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Old 09-27-2009, 12:02 AM   #51
gazzthompson

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

you dont, the 5 second wait is for further away targets, the closer the shorter time.

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Old 09-27-2009, 07:55 AM   #52
Rissien
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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by TmanEd View Post
I think it needs to be made smaller. If I can't sight in and hit someone who's a few meters away, then there's something wrong. I shouldn't have to aim for 5 seconds to hit someone who's only a short distance away.
You should of seen the Deviation in .8


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Old 09-27-2009, 08:27 PM   #53
TmanEd
Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzthompson View Post
you dont, the 5 second wait is for further away targets, the closer the shorter time.
I may not have to wait five seconds, but at that distance, I shouldn't have to wait at all. The "it takes time to aim" stuff doesn't really apply when someone's just across the room. I can understand having to aim for a while at stuff that's farther away, but under 50-25m, there shouldn't be a (substantial) aiming time.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:00 PM   #54
gazzthompson

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

if some one is across the room , like irl, u dont have to wait.

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Old 09-27-2009, 09:34 PM   #55
Hunt3r
Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzthompson View Post
if some one is across the room , like irl, u dont have to wait.
Actually, if you're moving around even the slightest, your chance of hitting someone is quite low. Especially within the first three shots.

Seems off.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:33 PM   #56
Jaymz
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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Just thought I'd chime in here and give some facts.

Deviation of Assault Rifles, Battle Rifles and Carbines in Project Reality

Hit Capability and its relativity to settle time after moving (WASD). Basically, this is how far your bullet will deviate from exactly where you aim (while sighted in) depending on how long you have settled after being on the move.

Standing @ 200m

0 Seconds : 5.2m
1 Seconds : 4.3m
2 Seconds : 3.3m
3 Seconds : 2.4m
4 Seconds : 1.5m
5 Seconds : 0.52m


Crouching @ 200m

0 Seconds : 3.4m
1 Seconds : 2.7m
2 Seconds : 2.2m
3 Seconds : 1.6m
4 Seconds : 0.9m
5 Seconds : 0.35m



Prone @ 200m

0 Seconds : 3.1m
1 Seconds : 2.6m
2 Seconds : 2.0m
3 Seconds : 1.4m
4 Seconds : 0.9m
5 Seconds : 0.31m

Firing Deviation

Upon firing, an immediate follow up shot will have a large deviation increase (over one meter @ 200m). Another immediate follow up shot will result in a two meter deviation radius from your point of aim. Firing constantly like this is useful is circumstances such as CQB and/or medium range suppression. For longer ranges, or for instances where accuracy is desired, pacing your shots with one second or more intervals is preferable.

"Clear the battlefield and let me see, All the profit from our victory." - Greg Lake
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:46 AM   #57
Kim Jong ill

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

This should probably be in the suggestions forum, but is it possible to have a quicker settle time and less deviation for rifles equipped with bipods whilst the user is prone? And perhaps the opposite when the user is crouching and standing to represent the change in balance?
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:20 AM   #58
Marshall

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

The DEVs made this deviation system (presumably) to encourage tactical realism more than anything. Perhaps the weapons and deviation don't feel realistic to some people but in the effort to make it tactically realistic it works.

If you recieve fire first then the enemy has the upper hand and in order to prevail you must use fire and maneuver tactics, tactics which are the staple of all modernised armies today.

However, the minimod "Combined Arms" which is a mod for a mod, (A mod for PR) addresses infantry gameplay (amongst other things) very differently. The deviation here is very low (as far as I can tell only recoil affects it) sprint has been removed and players have the option of using what I call the "CQB" scope, same scope but zoomed out.

What this means is you will (most of the time) hit what you're aiming at, you can fire effectively on the move and CQB engagements feel more realistic. This might sound like a run and gun affair to you, like CS. Trust me, it's not.

In CA players are actually much more cautious than in PR, checking every corner and being very careful when crossing open ground. Moving with rifle sighted in can be done in long range scope or short range scope (This simulates the soldier keeping his other eye open). Movement (as in PR) in scoped mode is slow, but in CQB mode makes it perfect for pieing off coners. Bullets seem to do more damage, a well placed shot will put a guy down, and if it doesn't then he is frantically trying to escape from you rather than face you down.

Squads use tactics more realistically in CA, even without training tactics with each other.
They will clear rooms carefully, methodically, watching each others backs. They will take turn s covering and moving (leapfrogging) and will cover each other when crossing open areas.

Hitting a guy on the move is easier as deviation is low and in CA there is no sprint. So all in all. People do not wantto get shot and teamwork and tactical realism is increased as a result.

If you cannot get along with the PR infantry gameplay I recommend that you try Combined Arms out, the mod has some bugs but as far as infantry gameplay goes, I think this is what you are looking for. It's only a (roughly) 500mb download.

My sig has a link to the CA forums.


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Old 09-29-2009, 10:46 AM   #59
deemoowoor

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Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Guys, go to a firing range and try to shoot a 5.56x45 NATO chambered semi-automatic rifle or anything remotely similar. Try hitting a torso target into the "8" circle (i.e. 3 bull's eye radiuses) from 100 m by firing 5 rounds from a prone position. If you're good enough at shooting IRL, you'll probably have at least 3 bullets in that circle.

Now do that again, but now for every round fired you first stand up still with your rifle ready (i.e. in a normal tactical "ready" position), start the timer, go prone and shoot the target with one shot as quickly as possible, with another person taking the time it took you to make that shot. Get the average time for 5 shots made this way. Now check your results.

Now do something similar with crouch and standing positions.

I'm pretty sure, that getting to crouching position, aiming and taking an effective shot will take you at least 5 seconds, unless you're a practical shooting expert. To actually hit the 8 circle, you would have to be either very lucky, or very slow. In crouch position you will probably be quicker, but also miss even more. It's going to take a little less time with standing position, but your accuracy will suffer a lot (you will hit the same target at 50 m from standing position if you aim well).

So 5 second aiming time is actually quite realistic. It's very easy to aim your crosshair with a mouse, but not always so easy, when you're holding an actual rifle and the target is *really* 100-150 m away from you.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:36 AM   #60
Truism
Default Re: Deviation Issues and firefights

Deemoorwoor, have you ever done military shooting?

In my home country there's a marksmanship test where you move between firing positions and engage targets with deliberate, rapid and snap fire at ranges between 100 and 300 meters. And the levels of accuracy you describe are atrocious. At 100 meters you should be able to engage in <=1 second while changing positions and hit more than 60% at a bare minimum.

5 seconds is a very, very long time on the range, and marksmanship is much, much easier on the range than in PR. In combat, perhaps not because of stress factors, but in a controlled environment nearly untrained soldiers can outshoot PR avatars.
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