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Old 10-24-2017, 07:48 AM   #41
PBAsydney

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danesh_italiano View Post
True!

#ReverseAATo1.3.9
#MakeAANonGreatAgain

and dog fights will be fun again...
Honestly, as someone who mainly rolls in armor and occasionally does some CAS I never had an issue with 1.3.9 AA, whether from ground of air perspective, the balance was fine.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:27 PM   #42
Danesh_italiano
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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBAsydney View Post
Honestly, as someone who mainly rolls in armor and occasionally does some CAS I never had an issue with 1.3.9 AA, whether from ground of air perspective, the balance was fine.
Yeah... AA was fine on 1.3.9. The problem at that time was the missile spam and redirected AA. Since there is no more missile spam and not much redirected AA (AA now explodes on flares) the new problem is dying very quiclky/easly by aa. Jet pilots dont need skills any more.. just lock and fire = gg

So sei que nada sei.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:14 PM   #43
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
"[...] The long term outlook is that the ‘Kill Probability=1’ AAM will remain an illusory goal,[...]"
Well yeah... common sense already tells us that no A2A missile will have a hit probability of 100%. We already knew that and it is no different ingame right now, missiles still miss jets quite often, just not nearly as often as before. That article is just stating the obvious, but it is no proof of A2A missiles failing on the broad spectrum and forcing gun engagements.

Quote:
This article shows the performance of the AIM-9X missile
The russian flare spoof story seems to be fake news (unless the pilots are lying). Seems like the missile was just a dud, possibly because of bad maintenance (took me a while to find that article again):
Here's The Definitive Account Of The Syrian Su-22 Shoot Down From The Pilots Themselves - The Drive

Even if the flare story was true, the sample size is so small that no proper conclusion on actual overall missile performance could be made, for all we know the peformance could actually be stellar, but this one particular missile failed for some reason. So anecdotal evidence at best.

Keep in mind the second missile fired (AIM 120) managed to destroy the jet well under its advertised minimum engagement
distance, if you wanted to you could actually take that as 'proof' of how awesome and reliable the AIM 120 is.
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Last edited by DogACTUAL; 10-24-2017 at 03:45 PM..
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:48 PM   #44
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

To the people saying the new dogfights do not require skill anymore, can you elaborate why exactly you think that is the case?
Wasn't the meta always that who sees the other jet first wins?
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:18 PM   #45
Hunter291
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

"Dogfighting is a waste of assets" - somefag
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:12 AM   #46
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Everything others said about flare spamming attracting missiles towards the aircraft is true. If a missile is launched at you, try to just launch flares once or twice at maximum and then wait at least 3 seconds before launching other flares.

If you spam out flares continuously the missile will get attracted to the newest set of flares and splash your aircraft.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:17 PM   #47
Jack_Howitzer
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

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Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
To the people saying the new dogfights do not require skill anymore, can you elaborate why exactly you think that is the case?
Wasn't the meta always that who sees the other jet first wins?
Are you trolling because you need to incite arguments or just because you do not fully comprehend this game? I'm not sure so I will answer this time.

Upping missile hit percentage DRASTICALLY, while keeping it as easy to gain lock-on as previously. What will it cause?

Answer: people to be able to gain lock-on in matter of seconds, firing one (1) missile and getting the kill.

Instead of missing possibly all the missiles and having to resort to using gun which many people couldn't use as it required moderate skill.

Not even mentioning the fact that spraying AA in the sky when seeing a blink of enemy jet will score a kill maybe 50% of the time, thus rendering CAS more or less useless.
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:59 AM   #48
SWAT-
Unhappy Re: Dogfighting and flares

Just gonna throw this here...



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Last edited by SWAT-; 10-28-2017 at 07:24 AM..
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Old 10-28-2017, 04:39 PM   #49
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Howitzer View Post
-snip-
Launching flares after you hear the missile warning requires no skill at all.
Knowing when and how much to preflare in certain situations on the other hand does.
And even now i still get to use the gun quite often.

Even before the update it usually was, whoever sees the other jet first wins.
Better missile performance just speeds up that process and reduces situations where a jet dodges all your missiles without any skill just by chance, even though you deserve the kill since you spotted him first or outmanouvered him.

Good situational awareness and spotting ability is one of the greatest skills to have in PR dogfights, so why shouldn't it be rewarded?

Through testing i found that if you hear a missile warning and then use flares smartly instead of just spamming them your chance of dodging the missile is around above 50%.
With preflaring your chances get much better, although there is still that thing where you can shoot the flare and the missile might track the aircraft instead as seen in the footage, which should be fixed if possible.

Agree on ground AA being too OP though, very apparent if you test it and from the footage posted here, especially helicopters are just sitting ducks.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #50
viirusiiseli
Banned
Default Re: Dogfighting and flares

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
Launching flares after you hear the missile warning requires no skill at all.
Knowing when and how much to preflare in certain situations on the other hand does.
And even now i still get to use the gun quite often.

Even before the update it usually was, whoever sees the other jet first wins.
Better missile performance just speeds up that process and reduces situations where a jet dodges all your missiles without any skill just by chance, even though you deserve the kill since you spotted him first or outmanouvered him.

Good situational awareness and spotting ability is one of the greatest skills to have in PR dogfights, so why shouldn't it be rewarded?

Through testing i found that if you hear a missile warning and then use flares smartly instead of just spamming them your chance of dodging the missile is around above 50%.
With preflaring your chances get much better, although there is still that thing where you can shoot the flare and the missile might track the aircraft instead as seen in the footage, which should be fixed if possible.

Agree on ground AA being too OP though, very apparent if you test it and from the footage posted here, especially helicopters are just sitting ducks.
You are only talking about post 1.0, a.k.a. the most cancerous patches PR has ever seen CAS wise. You didn't play during 0.98 and before, when CAS jet or heli dogfights made sense and were more about skill than blind luck as it is now.

You should maybe idk go on a pre 1.0 CAS montage marathon on YouTube and maybe then you wouldn't sound so unwise all the time.

0.98 and before, skill, preparation and looking around like crazy actually helped you win dogfights whether it was heli or jet. Then came Jafar_Ironclad who removed all the speed from helis along with AA missiles, made cannons OP and made the first steps toward effing up the jet AA fights.

This resulted in what we see constantly in current games: dogfights are a 50/50 win no matter your skill level due to lowered speed (can't run away or win by skillful maneuvering), buffed cannon (taking 1 or 2 hits means you've pretty much lost the fight). Often this results in the worse crew killing the better crew, because simply going to 1500 alt and waiting wins the fight and only the noobs are patient enough to waste half a round for this (the one thing that Jafar tried to remove from PR by taking away heli AA, he made infinitely worse).

So then the worse crew kills the better one, and 90% of the times they die within 10 minutes because the first ground target they try to go for, ends up getting them killed because they're bad.

That's why every single good CAS pilot stopped using it and moved on to armor instead. Only ones are left are the tryhards who might stay alive for 40 minutes to get 15 kills.

DEVs reached too far with 1.0 and failed as a result, because they broke the long-standing tradition of making small fixes and changes, that worked for so long.
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