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Old 04-21-2012, 07:55 PM   #61
ytman
Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

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Originally Posted by Stealthgato View Post
Needs more clays to be carried at once. By the time I'm done setting up an effective layer of claymores the enemy has already gotten the objective I was trying to deny them.
This. Maybe just give three 'ammo linked' claymores. This way the Claymores would both rearm faster and you'd have greater flexibility with the more important traps.

I personally really like the AP kit, even in its current form for the trip flares alone... in the hands of the right squad/operator devastating ambushes defensive kill boxes can be had. Obviously the defensive teams (Hamas/INS/Taliban/Militia) have more incentive to use them, however that doesn't mean the conventional forces can't be just as successful.

One really important thing about these weapons is understanding the volume of ammo needed and the actual range of these bad boys. 50 meters peeps.

And to suggest against the 'trip wire' claymore is more than just realism... its lack of killing ability. Only one person will set it off.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:02 PM   #62
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

One reason for limited quantity of Claymores per soldier is that in real warfare, Claymores and other such items are issued out in very limited quantities and are often an item that must also be specially requisitioned (not normal issue/supply to all squads/platoons). And when a unit is deployed with Claymores, you might only see 2-4 per platoon, or in very rare cases 2-3 per squad. And those are spread out between the soldiers, usually one soldier only carries one item. Same reason you don't see large quantities of M136 issued out to every grunt either.


As for "chaining" multiple Claymores together, yes it's possible but not with the standard-issue satchel. The top of the Claymore has two wells for the blasting cap, one left and one right. In order to chain Claymores together, a soldier must cut down det cord and crimp caps to both ends to insert into the Claymores to be chained. And the only soldiers in the field that will be packing such equipment are Combat Engineers or specially-trained Squad/Platoon Leaders with specially-requisitioned supplies.

And with chained Claymores, once the first one is command-detonated, the rest of the chain will detonate in series almost immediately after (delay based on length of det cord). There are no multi-switch panels that let you pick and choose which Claymore to light off, this isn't the movies and your common soldier will never see such a device outside of a movie theater. Same goes for radio detonation devices, tripwires, pressure plates, lasers, etc. You get a clacker, that's it.


I do agree that the ability to recover Claymores would be so much more realistic, but you also have to consider how un-realistic the deploy times are in-game. In reality you don't just drop the mine, flip an arming switch, and make things go boom. Properly deploying a Claymore takes an average of 3 minutes, but that time can vary up to 10 minutes each depending on the circumstances. And it takes almost as long to recover one, and in the PR realm it would be much easier just to find an ammo crate and resupply your inventory.

By having greatly-reduced in-game deployment times and lacking all of the "complex" tasks associated with effectively setting one up to actually inflict kills, I think it's more than a fair trade-off.


As for some of the older posts regarding the disabling/disarming of Claymores, it's pointless. Because they are command-detonation only, if you're able to even get close enough to disarm it, then the person with the clacker is obviously dead or not at his post. I will not go into details about EOD techniques or explosives technology, for obvious reasons.


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Old 04-25-2012, 02:19 PM   #63
ytman
Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

Basically, and I've felt this way from the start, any squad wanting to use the AP kit well needs both time and resources. I've been doing some tests and the AP mines seem very potent... its just about observation and placement.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:22 PM   #64
ComradeHX

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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

I think the problem with not being able to recover claymores is that you blow up all the linked ones at the same time(if you placed ones near your own fob...lots of team kill) even if you are at the other end of the map for ambush.


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Old 04-25-2012, 08:18 PM   #65
ShockUnitBlack

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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

So what do we want to do?


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Old 04-25-2012, 09:47 PM   #66
ComradeHX

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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

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Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Ninja2dan View Post
As for some of the older posts regarding the disabling/disarming of Claymores, it's pointless. Because they are command-detonation only, if you're able to even get close enough to disarm it, then the person with the clacker is obviously dead or not at his post. I will not go into details about EOD techniques or explosives technology, for obvious reasons.
Are you 100% sure that Claymores used by U.S. is command-detonated only?

I recall seeing something about U.S., China, Russia, and some other countries not signing that international treaty regarding anti-personnel mines.
Ottawa Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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Old 04-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #67
dtacs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ytman View Post
Basically, and I've felt this way from the start, any squad wanting to use the AP kit well needs both time and resources. I've been doing some tests and the AP mines seem very potent... its just about observation and placement.
Agreed. I've been owned by claymores many times but I can't work out why so little people use it even though they're aware of its potential.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #68
ytman
Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

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Originally Posted by ComradeHX View Post
Are you 100% sure that Claymores used by U.S. is command-detonated only?

I recall seeing something about U.S., China, Russia, and some other countries not signing that international treaty regarding anti-personnel mines.
Ottawa Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just because the treaty isn't signed doesn't mean AP mines don't use clackers by default. I've found a couple US FMs for AP mine using and the general thing is that its command detonated.

The Claymore would be a useless waste of effort and resources if it went off whenever one person walked by.

-----

On the subject of 'grenade traps' no conventional faction should get them. Booby traps aren't able to be properly scaled in PR... the time scale and constant flow of battle doesn't work for it. On the other hand the Unconventional forces, by the nature of defending, are able to place booby traps reasonably since any position lost is not assumed to be fought for again in the near future.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:49 PM   #69
[R-DEV]Ninja2dan
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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeHX View Post
Are you 100% sure that Claymores used by U.S. is command-detonated only?

I recall seeing something about U.S., China, Russia, and some other countries not signing that international treaty regarding anti-personnel mines.
Ottawa Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Ottawa Treaty was an agreement to stop using any and all anti-personnel mines, to stop new production of such mines, and begin destruction/removal of stockpiles of such mines.

While the US and other nations have declined signing of the treaty, many of them have taken steps to improve the technology and design of AP mines so that, although those nations will not cease use, they are attempting to make the mines "safer" for post-conflict removal. For example, most US AP mines are now designed with self-destruct mechanisms and we no longer use "booby traps" or leave non-destructing mines unattended.


The M18A1 Claymore Anti-Personnel Mine is packaged in its bandoleer with only the M57 "clacker". All US Army soldiers are trained to use the M18A1 during their Basic Combat Training (Boot Camp), and they are all trained to use it exactly as the TM/FM states and as directed on the instruction sheet located on the bandoleer flap.

But due to the design of the M18A1, it is possible to use a non-electric cap for detonation, in the same manner that they are chained. When chaining mines, the primary uses the M57 and electric cap, while the rest of the mines in the series are detonated with a non-electric cap and a length of det cord. But as I mentioned above, only a very limited number of soldiers in the field will be trained to use demolitions equipment and be issued such equipment necessary for non-electric priming.


Without disclosing too much detail, I am trained and qualified in military/DoD, law enforcement, and commercial/industrial demolitions/blasting. During my time in the military, I was trained to use alternative methods of initiating the Claymore mines. But this was not training that your average soldier would receive, nor were those methods something you'd use on a regular basis. In other words, the mine does have the capability for alternative detonation methods, but the chances of most people seeing it or even learning how to do it are slim.

And those alternative methods are also intended only for emergency/survival situations, or during limited special operations where the "normal" rules are shifted slightly.


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Old 04-25-2012, 11:16 PM   #70
ComradeHX

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Default Re: Remove Or Update The Rifleman Anti-Personnel Kit

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Originally Posted by ytman View Post
On the subject of 'grenade traps' no conventional faction should get them. Booby traps aren't able to be properly scaled in PR... the time scale and constant flow of battle doesn't work for it. On the other hand the Unconventional forces, by the nature of defending, are able to place booby traps reasonably since any position lost is not assumed to be fought for again in the near future.
Russians have easy-to-set 0 second fuses for their F1 and RGD-5 grenades.
I talked to some veterans(one Soviet and one in RusFed VDV during 2nd Chechen war) and found out that they all knew how to use those as grenade traps for obvious reasons(also very easy to disarm, obviously just put the pin back in).

They are in very conventional forces. At least Russians should have them.

Only thing needed is a way to remove them(IRL it only takes less than 10 seconds once you get your hands on the grenade without blowing up).


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