Insurgent Collaborator spawn time

[Truism]

An alternative is simply to improve the Civilian class to compensate for the respawn time. If they're going to wait so long, give them a pistol and molotovs. It totally defeats the point of the class, but that's the fastest way to balance it.

Civilians who are unlawfully killed should have a small respawn time, and the Coalition should suffer a real penalty. A city like Mogadishu (Ramiel) has a population of 1.5 million to 3 million, most of whom, by the time of operation are unfriendly to the Coalition actions. This compares to a few thousand, or tens of thousands of Coalition troops. Civilians make up the majority of the local population, and require no training and very little equipment to operate. Killing a civilian collaborator, is both bad PR (leading to undeployment and so on), as well as pointless, as there are plenty more civilians who can fulfil the same job.

Why, for example, give the Civilians rocks unless they are intended to form mobs and hunt Coalition forces? At the moment, a civilian mob would be killed by 2/3 people without any risk at all of the soldiers taking damage, and with little/no punishment to the soldiers. The collaborators also cannot effectively provide intelligence, due to their vulnerability. All they gained was 1 team mortar strike per 15 minutes, which shouldn't really be their job, and doesn't make up for what they lose.

On the topic of not intending for civilians to deliberately lose their life, I agree, they shouldn't actively be seeking to (though some radicals do do this to cause occupying forces bad PR, it's well documented). However Coalition forces should be doing everything in their power to avoid killing collaborators, the people they are trying to "free".

If the respawn time is kept, and civilians are (rightfully) unarmed, then it should cost the Coalition 10-20 tickets to murder a civilian. Civilians aren't going to try to get themselves killed if these times are kept, and the Coalition should have an incentive not to gun them down. At the moment, all Civilians are is a liability, with the possibility of mass intel points going to the enemy (substantially higher than the number lost on the weight of odds I'd say, particularly with how quickly they can be farmed off other kits), an inability to actually oppose or slow enemy forces and inferior healing abilities.

In these maps, Civilians should probably make up the majority of Insurgent forces, who should themselves outnumber the Coalition forces. From where I stand, kits with guns should probably be limited and civilians should be the only spawn class aside from Officer. All caches should double as spawn points, and should produce more weapons. Knifing Civilians should be THE only way of avoiding punishment unless they are on a ladder. All kits should look a lot like civilians.

At the moment, playing Insurgent is a totally frustrating joke. Civilian mobs would make the experience far more enjoyable.

[Freelance_Commando]

The propaganda from the old days was that the brits couldn't run around and blast everything, but the civs started running into their guns. Definately not very civilian like.

Now however, the gun-toting American army walces into Ramien and shoots up everything that moves, inlcuding 'colaborators' who being the evolved civilian now have a 2 minute black screen to contend with.

Sure 120 minutes will make you wish you'd stay alive, but since you don't get any huge reward for doing so, why wait? The colaborator these days must hide and rely on his buddies to stay alive. But since it's easy to blast away, what's the point of 'restraining' them?

[ReaperMAC]

Originally Posted by Salah ad Din

Well, that is not the way WE are using Civvies. But if you get long-distance sniped by a coax MG in an APC while trying to patch up your cousin Ahmed and then have to wait two minutes to respawn, that just kills it.

Shit... find better cover. The way I'VE SEEN people use Civi's, (still taunting soldiers and all) are still present and they deserve to suffer a heavy penalty for it. The guy who does the killing, also gets a penalty in spawn time. So it works both ways.

[MadTommy]

It sucks at the minute.. tried being collaborator on Ramien, shot 3 times at long range, 50% of the time throwing patches 50% watching a black screen. And i was certainly not running around being a tit. Every yank within range was firing at me. So screw that, give me a gun to defend myself with pls.

errr ReaperMAC civilians DO taunt enemy soldiers the whole time in real life.. however the soldiers IRL are normally restrained enough not to open fire.. even with rocks being thrown at them, so i'm not sure why you are wound up by this.

Obviously running into fire to force a punish is the actual problem, not taunting soldiers.

Either way this 2 min spawn is going to make collaborators very hard to find..i know i wont be playing collaborator for some time yet.

Maybe the collation is winning the war after all!

[Jedimushroom]

I'm not sure what all this 120 seconds stuff is, everytime I have been killed or captured my time has always been 230 seconds or there abouts, and that, for the innumerate out there is roughly four minutes.

Whilst I commend the attempts to reduce deliberately suicidal tactics by civvies I think we have simply moved too far in the other direction, and as fewer people play civvie more risks are taken by the coalition, more civvies die, fewer people play civvie etc.

As far as I can tell there really is no way of fixing this other than reducing the punishment for the civilian and/or increasing it for the coalition soldier.

Could a developer involved in this area kindly post whether they agree with this and if not give a reason or alternative solution, many thanks.

[Caboosehatesbabies]

120 seconds it to long, especially since the kit geometry dissapears at long range.

I think it should be 45 to 60 seconds if you are killed by enemy gunfire or TK'd on the ground, THREE minutes or more if you are "restrained", run over, shot in a car, shot on a rope, or fall to your death.

This would make it so civies aren't punished for trigger happy Coalition, while still making it suck to die, especially if you were restrained.

Also, you could make Civies have even less sprint then the regular soldiers again, to make them use stealth and not walk right up to a soldier, knowing they can just run away.

[Fishw0rk]

Wow, I also thought that the 120 second respawn was some kind of bug. Now I read that it's actually INTENDED? Please reconsider this devs. I understand the need to discourage meatshields and suicidal civs, but the pnealty is far too harsh. The "don't die" excuse is a little ridiculous as well, considering that coalition troops are (and always have been) too trigger happy. I can stomach a longer respawn time for civs when compared to normal insurgents, but 120sec is pushing the player's patience too far. I honestly have no desire to even play the civ class again due to this change (and finding out it's not a bug). No wonder why I've rarely seen cvis in .8 so far. The respawn time has driven away all the players. Please make it something more reasonable like 45-60seconds.

[hx.bjoffe]

Originally Posted by Truism

At the moment there is very little reason whatsoever to play Civvie.

Bleed at 75% health is a reason. Mortars are a bonus.
But i agree, i don't encourage it except special circumstances.

[hiberNative]

i really dislike the new civilian spawning time. i found no problems with the old spawning system, and the green shirts were a lot easier to spot, which didn't matter for the civilians really.

[DirtyHarry88]

This is awfully harsh.

I get run over from behind, 2 mins.

I try to climb a building and accidentally fall off.

4 min spawn time.