project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > PR:BF2 Mod Forums > PR:BF2 Feedback > Vehicles
19 Jan 2018, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Forum RulesDeveloper Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-15-2016, 08:26 AM   #41
[R-DEV]Mats391
PR:BF2 Lead Developer
Supporting Member
PR Server License Moderator

[R-DEV]Mats391's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidfire93 View Post
so the HUD speed on Trans and Attack heli are wrong ?
They are roughly 2.7x of what it actually is. #JustBF2Things


Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
[R-DEV]Mats391 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 09:13 AM   #42
viirusiiseli
Banned
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Yeah lets not forget the lynx had a max speed of around 1200
viirusiiseli is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 09:32 AM   #43
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
Supporting Member

[R-DEV]Rhino's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by viirusiiseli View Post
Yeah lets not forget the lynx had a max speed of around 1200
Ye, it could break the sound barrier

[R-DEV]Rhino is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 12:12 PM   #44
X-Alt

X-Alt's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino View Post
When we where implementing the Zhi-9WA with HJ-8s, which are Wire Guided SACLOS missiles, we did look at it again but decided that it was far too hard to hit the target with it and when with the "point and click, TV / Laser Guided" method all the other choppers have.

There are quite a few choppers ingame which should have that system so we could look into it, but it would also mean the attack helis where no longer mirror balanced if the Havok and Zhi-10W got it.



Totally ignore the BF2 HUD speed, its totally off, hence why Mats has made a new python script to read the true speed for testing.
Zhi-10W has the HJ-10, which is TV guided. The Havok, being a helicopter with the most amount of ATGMs on-board, would be assymetrically balanced with the Apache\Other western helis in that sense.

AH-64:
More Cannon ammo
LG\LT

Havok:
Wire Guided (could be good for curving things)
Fast Firing Cannon
16x Missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
And it is why every other person hates cas and it can end up with getting a ridiculous kdr. In my opinion for what PR is and the map sizes available there is no good way to make cas realistic and balanced.



Actually if I were still a dev I would continue to lobby to remove cas choppers.
Is it because people suffer from one of the following?

1. Inability to aim a tank cannon
2. Inability to aim a guided ATGM
3. Inability to operate AA and AAVs
4. Inability to operate an APC
5. Inability to use a guided HAT
X-Alt is offline
Last edited by X-Alt; 02-15-2016 at 02:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 12:33 PM   #45
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
Supporting Member

[R-DEV]Rhino's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Alt View Post
Zhi-10W has the HJ-10, which is TV guided.
Ye, but it has HJ-8 pods modelled onto it, which it can also fire but this is one of the reasons we say HJ-10 on the HUD

[R-DEV]Rhino is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 05:34 PM   #46
Rabbit

Rabbit's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalianplant[x64] View Post
Thank god you are not an R-DEV anymore.With that mentality and low amount of game knowledge regarding attack helicopters/attack helicopter threats you would just ruin the mod even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Alt View Post
Is it because people suffer from one of the following?

1. Inability to aim a tank cannon
2. Inability to aim a guided ATGM
3. Inability to operate AA and AAVs
4. Inability to operate an APC
5. Inability to use a guided HAT
Its because cas choppers are used in a highly unrealistic way. In PR they are used as what can best be compared to the UAV that can also fly through city streets. Now while I am more than willing to accept the unrealistic physics/ rotor blade collisions because of bf2/gameplay the fact that cas choppers are used as high altitude loitering death machines is unrealistic and not that fun for either cas or receiving end.

CAS choppers CAN be so OP in the right hands that their spawn times are not shit. If you want to play CAS and lose it because some idiot crashes and leaves the server you are screwed. usually you have to wait (large layer excluded) 1/3 of the round to even get it which sucks for people who like cas, and in that way I feel for them.

HOWEVER you should not be able to go 100:0, looking at you viirus; and while you are undoutably one of if not the best CAS chopper pilot in PR, you should not be going 100:0 as that is what causes the hate and the spawn time nerf.

In real life choppers fly low and engage low, for a number of reasons. Radar detection and easy for AAA to find its target, flying high means you are silhouetted against the sky for longer, one reason why crashhawks in Iraq were getting shot down and they lowered their altitude limit.
Army changes helicopter flight routes to avoid attacks - www.smh.com.au (not the best source but fuck you its about 13 years old)

While they are certainly not the same helicopter or same class I will point out the US ARMY field manual for operating attack/recon helicopters. In section 3-11 you can refference attack types and firing positions, it recommends staying low but still high enough for you to not kick shit up. Section 3-13 that explains generally fire from far, not from high. (yes it is a limitation of PR that you cannot fire from 5 miles away.) Low visability (fits bf2's stupid low view distance), fly in do your shit and get the hell out.

FM: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...12/fm1-112.pdf

And finally another reason you do not fly high.

You don't want to get in the way of these fuckers when they are working/fighting against you.

So, I don't like them because how they are implemented and used in PR is WAY different from real life and only causes more issues for both people who like to play with it (long spawn time) and those who are in its sights (slaughter you and cannot do that much to stop it).

Rabbit is offline
Last edited by Rabbit; 02-15-2016 at 05:43 PM.. Reason: edited for dalianplant[x64] thinking I have no knowlage
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 06:12 PM   #47
STompa

STompa's Avatar
Send a message via Skype™ to STompa
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
HOWEVER you should not be able to go 100:0, looking at you viirus; and while you are undoutably one of if not the best CAS chopper pilot in PR, you should not be going 100:0 as that is what causes the hate and the spawn time nerf.
I mean you "can't cure stupid" in PR. No matter how nerfed cas or anything is people will always be able to achieve high kill scores on occasion if the circumstances are right. I've seen 100+ kills in armor more often than cas for that matter. Even saw GoldenEagle get over 100 kills with a sniper kit on muttra, ask him if you don't believe me. Skilled players vs "headless chickens" will produce the same result in PR no matter what. One or two incidents of what is possible to achieve shouldn't decide how to balance the game imo. It's the total average that matters, no? Can be compared to saying "I saw a good pilot get 0 kills a few times -> buff cas".

"You on the other hand feel that it is fine to abuse the poor bf2 engine to the maximum just for that few lousy kills and score, where we restrain from this because we want more immersive experience. " - *NwA* Alchemist
STompa is offline
Last edited by STompa; 02-15-2016 at 06:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 06:21 PM   #48
Rabbit

Rabbit's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by STompa View Post
I mean you "can't cure stupid" in PR. No matter how nerfed cas or anything is people will always be able to achieve high kill scores on occasion if the circumstances are right. I've seen 100+ kills in armor more often than cas for that matter. Even saw GoldenEagle get over 100 kills with a sniper kit on muttra, ask him if you don't believe me. Skilled players vs "headless chickens" will produce the same result in PR no matter what. One or two incidents of what is possible to achieve shouldn't decide how to balance the game imo. It's the total average that matters no? Can be compared to saying "I saw a good pilot get 0 kills a few times -> buff cas".
Right, I am not saying it is correct, but when people report things to the forums it is usually extremes and usually you do not get middle of the road people posting. So when you have people like Viirus getting 100:0 with the cas chopper you say "wow it is OP" so the spawn time gets nerfed. What I am saying is change how it plays, try and push players to use it how it is really used, but that is hard considering it is usually used at low level 5 miles away. The "middle ground" would be trying to get players to use it how the field manual says it operates in low visibility. Issue with this is forcing players to do something for sake of realism is hard and quite often unpopular, which is why I think only light cas choppers belong in PR.

Rabbit is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 07:28 PM   #49
[F|H]Zackyx
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
Right, I am not saying it is correct, but when people report things to the forums it is usually extremes and usually you do not get middle of the road people posting. So when you have people like Viirus getting 100:0 with the cas chopper you say "wow it is OP" so the spawn time gets nerfed. What I am saying is change how it plays, try and push players to use it how it is really used, but that is hard considering it is usually used at low level 5 miles away. The "middle ground" would be trying to get players to use it how the field manual says it operates in low visibility. Issue with this is forcing players to do something for sake of realism is hard and quite often unpopular, which is why I think only light cas choppers belong in PR.
Im just going to copy paste one of my comments on mats video :

Quote:
I really don't understand, you want us to believe that CAS is the problem while the lack of skill of this community is the real problem. Is it my fault if people are retarded ? Yesterday Viirus and Me got 60+ kills in 10/15 minuts on Mutrah by hovering above WEST CITY CENTER !!! No AA , No LAT , No HAT, No AR, NO APC fired at us...


Nerfing cas wont change that ! Last time golden eagle got 100 kills with sniper by camping on fob on muttrah people are retarded ! They keep spawning and running like sheep, playing coop is more challenging !
Is it our fault if can get 70 kills in 20 minutes from the same FOB (Glitched in a T building) while hovering in front of it with the cobra ? Stuff like that was impossible few month ago...

The average player IQ is falling down at impressive rate if you keep nerfing asset at the same rate in few month we gonna play PR with BB guns so everybody can have fun (as you said on the forum)...


During Clan matches and tournaments CAS is shit when the enemy team know how to defend and build AAs.
Only 2 gunners (Viirus and myself) can get the 100 kills in gunships as far as i'm a aware and its only when the stars align in our favor (retarded team on both side).

But getting 100 kills with APCs/Tanks is much more common but yet we dont see people crying left and right about it. Getting high K/D with no communication, spotter and UAV/Commander is quite easy with armor almost impossible with CAS.

So nerfing Gunships because of 2 players is ridiculous. Also what is funny is that people say its too easy but do you know how "hard" we work to get those kills ?

People who played with us on teamspeak know that we are not randomly flying around UAV style. It is the complete opposite we rely heavily on UAV/Commander and ground spotters without them we perform very poorly... Next time you see us with a high K/D press CAPS lock and check for your self.

But Now Devs really need to define what is balance ? Because right now balance seems to be focused on getting a "fun experience" for the new player base with the same IQ as headless chicken that has started playing PR since it became a free-to-play game(no valid CD key). Or we balance the game when its played a its "best" (Clans matches or tournaments ).

The feeling that many of us have is that the "veterans" wants a more challenging game play while the new players want a soft version of PR with more forgiving game play and friendly UI (deviation brackets, No grey scoreboard, slower choppers...).

Last funny note its that people want SACLOS missiles for CAS and nerfed missile at the same time. But the consequence of that will be that the choppers will hover "UAV style" (Oxymoron UAV don't hover IG) since its the only way to fire accurately a SACLOS missile in PR because there is no stabilization and no splash against armor on ATGMS.
[F|H]Zackyx is offline Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 08:15 PM   #50
[R-CON]UTurista
PR:BF2 Contributor
Supporting Member
PR Server License Moderator

[R-CON]UTurista's Avatar
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

10, 100, 1000 kills that's not the issue, at least in my opinion, the issue is that the AA is not to CAS what TOWs are to tanks.

Very rarely I see tanks pushing to a Tow emplacement and wreck everything, usually they just avoid them and/or wait cordinate attacks with mortars/infantry but CAS, on the other hand, is quite famous to spam flares and destroy AA emplacements even when not lazed (ie: they just find an accurate marker and use the Dive approach that gives the 3D marker).
This is what upsets most players is that even a good net of AAs may fail to kill the enemy air assets.

And regarding the turn rate, what's the issue? Why can't just the pilot yaw to the right bearing instead of buffing the turn rate?


Dont question the wikipedia! Just because it reports different things on different languages does not make it unreliable source!
[R-CON]UTurista is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
attack, flares, heli, helis, missile, missiles, physics, rate, turn
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. ©vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
All Content Copyright ©2004 - 2015, Project Reality.