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Old 07-10-2008, 02:43 AM   #521
Rico11b

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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

Me starting to think that you guys are not understanding what I'm getting at. Maybe I'm not asking the right way. I'm not talking about comparing the unit of measure in the game to the unit of measure in the editor. Those are the same, they are supposed to be. I'M talking about being able to compare the length or distance of something in game to something in the real world. And be able to determine if they are the same or different.

Let's pretend for just a moment that all in game player models are 2 meters tall. Now if I were to ZAP an in game player model and somehow transport him into the real world, would he be actually 2 meters tall? Would a real life 2 meter tall person be the same height as our in game model, or would it be something different. If it is something different then the game and real life are not on a even one to one scale. Meaning an in game meter would not be the same length as a real life meter is even though the game, and editor says it is. Thus we can't just copy and past real world specs, data, and values about weapons into the game, and expect it to be the same.

Meaning.... shish nevermind


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This is what should be expected from a "real" M-16, when fired by an "expert" shooter! This applies to "expert" only. However, someone that can only qualify basic "marksman" by hitting 23 out of 40 targets will NOT shoot this well! Period!!!
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:37 AM   #522
M.0.D
Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

They know what you think .. but 1 meter is DEFINED as 1 rl-meter .. so it is that way. Perhaps Soldier-Models are not in scale, perhaps maps are not in scale, perhaps weapons are not in scale, perhaps vehicles are not in scale .. but 1 meter is 1 meter ( period ).

Means whatever you do you have to take one thing as a defined value to be abled to scale all other things and the meter is this value.


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Old 07-10-2008, 05:51 AM   #523
Jonny
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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

It is the same though, exactly the same.

Its the scales that are off, by a different ammount for each object. The scale used is the only thing we can be sure is correct ATM.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:50 PM   #524
Rico11b

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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

OK!

I've come up with an idea. Maybe you guys already did this, maybe you did not. If you didn't, give it a try.

We know that there is ONE constant IN GAME that does exist in the real world. As far as I can tell they are exactly the same in length. That is TIME. Time seems to be the constant. One second in game time appears to be the same as one second in real world time. We can use the speed of things in game to determine that exact scale or length of something like measuring distance.

An example would be this.

Determine what the real world speed of a given projectile, like the TOW for an M14 bullet. Lets say for example that a TOW missile travels at 250 meters per second. Using our handy-dandy timer we load up single player and setup a target at 500 meters exactly. We then fire the TOW at the target. According to the settings for our TOW it should take EXACTLY 2 seconds for the TOW to reach 500 meters. (Longer distances would work better than shorter ones.)

If it does not arrive on target in EXACTLY 2 seconds then we know now that we have to increase or decrease the speed settings in game to get it to arrive on target in EXACTLY 2 seconds. Once that is done we can determine the difference (if any) between the in game settings and the real world speed listing to get our scale. So tweaking the files for the TOW in game we use the real world meters per second listing, and start there.

Let's say (in our example) that is takes 4 seconds for the TOW to reach the 500 meter target instead of 2 seconds. Now we know that we can't simply copy and past the real world figures because the scale doesn't allow for it. So we will have to input 500 meters per second to achieve the desired real world "appearance and behavior" of the TOW. We can do the same things to determine the pull of gravity in game. Take something up and drop it from a measured height, and see how long it takes the hit the ground. Scale is determine by using time over distance. Or is it distance over time hehe

This whole thing acts like a laser range finder. It shoots out a beam, and measures the time it take the light to reflect back to the optic sensor. In our case we would shoot and a TOW missile (or anything) and measure how many seconds it takes to strike a target at a known (in game) distance. What could be more simple than that? This could probably be done in the editor, but I don't know enough about the editor to try it I would recommend that it be done offline so as to eliminate as many time variables as possible. Also a super fast video card to reduce the chance of video lag.

Now does that example make more sense?



Note: Using bullets might work better since you don't have to account for acceleration. Then again the TOW in game might not have an acceleration value. Maybe the game engine makes it the same speed from the time it launches to the time it hits. In that case the TOW would work just fine.


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This is what should be expected from a "real" M-16, when fired by an "expert" shooter! This applies to "expert" only. However, someone that can only qualify basic "marksman" by hitting 23 out of 40 targets will NOT shoot this well! Period!!!
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Last edited by Rico11b; 07-10-2008 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:31 PM   #525
zangoo

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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

ok so i havent been here rly, but why are we talking about unit of measurements? think about it, your saying that the models are correct but the tanks are not correct conpared to the ppl, so i think it is safe to assume that the meter in bf2 is equal to 1m in real life and that all the models are off.


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Old 07-11-2008, 12:45 AM   #526
nedlands1

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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zangoo View Post
ok so i havent been here rly, but why are we talking about unit of measurements? think about it, your saying that the models are correct but the tanks are not correct conpared to the ppl, so i think it is safe to assume that the meter in bf2 is equal to 1m in real life and that all the models are off.
Well the Abrams model isn't off in terms of length. I measured it to be ~9.82 m in the editor, with the gun forward and in real life it is ~9.83 m (Source: http://www.gdls.com/pdf/M1A2_flyer.pdf).

The LAV-25 model is pretty much to scale too. I measured it to be ~6.43 m in the editor and in real life it is 6.39 m (Source: General Dynamics Land Systems - Strength on your side).

I'm sure it'll be a similar case with the other vehicles...


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Old 07-11-2008, 04:15 AM   #527
Jay
Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

I think the Challenger II has been scaled down IIRC.

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Old 07-11-2008, 04:37 AM   #528
Jonny
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

Actually, he does have a point with the time thing.

We could use it to PROVE that 1m in game is 1m IRL. And that the units used by the game are in fact SI units.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:49 AM   #529
nedlands1

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Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I think the Challenger II has been scaled down IIRC.
From the editor:
Length of the hull (including the fuel tanks): 8.75m
Length of the hull (excluding the fuel tanks): 8.13m
Length with gun forward (including the fuel tanks): 11.91m
Length with gun forward (excluding the fuel tanks): 11.29m

In real life:
Length (hull): 8.327m
Length (gun forward): 11.55m


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Last edited by nedlands1; 07-11-2008 at 09:20 AM.. Reason: Realised that I messed up a value so I redid them all
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:18 AM   #530
Jay
Default Re: [Coding] Balistics/zeroing [WIP]

huh! I could have sworn Rhino or one of the other DEVS said that the Challenger had to be scaled down, cause it dwarfs the other tanks, or something like that... But I guess not.

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