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Old 01-16-2017, 05:03 PM   #41
sweedensniiperr
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Default Re: Shotguns

That was a satisfying video.

Was good that this was brought up since it something I really don't think about. And weird that it hasn't before. Agree with rebalance.

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Old 01-16-2017, 08:26 PM   #42
Vista
Default Re: Shotguns

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Originally Posted by gwa1hir View Post
best part of the video "user entered your channel" "HEHE" i wonder which faggot this was
Hehe, probably some weirdo I dunno
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:17 PM   #43
Murphy

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Default Re: Shotguns

So walking deviation is the advantage a Shotgun has? Why not keep it that way but adjust the drop-off values to bottom out at 40 meters? If we add rifle levels of deviation to shotguns they will serve no purpose other than opening doors, why not accept the shotgun has unique values and is a different tool for a specific purpose. If we're on about walking deviation I could single out the MP5 as well, that gun is pretty much deadly accurate while on the move beyond 50 meters. An Mp5 would out gun a Shotgun in CQB every time, and there are other SMGs that respond just as well while on the move.

I'm not saying Shotguns do not need adjusting, I would just like to see it stay somewhat "OP" in very close quarters as it is very underpowered in fights over 100 meters. The video only shows fights within 30 meters, and it is quite anecdotal. I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.

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Old 01-17-2017, 06:12 AM   #44
Mouthpiece
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Default Re: Shotguns

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Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
snip
No, you can't go running and gunning with any weapon, just the shotgun.
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:43 AM   #45
inb4banned
Default Re: Shotguns

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Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
So walking deviation is the advantage a Shotgun has? Why not keep it that way but adjust the drop-off values to bottom out at 40 meters? If we add rifle levels of deviation to shotguns they will serve no purpose other than opening doors, why not accept the shotgun has unique values and is a different tool for a specific purpose. If we're on about walking deviation I could single out the MP5 as well, that gun is pretty much deadly accurate while on the move beyond 50 meters. An Mp5 would out gun a Shotgun in CQB every time, and there are other SMGs that respond just as well while on the move.

I'm not saying Shotguns do not need adjusting, I would just like to see it stay somewhat "OP" in very close quarters as it is very underpowered in fights over 100 meters. The video only shows fights within 30 meters, and it is quite anecdotal. I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.
With any SMG or a rifle you're still very ineffective when not aiming down sights. That's the number 1 problem with the shotgun. You can move faster and aren't faced with the awkward: "Do I rely on RNG and hipfire spray or do I take the time to aim down sights letting him see and shoot me first." That's a big deal.

Then there's the point where breachers have a rifle anyway, so anything you can do I can too + way more in CQB.

Of course a good player can get kills with any weapon, especially on unaware enemies. But the gap between hipfire 1 tapping people with little to no risk and either taking more time to ads and deviate or relying on RNG is huge.

These kills aren't cherry picked at all, I simply put all of the shotgun kills I made over the weekend in there, I played 0 rounds of Dragon Fly or any other map where clearing buildings is a thing. I did kill 6 people covering Mosque on Muttrah but my GPU drivers crashed and I lost the recording.
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:06 AM   #46
schakal811
Default Re: Shotguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
I'm sure majority of those kills could be scored with ANY WEAPON IN THE GAME. If you're going to post a video crying about how a weapon is op and cherry pick the situations shown you're doing it wrong, try the same thing in a controlled environment with a scientific approach instead of just doing a "wrecked unaware enemies" kill montage video.
No you are wrong here, he wanted to point out that you dont have to ADS with shotguns, with any other gun it would be a lucky shot killing them hipfire. With shotguns it doesnt matter, cause you hit the center everytime. Not sure how u use shotguns but u dont have to ADS at all. In RL there is no way that you can hipfire with a shotgun and kill people on a daily basis.

Is it possible to lower the deviation quickly while ADS?
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:26 AM   #47
viirusiiseli
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Default Re: Shotguns

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Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
This video shows very little to no situations where most guns couldn't have been used to do the same in a very similar time frame. In addition, rarely do situations in this game allow the shotgun to perform significantly better or faster than another gun used similarly.

While the shotgun has zero deviation while walking, it does only have 6-9 rounds and doesn't always OHK. Rifles have more rounds and even with their deviation, you are able to produce similar results in most situations.

Where the shotgun does admittedly outperform nearly every single other gun ingame is extremely close combat and fast situations. This is exactly what shotguns advantages are in real life and are supposed to be in the game.

And as far as realism goes, hip-firing guns in real life is generally far more accurate than it is in game right now. Up to about 25 meters in real life it is not especially hard to fire a rifle either from the hip or the shoulder while not aiming down the sights.

In fact, having experience in military live fire drills with a 7.62 AK variant, I would always rather shoulder the rifle but not aim down the sights to fire unless the range was more than 25 meters or the target would be very small. Aiming by only looking down the barrel is much quicker and works as well. It makes beginning to fire a lot quicker and you are able to maintain a faster level of movement while engaging, unlike while aiming down the sights.

I would assume the same goes for shotguns, although I have no experience in firing them in such situations.

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Last edited by viirusiiseli; 01-17-2017 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:54 AM   #48
inb4banned
Default Re: Shotguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by viirusiiseli View Post
This video shows very little to no situations where most guns couldn't have been used to do the same in a very similar time frame. In addition, rarely do situations in this game allow the shotgun to perform significantly better or faster than another gun used similarly.
Oh please, at
0:14 he'd be behind the corner before I'd finish firing first few show because I'd have to stop and aim down sights, at 0:18 it'd be the classic "do I take the time to ads and have him shoot first or do I rely on RNG and hipfire"
0:23 you could never just ads and kill the guy instantly
0:25 you'd have to wait for deviation exposing yourself to the others or you'd shoot and the guy would go prone before you could kill him because you'd have too much deviation
0:58 how long would it take you to kill that guy with a rifle...
1:02 he catches me off guard while I'm searching for the medic kit and he can't even shoot before he dies
2:00 he actually died after the 1st shot (can't hear it here, but can on original), which gun can you do that with?
2:37 good luck doing that with a rifle

And all others are pretty much the same. People are almost always unaware of me because I can hear them well and they tend to be oblivious, always only covering 1 thing. I'm sure you realise PR player standard is very poor atm.

This is retarded gameplay and should be reconsidered. Next stop: OP ARs
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:11 PM   #49
[R-DEV]Mats391
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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Default Re: Shotguns

We investigated shotguns and found that their deviation is not working as intended. This is a BF2 issue and we are looking at ways to resolve it.


Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:51 PM   #50
Vista
Default Re: Shotguns

Funny how the tone of the thread changed when he posted that video
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