted fire support for my infantry squad at many a time.

I attempted this for about a week and a half on the rgg server just mesaging on side "anyone want to man a warrior/bradely" and maybe 1 out of 4 games I would get one person and we would alternate poitions of driver and gunner per warrior/bradely. The majority of the times it would be someone from RGG or someone who joined RGG. From my experience its rather anoying getting one shotted by a rpg but the only reason I kept doing it is because we would have 1-2 more warriors sitting at base unused so we would just jump back in the next one.

Also regarding the tank collumn in PR at the current state of Anti tank weapons you would probabally have a much better survival rate spreading out with very very far distances with a bradely. If someone RPGs the first bradely the rpg reload animation is quick enough to take out the second one before he even has time to find the target.

[mad rabbit]

Originally Posted by hiddengearz

Also regarding the tank collumn in PR at the current state of Anti tank weapons you would probabally have a much better survival rate spreading out with very very far distances with a bradely. If someone RPGs the first bradely the rpg reload animation is quick enough to take out the second one before he even has time to find the target.

This is somewhat the problem I have with ArmA2 and/or PR at the moment. Armour, if not all vehicles, are only beneficial as fast transport or very distant fire support. And this distant fire support is only beneficial if the associated optics can be zoomed and the rounds are HE i.e. vehicle mounted MGs have limited zoom/scope, which is realistic, but the also have no increased suppression effect due to heavy caliber rounds in comparison to infantry operated MGs.

Personally I avoid using them with the squads I lead as much as possible as the majority of the time they are 'death traps'. It would be nice if the Armoured Personal Carrier (APC) could indeed be relied upon to carry personal more safely than if we walked/ran. Even some of the offroads/jackals/trucks burst into flames too easily at the slightest bump.

I'm not sure if this vulnerability to Light AT/small rocks is realistic and certainly I agree with the devastation that a Javelin/Heavy AT should be able to cause. But for the sake of gameplay I wonder if it would be better to increase the durability of all vehicles in game or at the very least the armour?

---

This ties in with what I suggested earlier for increasing the introduced suppression effect for heavier caliber vehicle mounted MGs or static MGs, over infantry MGs/weapons. Currently mounting and operating these weapons is also a 'death trap' and offer no real tactical advantage. For example currently I would much rather have PK in my hand than a static MG or vehicle mounted MG, not only due to equivalent firepower/suppression but also in terms of concealment.

This last point of course does not apply to the APCs HE rounds with associated thermal and zoomable optics.

[[R-DEV]wormeaten]

Problem with armor is actually vanilla issue. Only what PR done on armor is number of players needed for armored vehicles.

Only thing I think shouldn't be a problem to tweak is zoom on armor guns it will be reducing zoom what will be reducing accuracy on larger distance also need to completely reducing zoom for self defense in urban area and cqb. This is simple solution what will effect on increasing efficiency of armored crew what will create armored vehicles more deadly but still vulnerable. AT will risk more and need coordination between more AT to be efficient.

Armored vehicles should spread fear among the infantry and need to be more better in self defense. I think this could bring some balance between AT and Armor and still will be depended on skills of the players on both sides.

[mad rabbit]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]wormeaten

Problem with armor is actually vanilla issue. Only what PR done on armor is number of players needed for armored vehicles.

Only thing I think shouldn't be a problem to tweak is zoom on armor guns it will be reducing zoom what will be reducing accuracy on larger distance also need to completely reducing zoom for self defense in urban area and cqb. This is simple solution what will effect on increasing efficiency of armored crew what will create armored vehicles more deadly but still vulnerable. AT will risk more and need coordination between more AT to be efficient.

Armored vehicles should spread fear among the infantry and need to be more better in self defense. I think this could bring some balance between AT and Armor and still will be depended on skills of the players on both sides.

Yep I didn't think you PR guys had messed with the vanilla ArmA2 settings for the armour/vehicles yet.

The future armour changes sound good wormeaten!

What's your thoughts on static MGs? Scopes? Zoom? More suppression effect if introduced? Something needs to be done to make these more lethal in my opinion.

[[R-DEV]wormeaten]

It's just how I'm thinking about nothing official yet but it shows we are thinking in similar way only we need to think to satisfied all sides.

I'm for policy that everyone have to enjoy in the game in same way no matter what roll you are playing.

In future we could change some config in weapons different than it is in vanilla but to be honest we don't have man power for do that right now in mod team. There is still lot of work to do.

I just mention this as example of relatively simple solution which will do allot on balance in gameplay.

You mention suppressing effect and rifles power. It is vanilla right now also ACE is even more accurate than vanilla what is normal because ACE is mostly designed for COOP and here you have to compensate too accurate AI but as I suggest it before on this issues should be tweaked on mod level but same problem with man power in team.

[TommyGunn]

It should be No respawn at all. Die (give up), automatic kick from server - wait for another round

Maybe not in public like this one above, but in wars, some events, definitely!

About ACE.. I was just playing it this night/morning, PvP... And about supressing, they were throwing nades, i was like WTFFF, STOP IT, MY EARS !