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Old 09-29-2009, 11:22 AM   #61
Marshall

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

I myself have no problem with the PR deviation system. I even made a video to explain it to new players. I know why it's there and how to work it and how this is designed to encourage fire and maneuver tactics (tactical realism).

I would have (and have if you see my youtube video comments) defended PR deviation to the last as I thought this was the best way of encouraging tactical realism for infantry squads.

However, since I (recently) got into combine arms, I actually think combined arms infantry gameplay is more tactically realistic, I'm not saying anything bad about the way the PR DEVs have done the deviation here. Though I have changed my mind and I personally prefer how they've done it in CA.


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Old 09-29-2009, 11:58 AM   #62
TheLean
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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

^^ But doesnt CA have a more matured crowd than PR, I mean most people that know about CA have played PR for a long time before? It must be like playing PR on a locked server with good players. I have to try CA first though before I give my judgement, this was just something I though about.

Personally I dont see the problem with PR deviation. Ok, maybe for really close enqounters <50 meters the aim is a bit too wacky but on long range it is fine. Stress, fatigue, fear of death and other factors are something that real soldiers face in combat that is of no concern on the firing range. Putting all that gear on you and then running around for hours while trying to preserve concentration does bad thing to your aim. Another thing not mentioned is that changing stance in PR is way quicker than in real life as is moving which ignores all physical laws known to man, such as momentum. Im talking about that you can rotate your body in the blink of an eye and run forwards at 20 mph and stop instantly as if we hit an invisible wall. With all these factors, we should be glad that we got so good accuracy as we do after 5 seconds. Try to sleep for 3 hours the night before, then put 20 kg of gear on you, jog for 10 minutes, then sprint 20 mph and then instantly stop and throw yourself to the ground and try to hit someone at 200 meters within the second as some of you think is realistic. IRL I would be suprised if you had time to get your gun up in 5 seconds.

Also, remember that distance in PR is scaled down due to engine limitations such as draw distance. 200 meters ingame is not really the same as 200 meters IRL but more.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:22 PM   #63
gazzthompson

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
Actually, if you're moving around even the slightest, your chance of hitting someone is quite low. Especially within the first three shots.

Seems off.
yes at long range, but im room to room combat (what im talking about) this isnt true.


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Old 09-29-2009, 02:29 PM   #64
Alex6714

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

The problem with the deviation is no so much the wait time and randomness but the fact that you can´t feel the weapon, see where its (really) pointing and know when to shoot.

This is why I disagree with a high deviation as such because in some ways it may be realistic, in some not, but if you cant implement the above factors, it just makes it unintuative and frustrating.

You also don´t want lazorz, but its perfectly possible to get a good balance imo.

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Old 09-29-2009, 04:31 PM   #65
Warpig-
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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

I'm starting to agree. I'm used to the deviation now of course, and I do agree I don't want weapons that are deadly accurate (the bf2 engine can't accurately replicate drop and wind etc). But it's still more than frustraiting when you still manage to completely miss people at near point blank because of a system that was meant to effect long range accuracy


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Old 09-29-2009, 06:03 PM   #66
StuTika
Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

The moment for me came in 0.8 when I was on Barracuda stood 6 feet from this US guy. We were both stood up, sighted in and firing on semi at each other. For more than 5 seconds neither of us hit the other. Eventually the other guy got lucky and I died. But after that, CA was like a dream come true .

Although, to be fair, the deviation in 0.85 onwards is a lot better, well done to the DEVs for fixing it. It's still a bit inaccurate but I don't mind most of the time.

Stu.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:56 PM   #67
McBumLuv

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Someone should look at whether the barrel can be moved from the center of the screen, as Johnny had said is possible, and after that is whether or not the barrel can be linked to the animation, or at least made to move at all (which an animation can then follow).

Then deviation no longer is a problem, because it no longer needs to be included at all (with ballistics and zeroing added on top of that).


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Old 09-29-2009, 11:08 PM   #68
Wags

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Default Re: Deviance Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Gaz View Post
This is exactly what the suppression effect is meant to be for. Trust me, returning accurate fire is far harder than it looks under effective enemy fire.

Don't get seen. If you get ambushed or receive fire first, it's very difficult to regain any kind of upper hand. It's no different in PR.
I personally wouldn't know in real-life, but in paintball it's very easy. Actually, I've got my reflex shooting so good to where I can spin 180 degrees, engage a target, and hit it with each shot, all within 5 seconds that it would take me to get one accurate shot off in PR.

When supressed (in paintball), and I'm asked to supress the enemy, I simply lean outside of cover, shoot back, and either supress or eliminate the opfor. Again, I can do this within 5 seconds.

I could understand it would be hard if...you had a whole enemy platoon shooting at you or something. Then you just simply wouldn't be able to shoot back.

Some of the deviations are VERY unrealistic. After many observations, I concluded that in PR I was shooting some shots that the bullet would have to travel at a 45 degree angle out of the barrel to hit where it hit. (IE: Aiming at Target X, only to see your rounds hitting 20 feet away from Target X )

I mean, its all variable, but it should not ever take me 5 seconds to aim at a target. Ever.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:20 AM   #69
gazzthompson

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Default Re: Deviance Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tophatter94 View Post

When supressed (in paintball), and I'm asked to supress the enemy, I simply lean outside of cover, shoot back, and either supress or eliminate the opfor. Again, I can do this within 5 seconds.

I could understand it would be hard if...you had a whole enemy platoon shooting at you or something. Then you just simply wouldn't be able to shoot back.

Some of the deviations are VERY unrealistic. After many observations, I concluded that in PR I was shooting some shots that the bullet would have to travel at a 45 degree angle out of the barrel to hit where it hit. (IE: Aiming at Target X, only to see your rounds hitting 20 feet away from Target X )

I mean, its all variable, but it should not ever take me 5 seconds to aim at a target. Ever.
[R-DEV]Gaz's comments where bases on real life experiences, if a paintball comes wizzing over your head u'll think... that might hurt abit, if your hear the crack of a 7.62, well....you will act ALOT different.

Quote:
When supressed (in paintball), and I'm asked to supress the enemy, I simply lean outside of cover, shoot back, and either supress or eliminate the opfor. Again, I can do this within 5 seconds.
the enemy is what, 20m away max ? not 100m + . a paintball hits you in the mask and your out. a 7.62 will take half your face off. i to have been paintballing and airsofting ALOT but even without being in a combat zone i can tell that they are different in every way possible.

Quote:
I mean, its all variable, but it should not ever take me 5 seconds to aim at a target. Ever.
have you ever fired a real rifle? even on range conditions?


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Last edited by gazzthompson; 09-30-2009 at 01:25 PM..
Old 09-30-2009, 11:42 AM   #70
bosco_
Retired PR Developer
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Default Re: Deviance Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tophatter94 View Post
I personally wouldn't know in real-life, but in paintball it's very easy. Actually, I've got my reflex shooting so good to where I can spin 180 degrees, engage a target, and hit it with each shot, all within 5 seconds that it would take me to get one accurate shot off in PR.

When supressed (in paintball), and I'm asked to supress the enemy, I simply lean outside of cover, shoot back, and either supress or eliminate the opfor. Again, I can do this within 5 seconds.

Must...not...facepalm
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