Who wants to command? Anyone?

[Ace42]

Having played publics all day, and had several forays earlier in the week, I can safely say that the only people who want to command are new players who are in for a swift disappointment; which is why that there's hardly ever a commander on.

I got totally fed up of the lack of commander, so decided to man-up and do my duty. What a mistake that was... Where the hell is the gameplay?!? Great, I get to spectate my team moving around, on the rare occasions they actually see a contact I merely "approve" it for a mark to go down, and chances are they take out the contact within seconds anyway, or else the contact moves and the mark is not just redundant but misleading too. A relatively pointless job, if squad leaders could just put their own contact markers down, it would be completely redundant.

I spend most of my time being a secretary, relaying voice messages to other squad leaders - totally redundant if the players are using Teamspeak, which most clans offer anyway on their servers, not counting the fact that the other squad leaders can simply type out requests anyway...

On the rare occasions someone wants orders as to what to do, it's going to be either "defend / attack the cache" or "Defend / attack the current flags" - it's not exactly brain surgery, with AAS, it's not like you have a wealth of targets to go for, it's pretty cut and dry. If the players are competent enough to actually listen to and carry out my orders, they certainly are smart enough not to need to be told what is required of them...

Commanders aren't even needed to build assets... Added to this, I'm locked away in a little office where I can't even pop off a few rounds to entertain myself.

I can't imagine a less entertaining experience... Basically, it's like working on the radio in a taxi-cab office. You've got the map, you track the pins on it, you handle the radio to keep everything moving. But you don't get paid for it!

Your job is just to stamp "yes" on squad requests, and handle the phones... BORING! You can't actually DO anything! It's become a massively passive experience, you just doodle on the map and naively hope it's not totally ignored.

This is before you consider the added issues of "sloppy squads" - IE infantry in a transport / APC squad who are lone-wolfing because they are impossible to co-ordinate without a squad leader dropping rallies to keep the squad cohesive etc; as well as the unassigned lone-wolfers, people who jump the queue and get straight into a transport vehicle ignoring the fact that there's a dedicated squad trying to man it and co-ordinate. Or squads with inept leaders who run straight for uncappable flags, or don't have microphones, or don't speak English and are completely intelligible over the microphones.

BF2 is an action game, we all bought it for action, and as much as PR wants to move towards "reality", that doesn't mean we want a biscuit-dunking tea drinking simulator... Unless there is something commanders can actually DO in real time, rather than just having to sit back and watch squads mess about, you can expect the commander's chair to remain empty.

[Michael_Denmark]

Frustrations, yes, been there done that my self.

The CO function and the mainstream culture in the PR community needs a serious overhaul and have needed such for a long time too. Sadly not because the function as programmed in the game has any real faults embedded, but the opportunistic culture within the community producing more and more of the same player types as well has been and still is causing problems downing the development of useful CO-players.

I'm writing on a text about the PR CO these days and will after the completion of that consider if there's anything beside that I can contribute with to the PR community.

I suggest that you consider to join the tournament as it present day still is the only place in the community where you will experience how PR with commanders is executed.

[Spacepiston]

Most of the CO complaints came with .8 and fell on deaf ears. CO positions were empty 95% of the time the entire time .8 was out which nobody can deny. The previous argument was that "dedicated commanders would emerge as people learned the new aspects of the role" (or something along those lines).

What we observed was completely opposite of course. The only communication between squads during .8 came over the team channel. On the positive side the CO is no longer necessary to build assets since .8 and that helps move along game play.

In .75 the commander was an integral part of the game and teams relied on him. Teams without a commander were at a tactical disadvantage and therefore the spot was seldom left empty. Luckily the commander was allowed to actually play in the game so many people filled the spot as needed.

I was a big complainer of the commander changes in .8 because I enjoyed playing as commander under the old system. I started playing commander because squads were either full or totally incompetent. The outcome was that I became a competent commander and filled the spot 30-40% of the time I played when a commander was not present.

I don't miss playing commander though. I do miss the level of realism and teamwork that having one added though. Even when the commander was a moron it was expected that you followed his orders just as squads followed their squad leader's orders.

The current system has been designed for the minority of players who play tournament style play in private games where CO's are guaranteed. The developers understand the complaints from people like me but they aren't worried and that's their choice. In the end the other aspects of the game have been improved so much that the game in general is better than it used to be. And isn't that what we all want?

Bottom line is .85 is the best version of PR by far and though the commander role was not changed I'm still happy with just about everything else.

[Michael_Denmark]

The current system has been designed for the minority of players who play tournament style play in private games where CO's are guaranteed. The developers understand the complaints from people like me but they aren't worried and that's their choice. In the end the other aspects of the game have been improved so much that the game in general is better than it used to be. And isn't that what we all want?

Well Spacepiston, if that's the case, then its in my opinion that very minority's [tournament] game-culture we as a community should focus on. Cause the tournament is were PR Commanders evolve their styles, or at least the ones completing campaigns does. And as a result the game-content evolve along with their styles too.

The big problem still today is that the majority of the PR community haven't tried to play xx rounds where the artist (the experienced CO) attempts deploying his creation. The majority simply have no idea about how that factor will influence the game. Consequently the opportunistic culture stay in power on the public servers where COs are ignored and due to that not wanting to apply for the function.

And since the tournament with present day construction, makes it difficult for any player out there, with little or no more time to participate and dedicate to it, the x amount of potential skilled CO players who cant make it for the tourney, never gets a chance to contribute with their potential skills to the overall community.

The Developer team have created this awesome frame for 3D shooting, for team working and for artistic expression - as the 3 present core services of the game product. In my opinion we as community has to fill that frame out to its tactical limitations. In order to do that we need Commanders.

Maybe the DEV team through the game-content can make a foundation for creating a CO culture or at least confront the massive opportunistic culture - but we as Community - as PR players have to do our part too. We simply have to do our part.

In order to do that we need to organise our self a bit better than we have so far. Being the passive consumers as many of us are still today wont make it happen. We have to change into active consumers...somehow.

Interesting discussion by the way, thanks for listening to me still after x years of complaints from my side in regard to this situation.

[BurrumBaer]

to sum up, Michael_Denmark, we need less "n00bs", so called casual players and more ppl really interested in playing a millitary simulation, and understanding the concept behind PR
agreed

[GreedoNeverShot]

Well, the CO needs to exist. He needs some way to coordinate squads. However, he needs something else to do. Those suggestions have come up all the way since .8. I made a thread about it shortly before .8 was released.
Here
All of the ideas revolved around giving teams with the commander some advantage, giving the commander a way to leave the command post (with a laptop or mobile commanding vehicle), and/or giving the commander a special ability (such as supply drops, smokescreens, UAVs, the list went on).

Basically we have to do 2 things.
1. Make the commander useful
2. Make people want to be the commander

[zaelu]

I miss the commander also.

Bring back the BF2 vanilla ability to order artilery strikes, make a more coherent build tree in wich certain kits/weapons/armor/helis are not allowed if your team had not reach a certain "level of development" and has no commander. Let the commander play not just sit in that command post.

Make bunkers be more important, make them have heavy defence or even make them be some already existent buildings on the maps that gets "dressed" in barb wires and gets full of weapons when they are captured or deployed. Those buildings could be aleatory spots like the aleatory caps.

These days the teams look like some organisms with 4 ore more heads... depending of how many squad leaders are. How coherence can emerge from that in a short period of play of a round?

[[R-DEV]Outlawz7]

I only go when the area attacks become available for a few mins til someone requests them.

I liked being CO in 0.75 because I could command and perform logistics at the same time, while everyone else fought around, not to mention having the commander in the field next to you was a morale boost at times.

[$kelet0r]

The 0.75 fighting commander was what should be brought back. I used to play the role ALOT ... and I played it well imo - if I was on the ball, my team would crush the opposition. My role was coordinating squad movements from forward firebases or being the fire support on a 50 cal or the old AA guns, while at the same time defending the spawn. The trucks were left to the commander and I was close enough to the front to bring up logistics, set down assets to be built and act as a last line of defence. That way you played like a platoon lieutenant - in the battle but with your sergeants doing the fighting and you coordinating and crucially, supporting, their efforts.

The current call centre role is not even remotely attractive - and squad coordination has died completely with Mumble not yet ready for PR.

[JohnTheRipper]

I think the commander should be able to command near command posts, firebases, bunkers, and even rally's since they all have radios which mean communication would be there for the commander as well as give him or her more of an experience and get them closer to the action.
Plus Strikes need to be ready more often because every 20 minutes is annoying (or is that just for Chicago Insurgency?)
Last thing, build orders for a firebases and some things like that need to go through the commander first, So the position is even more needed.

Note: you can find me on the Chicago hardcore servers, if any of you care. my squad is always named black ops.