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Old 10-13-2009, 07:51 AM   #41

Roguehellhound's Avatar
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Originally Posted by Dr2B Rudd View Post
its a powerful asset, and it should be a powerful asset, but I agree, 4/5 people per squad should be the re-requisite.

iirc the m240 is a platoon level weapon, not squad level?
depends, my unit, 2x M240's per platoon. But you can attach it to a squad. we only have 2 squad per platoon though.

Yes the gun teams are considered platoon level, but you can attach them per squad.
it all depends on the mission.
sometimes you can have all the gun teams together to be support by fire with the assault element out and about.
That would make since for the 240's be limited requestable, like 3-4? per team.

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Old 10-13-2009, 08:59 AM   #42

HellDuke's Avatar
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Originally Posted by Roguehellhound View Post
thats because he is leaning all his weight into it.
My point is, that a weapon fired DOES NOT give UPWARD motion. If you fire along the x axis then the only force will be along the -x and will only be projected upwards or otherwise by any obstruction to the force moving along -x thus the SAW moving skyward on auto-fire is not really what happens. It IS possible if you make adjustments so it WOULD, but I don't think that you want that when you fire off an automatic weapon now do you?

As for your suggestion... Isn't it going to be like that in 0.9 already? I think I've read that it was going to be one request for iron sights and another for optics, both taking the same slot in the squad.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:06 PM   #43
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

This is my post from another machineguns thrad, but i feel it still applyes here, or atleast gives another view. If you have questions feel free to ask.

A machinegun is the ultimate hand-held anti-personal weapon. A mg irl is good at ranges up to 700-800 meters. Ordinary riflemen often don't receive training on to hit a target above 500 meters and often not above 300 meters while almost every mg gunner gets trained to shoot at 800 meters and that's with iron sights! The few things an assault rifle is better at is logistical not using so much ammunition and still can be semi effective compared to a machinegun and having a much cheaper weapon then a machinegun (often an assault rifle is 10 times cheaper then a machinegun) and have a easier time to deploy handgrenades. One of the strength of a an assault rifle is to get the first shot of if you have contact with an enemy, it is easier to have the a rifle sighted and get the first shot of, but in turn machinegun can fire unsighted and guide the weapon by the dust that the bullets create in the ground, and thus can assault while having the weapon in the weapon sling over his shoulder and just aim by the bullets dust, thus no need to bring up the weapons. And in cqc the same applies, a weapons sling makes an mg very assault friendly.

That is the reason why many nation armies don't have pure riflemen. In a Swedish mechanised infantry rifle squad of 6-7 people we have 2 mg gunners (M240 and they don't have a loader soldier, both of them operate their individual weapon solo) , 1 two man grenaderifle team (Carl Gustaf m48 ) with assault rifles and 2 squad leaders with an assault rifle (AK5 (Swedish version of FN FNC80)) and both of them carry a AT4 and then we may have an extra soldier with an assault rifle and a AT4. No pure riflemens.

In my national service we often prioritised to rearm the M240 before our own automatic carbines in the fire pauses when we were in the CV9040, we had the german 50 round Dm1 belts for the M240 so we had to reload the belts with indivudal rounds. Also in combat and assaults we often only gave covering fire with our automatic carbines when the machinegun had to reload and otherwise saved ammo and shooted sparsly, it made no real diffrenece anyway when you have two 7.62mm machineguns on 6 people.

So in short machineguns are almost always better then an assault rifle and thus modern armies don't field pure riflemens, a riflemen almost all the time have a secondary function, radio, AT4, mine carrier, explosive carrier, being a squad leader, being marksman or something.

Also a thing that hampers western infantry is that they often lack a high explosive anti-personal weapon to use at ranges, Swedish infantry have grenaderifles at range to deliver HE/AT/Smoke/Illuminate rounds on squad level or worse platoon level. And riflegrenades are widespread in the world even that we don't hear about it so much, France and Israel uses these weapon system a great deal. It really suprises me that you don't give militants riflegrenandes for the grenadier kit? It would be far more realistic.

Also in the light if what i have written i would like to see conventional armies riflemen be swapped for riflemen AT class. And milita get a few riflegreande to their riflemen and lots of riflegrenade for their grenadier class or something along these lines.
Sirex[SWE][MoW] is offline
Last edited by Sirex[SWE][MoW]; 10-16-2009 at 02:33 AM..
Old 10-16-2009, 01:37 AM   #44

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Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Originally Posted by Dr2B Rudd View Post
its a powerful asset, and it should be a powerful asset, but I agree, 4/5 people per squad should be the re-requisite.

iirc the m240 is a platoon level weapon, not squad level?
-240's typically rule on the platoon level of things. But if I recall, the -240 is classified as a "Medium Machine Gun." Not an LMG. Idk.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:32 AM   #45
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Originally Posted by DankE_SPB View Post
in russian PRL we made a config, so it allows only 1 LMG per team unless there are 10 or 12 players
That makes a lot of sense really, on public servers there isn't too much of a problem with LMGs but in skirmish matches especially it's a big worry. As mentioned before squads of 3 with Officer/Medic/LMG are all you need to take on other inf. With the rifleman's ammo being so little that hardly makes any difference, and as a kit it's almost invisible these days - people take AAs, LATs or Crewmen instead.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:26 AM   #46
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Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Just so there's clarification. The FN MAG (known as GPMG to Brits, M240 to yanks, C6 to cannucks, MAG to israelies etcetcetc) is classed as a General Purpose Machine Gun or Medium Machine Gun.

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Old 10-16-2009, 12:30 PM   #47
Supporting Member
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Yes they are powerful but they take so long to deploy which means it has to be used intelligently as a support or overwatch weapon.
Old 10-17-2009, 06:00 PM   #48
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

i dont know what it is but something doesnt feel right about the lmg
the supression effects do not matter for the mg - the gunner will just spray away to supress the enemy scoped rifle man untill he has pin point accuracy (no matter if the scoped one spotted the mg first. if he doesnt do a head shot he can pack his bag) - i think the one that did not see the enemy should be the one seeking cover
also funny is the loading message where it sais you should use 3-5 round bursts with the mg ... thats does not apply anymore - at least for .87 - imho

raising the sight should be longer in deployed mode compared to undeployed mode (one is bringing the gun up to the eye (should take longer), the other just getting it fixed in the hip)

also switching modes animation should be swap too - when changing to deployed it should be longer - i would actually suggest having the bolt action animation at deployed mode and not when you are trying to prepare the gun for cqb

i'd also like to see more bullet spread (less accuracy, i am not really a fan of the zoom)
to have it still be a fearsome weapon maybe increase the bullets supression effect radius (but i might say thats not really needed)

my 2 cents

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Old 10-17-2009, 06:48 PM   #49

Roguehellhound's Avatar
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

heres a video i was looking for.. idk what happened, noob moment for me?

[XFIRE]<object width="405" height="344"><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="405" height="344" flashvars="videoid=1680fe"></embed></object>[/XFIRE] (is the direct link to the video)


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Old 10-18-2009, 08:56 AM   #50

HellDuke's Avatar
Default Re: LMG's too powerful.

Well? What's wrong in that video? Everything seemed fine to me...

Besides, are you insane to keep shooting at an LMG if you miss? That's what I do when I see one: shoot+hit=woopty doo let's move on. Shoot+miss=let's get the hell out of here.

I recon that if you see him first and miss giving your position away at the same time and not falling back... You deserve to be shot just for going rambo style... Have you ever SEEN a SAW in action? Did you see at what ranges the SAW gunner hits his target with IRON SIGHTS??? They can engage targets at distances greater then the rifleman. Rifleman engages at what.... Up to 600m? Saw can go up to 800 as far as I've heard.

Stop complaining. You are not a real soldier. If you were you'd have no problems with taking a saw down. Or if you were any good you wouldn't have problems either. It's the bad players and the mediocre (sorry if my spelling is wrong) players that get shot easily.
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lmg, powerful
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