cplgangster

i agree somewhat but tbh the amount of time to get in to a decent place to actually use the SAW effectivly would probably take the same time if not longer as the grenedier kit tbh, if you just fire willy nilly at the hip you will hit nothing. So getting prone then deploying generally is the best thing to do to get a hit on anything. This can take time especially if there isnot adequate cover where you spawn in at.

FuzzySquirrel =US=:And the point is me sneekin up on a U.S tank IF i had c4 or a mine they would have been dead
[R-DEV]AfterDune: And we all agree, that is pretty.. pretty bad-ass!
Darth.Skylinei remember this one time i was running to the living room, so i decided to jump to get me there faster (yeah vBF2 style haha) - but then i hit my head on the top part of the door

Top_Cat_AxJnAt

The tactics required to beat the enemy depend on the weapons used. A new weapon can make a new tactic possible, while the desire to win a fight with the least looses can make employing this new tactic a necessity.

If you fight with smooth bore muskets there is almost no need to used concealment or camouflage. Fight with rifled weapons, and conceal/camo hugely increases your chances of survial and in turn becomes a important tactic.
Any type or amount of fire can suppress somebody. Using muzzle loading guns, only Company and Battalion tactics are important because hundreds of soldiers are needed to lay down just a few rounds a second of fire.
With Breach loading rifles one man can suppress one if not many, tens of men can lay down many rounds per second. Platoon and squad fire and movement tactics become both possible and essential.

Fire team are only truly born out of the machine gun, where one man can suppress countless Only. A squad can divide, with each ft able to laydown enough fire to allow the other to move.


Whether these tactics are employed in game and if any balance, realism or perceived negative issues arrise from its availability, depends on a lot of other factors.

Are the weapons realisticaly modelled. E.g. an inaccuratlly firing rifle could allow players to run across open ground for longer than is possible in rl. Making napolionic style tactics more the order of the day than they have ever been in the last 150 years!

The existence and layout of cover, concealement (HA!), open space exists and flag objectives on maps. E.g. a maps containing locations with both cover and concealement (bushes) and a clear field of fire (underline) over a similar location that is flag, with smaller peices of cover and concealement between the two, demand suppression and concealement tactics from the player in order to capture the flag.

If you had the above landscape but no machine guns, a squad could not (underline) divide into fire teams and have 1 ft lay down sufficeient fire to allow the other to advance. Making it very hard to employ the tactics needed to win.

The reverse, have a machine gun but in a landscape with very little openspace and little cover. Now you have no safe place to fire your mg and you dont have a clear field of fire over the enemy. Again, making this no place for many fun tactics .


All the same applies to the Grenadier kit. Its is capable of causing the same affect as the machine gun: suppression but it just delivers it in a different way, from above! Making the GL more affective than the mg at suppressing enemies inside buildings, landing shells through windows but not as so against enemies in a thick wood. Just as importantly, if not more in very open areas, the GLs smoke shells can create whopping ammounts of concealment. In these regards, the GL allows a squad suppress enemies in all situations, create concealment where there is none and therefore allow squad movement in all situations. Sounds like pure WIN to me, a 40mm in the head of stalemate and trench warefare!

But just as poor map design can affects the machine gun influence in game play, so can it on the GL. Maps with too much flat ground, and too few ditches and mounds and oh how you will regret issuing one to every squad.

[R-CON]Rudd

not when compounded by the bf2 spawn system

imo you have to choose betweek grenadier as spawn kit or rallies and Firebases.

Or you'll have to spawn in without any m203 grenades, otherwise it will be spammy.

imo in .85 grenadier > LMG, I'm not allowed to comment on .86.

LMG doesnt take cover atm because the deployed mode can only be used while prone, changelog shows this has changed.

Skodz

How about having the squad limited SL kit have a grenadier rifle instead of the regular one. Isn't it usual to have SL grenadier in real military ?

That would make it;

1 LMG/Squad
1 grenadier (SL)/Squad
1 Medic/squad

And you could replace the ironsight SL kit with a rifleman AT.

Now you could have;

1 grenadier (SL)/Squad
1 medic/squad
1 LMG/squad
1 rifleman at/squad
1 rifleman
1 rifleman specialist

(Rifleman specialist should actually play the role of real combat ingeneer... Or replace it with squad limited combat ingeneer...)

That would make it;
(Infantry squad)

1 grenadier(SL)/Squad
1 medic/squad
1 rifleman AT/Squad
1 Combat ingeneer/Squad
1 LMG/Squad
1 rifleman

Wouldn't such a setup be much more realistic and respectful of real infantry section composition ?

The combat ingeneer should be a mixt between rifleman specialist and the actual combat ingeneer in my opinion. So it'll be effective at combat but specialised into door breaching, bridge destruction, road mining, defenses building, light equipment reparation, etc.

Skodz

Well, I guess you could also add 1 squad limited marksman... That would make full specialist squad... Maybe thats not so great of an idea.

Himalde

Love that solution with those limited kits there. I play a lot of medic and, hate being the only one doing that in the squad. I just hope the kits doesn't disappear as fast as they do now.

wuschel

Excellent posting. I enjoyed it - a lot.

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2ndLt_Tracz

I think it is good enough 1 medic per squad, I mean if you have 2 medics ur squad has no firepower if they r doin their work, plus in reality there is only one medic in a squad. And you can just simply tell if people play TW on public server just by them havin a mic exept for if they are like 12 years old.

But also I am for both optical and ironsight M249, I mean like in Archer you will probably use the optics but in Fallujah or karbala they will just be a distraction and yes I thought of that a while ago, you could do the thing they had in vanilla with the locked weapons but istead of guns make it Ironsight and optical, and yee make for everyone even the specialist.

Cassius

Good call. In Jungle warfare you do not have a steady supply of LAW rounds, however a squad as good as always carries a machinegun. The new system will reflect that.