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Old 03-25-2010, 10:15 AM   #1
[k]MuffinMaster

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Default Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

When firing a machinegun in deployed mode, one can realize the barrel moving upwards, leaving the whole gun hovering off the ground. This is very strange since the deploy mode simulates a machinegun being fired while it's resting on a bipod. In reality™ the barrel is held in position by gravitation and the body of the shooter supporting it with his weight.

Look at this: YouTube - Shooting the Russian PKM Machine Gun

YouTube - Firing the PKM

YouTube - m249 saw <- M249 SAW.

Even if he is giving full auto, the thing is quite controlable

MG3 : YouTube - 1200 rounds per minute!! MG-3 ShuetzenSchnur-Silver

I think someone forgot to turn "gobackonrecoil" to 1

-MuffinMaster, former [R-CON]

".....there's a life past those weapons you know." -[R-DEV]Gaz
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #2
Tim270
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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

You cannot deploy/latch on to a material like you can in Red Orchestra etc, the gun will always be floating.

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Old 03-25-2010, 11:35 AM   #3
l|Bubba|l

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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

He is referring to the recoil effect. It's not about the graphical issues with our current system.

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Old 03-25-2010, 01:11 PM   #4
Tim270
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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

Ah ok, so the op is saying recoil should push the weapon backwards rather than making it rise?

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Old 03-26-2010, 12:04 AM   #5
[k]MuffinMaster

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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

Exactly. The gun just should snap back into position after releasing the trigger.
This can be achiveb by chaning one value in the weapons tweak file.

-MuffinMaster, former [R-CON]

".....there's a life past those weapons you know." -[R-DEV]Gaz
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:37 AM   #6
Kill001

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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

Imma see how long this is discussed seriously before the devs say DISREGARD REALITY™, ACQUIRE GAMEPLAY with this face:






Nah, I'm just half-kidding

But does the DMR do the same also? Thought I'd bring it up
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:29 AM   #7
Chuc
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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

Quote:
Originally Posted by [k]MuffinMaster View Post
Exactly. The gun just should snap back into position after releasing the trigger.
This can be achiveb by chaning one value in the weapons tweak file.
Look at the files ingame, that value is already set to one. However the recoil values do provide a net upwards movement, so that is what would have to be changed.


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Old 03-26-2010, 07:05 AM   #8
[k]MuffinMaster

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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

I can see. It's this whats makes the barrel move upwards:

Quote:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0
EDIT:

While looking through the files I realized even more strangeness.

Compare the recoil of a M249 SAW (5.56mm NATO weight 4 g, Muzzle velocity= 915 m/s):

Quote:
Originally Posted by uslmg_m249deployed
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/7/-2/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-4/4/0

To the M-24 (7.62mm NATO weight 9.50 g, Muzzle velocity= 790 m/s):

Quote:
Originally Posted by idfsni_m24
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceUp CRD_UNIFORM/3.2/3.2/0
ObjectTemplate.recoil.recoilForceLeftRight CRD_UNIFORM/-1.2/1.2/1
As far as i can remember, the higher the value, the more the muzzle moves.
Is there any explanation, why a single shot from a sniper rifle with the force of app. 3,352 Joules
has LESS recoil than a single shot from a LMG with a energy of app. 1,767 Joules ?

Remember, the M249s weight is app. 10 kg (loaded)
The M-24 7.3 kg (with day optical sigh, sling swivels, carrying strap, fully loaded magazine)

Does this reflect reality™ ?

Another EDIT:

I found this website (sorry it's in geman) but I'll translate.

http://www.dr-gmuender.de/inforueckstoss.html#p30

Quote:
Obwohl das 8-g-Geschoss eine geringfügig höhere Mündungsenergie besitzt, ist die Rückstoßenergie niedriger. Das bedeutet, daß leichtere Geschosse bei gleicher Energie einen geringeren Rückstoß erzeugen.
Die Lab. 2 und 4 sind identisch, lediglich das Waffengewicht ist bei Nr. 4 um 25 % geringer. Die Rückstoßenergie der schwereren Waffe ist um 25 % niedriger. Die Rückstoßenergie ist also umgekehrt proportional zum Waffengewicht. Je leichter die Waffe, desto stärker der Rückstoß.
Translation: Even if the 8-g-bullet has a slightly higher muzzle velocity, the recoil energy is lower. This means, the lighter bullet with the same energy has a lighter recoil. Lab 2 and 4 are identical, only the weight of the weapon Nr. 4 is 25 % higher. The recoil energy of the heavier weapon is 25 % lower. Die recoil energy is reciprocal to the weapons weight. The lighter the weapon, the heavier the recoil.

-MuffinMaster, former [R-CON]

".....there's a life past those weapons you know." -[R-DEV]Gaz
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Last edited by [k]MuffinMaster; 03-26-2010 at 08:05 AM.. Reason: more things i was wondering.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:08 AM   #9
Th3Exiled
Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

@MuffinMaster

note: the following is based purely on previous knowledge, in-game experience with the weapons and logical deduction

The reason that the M249 has a higher recoil there than the m24 is because that is the base recoil. There is a modifier for when you have sighted in (clicked Right Mouse Button) which is multiplied by the base recoil. The M249 has a lower modifier than the m24, making it have less recoil than the M24 only once sighted in. The Automatic rifleman isn't supposed to effectively engage targets unsighted while in deployed mode in game; to achieve this the devs made the machine guns have a high amount of recoil in deployed while unsighted.

Exiled.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:02 AM   #10
Chuc
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Default Re: Deployed Machinegun Strangeness

I kinda wish you wouldn't throw around the term "reality™" so condescendingly.

Exiled is correct in that the real effective recoil values are that when sighted in, of which deployed weapons have a different modifier setting to counter the recoil when unsighted.

(IDF M24)
zoomModifier 0.3

which when zoomed in, multiplies the recoil values by that number 0.3, resulting in

0.96/0.96/0
-0.36/0.36/0.3

(M249 deployed)

zoomModifier 0.03

0.21/-0.06/0
-0.12/0.12/0

Which is roughly 1/3rd the intensity, though slightly below that because of other reasons..


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