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Old 10-13-2009, 06:56 PM   #41
CareBear

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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

seethed waters in 8x8km as its mostly water, if you did that, say to kashan the ground would look horrible.

also recently iv been doing acting as forward air controller as im fed up of lack of people that know how to call in air power, so been doing it myself, and its worked damb good!


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Old 10-13-2009, 07:03 PM   #42
=HCM= Shwedor

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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

I would think removing the AA rockets from helos would help gameplay, and maybe having kashan with both attack helos and jets (two jets and one attack helo per team, as not to be a totally air centered map). Increase the range at which lases are aquired to about 1600m with a slight 500m increase in view range. Increasing the map size would be annoying for the infantry and tankers, people would tire of walking and quit playing PR.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:06 PM   #43
Alex6714

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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

Quote:
Originally Posted by =HCM= Shwedor View Post
I would think removing the AA rockets from helos would help gameplay, and maybe having kashan with both attack helos and jets (two jets and one attack helo per team, as not to be a totally air centered map). Increase the range at which lases are aquired to about 1600m with a slight 500m increase in view range. Increasing the map size would be annoying for the infantry and tankers, people would tire of walking and quit playing PR.
Removing AA would be a bad idea, because then it would just turn into a hydra/cannon dogfight. Helicopters that have AA capability in real life should have it in game.

Edit: Misread. In any case, mapsize isn´t a problem if you use transport. On top of that, big maps imo are designed with large scale vehicle combat in mind. I don´t know why you are walking everywhere on a big map.

But jets on a map with helis is a very bad idea from experience, especially 2 fighters + 1 heli, thats just kashan 64 again without the CAS.

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Old 10-13-2009, 07:18 PM   #44
Rissien
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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

Shwedor having attack helis on jet maps is suicide. The Big Game Battles we proved that enough. I was just flying around Bunkers and happened to see a Havok, locked and fired just before passing by and killed it. Ddnt take more than a second and he had no way of defending himself. However Huntr you cannot base their performance against tanks for that match on their potential. If you recall the match was for Armor and Air assets ONLY. We had no infantry, nothing reporting contacts to those choppers. Instead they had to fly around and visually look for tanks which did prove suicidal. For jets it is easier as they fly by faster than a tank could track. (Yes normal amtches there would be AA therefor making such runs very risky)


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Old 10-13-2009, 08:16 PM   #45
Hunt3r
Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

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Originally Posted by AaronFraher View Post
Is kashan 8x8 km? No. You cant just say "Well this could happen". The fact is kashan is a 4KM map and is limited as such. Seethed waters is 8x8? Good for them, still doesn't make kashan any bigger than it is now.
I was talking about the limitations of the engine.

Anyhow anything to help the aircraft be more realistic in it's capabilities would be nice.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:35 PM   #46
Hitman.2.5
Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
Then again I don't recall the US Army losing Apaches to enemy fire every 3 hours.
the 2003 invasion of Iraq the US lost 8 Apaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
Spotters are a stupid idea. Suppose we use spotters to spot SAM sites being destroyed. That's an incredibly dangerous idea. Artillery has a few km range. JSOWs and HARMs have ranges on the order of 50-70 nautical miles. This basically means sending spotters deep into enemy lines to try and observe a radar station being destroyed.

While HARM's AND JSOW's are employed in RL the PR maps are just too small for these "wild weasel" systems.

Spotters are not Stupid as you said they are but an important asset to the team and to any CAS squad it is just Good practice and pure COMMON SENSE(some thing you seem to have little of...)

Just to let you know: Artillery can have ranges up to 24-36 km and 50Km with special shells which have a rocket motor attached to give the shell some range.

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
A-10s are meant to operate in air superiority. That's a fact that is undeniable, and applies to all CAS aircraft.
WOW (My opinion of you is now positive) This is the very reason they are teamed with fighters on maps like kashan...

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
The SOFLAM idea is great and all, but to be honest, it doesn't work at all. Expecting someone to repeatedly lase over and over for the aircraft so they can use precision weapons is kind of stupid for pub games. In clan wars it's acceptable because it's a clan, but in pubs you might get someone to lase once, and that's the end of it.
So Wrong it works perfectly you your self said its great... and yes some players are as it would seem DUMB and do not know how to play properly...

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
And trust me when I say this, chaff and ECM wreaks havoc on enemy aircraft radar. DIRCM works extremely well against most IR based (Sidewinder, Stinger, Grail, etc.) missiles.
Agreed. This could be improved especially if you could tell you were been locked on 2 seconds before and not after the missile has been launched(or something to give you a chance) and a rise in the amount of flares would also be nice


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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
AA is another thing that I have a problem with. In this game AA is so utterly useless against jets, with them flying so fast and always out of sight, what's the point? Might as well engage ground targets.
sorry I have to disagree, I have shot down jets on numerous occasions with the FOB AA and MANPADs

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Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
A-10s are obviously fine at giving support at infantry, but they're obviously not at killing tanks.
Have you used it properly? I mean seriously the thing is a pure breed for killing tanks and fulfills it role as a TANK KILLER The cannon alone annihilates a tank and the Anti-shipping missiles (the AGM-65 maverick) will pummel the tank into its shallow sandy grave... you my man have had very bad experiences, Try playing on a mumble server or a server which as admins which generally have decent players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
Oh, and:

If you can honestly say that you've taken a direct hit from AA missiles then you must be in the wrong game. AA missiles kill in a single hit.

It's understandable to be able to survive indirect hits from AA, but a direct hit is certain death. I'd also like to know if you managed to kill something with every hellfire used.
Now here I agree with you if you get hit directly you are more than likely to go down no doubt about it.

You are very enthusiastic about the realism of jet and chopper operation, but if you want actual realism you need to play a combat Sim not a realism mod built on a half arsed engine this cannot be helped. Once you understand what is possible and what isn't you can appreciate the mod and the time that the Dev's do for us I mean its FREE and i do agree that the aircraft need some TLC and not just gotten rid of.

Sorry if any of this comes across offensive :S

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Last edited by Hitman.2.5; 10-13-2009 at 08:43 PM..
Old 10-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #47
Kruder

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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

First,its not a how awesome i am post;

Well somebody wrote something telling that jets are not useful on Kashan,well 2 nights ago killed 2 AAVs, half a squad of inf,a single sniper,1 tank and 1 APC with mig-29 in 90 minutes,and MEC team won the match with only 30 tickets difference.

And to your surprise none of those kills had anything to do with my skill(though killed 3 jets,,but they dont have to do with skill either,other f16 kill with the canons hehe) .I killed them because i had a dedicated spotter SL,with whom i've played for the 1st time.He kept laughing sadistically when i blew shit up though , maybe he wasnt doing it only for the team

Hope that gives u a hint about the jets and their usefullness.

Attack choppers on the other hand,well i played probably around 10-20 rounds of kashan 32 and never ever seen them being effective...

They are not effective on Muttrah either,only 1 out of 10 pub cobras manage to do something useful.

Attack hueys and littlebirds are a different stroy though,they are very useful.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:50 PM   #48
Hunt3r
Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

Anyhow, something like this would be ideal for the attack helos:

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Old 10-14-2009, 10:20 PM   #49
Hoboknighter
Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

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Originally Posted by Kruder View Post

Attack hueys and littlebirds are a different stroy though,they are very useful.
That statements a good question.
Why is that? Why are the attack hueys and attack LB's more usefull, despite the Cobra/Apache being the shiz-nit with both the cannon and an extra 20some rockets?
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:06 AM   #50
Outlawz7
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Default Re: Strategic Relevance of attack aircraft on kashan/qinling

Well looking at how people fly Hueys, they're "more useful" because they don't get shot down during strafing runs since they come in fast, fire all missiles and leave whereas attack helis always hover and get blown by AA.
The LB is more useful, because it's small and very agile, which is perfect for city maps and though it doesn't normally stand a chance in Kashan, flying around at 1500m hunting down attack helis or just flying really high with a spotter in the second seat looking down with FLIR and reporting contacts.

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