Weapon Deviation/Accuracy

[[R-DEV]marcoelnk]

Originally Posted by unrealalex

"Oh hey MEC soldier"
"Hey Marine"
"Good luck with your shot man"
"Thanks dude you too"

nice one

[Wolfe]

The settle times are for maximum accuracy at maximum range, so you don't have to wait that long for lesser distances.

For example, the standard rifle has a 300 meter maximum range. If you turn the corner and see the enemy at 100m, you don't have to wait 2.5 seconds after moving. You're 1/3rd the distance so you only have to wait less than a second to achieve enough accuracy to score a hit. Same is true with the per-shot delay. It all depends on your range to target.


And by the way, if you were in Iraq and saw an enemy 100 meters away, would you stand in the middle of the street and start shooting? I don't know about you, but I'd get my ass behind some cover. When the enemy came closer, one of my squadmates would blow him away. Teamwork, anyone?

I haven't had any problems. Last night I was 18-2 kdr with a standard rifle. Cover and move. Cover and move. Not run run run.. oh noes an enemy! run shoot run.

This isn't .7

[Richy]

how come on a local game one of myteam mates cannot kill a afk insurgent at 200m with a m14. stable time inc. something is very wrong there

[Wolfe]

Interesting, considering the M14 has an in-game effective range up to 350 meters.

Define "cannot kill".

Are you aiming for the head? The body? How badly are the shots missing?

[Richy]

well first we tried the head,no kill. then we tried upper body,hit a low wall infront. thrd shot we aimed at the head again and hit him in the arm. only a bleed out shot

[Waaah_Wah]

Marksman deviation is fubared again... The minimum deviation seems to be waaaay too high. I was missing center mass shots from 150 meters after lying still for a long time and holding the rifle steady for 2-4 sec

Talking about the M14 here btw

[Wolfe]

Originally Posted by =BMI=Richy

well first we tried the head,no kill. then we tried upper body,hit a low wall infront. thrd shot we aimed at the head again and hit him in the arm. only a bleed out shot

Sounds about right.

At that range, the weapons are not designed to target someone's head or guarantee a body shot. We're trying to move away from pixel-perfect accuracy or firefights that end in 2-3 bullets. The overall idea is to promote longer, more intense firefights and encourage squads to work together when firing at a target.

As I stated in my long post above, the limitations of the BF2 engine force us to make some sacrifices when trying to create realism in-game. The weapons are less accurate than .7 and less accurate than their real-life counterpart. I wish we could have realistic deviation but without soldier momentum or weapon sway, we're forced to include those factors into the deviation itself. So rather than error on the side of too much accuracy (which promotes rambo individualism), it's better to error on the side of less accuracy (which promotes more realistic movement and teamwork). If anyone can think of a better way that doesn't turn the game into counterstrike... we're all ears.

Of course, nobody is saying the new system is perfect. It will need tweaks. Unfortunately the only way to know what is wrong was to play on a large scale over a long period of time... and the only way is through a public release.

We'll dial it in over time.

[Psykogundam]

Originally Posted by [R-CON]Wolfe

Of course, the problem with an 8 second delay is that a real-life sniper doesn't have to to wait that long between shots. Once their position is set and calculated, it's very easy to place multiple shots on target with little or no delay between them. So why not allow this in PR? In this case, the concern was if the per-shot delay was something like 3 seconds at 900 meters, a sniper would only have to wait 1 second at 400 meters, giving a sniper the ability to wipe out an entire squad in 5 seconds with perfect accuracy. While that's a good thing for real-life snipers, it can ruin the gameplay in PR.

My only consern with this is, that once you take sombody down, the rest of the squad will run for cover, and whoever doesnt, deserves to die lol.

IMO the sniper should be devistating. Not rediculously devistating, but enough of an obstical to gain a commander's attention. i am a good shot, and i have practiced with it quite a bit. and a while back...i totally gave up on sniper kit, because it is...for lack of a better word, Baised towards gamer types, and does not share the synergy of realism that other weapons have. I really dont get it, you only get a max of two sniper kits per team (full server) and we allready have devistating weapons like Anti air guns, machine guns and grenade launchers which when used skillfully can annihilate squads and rally points. The sniper kit with a 2 second delay would be no more devistating than a cobra gunner in the right place at the right time.

Dont get me wrong, i respect all the Developers and their decision, but i think that the sniper kit has been unfairly judged, and handicapped in a way that hiners gameplay for people who are skillfull with a sniper kit. The sniper kit could be one of those kits where the player's high skill could simulate effectivly the skillfullness of an actual sniper. just my two cents.

[Clypp]

The deviation changes are fine, but sometimes unrealistic misses occur even when the suspected criteria is met. This is especially noticable in CQB. Having a G3 on full auto and firing at a person 20m away should kill within a few shots, regardless of any time based deviation because near misses are still hits when aimed for the center mass.

I think that lowering the settle time to 50% in most cases would improve the situation greatly. Remember that we have the added time to scope in + settle and the recenter target after recoil+settle time to think about. This adds to significantly more time than the settle alone.

[Truism]

I went 18-5 (three of the five being due unnecessary house clearing and poor choice of defensive locations by the squad) with scoped rifleman, and then marksman on Muttrah. Concealment has become disproportionately important, and the importance of being the one who has eyes on the enemy's cover (so that you can fire when he reveals himself) has also become more important. These are welcome decisions from my point of view, however I would still like to see stationary accuracies improved and the deviation for changing aimpoint negated. This is because if in the act of actually aiming, I make myself less accurate, then a sort of meta-dialogue is set up that reduces the immersion in the game (in a really frustrating way).

I had no issues with the Marksman kit, but I wasn't using it for it's intended purpose (my shooting was from a concealed location inside 50 meters of the target). Given that the entire point of the marksman kit is to provide accurate long range fire for a squad, an inability to score a centre of mass hit in ideal conditions at 150 meters seems grossly inadequate.

On another side note, I was thinking about crosshairs the other day, and the entire point of Vanilla (better implemented in Rainbow Six et al) crosshairs it to simulate the things that devs are trying to do. If we are going to continue to use look down sights, then we should either have perfect accuracy (which is the whole point of these sights really) or really think about introducing H-AT style crosshairs over our own sights because a soldier in real life has a far better grip on how accurate his shots are going to be than a PR avatar does. This whole stabbing in the dark thing is sort of counter-intuitive.