project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > PR:BF2 Mod Forums > PR:BF2 Feedback > Infantry
22 Jan 2018, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Forum RulesDeveloper Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2017, 02:06 PM   #31
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

I've made a statement on the devblog page already, but kept it short seeing as the change was imminent(in contrast to the armour one). I haven't played that many rounds yet, but something did feel... off in terms of infantry fights due to the damage change.

My biggest concern with the damage system is the fact that it is both too deadly and not deadly enough for my liking, bare with me for a second there. Zwilling said what pushed him to do the change was that he felt that 7.62 didn't offer any real advantages over 5.56, a valid concern, but the update did nothing to address that but add a silly one-hit-kill zone for 7.62 to shoot at whilst enabling 7.62R and 5.56 to still two-hit in every body part up to 40m away(50m for 7.62R) considering how long it takes to take out a patch, apply it and receive the recovery. This will lead to a plethora of situations in which both combattants knock each other out "simultaneously", this has happened before but is a rather rare occurence. What drives me to say that this is too deadly is that a central piece of PR's gameplay has been the medic system, Zwilling thinks that causes people to act more careful, while my impression is that if I don't get killed in 2 bullets every time, I'll be sure to get myself patched back up to full because chances are that I'll be able to survive one more bullet the more HP I have. If a 7.62 two-shots me everywhere on ranges up to 350m then what's the point of having a medic or healing myself? It might seem paradox, but a medic is less valuable the deadlier the weapons.

On the flipside(why the damage isn't enough) we have first of all all those guns firing pistol calibers which were being made useless through this change to the point you wouldn't even want to have us try these out on regular kits. And seeing the chart I can understand why: A 9mm round is a 6(SIX!)-hit kill on an opponent a mere 50ms away! In the most optimal portion of the body, the upper legs! The lower legs and arms? A 7-hit kill. Torso? 8 hits. If we decrease the distance we end up at 4-5 hit kills, but wait, everything else two-shots us! So even in CQB(which we are supposed to excel at due to easier handling) we get curbstomped because the enemy needs half the bullets we do. Sidearms are completely useless, you might as well pull out the knife when the opponent is 30m away, far better chances to kill. And I'm only being slightly sarcastic here.
And it doesn't end there just yet, remember Falklands, remember Vietnam? The godlike PPSh is a 4-hit kill on the torso, while the M14 is a straight up oneshot. Sten and M3? Useless. And WW2 is going to end up just the same, the Kar98k is going to be much better than the Mp40, fucking LOL.

I have to ask you: Did honestly nobody think about this, as in the potential impact across theaters? Well Zwilling did "Remove M14 from the premises!"(but only if we deem it necessary I have a better idea. How about we think of the impact of our "realistic" change before we add it to the game and remove weapon diversity entirely? If you KNOW that a change is going to make an entire category of weapons useless, then maybe you shouldn't pitch it to us?

The second caliber that got "crapdated" is 5.45R. Everything past 150m is a 4-hit kill, but it's ok, we only sort of complained for 15 pages about 900 RPM v AK74M balance because that was close range. What better way to solve the issue by making the AK74M even worse?

ArkUTD: Do note this issue was resolved by the admin team and mats, thus this was closed
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: that's like 5% holocaust there
Frontliner is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 02:36 PM   #32
Bonecrusher76
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

As a frequent and very good PR sniper, here are my thoughts. I am not at all happy with the changes, and don't believe they accurately reflect the real world.

The whole concept of this patch as it relates to snipers is totally unrealistic. In the real world a military sniper going against an armored force would use a .50BMG, .300 WIN MAG, and/or armor penetrating ammo sufficient to penetrate the armor. The real world motto is "one shot one kill" and real world snipers would take whatever steps necessary to make that happen. They aren't generally training modern snipers to aim for the legs (or head), they are giving them equipment and ammunition sufficient to deal with armor.

The problem of requiring multiple sniper hits in PR was extensively discussed in another post, and it lead to all the sniper rifles being buffed to a one-shot-kill a few patches ago. Requiring multiple shots makes the sniper totally useless (and unrealistic in purpose) in PR, as someone can take many many rounds by going to a medic and getting healed, which is itself totally unrealistic.

The way the dynamics are after this latest patch, a sniper can chest shot, player gets healed by medic, leg shot, healed by medic, leg shot, patched from crate, head shot, revived and healed by medic. How is that at all realistic?

I applaud you for trying to adjust damages and ranges etc to more accurately reflect the real world projectiles, but the snipers were fine, and I think these changes are very bad for the overall game play. Again, if the snipers were somehow overpowered (I don't think they were) the way to nerf them is by increasing skill cap (bullet rise and drop), not by making them require multiple hits which patches and medics can (unrealistically) heal away.

Also, the reality of plate armor (especially steel armor) is that it would stop multiple rated rounds, so from a strict realism perspective it should stop ALL 9mm rounds, ALL buckshot, and many machine gun bursts, as well as all underrated sniper chest shots. The round either penetrates and causes massive internal damage, or it doesn't penetrate and (might) cause bruising. This new damage system, especially as it relates to snipers, isn't realistic, and makes it like vanilla BF2. And btw, 5.56 actually penetrates armor substantially BETTER than 7.62 (look it up) so this is actually backwards in the game now, from a view of strict realism.
Bonecrusher76 is offline
Last edited by Bonecrusher76; 04-24-2017 at 03:20 PM..
Old 04-24-2017, 02:54 PM   #33
DogACTUAL

DogACTUAL's Avatar
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

same cartridge, same damage = great, makes way more sense than before, plz keep that system no matter
what you change next (ofc account for different ammo types like AP and stuff and barrel length)


7.62 buff = great, finally incentive to use G3, well balanced against the AR 15 family and their ROF imo, also MMGs are supposed to be kick ass


buckshot and pistol/smg nerf =
(against unarmored opponent ofc, the values against body armour atm are justified imo)

are you kidding me?! you wanna tell me you can just shrug off a full load of buckshot center mass at close range and keep on walking?
i also wanna see you take 3x9mm to the chest and keep walking longer than a minute.
DogACTUAL is offline
Last edited by DogACTUAL; 04-24-2017 at 03:14 PM..
Old 04-24-2017, 03:38 PM   #34
shifty454
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

i like the change, for people that have a problem with the pistols not killing anything sorry but i didnt have that problem yesterday still manage to get kills with it no problem (yes you can headshot with the pistol).

shotgun: like ffg said shotgun seems to take couple more shot to opens doors , etc so yeah i can understand that they seem weak i didnt use it that much but still used it against players and manage to do good with it.

SMG: didnt use any yet except the mp5 so i cant make a good opinion yet on the matter.

Lmao at people crying that every map is broken now, really . I really dont understand
shifty454 is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 03:49 PM   #35
Jacksonez__

Jacksonez__'s Avatar
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonecrusher76 View Post
-snip-
Would be hilarious if the snipers in real life were advised to shoot enemy in the legs because our ammunition isn't that good for bodyshots

IMO snipers should get that 1 shot bodyshot kill.

Jacksonez__ is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 03:56 PM   #36
Wing Walker
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

So much bullsh!t so little time.

Anyway, all things now perform the closest to real life we have had.

The only thing I would argue is more research is needed on the .223 round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viirusiiseli View Post
Overall more lethality against unarmored targets will shift insurgency balance so it is even easier for blufor to attack and be a bit untouchable to insurgents with the help of scopes.
You don't know what you are talking about here.

The INS weapons now have an edge in their close range realm. Especially the FAL.

The bluefor weapons now need about 2 shots in an INS.

Each side has an distinct advantage, but the iron sight 30cals will own inside 75m. And the blufor outside 150m.

Where as before the 5.56mm's owned everywhere as well as had the capability to sit far off and Snipe people that don't have optics.

This defiantly a good balance for maps like FalijiaW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
And seeing the chart I can understand why: A 9mm round is a 6(SIX!)-hit kill on an opponent a mere 50ms away! In the most optimal portion of the body, the upper legs! The lower legs and arms? A 7-hit kill. Torso? 8 hits. If we decrease the distance we end up at 4-5 hit kills, but wait, everything else two-shots us! So even in CQB(which we are supposed to excel at due to easier handling) we get curbstomped because the enemy needs half the bullets we do.
First of all, research actual defesive encounters envolving 9mm and you will see the numbers you are complaining about are factual to real life statistics with the 9mm. So, good job DEVs!

Second, why the hell are you relying on the 9mm for CQB!? That is not for clearing a building!

BTW, a 9mm is not a 50 meter weapon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
are you kidding me?! you wanna tell me you can just shrug off a full load of buckshot center mass at close range and keep on walking?
Body armor would stop the shot pellets from penetrating the vest at all and into the person, and you think that means you should be instadead?

The shot also looses energy extremely fast when hitting a barrier. So its most effective at close range before the shot pattern spreads.

If you test it, you will find the shotgun is a one shot kill up close, and loses effectiveness as it goes down range, as it should.
Wing Walker is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 04:09 PM   #37
[R-CON]Chuva_RD
PR:BF2 Contributor
PR Server License Moderator

[R-CON]Chuva_RD's Avatar
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Walker View Post
If you test it, you will find the shotgun is a one shot kill up close, and loses effectiveness as it goes down range, as it should.
Shotgunning from 1m to any point on body except head do not kill, tested today.
[R-CON]Chuva_RD is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 04:22 PM   #38
Unarmed Civilian
PR Server License Moderator
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

The new system seems fine. Now we need to take a step back and take away some of the scopes that were added. Like, why should medics be carrying scopes? They are supposed to play defensively, and in many situations the medic kit is the last one active in a downed Squad, and trust me, you won't wish for a scope in a door to door fight. Breachers, LATs, Medics, none of them need a scope. It woulld make gameplay better with less "riflemen snipers".

I never got why PR doesn't use the BF2 feature of allowing more than two (STD and ALT) kit selections on the spawning screen. You could have Iron Sight, Red Dot, ACOG, Reflex, etc.


Edit: The shotgun nerf indeed needs a fix. Last night I had to shoot an INS 3 times within 5 meters away. Only his chest and head were visible, he was behind a window.
Unarmed Civilian is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 04:45 PM   #39
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Walker View Post
First of all, research actual defesive encounters envolving 9mm and you will see the numbers you are complaining about are factual to real life statistics with the 9mm. So, good job DEVs!
I couldn't care less about real life. What I care about is that entire categories of weapons were turned into utter trash so much so that they didn't want us to know how badly the SMGs are now compared to everything else besides Shotguns and Pistols which are at the same level of suckiness.

Quote:
Second, why the hell are you relying on the 9mm for CQB!? That is not for clearing a building!
Well, maybe it's the fact that a 9mm weapon is designed to be only good for close encounters and the update made 9mm totally pointless.

And of course a 9mm is designed to clear a building, the fact that armies don't clear buildings with 9mms anymore is that they are carrying assault rifles which do a good enough job at it while not sacrificing combat capabilities at 200m and beyond which most SMGs do due to their caliber.

MP5 stormstroopers were a cheesy strat, I'll give you that, but you wouldn't underestimate their capabilities in reality "just because it's only a 9mm weapon" if you had to go up against it. Reality aside, it's a game, I think weapon balance is more important and the update broke that.

Quote:
BTW, a 9mm is not a 50 meter weapon...
No, you right, it's a cartridge, and there are plenty of 9mm weapons that can go more than double the distance with good enough precision.

ArkUTD: Do note this issue was resolved by the admin team and mats, thus this was closed
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: that's like 5% holocaust there
Frontliner is offline
Old 04-24-2017, 05:15 PM   #40
Rabbit

Rabbit's Avatar
Default Re: Infantry weapon damage changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonez__ View Post
Would be hilarious if the snipers in real life were advised to shoot enemy in the legs because our ammunition isn't that good for bodyshots

IMO snipers should get that 1 shot bodyshot kill.

Rabbit is online now
Closed Thread


Tags
damage, infantry, weapon
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:35 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. ©vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
All Content Copyright ©2004 - 2015, Project Reality.