Regarding the vehicles

[Paladin Necroman]

Hello, i saw the topic talking about not puting planes or tanks against FARC, but that wouldn't make sence, since we already got maps with tanks against insurgents, witch is already a 'faction' itself... It makes no sence, since the FARC really are much well armed than the insurgents, it's like an well organized army, in theory, way more organised than the middle eastern insurgents and we got tanks against them in the game. You can tell that by the photos, looking that they even got their own uniform and have their own training camps hidden in the jungle.
Brazil also uses airplanes against small planes that might carrie drugs or if they are illegal or non-declared, so you just tell me if they'd use it against an well organized faction like FARC. Insurgents are much more "improvised", and still there are maps with tanks against them (wich btw can be a pain in the ass lol. weel, what adds to that is the fact that it adds more gameplay).




Also, take in consideration these news, to analise how any airforce and mechanized infantry would react to such treats, any would react at same height if in dangers of such nature and some other cases. The real army can not ignore what FARC represents in threats.

Here's what one of the DEV's said, so compare it to the actual news.
"theres no way to use tanks, planes or whatever deadlier equipment agains FARC."



http://noticias.terra.com.br/noticia...s+a+bordo.html

http://desastresaereosnews.blogspot....ao-com-15.html

http://www.estadao.com.br/arquivo/mu...0222p25709.htm

(portuguese)"A guerrilha das Forças Armadas Revolucionárias da Colômbia (Farc) afirmou neste sábado ter derrubado um pequeno avião espião americano..."

"The 'FARC' afirmed this saturday to have shut down an american spy aircraft..."

(portuguese)"Mais de 3 mil soldados, com apoio de helicópteros
artilhados e aviões de combate, participam da gigantesca
operação de busca e resgate dos três americanos."

"More than 3 thousand soldiers, with support of helicopters equiped with artillery and combat airplanes, participated of a gigantic operation of search and rescue of the three Americans..."

http://noticias.uol.com.br/inter/afp...t34u46141.jhtm

[[R-CON]Salmonella]

Originally Posted by Paladin Necroman

Hello.....

Of course FARC have more power and organization than Middle East insurgents, but we just trying to keep the reality, Amazon operations are based on infantry/light vehciels, we have Tucano doing bomb runs on known enemy positions and thats all.

I (speaking only for myself) don't like "near future predictions" like this, furthermore I like to develop something more balanced than the actuall Insurgent game mode.

We had internals diccusions about upcoming rifles, armor, aircraft and more, but most of it wasn't decided yet, isn't fully operational or isn't real.

So, i'll quote myself "theres no way to use tanks, planes or whatever deadlier equipment agains FARC."!!!

[Paladin Necroman]

"(speaking only for myself) don't like "near future predictions" like this, furthermore I like to develop something more balanced than the actuall Insurgent game mode."

The first time i saw that post, i said: "yeah. ok", but then thinking about again, i said- "Wait a minute!"... Here's that feeling again, lol.

Why you say so if the original concept of the game is to make it more realistic?And why you said that if most of the factions currently are "predictions", like the Chinese against US?

Added to that: so much data around, actual kidnapped people, drug conections, more and more often situations regarding FARC, Brazil's Airforce recent decision to more fiscalization on illegal aircraft, it makes it very much consistent to me. US and China conflict are way more distant than FARC against Brazil. By now, we have endless data to enforce this position, by one side, the game dynamics and original proposal and by another, actual basis on what's going on... I really don't see why not...

I'd say you must follow the original basis of what has been done. Make it more balanced? Well, this is easy to answer to: the insurgents don't lose tickets when they die, americans do, insurgents have mines, ied's but don't have armor. Us has armor, but don't have any explosives, apart from the limited kit, so these are realistic stuff that happens in the real combat wich pretty much almost evens the sides, but important to take note is that these are actual elements used and taken into consideration to try to even the battle. So, every conflict can find it's elements to even inside it's particularities.

As you said before, it's not yet all decided and stuff, and you'll make use of bombings, but here's more conclusive data to influence your decisions.
I strongly advise you DEV's to take this consideration further. It's a fan(s) with data you'r talking to, and here's the responsebility to the game concepts lol.

When you read this one in particular and search around the net for more information regarding it's realism features to include airplanes and/or tanks assets and consider what has been going on in the other factions, I'm sure you'll see the consistency and possiblities of what can be done. It would be used to much enrich the particular experience of these 2 peculiar factions in the game. I've stored this particular data on my favortires some time ago, taking notes on this subject, here's a special use that has come up, and fits like a glove for the occasion:


Até 40 rebeldes colombianos morrem em bombardeio -  Mundo - MSN Notícias

English:

"Up to 40 Columbian rebels die in bombing BOGOTA (Reuters) -

Between 30 and 40 members of the biggest rebellious army of Colombia had been killed when forces of the government bombed its position in the mountainous central province of Tolima, said a local authority in the friday. The attack brandished one of the biggest blows of this year against the marxist guerrilla of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc), that was pushed for deeper in agricultural isolation for the measures of security of president Alvaro Uribe, supported for U.S.A. A local leader of the known FARC as Hieronymite can have been dead in the attack of the thursday, said to the local radio the governor of Tolima, Barreto Oscar...."

[[R-CON]Salmonella]

I have no reasons to argue with you, its MY opinion and that’s YOURS, we can't judge each other.

You wrote about expectations and other Comfacs,

What I(only me, not the team) see in Comfacs (with all respect to them)is each country putting all their available firepower (even if isn't real) to fight the same poor punch bags.

The 2 full scale OPFOR you cited(MEC and PLA), aren't real, neither made by their own people, and why I thinks its cool? for being fictional? No, for being balanced against USA and GB
Russian vs Chechen is cool as well, and they are real and balanced.

What I'm trying to say is that we can make a cool and balanced game without unreal features.
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Alright, assuming you still don't agree with me, what are your suggestions of assets and balances for our BRAZIL vs FARC conflict? and then, what can you do to help us?

[Paladin Necroman]

matter effect, I made my point, and my point takes into consideration facts, as opposed to something i considered not to be the most proper decision given all facts and circunstances, independent of opinions. It's a highlight onto something either unnoticed or unknown.
I'd call opinion weather or not you like red or blue out of nothing.
Weather you like it or not the rain
I'd call a point arguing about weather you put red or blue on a flag given a contry's peculiar circunstances, for the concrete facts a colour represents or if raining is bad for car traffic as it represents causes of concrete traffic jams; on a contex, given the facts, with co-relations;

Cause - the game already has examples of how a tank can work against insurgency; the game aims realism;the specific FARC has had shut down airplanes, got involved with possible heavy armory to shut down a plane in real life.

Effect/co-relation - given the known experiences with insurgency in the game, tanks could be applied here; the game must follow an original pattern and realism...


We can't judge each other but we can build something judging facts, that takes the parts into consense. Makes sense why i say "opinion" way of analising is a bad habit? Bud, because i tried out to put good basis, just, you know , as someone who looks from outside, you know, a highlight of unoticed facts, not a pretentious big fat opinion.

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That's what i said: the current PLA in game for example uses the J-10 in real life.
US vs Insurgents- it's balanced with it's unique real features.

I think i already helped highlighting this stuff for now, as i thought to be the main thing i just noticed.
Moving up to a specific choice of a vehicle, couldn't discuss that into specific matter and facts, i have no technical knowledge on that, weather what vehicle would be used in a specific occasion, the main thing to put out was that some vehicle like tanks or planes could be used.

By the way, for now i pretty much like the work, so i wanted to give some detail on what i think nobody noticed for a fact. the "wait a minute" stuff.

[[R-CON]Salmonella]

Originally Posted by Paladin Necroman

Moving up to a specific vehicle chose, the choice of the vehicle would depend on the map and "story" behind, and how and where would be used.

now you get where I wanted to, what the "story" behind it? You wrote several things about it, but still don't see where you find something to justify the employment of heavier assets.

If you can figure out a "story" to put tanks, fighters, bombers and etc inside the Amazon jungle, I really like to hear it.

What you gonna do with a tank? roll all over the trees where barely a man can pass trough? and with a bomber? burn all our beloved jungle to ashes so you can find the enemy?

The further I can go is, after 2015 (if the world still exists) FARC activities intensified, there are many “compounds” into the jungle, Brazil build ups dozen of new ground bases and heavily increase the ground troops, the Mi-35 together with the Rafales helps with CAS and surveillance, that’s all, still no tanks, apcs, napalm or nukes

I'm not against vehicle warfare, just not in this scenario.

[Paladin Necroman]

It looks like you ignored all links i put. How about that 40 colombian killed?
How about a highjacked airplane? that could be made up as a stole airplane, wich could be used for transport; for a counter-attack, a tucano fighter, without rockets. Something like that taking reference news.

Tanks could be as well be used at the big devastaded areas, citie limits... as reference that map you made... you have roads that cut the jungle, wide sand areas, big camps...
Tanks are used in the russian map with lots of trees. Brazil uses tanks in amazonia, look at the pictures in the net and written information.

The tucano could be used as anti-troops without rockets, or maybe about 6 rockets, and troops could have anti-air assets or hand mounted (that one- "american spy airplane shutdown")

Well, you have also wide plantations of cocane, and cattle camps for tanks. Tanks were used in Vietnam. And in Battlefield Vietnam dense and small jungle maps. Hmm... and amphybious vehicles.

There you go, lots of examples of jungle scenarios that already used tanks

[Paladin Necroman]

YouTube Video

The airplane could be used to attack FARC cocaine camps, or something like an objective guarded with like 4 to 6 AA's, but only 1 attack airplane to the map. Or something like "retrieve the stolen FAB airplane"

[[R-COM]FPaiva]

That was already dicussed.

Closed

[[R-COM]FPaiva]

Opened due to community vote.