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Old 05-28-2012, 05:57 AM   #1
Hunt3r
Default Bradley and TOWs

Basically, the trouble with the Bradley in game is that it's basically crap as a tank destroyer right now.

Why, might you ask? A few reasons.

1. IRL Bradleys engage at more than 1000m with TOWs. This makes their gigantic 10 foot stature and clattering diesel engine harder to hear and spot.

2. Given proper terrain, the Bradley can engage targets with nothing more than the TOW launcher and the sights on top of the turret exposed.

3. Cannot compete with it's direct equivalent the BMP-3

Because the game gives the BMP-3 the same capability as the Bradley, but with a faster firing autocannon with greater power, a 100mm HE tosser, lower profile, ability to fire ATGMs immediately from a short halt, and two actually useful MGs in the hull. If we want to assume that these vehicles should be balanced, then the BMP-3 should basically die within a single burst of anything more powerful than 14.5mm AP, the effectiveness of 30mm APBC (yes, that's actually what is used in the autocannon, not APDS) should be drastically reduced compared to the 25mm APDS in the Bradley, and the TOWs on the Bradley should be instant death for any MBT on impact. Oh, and the sights on the Bradley should be moved up to the gunner's optics as they are IRL to make it possible for people to actually be able to set up defensive positions that aren't hilariously easy for an MBT to lolpwn.

TL;DR BMP-3s are OP, Bradleys are broken.


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Old 05-28-2012, 09:43 AM   #2
Stealthgato

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Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

I'll take a Bradley over a BMP-3 on Kashan anytime. You need to use it properly. I usually kill 2-3 T-72s with the Bradley on Kashan before I lose it.


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Old 05-28-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
[R-DEV]Rudd
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

I think the OP just summarised the plot to 'Pentagon Wars'!

YouTube Video


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Old 05-28-2012, 03:03 PM   #4
Bob of Mage
Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt3r View Post
3. Cannot compete with it's direct equivalent the BMP-3
The BMP-3 and M2 Bradley are not meant to be equal. The Bradley was meant to face BMP-2s when it was designed, not BMP-3s. The Bradley is from the early 80s while the BMP-3 was from the end of the decade. In this time it should be no shock that the USSR would try and one up their greatest foe. Such debate is a little point less as the BMP-2 and BMP-2M are going to replace most of the BMP-3s in PR.

[removed this line to avoid people responding to it again, it was needlessly insulting - Spec]
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Last edited by [R-DEV]Spec; 05-29-2012 at 10:03 PM..
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:55 PM   #5
Hunt3r
Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob of Mage View Post
The BMP-3 and M2 Bradley are not meant to be equal. The Bradley was meant to face BMP-2s when it was designed, not BMP-3s. The Bradley is from the early 80s while the BMP-3 was from the end of the decade. In this time it should be no shock that the USSR would try and one up their greatest foe. Such debate is a little point less as the BMP-2 and BMP-2M are going to replace most of the BMP-3s in PR.

[removed this line to avoid people responding to it again, it was needlessly insulting - Spec]
Yes, the M2A0 and BMP-3 are not meant to be equal.

The M2A2 ODS and BMP-3 should be.


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Old 06-02-2012, 12:42 AM   #6
Hunt3r
Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthgato View Post
I'll take a Bradley over a BMP-3 on Kashan anytime. You need to use it properly. I usually kill 2-3 T-72s with the Bradley on Kashan before I lose it.
The problem is that you can't. IRL you can set up from up to about 3 km away, and the only thing you show (if you set up right or are in a fighting emplacement is a TOW launcher and the things that protrude from the roof of the turret.


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Old 06-08-2012, 05:01 PM   #7
chrisweb89
Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

The bradley's main drawback in PR is just its design, which if we want to change, we can take the reality out of project reality.
1) Engagements as you know aren't at the same ranges as RL engagements, and because of this we have hellfires shooting at the same range as tank cannons, and HATs going the same distance as TOW missiles, this can't be fixed.
2)There are many hull downs for the Bradley, just like any vehicle in game, there is nothing in its current design that prevents finding a spot where only your turret sticks up.
3)The bradley in my opinion is much better at killing armour, when its missiles are prepared because of the double missiles, and not having to hope for a one shot kill, or finish them off with AP. The BMP is great because of its massive weapons, but thats RL design, something we can't change, and it has its own drawbacks.

The main thing that I wish would change with the current bradley ingame, is a turret unlock time after stopping with TOW loaded of 5 seconds(this isn't a realism number, but a gameplay number), a short loading time when going from AP to TOW, and already stationary(it can't/shouldn't take 15 seconds to switch fire control modes, and a faster missile, currently if you know where a bradley is, you can roll up and kill it before it is bale to fire both missiles at you in a tank because of their long flight time.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:42 AM   #8
Hunt3r
Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
1) Engagements as you know aren't at the same ranges as RL engagements, and because of this we have hellfires shooting at the same range as tank cannons, and HATs going the same distance as TOW missiles, this can't be fixed.
Fair point, but doesn't change the fact that the Bradley can't accomplish it's TD role in game right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
2)There are many hull downs for the Bradley, just like any vehicle in game, there is nothing in its current design that prevents finding a spot where only your turret sticks up.
That's the thing. The profile of a Bradley under ideal circumstances for a TD role isn't hull down, it's turret down.

Note the difference in profile of the top two photos compared to the bottom two. One is doable to shoot even at long range, the other is just about impossible. The Bradley is fully capable of acquiring and engaging targets from the position that you see in the top two photos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
3)The bradley in my opinion is much better at killing armour, when its missiles are prepared because of the double missiles, and not having to hope for a one shot kill, or finish them off with AP. The BMP is great because of its massive weapons, but thats RL design, something we can't change, and it has its own drawbacks.
The BMP-3 in game is cheap because of the way game mechanics are designed. Yes, it's a drawback that it only can load one missile at a time, but that's hardly a disadvantage when it has an autocannon that fires at 500 rpm. Even when AP doesn't do a ton of damage, the sheer rate of fire makes it incredibly easy to finish off a tank. The Bradley doesn't have this luxury, and firing off a second ATGM takes longer than just finishing off the enemy with AP rounds, which would make sense in the Bradley if it weren't for the fact that it only fires at 200 RPM. Oh, and the fact that the BMP-3 IRL is loaded with APCBC and the Bradley these days fires APFSDS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
The main thing that I wish would change with the current bradley ingame, is a turret unlock time after stopping with TOW loaded of 5 seconds(this isn't a realism number, but a gameplay number), a short loading time when going from AP to TOW, and already stationary(it can't/shouldn't take 15 seconds to switch fire control modes, and a faster missile, currently if you know where a bradley is, you can roll up and kill it before it is bale to fire both missiles at you in a tank because of their long flight time.
1. ATGM flight time should be kept low, the TOW is incredibly slow IRL and it's important to maintain a realistic character in this aspect.

2. Yes, the TOW setup time should be vastly reduced. IRL you don't feel that setup time nearly as much as you do in this game, because at 3km with a turret down pos you spend a drastically lower amount of time staring down the long barrel of a 125mm cannon.


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Old 06-10-2012, 05:04 AM   #9
Conman51

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Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

The TOW warm up time for the Bradley is really stupid and long. On kashan the Americans are at a bad disadvantage especially since the MEC get the MTLB with TOW and the BMP can pretty much just point and shoot its missile.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
-Mark Twain



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Old 06-10-2012, 07:49 AM   #10
Zemciugas

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Default Re: Bradley and TOWs

In other words, the op is pissed off because he gets his ass handed to him by a bmp3. No surprise when the bradley is almost as big/high as a tank - easy target for anyone. Furthermore the bradley should stop at main to rearm the 2 rockets. The last time I checked the crew need to manualy reload it by getting out of the apc while the bmp3 haves a autoloader.

TL;DR Bradley design is broken and op wants the bmp3 to be an easy kill for anything.

Also the bradley is not a tank destroyer, it only haves the capability, but it's a troop transport, you shouldn't be going with it against tanks in the frontline, only if there's no other choice.


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