More realistic approach

[Swedge]

Originally Posted by Rashomon

There is this one fella [...] Although I don't agree with his views about "Speed is everything"

"If your side puts all its' effort into blind speed but doesn't actually focus on achieving the objectives, you will have streams of units sprinting to their deaths in storms of machine gun fire. Start your approach by focusing on the objectives and then backtrack from there as far as necessary. The objective is the key. Spawn networks and speed are the means that we use to achieve the objectives in the most effective way possible."
-- SWEDGE'S CHEEKY BASTARD STRATEGY GUIDE FOR PR:ARMA2 BETA

Cya in-game Rash mate.

Cheers,
Swedge

[[R-DEV]wormeaten]

I will answer on this in general according to all posts.

Realism. What do you consider as realism?

Here in PR almost everything have deep impact on realism based on human reaction. It is most realistic if could be based on human reaction.

Is this game is too fast yes if you rushing too much and dieing. No organized squad have much frequent dieing rate then organized one. When we have good organized squad sometime in whole round I don't die more than 3 or 4 times mostly is about 2 hour battle because we capture all flags in AAS for example. It is less dieing per min than I have in UO missions where most of the time you don't have respawn at all and you have just few minutes of action. I just mention UO because someone is comparing PR with UO what is complete nonsense it is two different concepts and PR servers are public players based so always someone new and not experienced players, on other hand UO is based on organized events and with this level of organization and trainings on PR servers it will be automatically more realistic than it is now without any change in the mod.

There can't be more realistic than it is now because is based on human reactions so you are the one who dictate realism here. When I have opportunity to play with Swadge on same side most of the time we create two separate squads and coordinating our movement and actions. We are not playing fast at all, no rushing but we always take initiative in defending and attacking objectives and than our squads move slowly but always forward like bulldozer pushing enemy back.

Also few days ago we was playing on opposite sides Take on mission. I was attacking side Swedge was defending side. We lost in the end but everyone in my squad was enjoying in that round. We was only squad who take one objective and practically we take it without casualties, only squad who almost capture second flag twice and who enter the zone in organized way as squad eliminating enemy presents in our way of movement. Like I say slowly but as bulldozer. Our K/D ratio was much above rest of our team and with little more help from rest of the team we will win this mission. There was some guys who try to do something but I guess they have bad luck with responding.

But that is like in real life. Better organized and trained units are always in advantage and those who are not trained have high death ratio in real life.

So what do you need more realistic? Level of realism here depend on you if you dieing too much don't do that you have to change something in your approach to not die. Nobody forcing you to rush. But your reaction should be fast. Fast doesn't mean faster moving or similar fast here means making decision fast, adopt to new situation fast, changing your strategy fast if situation requires and in the end predict your opponent moves fast to be ready in time. That is speed, speed of your reaction and strategic decisions not movement.

That is realism it is the same in real life you can't chose situation, you cant chose your enemy and his moves you have to adopt to the situation on the ground and turn it in your favor. So what could be more realistic than this.

[PaintScratcher]

Originally Posted by Swedge

Personally, I would really enjoy the opportunity to play a 'no-respawn' version of PR:Arma2 sometimes if such an option is feasible.

Sounds like a cool idea for an organised event. *Runs off to the drawing board*

[Roan]

Originally Posted by PaintScratcher

Sounds like a cool idea for an organised event. *Runs off to the drawing board*

Count me in
Maybe with no-respawn or a low ticket system at a ticket amount of 1,5 or 2 per player.

Id really love to play this COOP like missions now and then but i simply cba to shoot at the helpless, stupid AI.

[galzohar]

Obviously the current PR game modes will be absolutely 0 fun without respawn. For a no-respawn game mode you need to design the game from the start to fit with the no respawn spirit - Small zone to avoid time wasting (this actually applies to respawn game modes too, but it's not as important there) and a strict time limit after which one side loses, while giving that side some advantage to compensate.

An example is America's Army style missions, or A&D style mission with just 1 zone to capture/defend with quick cap times, defenders spawning inside the zone without vehicles while attackers spawn 1-1.5km away with some transport vehicles. In both cases 10-15 minutes is plenty when the attacking team isn't messing around and isn't boggled by a cumbersome logistics system.

[[R-DEV]wormeaten]

One of the main PR characteristic is to create long lasting and intense fire fight. it is not possible to create major scale battle even with 60 vs 60 players without respawn.

Such TvT event is only possible to play in organize way. it will be hard to make it for public servers.

No respawn missions will be suitable for public play only in smaller scale and in shorter time required.

One more crucial thing with it is on public level it will be possible that some camper stay alive and mission is will not be ended until he will be found or time expire so possible bulling of other dead players.

It is not impossible but much more harder public than on closed organized servers.

[Razorback_RUS]

Originally Posted by Bluedrake42

yeah I agree united operations is still better than PRArmA2 so far

People make the game!

[galzohar]

Camper is not a problem. First you have a time limit which is supposed to be keeping the game fun regardless of campers on the attacking team (that is, time will most often run out before people get bored). Second, if the camper is on the defending team, you either kill him while attacking the objective, or capture the objective without killing him, and in neither case do you have to wait for him to do anything.

As for organization and coordination, I don't think it requires any more organization and coordination than current PR (think logistics, minimum squad member requirement for various stuff, how quickly you can gain an advantage over the enemy team if you simply get organized 60 seconds faster than them, difficult to handle vehicle respawn system). The only real difference is, when you die in current PR, you get a second chance within (usually) 30-60 seconds plus travel time, while in a no-respawn game mode it'll be somewhere between round preparation time to round preparation time plus time limit. Plus travel time, of course, but that can be cut way down in game modes without respawns.

[Billy_Crook_Foot]

Just to chip in on the different game modes.

Remember the old "C+C - Command and Conquer" game mode for PR:BF2. It didn't get played much as a lot of players didn't understand how it worked.

Basically, there were no flags to capture. Each team could build 2 fobs. Team wins if it could destroy the other teams fobs but keep one or both of it's own operational. Can't remember if there was ticket bleed other than for players killed.

Intriguing idea, each team decided on were to build their FOBs - hide it, put it on a mountain top or whatever. Real need for squads to go on Recce to locate the enemy FOBS before developing an attack. Also required some squads to defend - this, and not understanding the game mode were probably the reason it wasn't as popular as it should have been.

As for limited respawns on FOBs, this is like turning them into great big Team Rally Points. Or if no respawn at all, FOBs are clearly not needed and we only use construction supplies and static weapon boxes.

Perhaps changing the pace of the game could be better achieved by adding weapon ballistics (guns too accurate, RPG spam etc), slightly increasing RP spawns or adjust based on squad size (may not be needed if accuracy goes down so medics might actually get a chance to help someone) and the aforementioned increase battle prep time.

I think all the levers are there to adjust the game play speed, we may just need to change a few (or all) in unison until gameplay speed evens out a bit.

[ServiceStud]

Uh. Just had an idea while reading Billy_Crook_Foot's thoughts on C+C.
Not directly related but:

What if Base respawns didn't cost tickets or only cost ? tickets? This would encourage more transportation, maybe even the use of APCs as APCs instead of just mobile gun carriages. Just a quick thought, feel free to dismantle.