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Old 09-08-2008, 07:13 PM   #21
Katsu

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Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Masaq View Post
So? Fly with a co. Each utility chopper has 8 seats; you can fit a full infantry squad in the back and a copilot up front who, at landing, can use mouselook to check the rear of your bird and let the pilot know by VOIP.


Players shouldn't always get the easy option. In six months no-one will remember that the HUD used to tell you when someone got out, and folk will have just adjusted to it.
Okay, then change the model of the Merlin so myself or my co-pilot can turn and look into the body of the craft to see if anyone is still on board. The permanent hud of the last version was, in my eyes, the metaphor for this "turn and look", especially useful when you are hovering one foot from the ground and the fact that mouse-look breaks control of an aircraft. No problems however, pressing F1 will now become that metaphor.

I don't want the easy option, but if you want the play style to go further down the realism road then some models need adjusting accordingly and the views available (the maximum angle we can turn our virtual heads) changed.

Cheers.


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Old 09-10-2008, 03:17 AM   #22
{GD}Snake13
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Masaq View Post
So? Fly with a co. Each utility chopper has 8 seats; you can fit a full infantry squad in the back and a copilot up front who, at landing, can use mouselook to check the rear of your bird and let the pilot know by VOIP.



Players shouldn't always get the easy option. In six months no-one will remember that the HUD used to tell you when someone got out, and folk will have just adjusted to it.
So on a 32 player team its good game design to force a second player for each chopper to do nothing but be there to tell the pilot when its safe to bug out? Thats just silly, far far more nitpicky then the unrealistically high scope-on and reload times which were added for the purposes of making overall game play more realistic.

Its actually distinctly unrealistic to have the chopper pilot in the same squad, or to have the ground troops tell the pilot when they're out (which IIRC is the job of the crew chief).

Honestly I think the co pilot seat should be removed, since there is no actual job for the co-pilot to do its most often used to unrealistically increase the carrying capability of the helicopter (I'm looking at you Littlebird)


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Old 09-10-2008, 01:59 PM   #23
Smegburt_funkledink

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Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaven View Post
Try this: Go into a parking lot with your car, drive straight, then look to your right, you'll head in that direction.
Really? I sure hope you don't have a driving licence... lol

Pressing F1 shouldn't be a problem. I think it's a good thing that this 'passenger list' doesn't pop up so much, giving the pilot the choice to display it.

When passengers are exiting, you should have your (mini)map zoomed all the way in.

The last man out of the vehicle should always give a "thanks" and/or yell "go, go, go" when the passengers are all clear.

[R-Div]Robbi "There's nothing more skanky than eating out of a tub of hummus with a screwdriver."
[R-DEV]Matrox "CHINAAAAAAA!!!"
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #24
Majorpain
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

In reality, yes you would have a Crew Chief/Co-pilot who can look back and check everyone is out before taking off.

However....

99% of the time a co-pilot would just be along for the ride and useless for the team. The pop-up indicator essentially just does the job without tying up one of the 32 players on a team. What if he was a medic and revived a squad leader so they could set a RP and take a flag?

I understand where you are going with the "unrealism" of the popup, but i do think there is a limit where you have to tie up players doing extremely specialised roles when they could be out on the ground in a squad. The popup essentially does the job of the co-pilot without tying up a real player.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:50 PM   #25
Celestial1
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

For those who just can NOT deal with hitting F1, or hitting control and looking back, try to see if anyone will be willing to spend their time in your chopper as an engineer.

If you have an engineer in your chopper, he can keep you alive a bit longer so you can get back to deck to repair, as well as being a useful asset when flying the merlin, when you cannot for the life of you get people to sit in the right seats so they can hop out without being stuck in the back of the chopper and getting killed mid-takeoff.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:02 PM   #26
[T]waylay00

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Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Masaq View Post

So? Fly with a co. Each utility chopper has 8 seats; you can fit a full infantry squad in the back and a copilot up front who, at landing, can use mouselook to check the rear of your bird and let the pilot know by VOIP.



Players shouldn't always get the easy option. In six months no-one will remember that the HUD used to tell you when someone got out, and folk will have just adjusted to it.
Oh, come on. That's an extremely unrealistic expectation and a perfect example of where fun is being taken away for "realism" (if you can even call it that). Remember that we only have 32 players per side...In a game like BF2, you cannot simply recreate peripheral vision or realistic situational awareness. That's why you have to make some compromises with such items as the passenger indicator. In real life, a pilot/driver has much more control and coordination with his head. However, in PR, you have to resort to pressing down mouse look buttons just to do that. By keeping the passenger indicator, the flaw is balanced out.
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Last edited by [T]waylay00; 09-10-2008 at 11:10 PM..
Old 09-10-2008, 09:10 PM   #27
Durandal

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Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Its silly that the passenger indicator was taken out. Are the Project Reality forces really all half-disabled? All of the pilots necks are broken and they can't take a quick glance to see who is in the chopper... infantry all weigh 500 lbs and can't run for more than 10 seconds... all of the combat engineers seem to be absent minded and forgot to bring along their explosives... and lead weights have been places on all scoped weapons making it take 4x longer than normal to aim.

I love this mod and all the work being done on it is incredibly impressive. I'm very grateful to all those who have worked on it... but it seems like its now going the wrong direction. It seems like most of the devs posting here are weighing in very little of the massive amounts of constructive criticism, and are instead blindly defending against any kind of valid (and frankly quite convincing) criticism.

Ban me if you must, but I say this because I love this mod, and I want it to stay FUN first and foremost while retaining the title of "Project Reality."
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Last edited by Durandal; 09-10-2008 at 09:15 PM..
Old 09-11-2008, 09:04 AM   #28
Celestial1
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [T]waylay00 View Post
Oh, come on. That's an extremely unrealistic expectation and a perfect example of where fun is being taken away for "realism" (if you can even call it that). Remember that we only have 32 players per side...In a game like BF2, you cannot simply recreate peripheral vision or realistic situational awareness. That's why you have to make some compromises with such items as the passenger indicator. In real life, a pilot/driver has much more control and coordination with his head. However, in PR, you have to resort to pressing down mouse look buttons just to do that. By keeping the passenger indicator, the flaw is balanced out.
Haha, what? Extremely unrealistic expectation? Take 2 of your useless chopper pilots, add one engineer to a single helicopter and see how long a good pilot + that engineer last on a map.

Either hit F1 (look where you're hitting keys, it's not that hard) or hit ctrl, fling your mouse left, and check it out.

Honestly, you're making this harded than is needed; you don't have a HUD in a helicopter that tells you 'These seats are taken'. Neither does the game. F1 is a convenience, so that you can at least understand that people are getting in or out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal View Post
Its silly that the passenger indicator was taken out. Are the Project Reality forces really all half-disabled? All of the pilots necks are broken and they can't take a quick glance to see who is in the chopper... infantry all weigh 500 lbs and can't run for more than 10 seconds... all of the combat engineers seem to be absent minded and forgot to bring along their explosives... and lead weights have been places on all scoped weapons making it take 4x longer than normal to aim.

I love this mod and all the work being done on it is incredibly impressive. I'm very grateful to all those who have worked on it... but it seems like its now going the wrong direction. It seems like most of the devs posting here are weighing in very little of the massive amounts of constructive criticism, and are instead blindly defending against any kind of valid (and frankly quite convincing) criticism.

Ban me if you must, but I say this because I love this mod, and I want it to stay FUN first and foremost while retaining the title of "Project Reality."
Pilots can hit ctrl, and look back. Very quickly. And as long as you're not in a dive, it's really not that hard to check back and get back to flight quickly.

In the scope of PR, everyone is running. Constantly. At a near olympic pace. Sprinting is godly fast in comparison. Maybe we should reduce walking speed so that it makes sense. And then we could add more sprint, and make it so that everyone runs off from the squad again.

Oops, sorry, the DEVs wanted Combat engineers to be more useful than they were before. Seriously, when was the last time you used C4 to actually take out a vehicle? Maybe a bridge, or an FOP, but never a vehicle. And now that FOPs no longer require explosives, the specops job is mostly bridge/tactical destruction. Like it should be.

Start aiming earlier, your 'eyes' have to adjust to the scope's magnification a bit.


They're not going to ban you. And they're not going to ignore your criticism, but you should at least be level with them. Don't go posting about saying 'infantry all way 500 lbs and can't run for more than 10 seconds,' expecting your opinion to be revered.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:12 PM   #29
{GD}Snake13
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Celestial the whole "you don't have a hud" thing has already been addressed and debunked, don't waste everyone's time by bringing it up again. On top of that, do you have a third hand or something? Explain how you look left quick while using a joystick to fly.


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Old 09-11-2008, 04:32 PM   #30
Celestial1
Default Re: Passenger indicator.

Because I don't have a joystick. And I would bind ctrl to my joystick, or more likely F1, if that was the case. Short story shorter, I'd find a way to make do. And I couldn't possibly be "wasting everyone's time" with the HUD situation because, frankly, that is what this thread is all about.

A pilot doesn't have an indicator to remember who's in his helicopter, or to see who's getting out. Honestly, all you have to do is tap F1. That's a convenience, and no it shouldn't be removed. Or start educating people to use the "Go go go" command to let a pilot know he's empty.

Looking back is as easy (or, perhaps, as hard) as setting your helicopter in a decent position (hover, slightly less than 45 deg angle, landing, etc), tapping ctrl (or a button on your joystick) and moving your joystick left, then putting your hand back on the throttle.

Quite simply, if the DEVs put it back as it was, I have no problem, I won't be whining and complaining. But some of you need to sit back and see what YOU can do to adapt to the changes.


As I was always taught, If you can't find a way to make it work for yourself somehow, then you're not trying hard enough.
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