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Old 02-14-2016, 03:22 PM   #31
PatrickLA_CA

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brozef View Post
How about you guys remove the LG mode? It would definitely force more team work.
Then might as well remove choppers without cannons too because it is a very rare occurrence to get a valid laze when playing without a spotter of your own because a lot of people don't know how to place lazes down. Then there are those who can place lazes down but can't tell you what and where they are lazing. The third kind are those who are dead silent and don't really know that you can help them take out that tank on the hill that is mowing them down.
Of course, I'm not saying that you won't get any lazes at all because there are also a lot of people who can laze properly.

This makes CAS useless compared to other assets because if you take a look at tanks for example they can always follow the infantry around or look for targets because they are down there on the ground. But you can't do this with a CAS chopper or a jet for reasons stated in this thread as well as for people complaining about the UAV style of operating CAS choppers. Compared to the RL counterparts, at least the UK Apaches, they don't operate lower than 2000 ft in Afghanistan where they are safe from RPGs and small arms fire which can't be done in PR due to the view distances.

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Old 02-14-2016, 03:38 PM   #32
Navo
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickLA_CA View Post
Then might as well remove choppers without cannons too because it is a very rare occurrence to get a valid laze when playing without a spotter of your own because a lot of people don't know how to place lazes down. Then there are those who can place lazes down but can't tell you what and where they are lazing. The third kind are those who are dead silent and don't really know that you can help them take out that tank on the hill that is mowing them down.
Of course, I'm not saying that you won't get any lazes at all because there are also a lot of people who can laze properly.

This makes CAS useless compared to other assets because if you take a look at tanks for example they can always follow the infantry around or look for targets because they are down there on the ground. But you can't do this with a CAS chopper or a jet for reasons stated in this thread as well as for people complaining about the UAV style of operating CAS choppers. Compared to the RL counterparts, at least the UK Apaches, they don't operate lower than 2000 ft in Afghanistan where they are safe from RPGs and small arms fire which can't be done in PR due to the view distances.
Give CAS the capability to lase as well.
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:51 PM   #33
viirusiiseli
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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

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Originally Posted by Navo View Post
Give CAS the capability to lase as well.
lol









surely we're joking here guys?






...right?
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:47 PM   #34
Navo
Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

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Originally Posted by viirusiiseli View Post
lol









surely we're joking here guys?






...right?
Meh, just brainstorming how to make CAS less derp as it is now without making it OP. Remove LG, add lazer designater, improve helicopter handling instead of making them slow as shit for 'balance', improve CAS missiles.

Result: more milsim
, CAS way more survivable and reliant on pilot skill, gunner's job a bit more boring and reliant on PR's herp derp lazes (though as we can see in that video that may not be too far from reality), maybe.

Or we could just have Mats nerf CAS and watch the Based forums burn
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:41 PM   #35
PatrickLA_CA

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Yeah but the problem is that lazing from a helicopter doesn't work, take the Kiowa or any USMC chopper for example and you'll see. You have to be completely still.

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Old 02-14-2016, 08:53 PM   #36
X-Alt

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:43 AM   #37
Jacksonez__

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Alt View Post
What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.
How on earth is this speed calculated? I calculated ~190 km/h (Havoc speedometer was like 410-430). Isn't Havoc real life flight speed (not dive) like 300 km/h?

5 seconds
250 meters
50 m/s

14,5 seconds
600 m
41 m/s

Then I dived 700 m, took ~11,5-12 seconds. I had max velocity 830 (whatever unit it is), lowest velocity 420 at finish line. That would be around 220 km/h average speed according to basic maths. That dive was steep AF.

idk since nerfing CAS is a growing trend, devs might as well nerf it deep in oblivion.

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Last edited by Jacksonez__; 02-15-2016 at 03:51 AM..
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:53 AM   #38
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
Supporting Member

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Alt View Post
What if helicopters like the Hind and Havok were SACLOS? Rather than nerfing turn rates, force the East-bloc helicopters to guide it to the target the whole way through. Plus, a fix for the Hind speed would be nice, it's getting a bit ridiculous.
When we where implementing the Zhi-9WA with HJ-8s, which are Wire Guided SACLOS missiles, we did look at it again but decided that it was far too hard to hit the target with it and when with the "point and click, TV / Laser Guided" method all the other choppers have.

There are quite a few choppers ingame which should have that system so we could look into it, but it would also mean the attack helis where no longer mirror balanced if the Havok and Zhi-10W got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonez__ View Post
How on earth is this speed calculated?
Totally ignore the BF2 HUD speed, its totally off, hence why Mats has made a new python script to read the true speed for testing.

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Old 02-15-2016, 08:06 AM   #39
Rabbit

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Default re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Alt View Post
-snip-
And it is why every other person hates cas and it can end up with getting a ridiculous kdr. In my opinion for what PR is and the map sizes available there is no good way to make cas realistic and balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalianplant[x64] View Post
Thank god you are not an R-DEV anymore.With that mentality and low amount of game knowledge regarding attack helicopters/attack helicopter threats you would just ruin the mod even more.
Actually if I were still a dev I would continue to lobby to remove cas choppers.

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Old 02-15-2016, 08:07 AM   #40
solidfire93

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Unhappy re: Attack helis physics, flares and missiles

so the HUD speed on Trans and Attack heli are wrong ?
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