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Old 08-20-2017, 11:20 AM   #31
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Then i stand corrected. Thanks for improving the code and making missiles and flares work properly and more reliably. Altough some updates before the unpredictable nature of flares and missiles actually worked quite well balance wise imo, even if a system like that was not intended.

Also, i did some research, turns out that some IR missiles in fact explode on flares, i guess it depends on the specific trigger mechanism.

Can you please post the new values for missiles and flares, like trigger radius, explosion radius and how long flares burn?

Some questions:

Would it be possible if you made flares burn for longer and make missiles more effective in return to balance it out? For more authenticity, because i think irl most flares in military use burn longer than they do ingame right now. Of course irl there is variation, some burn like only 5 sec, others 20 sec. or more.

Would it be possible to give us the ability to only pop one flare at a time? Or maybe even the ability to select how many flares to pop? Maybe multiple weapon slots for flares with different amounts that get popped at a time?

Are you open to increase the distance flares get propelled away from aircraft for all aircraft to authentic levels?
Meaning jets too. In turn maybe adjust trigger radius and explosion radius of missiles to balance it out again?

I would really appreciate to get an answer because i think changes like these would improve balance and authenticity, although maybe i didn't account for other stuff.

And to other players, what is your opinion of the newest update, is the flare and missile balance good now?
After some testing i guess it is quite alright now, but could still use some improvements imo.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:39 AM   #32
viirusiiseli
Banned
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

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Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
I am starting to get the feeling viirus is some fat overweight finnish kid.
Where are the mods with their warnings for attitude problems or unhelpful post content when you need them

MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]UTurista View Post
What?? You're saying that after the fix, players will be able to defend themselves against CAS?
The real problem is MANPAD. I can take dying to AAV or static AA, they are problems you can avoid or address during a game. You cannot avoid 2 MANPADs which, if used carefully and from good positions, have no way of being killed by CAS. They can sit outside of a mainbase out of reach by most infantry and hide in a building or bunker you cannot destroy with CAS, and shoot out of them.

Handheld AA can also 1shot all helis and jets up to 1500m distance. It used to have 600m locking limitation to show that IRL, MANPAD has more limited range than its static, or vehicle mounted counterparts. Rightfully so.

Now every team has 2 near-impossible to find or avoid AAs that can be anywhere on the map with no such limitations. They can also engage fast and high flying jets, UNLIKE IRL.

Manpad locking distance should be limited to 600m as they used to be. They should also be limited to 1 kit per team, just like the HAT.

It is such an unrealistically powerful asset that shouldn't be the primary way to kill CAS, like it is now. First choice should always be AAVs and built AAs. The gameplay mechanics should guide towards that choice.
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Last edited by viirusiiseli; 08-21-2017 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:27 AM   #33
fecht_niko
Banned
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by viirusiiseli View Post
The real problem is MANPAD. I can take dying to AAV or static AA, they are problems you can avoid or address during a game. You cannot avoid 2 MANPADs which, if used carefully and from good positions, have no way of being killed by CAS. They can sit outside of a mainbase out of reach by most infantry and hide in a building or bunker you cannot destroy with CAS, and shoot out of them.
Simple solution: Change gamefiles, delete bushes and other blocking stuff, kill MANPAD first and than rape the rest.

If all CAS maps would have AAVs I'd agree with only 1 MANPAD tbh.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:46 AM   #34
Unit-RX400
Supporting Member
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecht_niko View Post

If all CAS maps would have AAVs I'd agree with only 1 MANPAD tbh.
2 is fine. You'd have to consider the "Tambov's variable" (also known as Murphy's Law).. There is always some peculiar reason why 1 AA would be unavailable.. and as a result CAS woud be able to rape away in solitude..

Yesterday my squad tried to get rid of some helo buzzing around us while we played Insurgency.. with zero success because nobody could get MANPAD's

IRL Russian MANPADs have up to 5km attack ceiling..

Ukrainian-Russian war has so far been entirely without CAS (except very early of the conflict) because there are simply too many MANPADs on the ground, watching the skies.. Would not be really something exclusive to see the same ingame..
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Last edited by Unit-RX400; 08-21-2017 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:32 PM   #35
Jacksonez__

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Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit-RX400 View Post
2 is fine. You'd have to consider the "Tambov's variable" (also known as Murphy's Law).. There is always some peculiar reason why 1 AA would be unavailable.. and as a result CAS woud be able to rape away in solitude..

Yesterday my squad tried to get rid of some helo buzzing around us while we played Insurgency.. with zero success because nobody could get MANPAD's

IRL Russian MANPADs have up to 5km attack ceiling..

Ukrainian-Russian war has so far been entirely without CAS (except very early of the conflict) because there are simply too many MANPADs on the ground, watching the skies.. Would not be really something exclusive to see the same ingame..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rainian_crisis

Quote:
... 16 shot down or destroyed on the ground
I guess they learnt their lesson after 2014 since 29 August 2014 was the last time pro-Russians shot down a Ukrainian aircraft

So yes, manpands are indeed effective and scary irl

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Old 08-22-2017, 05:58 AM   #36
Singh408
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecht_niko View Post
Change gamefiles, delete bushes and other blocking stuff, .
comon now man lmao
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:51 AM   #37
fecht_niko
Banned
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

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Originally Posted by Singh408 View Post
comon now man lmao
Pre 1.4 it was possible to change gamefiles and delete smoke, walls, bushes, gras, ....
You could also get more fps to get better recordings lmao
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:09 AM   #38
viirusiiseli
Banned
Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecht_niko View Post
If all CAS maps would have AAVs I'd agree with only 1 MANPAD tbh.
It would be a much better solution because it would actually require some of that teamwork and being careful from AA troops that people want out of CAS crews. Using MANPADs requires none


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit-RX400 View Post
There is always some peculiar reason why 1 AA would be unavailable.. and as a result CAS woud be able to rape away in solitude..
They would have AAV(s). And there's only 1 HAT a team, HATs are still killing armor all the time. Your point?
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:08 AM   #39
TBob

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Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
Would it be possible if you made flares burn for longer and make missiles more effective in return to balance it out? For more authenticity, because i think irl most flares in military use burn longer than they do ingame right now. Of course irl there is variation, some burn like only 5 sec, others 20 sec. or more.

Would it be possible to give us the ability to only pop one flare at a time? Or maybe even the ability to select how many flares to pop? Maybe multiple weapon slots for flares with different amounts that get popped at a time?

Are you open to increase the distance flares get propelled away from aircraft for all aircraft to authentic levels?
Meaning jets too. In turn maybe adjust trigger radius and explosion radius of missiles to balance it out again?

Flares ingame are active for 8 seconds, about twice as long as their animation would lead you to believe. All the data on flares I could find pointed to a typical burn time of 3-4 seconds, I'm not sure where you're getting 20 seconds from.

It should be possible to have different slots for number of flares on transport helis, the main problem I can think of is consistency of the controls across different vehicles.

Current flare deployment patterns are pretty far from realistic - helicopters typically release flares to the side and forward, not towards the rear - but you have to account for the limitations of the BF2 seeking mechanisms.

One thing I'm curious about is that the new missiles seem to have a detonation distance much further than the explosion radius. Obviously AA can still kill things so I was just wondering about the mechanics behind how the numbers work in practice.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:46 AM   #40
[R-DEV]Mats391
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
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PR Server License Moderator

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Default Re: AA missiles after lastest update

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBob View Post
Flares ingame are active for 8 seconds, about twice as long as their animation would lead you to believe. All the data on flares I could find pointed to a typical burn time of 3-4 seconds, I'm not sure where you're getting 20 seconds from.

It should be possible to have different slots for number of flares on transport helis, the main problem I can think of is consistency of the controls across different vehicles.

Current flare deployment patterns are pretty far from realistic - helicopters typically release flares to the side and forward, not towards the rear - but you have to account for the limitations of the BF2 seeking mechanisms.

One thing I'm curious about is that the new missiles seem to have a detonation distance much further than the explosion radius. Obviously AA can still kill things so I was just wondering about the mechanics behind how the numbers work in practice.
No one touched the way flares deploy for ages While it would be bit tedious task, changing them to deploy to side and forward would easily be possible.
Can you link sources that flares should only be effective for 4 seconds?


Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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