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24 Oct 2017, 00:00:00 (PRT)
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:57 PM   #1
Teunvd
Default Dogfighting and flares

Hey, Since the new flare update (or missle) is dogfighting not fun anymore... If you only lock once, you will kill right away.. The flares just dont work anymore, doesn't matter how you flare... Spamming doesn't work, with delay doesn't work, nothing works...

Is there maybe a way that i dont know? (pls dont be a troll and say i suck in flying cas.. This is a serious thread..).. I hope in the new update it is different, so you can do good, long, and nice dogfights..
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:57 PM   #2
Hunter291
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

flares work you use them wrong
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:13 PM   #3
PBAsydney

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter291 View Post
flares work you use them wrong
Nah, they don't really work right now, especially against ground AA which has a disgustingly high kill rate against flaring aircraft.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:00 AM   #4
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

It's true, once the aircraft was locked and a missile is away, the chances of a hit are very high, bordering on near certainty. Wouldn't be that big of a deal though if all aircraft had more flares available (or the option to dispense only one flare at a time).
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:21 AM   #5
Lugi
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

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Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
It's true, once the aircraft was locked and a missile is away, the chances of a hit are very high, bordering on near certainty. Wouldn't be that big of a deal though if all aircraft had more flares available (or the option to dispense only one flare at a time).
Doesn't aircraft IRL always dump more than one flare? Cause one flare only reduces your chance of getting hit by 1/2.

Also I always thought the number of flares is pretty realistic after they upped the number like 3 or 4 years ago.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:40 AM   #6
CAS_ual_TY
PR Server License Administrator

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

I might be wrong on this, but from what I can see the missile either hits your jet, or the latest set of flares you have popped. And since a lot of people spam them until the lock is either gone or the jet is gone, the missile will hit flares that are still very close to the jet -> jet gets hit by splash

Havent tested it much since the update, but the times I did fly I have seen that.

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Old 10-14-2017, 11:44 AM   #7
Lugi
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAS_ual_TY View Post
I might be wrong on this, but from what I can see the missile either hits your jet, or the latest set of flares you have popped. And since a lot of people spam them until the lock is either gone or the jet is gone, the missile will hit flares that are still very close to the jet -> jet gets hit by splash

Havent tested it much since the update, but the times I did fly I have seen that.
Yup, its probably this. You just gotta do what pilots IRL do - using countermeasures right after attacking or even while approaching the target. I've seen this in a video of A10s training strafing runs. They attack, pull up and drop flares.

(take everything I say on this matter with a grain of salt as I'm no expert on military aviation)
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:12 PM   #8
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Yep and that's why i want more flares. Because right now preventitive flaring is the safest way to go, but current flare numbers are not enough to stay in action for a reasonable duration because of that. Especially helicopters because they queef out many at once and use them up too fast.

IRL a greater number of flares in the air might be more effective, but ingame a single flare will disrupt the aa aquisition process just as well as multiple do.
Even IRL if you watch some combat footage you will see some attack helicopters just dumping one or two flares.

IIRC real aircraft generally can select how many flares to dispence at once. And yes, the missile hitting the closest flare might have something to do with the great effectiveness of AA. I did some experiments and even if you just lock a flare and fire there is a good chance the missile will go for the actual aircraft and hit.
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:37 PM   #9
Aleon
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Interestingly enough I had no problems with flaring missiles with helicopters since the patch. For Jets, it's a lot different, I've killed and got killed pretty much exclusively with a single lock. Could be variance, as I don't CAS that often, but it definitely feels like pre-emptive flaring is the only way to flare for jets at the moment. I don't mind this at all for ground AA, since you get to chose when you put yourself in the way of harm, but it's kinda lame that first lock wins every dogfight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugi View Post
Also I always thought the number of flares is pretty realistic after they upped the number like 3 or 4 years ago.
If DCS is worth anything as a source (and if I recall correctly), CAS aircraft may carry flares and chaffs in the triple digits. But I don't really think realism should be a concern here, aircraft are quite special in PR anyway.

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Old 10-14-2017, 11:09 PM   #10
FFG
Project Reality Beta Tester

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

If I remember what mats told me when we were testing AA and Flares, that the engine can only show 4 "heat signatures" for AA missiles. So if you pop too many flares, it will attract the AA missile towards the Jet.

The current state of AA and Jets. If you're using your jet correctly to focus Anti Air, you can be extremely powerful. If you're YOLO XD rushing to kill tanks, your gonna die.

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