North American Union, its happening.

[dunkellic]

Originally Posted by Pence

The GBP is actualy the strongest currency that you can bank with and it totaly owns the Euro, the reason why the US Doller is used so much with oil is because of their ability to control its sales. The Rand is on the up & up it would cost me R10.90 for £1 and it is steadily costing less.

I havent traded with the Yen but its worse than the pethetic Euro.

...

okay, you totally seem to have no clue about the euro.
for example, the euro is pretty strong, and far more important than your pound because much more countries do use it, even if it is less worth, like the dollar, but hey!? has this to be such a bad thing? no!
take the old german currency, the "deutsche mark", one mark was less worth than a dollar, so with the euro, our currency has become stronger.
actually, a "strong" currency can become somewhat of a disadvantage, again, look at germany. germany is the export worldmaster and because of the strong euro it suffers from that, because now it´s gotten more expensive to export things to foreign countries.
last but not least, the euro is much more "comfortable". we dont need to change our many if we go on vacation (within europ that is^^), unlike the british people.

You are 100% correct, and I am 100% against that as are most Americans. We have no reason to be globalized, IE giving up sovereignty for some economic gains is treason in my eyes.

yet your country is the biggest motor of globalization

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by dunkellic

yet your country is the biggest motor of globalization

Do you really think the people of this country and the govt are one and the same? This example, the topic of this thread proves that is not true.

[Lugubrum]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

You are 100% correct, and I am 100% against that as are most Americans. We have no reason to be globalized, IE giving up sovereignty for some economic gains is treason in my eyes.

I wish The Netherlands had such a kind of attitude.

Originally Posted by Dylan

Oahu is basicly LA on an island, its over populated. And im not "Hawaiian" I am a normal American white boy, being taken over by the melting pot. Thats all I got to say to that. :P

I don't really know how the situation is at your place but my whole neighboorhood is getting more non-Dutch throughout the years. All kinds of 'nice' people from Africa and Middle-East. I really love them, they bring so many positive things with them, more criminality is one of my favourites. My experiences with those people last couple of years where also wonderful. I love all the different cultures in this country I really do.

These things could have been prevented if we didn't have soft immigrant policies but The Netherlands are known as 'tolerant' nation. Now with the European Union it's easier than ever for immigrants to get to this country. There are hardly any borders anymore, you can just walk in one European country to the other most of the time you won't get through a checkpoint at the border so immigrants can go whenever they want, it's a paradise here. I think The Netherlands should step out of the European Union as we are also bonded to their laws and when The Netherlands is against a new law we don't have to say much about it because we are so small country. So The Netherlands voice is not worth much when voting for new decisions. And the politics did let the Dutch people ask for their opinion once because 'they where interested in the voice of the people' but not much they cared about it. I don't think they care about our opinion, behind the screens they are slowly deciding new things without any care of what the people think about it.

About the Euro: I don't think the Dutch people ever wanted that too they just putted it down our throat. Even if it makes the economy slighty better (which I can hardly believe from how I see things got more expensive everywhere) the Euro doesn't fit in The Dutch identity I think. 'De Gulden' (former money in The Netherlands) was typical Dutch, part of our culture, part of history, part of our identity. But many people think economy is more important than culture or national identity. 'It's all about the money' isn't it. Article about the 'Gulden': http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_gulden . I think I may do a big towards the politics for having the Euro now.

Another thing: next year Polish people are, without any law stopping it anymore, totally free to work in The Netherlands. I just KNOW that many Dutch people are going to lose their jobs because of this cause many Polish workers work for less money. It just makes me so angry. These are all indirect consequenses from the European Union. When Dutch people choose foreigners over their own countrymen because they can make more personal money out of it, then they are in my eyes a countrytraitor. Simple as that. And then to think that this decision was made by so called 'right-winged' political party's to allow Polish people to work here, all my hope for the future suddenly dissapeared the last years. And now I didn't even start about all the illegals that are still living and working illegal in this country and how easy immigrants get the Dutch citisenship.... And if the left-winged coalition political party's get at the power next year they want to make all the illegals Dutch citisens even if they are criminal or can't speak one Dutch word. We are way too tolerant as a country and that is destroying our country from inside... Maybe the goverment are pretending to be tolerant and social and blablabla -> the usual political correctnes stuf, but one day the Dutch people have enough of this crap and the hopefully the time of tolerance is over. And, and, and I have so many more things that bother me but I will stop now cause I am just getting angry... If you have read up to this point thanks for listening to my rant.

[dunkellic]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

Do you really think the people of this country and the govt are one and the same? This example, the topic of this thread proves that is not true.

well it´s not like you had less advantages than disadvanages because of globalization (aka americanisation in some parts). without it, america wouldnt have the place it has right now

Do you really think the people of this country and the govt are one and the same?

govern by the people, for the people, isnt it? (just a little bit irony^^)

[six7]

Our Constitution is in shambles right now, like Fig said. Its horrible. Every American value I have learned from history and civics classes seems to be trampled on in one way or another by "big government". Just like the Bush (and I like the guy) wiretapping and recording our phone calls! Where was congess involved? What has the Supreme Court done to enforce law and order? Nothing. It's pathetic; branches of goverenment overstepping their power in one area and neglecting their responsabilities in another. Gahhh this country is going to pot .

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by dunkellic

well it´s not like you had less advantages than disadvanages because of globalization (aka americanisation in some parts). without it, america wouldnt have the place it has right now




govern by the people, for the people, isnt it? (just a little bit irony^^)

It is ironic, but if you can seriously sit there and cannot believe that ideals cannot be corrupted and things people say can very well be the exact opposite of what they mean or intend to do, you fail to acknowlege the evil within mankind.

A serious question, who has more say in what a govt does. Big business and thier lobbiests or the people? Since you are such a pro globalist, the answer should be obvious.

[dunkellic]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

It is ironic, but if you can seriously sit there and cannot believe that ideals cannot be corrupted and things people say can very well be the exact opposite of what they mean or intend to do, you fail to acknowlege the evil within mankind.

well, it was just an ironic statement, but believe me, that is not only americas problem, just look at germany for example, or dozen other nations

A serious question, who has more say in what a govt does. Big business and thier lobbiests or the people? Since you are such a pro globalist, the answer should be obvious.

well, i´m not "pro-globalist", for example, i consider myself "anti-lobbiest", because that´s just legal corruption.
it´s just that globalization is something that has become unstopable, lets just try to get the best from it.
i know, our countries will have disadvantages within the next years, but only because we were already able to profit from globalization.
just imagine what our country (or your country) would be without the cheap laborworkers in africa, making our t-shirts, those things would be hell of a lot more expensive (yes, i know that many people lost their jobs in the textile branch), or at spain, were germany gets most its fruits from, that are so god damn cheap, it´s a shame that most of them taste like water
we were able to lift our standarts by "abusing" poorer nations, let´s give them a turn to get advantages from globalization.
you also shouldn´t forget what imense cultural and technical developement it has brought, in the end you owe the ability to fly to a foreign country for a few weaks (and even get along with your english) to globalization

[SiN|ScarFace]

Originally Posted by dunkellic

you also shouldn´t forget what imense cultural and technical developement it has brought, in the end you owe the ability to fly to a foreign country for a few weaks (and even get along with your english) to globalization

We owe that to WWII and wars, which I suppose could be tied into globalization. My problem is, and I don't say it often here is that globalization is not to make our lives better (even if it does in some cases for some people) it is the push towards a one world govt. Which is a very bad thing, nations turning into super states is the obvious progression to this, the UN is the foundation for this and it does not take a genius to see that once you start looking at the world and the never ending quest that man has to have power over others, that this is exactly what is happening. Add that to the FACT that recent american presidents have openly said (infront of the UN no less) NEW WORLD ORDER, that by itself could be brushed off, but when you look at the big picture it all points to just that. Even when most people in most countries are opposed to being merged with other nations and sharing laws that are written by the EU parliment and then apply to all in the EU even if your country wants nothing to do with it, you get it anyway.
This the American Union is no different, its being done out side our governmental systems and largely without the people even knowing, who would oppose it, but why? Why do men we put in power do things we don't want nor thought they would do? Politicians lie, power corrupts and thoes who are of true wealth live in a different world than the people they claim to represent. It is easy to screw people once they have placed thier trust in your hands, because they don't even watch you because they trust you.

There is already talk of a UN standing army, NOT PEACE KEEPERS, an ARMY that is controlled by the UN and whos soldiers are not on loan from other nations. Talk of a joint North American military force (can,usa,mex). Both are very bad things, the monopolization of power.......

[Figisaacnewton]

To reply to a few things: A UN standing army?! Wow. Can you get any more corrupt? I think not.

IRT six7: Lincoln suspeneded Habeus Corpus for the entire Civil War. Legal. The Supreme Court let him do it. My personal opinion; Bush was (and is) within his rights to order such things because we are in a war, and historically, (there are more examples than Lincoln) the president has always been able to do things MUCH more extreme then Bush has (Lincoln held a guy w/o charge for 4 years) in order to protect our rights.

I don't want to turn the thread into a discussion on this, I understand your position, every newspaper in the country holds it. You see Executive Abuse, I see Judicial Abuse and Executive Abuse, the point is, its taken 230 years, but people are figuring out the loopholes in our Constitution by deliberately ignoring or totally misinterpreting/rewriting them, and its fucking us up.

As a Conservative, I am a strict constitutionalist. I believe that the Constitution of the United States of America is the best system of government in the world. The only problem seems to be that people are too willing to corrupt it in order to further thier own personal aims. As the original Drafters thought, political parties are a bad idea. We need PEOPLE, CHARACTERS, VALUES, and IDEALS to run, not politicians representing thier high paying constituents. We need people like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, and Reagan, people who believed in America, people who, despite the differences in thier means, tried as hard as they could to make this individual country as great as it can be.

I believe the question that is before us is: What can we do? Can we keep on going with the party we think is the least of 2 evils? I dunno...

[dunkellic]

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

We owe that to WWII and wars, which I suppose could be tied into globalization.

well, it was in your hands after wwI but more so wwII to push globalization or not. you, and that wasnt so evil corrupted governement, decided for it, which i think was the best thing to do. (it was you and the soviet union to be exact - but you were the more powerfull state)

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

My problem is, and I don't say it often here is that globalization is not to make our lives better (even if it does in some cases for some people) it is the push towards a one world govt.

globalization is not to make your lives worse, even if it seems so (thats not what it is intended for). true, a lot of people that dont deserve it get the better part, but still, without globalization america wouldnt have the place as the sole superpower in the world, and there would have been many, many backdraws. just imagine what would be if no albert einstein would have immigrated into the us, or a lot of other genuis heads, that came to your country - in the end you owe this to globalization, which made it so easy to emmy - and immigrate.
neither is globalization as push towards one world govt, or at least not the un.

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

Which is a very bad thing, nations turning into super states is the obvious progression to this, the UN is the foundation for this and it does not take a genius to see that once you start looking at the world and the never ending quest that man has to have power over others, that this is exactly what is happening. Add that to the FACT that recent american presidents have openly said (infront of the UN no less) NEW WORLD ORDER, that by itself could be brushed off, but when you look at the big picture it all points to just that.

what? the mission of the un is not to push anything, the united nations are just a "bunch" of reprasantives of every state in the world( and not a governement), like a forum for all the leaders. until now, the un doenst have much real power, it all depends on its member, souverign states.
it´s not about a united goverment, but about a united humanity. and just imagine if there would be no real states anymore, there wouldn´t be any conflicts about territory or ressources, in one single state.
furthermore, there was a thing like the un even before wwI, it was called the "commonwealth of nations", but it failed to stop the germans to start a war, and after wwII, the un was founded, to prevent such a thing, not to inslave all people.
also, the new world order you are talking about, is not one humanity under the un, it is about the usa being the new "rome", the sole leading power in the world, and nations would be divided into friends and enemys ("youre either with us, or against us")
addionaly, even the us represantive for the un said it openly, that he doenst care much about what the un says, neither does the rest of the american politics.

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

Even when most people in most countries are opposed to being merged with other nations and sharing laws that are written by the EU parliment and then apply to all in the EU even if your country wants nothing to do with it, you get it anyway.

well, recentyl the people voted against a european constitution (that would have not replaced the nations own consitutions), mostly because many didnt even knew what was written there (people are stupid ).
also, the eu laws are, or actually were mostly about economics and alike, but why souldnt we share our laws? is a united world worse than a nationalistic one? and when saying that our people dont want the eu, well, it depends. the polish are happy that they can work here now and that they get massive investements from the "west". many people here, especially with jobs that dont need special "specifications", because they can easily be replaced with cheaper people. but that´s the way of capitalism, it should now be our intention to draw profit from this, and boost our high end industries and alike, a thing which the poorer states can´t do right now.

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

This the American Union is no different, its being done out side our governmental systems and largely without the people even knowing, who would oppose it, but why? Why do men we put in power do things we don't want nor thought they would do? Politicians lie, power corrupts and thoes who are of true wealth live in a different world than the people they claim to represent. It is easy to screw people once they have placed thier trust in your hands, because they don't even watch you because they trust you.

in my opinion there were people that could have prevented this, and i´m not necessarily talking about the democrats.
and still, it is you who can vote, and it is you that can form a party (though americas two party system is far from perfect), but in the end it all depends on you, the people (and as i said, i fear most people are stupid^^)
or just use your second amandement right *joking*

Originally Posted by SiN|ScarFace

There is already talk of a UN standing army, NOT PEACE KEEPERS, an ARMY that is controlled by the UN and whos soldiers are not on loan from other nations. Talk of a joint North American military force (can,usa,mex). Both are very bad things, the monopolization of power.......

the army would consist of troops other countrys would give the "un", and the security council still would have to decided weather to deploy those troops, for peacekeeping only, or not, and that council contains america, france and if i´m not mistaken the uk


keep the mistakes you find here, i was too lazy to read through it again...it´s all hot and sweaty here..^^



edit: this thread turns out to become an interesting conversation