[Weapons] PSC M4A1 Variants

[gazzthompson]

"probably", "maybe" , "think". its all speculation.

[Solid Knight]

I doubt it since they carry rocket launchers.

[[R-CON]ReadMenace]

Originally Posted by gazzthompson

i guess situation dictates.

That photo is from the 'Battle of Najaf' or whatnot -- pretty unique. This situation involved Blackwater working directly with Marines, the weapons undoubtedly belong to the Marines and not the Blackwater operators. There is no plan to remove PSC players ability to pick-up dropped kits.

Originally Posted by Solid Knight

I doubt it since they carry rocket launchers.

Who, when, where? CPA Order 27 dictates that PSC operators in Iraq cannot be in possession of explosives.

-REad

[BloodBane611]

Who, when, where? CPA Order 27 dictates that PSC operators in Iraq cannot be in possession of explosives.

No, they are not. CPA order 27 does not dictate any rules about weapons for PSC operators, although it does refer to CPA order 3(CPA order 27, see section 5).

Some excerpts from CPR order 3:

Originally Posted by CPA order 3, Section 3, part 2

Private security firms may be licensed by the Ministry of the Interior to possess and
use licensed Firearms and Military Weapons, excluding Special Category Weapons,
in the course of their duties, including in public places.

Originally Posted by CPA order 3, Section 1, parts 3 and 6

“Firearms" mean automatic (7.62mm (.308 caliber) and under) and non-automatic
rifles, shotguns and pistols for personal use, and associated ammunition. Such
firearms are subject to licensing by the Ministry of Interior. Firearms do not include
weapons rendered permanently inoperable, replicas, antiques or ceremonial weapons.

“Military Weapons” are any weapons systems, ammunition or explosives or explosive
devices of any type designed for use by any military forces but not including
“Firearms” as defined in this Order. Military Weapons do not include weapons
rendered permanently inoperable, replicas, antiques or ceremonial weapons. Military
Weapons include “Special Category Weapons.”

Thus, PSCs are allowed to receive licenses from the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior to have and use explosive weapons, including rockets and grenade launchers. What the Ministry of the Interior gives out is not public knowledge as far as I can tell, so I can't say whether they actually give out licenses for military weapons. However, CPA order 3 did allow PSCs to be given weapons privileges by coalition forces, rather than the Ministry of the Interior.

Originally Posted by CPA order 3, Section 3, part 1

The following individuals are authorized to possess and use issued Firearms and
Military Weapons, including Special Category Weapons:

a) Coalition Forces,

b) Iraqi security forces, and

(c)Groups and individuals who have been authorized to carry weapons in the course
of their duties by the CPA or Commander, Coalition Forces or their duly
authorized delegates.

there were many ways that PSCs could obtain and lawfully use explosive weapons, including all of those mentioned in previous posts, during their time in Iraq. Of course now that the Iraqi government is fully in control of their own nation only the Ministry of the Interior can authorize weapons, but for 6 years it was effectively the wild west.

[[R-COM]HangMan]

Bloodbane special weapons include explosive weapons They are banned in Iraq aswell as crew served weapons. To my knowledge there are no PMC's permitted to use them. I belive Icelandic civilian forces maybe though?

[[R-CON]ReadMenace]

Originally Posted by BloodBane611

Originally Posted by CPA order 3, Section 3, part 2
Private security firms may be licensed by the Ministry of the Interior to possess and
use licensed Firearms and Military Weapons, excluding Special Category Weapons,
in the course of their duties, including in public places.

That would be the correct order, thank you. But as you can read, Special Category Weapons were excluded.

-REad

[BloodBane611]

“Military Weapons” are any weapons systems, ammunition or explosives or explosive
devices of any type designed for use by any military forces but not including
“Firearms” as defined in this Order

That's the section that leads me to believe they don't really mean it. The point I'm trying to make is that this is a gray zone, as on one hand they are allowed to have explosives, and on the other they may not. Obviously PSCs were not stockpiling rockets, as for the most part explosives aren't particularly useful to them, but certainly if they thought rockets might be useful they could easily get their hands on them, and without much, if any, legal ramification.

Case in point: A large number of those PMCs were put to work destroying Iraqi ordnance, which requires the use of explosives. Someone on these forums had pics of his dad working in Iraq somewhere in the military technology forum section, but it looks like the archives don't go back far enough to see it anymore. The point being that when necessary, the rule is designed to be circumvented.



Now, given all that, in most PSC work explosives create added problems. Certainly property/personnel protection is rarely if ever helped by using explosives, and bringing explosives to areas heavily populated by civilians would only lead to further civilians casualties. The PSC faction, even in areas other than Iraq, isn't one that will have a lot of explosive weapons in the role of VIP/Objective protection, because it just isn't useful. Ultimately we both agree that PSCs were not and are not using them in Iraq, I just think it's important to keep in mind that it is not out of the realm of possibility.

[[R-COM]HangMan]

hehe we can call a truce here then? The PSC Faction will not be using explosive weaponry.

Also can we try get back on topic? This is an M4 varient thread. Someone can start a new thread if they really wish to argue this further.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by [R-COM]HangMan

It adds nothing to gameplay or the weapons functionality ingame

But why bother with a new model in the first place then, since PR already have a M4 model.

[[R-COM]HangMan]

Originally Posted by Spaz

But why bother with a new model in the first place then, since PR already have a M4 model.

You'd have to ask WallyJas There are noticeable code differences though like the fact that this one is full auto.