Update: Project Reality v0.874C Open Gameplay Beta : Part 2

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by Rotta

I would rather have RPs demanding at least 50% of the squad in its "influence". By this, I mean both living and death players: In a squad of six players you could have two dead soldiers queueing to RP. They spawn if one more dead player enters the queue, or one living squad mate comes to a radius of, say, 30 metres. The only exception would obviously have to be two-men squads, requiring both the soldiers.

Already thought out, main reason this wouldn't work is that squads would leave one guy permanently near the RP while the rest attacks = exploiting the idea.

This current ver proves to be harder to exploit, a good thing.

[Demonic]

Originally Posted by FusionGames

It's a really good change, we should consider the 30s of the rally as a "Regroup", seeing it in that way, i STRONGLY recommend that RP's placement requires 3 SQ members (2 soldiers 1 SL).

Only if possible, also i recommend a "delay", i mean that the SL must keep pressed the "Place rally point" button by 5 or 10 seconds to place it, with the SQ members less than 10meters from him.

What if 4 members have been killed? I prefer 2. The rally is only going to be open for 30 seconds and than you get a very long wait time before you can set one up again. IMO good way to get a squad rallied with there SL no matter what the reasons are. Than having to walk 300M to get to him. If 4 members are dead, with your idea. They cannot rally.

It doesn't diminish what the devs are trying to accomplish in getting people for focused on FOB's. Just gives a squad a quick way to regroup there squad if needed which I like.

I definetly like these changes over the first beta. Where there was no rallies. It was definetly a refreshing change of game-play but it would have gotten boring and stressful very fast due to the ammount of walking that was in place. Atleast with these additions the RP is not completly removed but it's also not depended upon as it only lasts 30 seconds leaving the team with still having to setup FOB's and defend them.

I really like it, good job.

[Kirra]

This is basically what i suggested then?

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...ly-points.html

[cipher]

It seems that the reason you guys want to make these changes is to force people to think tactically and set up Defensive Fortifications. Not just the firebase, but the HMG, foxholes, AAs, and barricades, as well.

To do that, you don't really need to use spawn points as leverage. The only reason that I see for people not building Defensive Fortifications is that they're normally worthless. The only thing of value is the spawn point the firebase gives (and the AAs on certain maps). Foxholes and HMGs are deathtraps, and barbed wires are difficult to use to your advantage. I have a couple of suggestions to improve them:

First, the problem with foxholes and HMGs are that anyone sitting in one after being spotted by the enemy is about to die. For foxholes, the problem is that in order to use one you have to stand up, which means you cant shoot for crap and your torso is exposed. On top of that, since they're normally 5 feet high, they can be seen a kilometer away. I'm guessing that putting them underground wasn't an option cause of limitations with BF2s code. To make them safe for player to use, though, I think you should allow players to press "E" to deploy their gun, with some type of animation that only places the soldiers head above the sandbags. If you can't lower the foxholes below ground level then maybe pressing "E" can let players enter them. In the real world, the helmets worn by soldiers will stop most small arms fire, so there's essentially only a small target area for a fortified soldier to worry about. Maybe even cheat a bit for defenders and leave a gap between sandbags that when deployed, the weapon gives the defender a field of view a bit larger than they should have.

For HMGs, the problem is that there's no cover at all from the front. I believe real world machine gun nests are camouflaged to make a difficult target, but that's not gonna happen in this game. How about instead you place sandbags or a weapon shield around the player, to the point where nothing but a well placed shot from a rifle with high magnification can take him out. If this blocks his FOV then put a shallow trench under his body so that his head and the gun are elevated, but the rest protected from shots coming at 10 or 15 degrees.

For barbed wires, you can allow the squad leader to place them in two steps. The first build order will set the left end, and the second the right. This would allow you to place these things exactly where you want them, and chain them together with no gaps for infantry to cross. Even better would be if the squad leader could set a build order, and then run along the path that he wants the wire to run. This would let you block off your flank on hill objectives, and probably a million things we've never thought of, yet.

If you throw in these changes, I think Defensive Fortifications will be so powerful that you'll have to tweak HAT ammo availability and repair time for soldiers to achieve a balance with the strength of the fortifications. I think these would be server side changes though. Medics would also need to be reigned in further so that players can't die five times without coughing up a single ticket. It would be great though to see players trying to do things like lob grenades into foxholes for a change!

The last suggestion I have would be to shrink the cap radius for objectives. Just draw each one into the map and keep the radius on the map as a general guide. If Hill 179 is the objective, then make THE TOP OF THE HILL the cap radius. force players to clear out the enemy instead of just waiting in bushes looking every direction waiting for someone to try to flush out the other, while the flag stays neutral. A mini outpost built into the map as an objective should yield it's flag to whoever controls it. I have some other suggestions for tweaking the maps, but I'll place those in another post in the appropriate forum. Tweaking the maps I think is probably the biggest way you can influence the tactics players do or don't use. I won't go into detail, but in brief I think thickening the underbrush on forest and jungle maps to realistic levels and forcing players to use preset trails (or make the knife a machete?) would make chokepoints and defensive perimeters more effective.

[Oddsodz]

Well, I Have tried it. And I Must say I like it for the most part. But I can play the slow waiting game. but the more casual weekend players will not stay. And I do believe this one move of trying to get rid of RP's will just force the game into a new level of slowness boring walking. And as I pointed out on the 1st test, "He who camps the route from the OP4 main, will win the battle for his team." 1 Tank can and as I have seen today will win a whole battle of Kashen. Just by camping the normal routes from the USa main. A Mec tank just sat on a hill and blasted everything that came over the hill. And with no Rally to out flank wth. It was just a white wash. I Must point out that it was not base raping. It's the same on Muttra. MEc can and almost every time the map comes up, Do Rush to D4k5 with a truck and build AA and bring a HAT. They can get there just as the 1st chooper lands at the docks. Now that's if the USMC team is going well. When they are not. It's just a rape feast. The LAV can't get near due to HAT fire. and the Choopers can't get near due to AA. Sure you can all the way around. But it's to late. The Damage is done. At least with an RP you could flank the D4k5 FB.

So in the long run. The squad that rushes. Will win the map for there team. Just because they will slow the OP4 team so far back IE: the main. This will kill the MOD for casual player. Well I think so.

[SniperMan1]

I love the Rally Point changes and believe it will promote better teamwork.

[General_J0k3r]

Originally Posted by Artnez

The fact that you started the list with '0' did not go unnoticed

coders...

[Artnez]

Originally Posted by Oddsodz

Well, I Have tried it. And I Must say I like it for the most part. But I can play the slow waiting game. but the more casual weekend players will not stay. And I do believe this one move of trying to get rid of RP's will just force the game into a new level of slowness boring walking. And as I pointed out on the 1st test, "He who camps the route from the OP4 main, will win the battle for his team." 1 Tank can and as I have seen today will win a whole battle of Kashen. Just by camping the normal routes from the USa main. A Mec tank just sat on a hill and blasted everything that came over the hill. And with no Rally to out flank wth. It was just a white wash. I Must point out that it was not base raping. It's the same on Muttra. MEc can and almost every time the map comes up, Do Rush to D4k5 with a truck and build AA and bring a HAT. They can get there just as the 1st chooper lands at the docks. Now that's if the USMC team is going well. When they are not. It's just a rape feast. The LAV can't get near due to HAT fire. and the Choopers can't get near due to AA. Sure you can all the way around. But it's to late. The Damage is done. At least with an RP you could flank the D4k5 FB.

So in the long run. The squad that rushes. Will win the map for there team. Just because they will slow the OP4 team so far back IE: the main. This will kill the MOD for casual player. Well I think so.

Flawed logic IMHO. Just because there's an AA and HAT doesn't mean they can't be destroyed. Just because there's armor ambushing the main road on Kashan doesn't mean it can't be destroyed.

Regarding the "boring walking", not everything needs to be !!!!ALL AcTiOn ALL ThE TiMe!!!! It really doesn't take that long to get to yours quad. Really man, come on.

[[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude]

Noes! Death to the human trebuchets that are the Rally points!
These changes are promising indeed!

...mongol...

[corp_calqluslethal]

2 things i want to say. My experience from playing the new versions

1.) its like being on a squad whose sl has an sniper kits and doesn't put spawn point for you. My team won because we put a strategic fb in area of map no one ever goes. But still had to end up walking 600m to next objective if you died. That sucked. Imagine you walked 700m soon as you get there, get killed and have to walk 700 m again.

2.) you guys want more teamwork, have you forgot 90% of the players are teenagers, They will not fair well with your new teamwork plans. Not saying teens are dumb by anymeans but you are asking a lot from them. I can see in advance, it will take a long time before they catch on and the game runs smoothly like before.

To make a long story short, no spawn points anymore a lot of walking and your gonna lose if you have the most teens on your team. : \