Regarding the vehicles

[Borisbr]

Hi Paladin, thank you for your feedback, especialy because you took time to research to make your point, those kind of discussions are always healthy. And its a good thing that you brought this up, so we can share our point of view not only with you but with everyone that follow our faction progress here.

I'd also like to add that most of us doesnt dominate english perfectly, causing some minor miscomunications, wich i think happened here on this topic.

This project is not new, I think it has been over then a couple years that we started to work on this faction, maybe more, I'm not sure because I joined the team a few months ago. Thats the reason why when we came public, we had a lot of work already done and almost every single thing that you pointed out have been extensively discussed by us before we done that. But it doesnt mean we are closed out to new ideas.

We are trying to make the factions as close to the reality as it can be in regards to tactis and equipment without hurting the gameplay. We cannot make a overwhelming Brazilian Army that will make FARC players want to switch sides, nor the oposite.

All that beeing said, lets get to the point:

The main core of Brazilian Armored Companies are garrisoned on the south, near the borders of Paraguay, Urugay and Argentina where the landscape make the best use of those.

The Brazilian Army does NOT use armor on their operations on amazon, simply because they are unefective. Its impossible to operate a 45t Leopard tank on a rain forest, due to the muddy terrain and the forest itself.

The major part of our maps will be of dense, closed forest. There will be little open areas and suitable places for tanks. Our maps will not be like Qiling or Fools Road, think about 10x more trees. Think about only a couple routes to take and few open areas, now think about the waste of assets that happen every day on most servers. A tank, would only be one more thing to drain tickets from the blufor.

Dispite all that, we are gonna put the amphibeous APC, EE-11 Urutu, in some of our maps.

About the AT-29 Super Tucano, we really wanted to put him on the mod, because its such a unique vehicle and excels on its job, but we couldnt come up with anything to counter it. It's hard enough to kill an airplaine in a map like Kashan that have many types of AA's and a really far viewing distance, now imagine trying to kill an airplane with no more then a handheld AA in a map 80% covered by huge trees. An airplane with a good pilot would dominate even further on such map.

But something that you might not know is that we are going to put both transport and CAS choppers available for the brazilian faction.

Also something that is really important for you to understand is that the Army Infantry Divisions based on amazon are highly trained to operate on that terrain, they are recognised arround the world as one of the best, if not the best, jungle combatants.

Another thing to add is that every single Army and Air Force soldier consider Amazon to be the greatest treasure that Brazil has, and have a deep connection with it, specially those who are based there, the ones were trying to represent on this mod.

Having tanks run over or just bomb the crap out of it is just not an option for these guys, specially on assymetrial warfare against soft targets.

But hey, thats only the ideas for our first release. No one would like more to see all of the equipments that Brazil has on the mod then us. We have some toughts on what comes next after this first release, perhaps a Brazil vs Venezuela conflict or the Brazilian Marines on Minustah (Haiti).

[Paladin Necroman]

I much agree with you sir, i think there's been a comunication issue.

Well, but now, to everything you said, it makes much sense now, thank you for the attention.

Ok, i get the tank part, and i can draw the correlations between tanks being used in the open fields of the south part of brazil, and tanks being used in the vast open deserts, so these come together to the idea of how a tanks is used...

But it comes again to mind that tanks have been used in the real tiny maps of BF:V, (i can recal it well) and actual combat in Vietnam jungles, i'd like to discuss more on that...

But following that whole plane idea, i had in mind on using those airplanes, to put the FARC's AA's at the high places on the map, but they'd have to be the regular ground based and added in strategic points (it just comes to mind now that movie "Behind Enemy Lines" plane crash by AA hardware, even thought it's in Russia and may have it's open fields, well just an example that came by of a plane crash in a wild area) around the map (such as hill tops), and anti-air guns would be added to the requested kits... I think it's possible, you could give it a try, perhaps make a model and try it yourselves to see how it works. I think it's worth it and there's ways to balance FARC against planes, since we have to remember that Tucano is not close to a fighter jet in terms of speed , firepower and avionics, so yeah, thats a pretty strong thing to consider encounters against AA. And yes well... to my experience when you'r locked on to an AA in kashan open areas and you'r in your fancy jet, u have to stick ur fingers at that flare button and get ur nose up in the sky not to die, plus pressing the afterburner with all your faith...
The Tucano varies depending on the weapon choice, like i said before, to even it out, you have the option to put or not the rockets, that makes diference on how deadly and vulnerable. A proper look up on either the plane equipments and the FARC AA elemets such as it's positions, numbers, is something easy to see from here.
Lets say, on a map with better positions on AA and the whole army, a Tucano with rockets. On a map with worse conditions for FARC, a tucano with only a main machine-gun. There! Perfect!


Of course a Tucano would behave in the BF2 engine much diferent than the regular jets by now on it's basic set out and we could vary according to what we want based on real elements. Also, the AA's can lock on even when it's a bit out of sight or height with it's electronic radars.
Tucano is way more vulnerable to AA's whatever kind, you can enhance that idea on the news colected, that FARC actualy shot down an american spy plane! so yeah that's some strong stuff to have a better look. FARC is well armed to shut down these aircrafts from the news. And planes are important on monitoring Amazonia, and i have been looking on the news and it's been some time ago since the government decision to harshen the air-space patrol in Amazonia, it means planes have been more present at the area, it's a good thing to showcase and one more reason to demonstrate out to the world the Brazilian army and hardware and please the honourable officers of the armed forces, after all, the Tucano is genuine brazilian. After all, the tucano was produced on brazilian human effort.

A good call, it just fits in the idea perfectly, either the game dynamics that can be adapted, the realism, and the responsebility i can see you are in and attentious on the brazilian army you are going to depict out. We must answer it.

[Borisbr]

It's kinda hard for you to understand what I'm trying to say, in regards to maps, if you never saw them. I mean, the ammount of trees, its just crazy! Did you watch the jungle videos? I'm gonna check with the other guys if I can send you a link with one of the maps so we can get on the same page here.

I think that the main focus of someone who's making a game (or a mod in our case) has not only to do a really detailed and good looking game, but also a fun one. We are trying on our best efforts to do that, and on our case, fun means balanced.

Knowing the circunstances of our faction, my opinion is that, it would be extremely realistic to bring the Tucano to the mod, but it would also disrupt the gameplay because FARC wouldnt have anything to counter it.

The so called "american spy plane" that FARC claimed to take down (theres no confirmation of that) wasnt a UAV or anything like that, it was a colombian Cessna, a really slow and low flying airplane, that had 2 colombian officers and 3 americans, that FARC also claimed to be CIA agents (theres also no confirmation on that).

The colombian government has taken a really strong and aggressive position against FARC on the past couple of years, and the result is that FARC lost a large part of its controlled territory and its also loosing a lot of its numbers. So far, there have been not aprehended a single AA missle. The supposely "american spy plane" was shot down by small arms fire.

Edit:

Something that I forgot to say, we are having some serious issues regarding hardware performance on our maps, due to the large number of vegetation. We were only able to make 2x2km maps so far with a decent fps and no lag issues. If we cannot find a way arround it, we wont be able to make 4x4km maps. Without those, doenst make much sense putting paratroopers or an airplane flying arround.

[Paladin Necroman]

I understank the tank issue, but you didn't say anything about battlefield vietnam and the real vietnam war.

You also didn't say anything about the many ways to balance it using realistic and fun elements.

[Borisbr]

Well, its kinda hard to compare PR to any vBF, PR is much more focused on teamwork while vBF is much faster pace all-you-can-kill madness. vBF is pretty much arcade, almost no regard to reality.

On the Vietnam war, heavy armor were very little used. I know the most armored vehicle used was the M-113 apc, but we are also gonna make apcs available to the BR faction.

We are gonna adapt some stuff to the current game modes that PR offer, we also have some ideias about new game modes, but right now, we are engaged on getting the mod to a point where we can start to test things.

I cannot tell you if we are gonna bring new elements or not, simply because we cannot test our ideias and see if it works. But hopefully, we will be able to do that soon.

[Paladin Necroman]

Ok, cool...

But you still didn't give me your position on that idea (back onto the other post) to balance the Tucanos...

[Black/Brunez]

Well,armored vehicles don´t works very well on the Amazon Forest. Perhaps the only Brazilian tank that can to appear there is the EE-9 Cascavel. But send tanks just to destroy drug deposits and illegal runways is too much, and the game need to be balanced.
About the Tucanos, I have no idea about how to balance it =(
I was thinking about on the Farc´s vehicles. if it´s even difficult for an Urutu to cross the Amazon Forest, cars and pickups have even less access. I´m not saying about removing the farc´s vehicles, but to add some light boats and helicopters is not a bad idea.
And I spotted that Venezuela will have some tanks and fighters. So add the Tucanos, Rafales-M, EE-9 Cascavels, M60 Pattons and Leopards 1A1/1A5, specially to fight against the country. To make possible the tank confront, How like to make a map on a Colombian urban area, were Venezuela is assaulting the position and Brazil is there to support on the Colombian forces. Remember that this is just a suggestion

And (on the future, of course) would not be a bad idea to make some operation on Haiti, remember that with the earthquake the situation there will become even worse.

And remember that those things that I wrote are just suggestions, and I know that I don´t have the best English

[cagumelo]

Black, what you sad has been alredy sugested, for now it will have ONLY BAF vs FARC, someday maybe we will have BAF vs VAF, not saying that its a bad idea, i'm just saying that for now it can't be done

[[R-COM]FPaiva]

The main design plan is Brazilian Army against FARC, but in the future it can be Brazilian Forces agains Venezuelan Forces and Brazilian Marines against Haiti Militia (Insurgency mode).
Maybe in a near future, factions like the Colombia, Chile and Argentina Would come in handy in a Alliance against Venezuela, Equador, Bolivia and Paraguai, since those 2 alliances are enemys and the South America seems to be walking into a war patch. I mean, with the activation of the 4th American Fleet and the Destination point of this fleet set to Colombia, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela is starting to buy more equipment than ever and Luiz Inácio (lula) is starting to follow his paths. Meanwhile, Venezuela, Bolivia, Paraguai and Equador forms a strong military-economic alliance and Hugo Chavez supports FARC, now, ELN have been allied to the FARC and USA government sources points that FARC have Al-Qaeda connections. In the other side, Brazil, Colombia, Chile and Argentina forms the top alliance on the theather.
Now the other countrys who can make any interventions here: The France (French Guiana) The Netherlands (Suriname) and the USA (to join colombia/Brazil efforts)

See? If a full war rages here, the whole region is going to blow and the clime is tense for now.

[Wilkinson]

Yeah. this forum is BAF and FARC Only really. VAF are not approved and when they are. They will for sure be set up against the Brazillians as well as the Dutch Marines. Way down the road atm but still there.