project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > PR:BF2 Mod Forums > PR:BF2 Feedback > Maps
20 Nov 2017, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Forum RulesDeveloper Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2010, 09:42 AM   #1
dtacs
Supporting Member

dtacs's Avatar
Default Dragonfly: A rough diamond



Note if any Mod/Dev deems this a suggestion thread as opposed to feedback, please move it accordingly.

Abstract/Premise

Lastnight on the NwA server, I lead a squad of 5 Brit infantry across the map, fighting over pretty much the whole city, the Train Depot, and the Militia Deployment Area. We managed to win at the end, and I must say it was a hell of a game despite wiping multiple times and even getting backcapped at the end. There were a number of key problems identified but it also showed how successful and fun the map can be despite its history of being a 'laggy POS where the British always get capped back to their main'

Multiple times throughout the round there were comments at how crap the map was and how it should be skipped, however in due time there were retorts with how the map is actually quite decent as some people managed to find.

Note that this is not the first time I have played Dragonfly, but I can safely say it is currently one of my favorite AAS maps for the combat environment and immersion that it offers.

Note that the following viewpoint is written from playing the Standard layer and not the skirmish or infantry layers, as I have rarely seem them played.

Pros

Infantry Combat.

The city currently offers one of the best infantry combat experiences around. All buildings are enterable, meaning that room clearance and second-checking is mandatory to ensure all enemies are off the flag. Decent cover in the open ground including random gardens and dead tanks help the infantry move from building to building, clearing the flag.

Armor has a tough time going into the city but with infantry help can really do some bad damage, whilst still having the ability so succumb to environmental effects such as craters that it can get stuck in, and dragon's teeth/tank-traps to stem quick movement.

It literally is the definition of the world where infantry reigns supreme.

An immersive, realistic environment.

One thing that I adore about Dragonfly is the placement of statics and the overall demeanor it portrays. Random tanks, garbage heaps and lots of weirdly placed undergrowth and rocks make a cool, unique environment to fight in.

Although ideally the Russians would feature, it is still pretty fun with the British.

Great balance of assets to both teams.

I have found little issue with the balance of assets, as the T62 is a formidable foe to the C2 if it manages to get the upper hand on it. Tandem warheads ensure that the British armor has to take it cautiously or risk getting shot in the rear and dying in one shot, as there are lots of ways for infantry to sideswipe armor

Cons


Flags.

Currently, at any one time there are only a certain number of flags up, usually with the British first flag (Train Depot, NW/NE Fields) being frustratingly close to the Militia temporary spawns.

As an example, I ran Dragonfly multiple times to get different flag layouts to demonstrate how often the British and the Militia meet up at the first flag. I'll use Train Depot, because that is the most popular flag which is first for the British, and majority of players have experience fighting near it.

The biggest problem that stems from the Train Depot as the first flag for both teams is that the Militia often reach the flag before the British do, causing them to have the upper hand of numbers as opposed to firebases, supplies and assets. Keeping the flag busy for a number of minutes, the T62 and BRDM can arrive and wreak havoc if the British armor is not quick enough or has decided to try and ninja round the north side of the map.


A quick British rollout is crucial in order to cap the first flag from the Militia. In this case regardless of speed, the Militia still beat us to the flag cap.

Simply put, a solution to the problem of having both sides attack the first flag is to have the Militia cap a compulsory 2nd flag in the city. Adding a second flag means that from the get-go the fighting begins on the outskirts of the city, increasing pressure on both sides to drive eachother out, whilst still giving the option to rush eachothers' first flags in order to avoid a stalemate.

Simply put, the Militia can defend the river area from the encroaching Brits whilst they organize an attack to get a foothold in the city.

Fields.

As the cornfields were removed for graphics issues, the current replacement fields seem too large in comparison with the rest of the environment. While they do give the option to hide in to avoid getting spotted by infantry, British armor can still see through the leaves, and with the NW fields being a relevant flag, make it hard for the Militia to cap the flag, let alone get up to it without being noticed.



The North West Fields flag is open and remote, meaning that its hard for infantry to move in if no anti-armor support is available.

The ideal solution is to add more static objects or even extend the city across the map, however I understand that this does take considerable effort, however increasing the height of the field will drastically increase the survivability of troops trying to hide, and will provide ample concealment for anyone trying to escape enemies.

Overly complex British main.

Almost every rollout on British people get confused as to where to go. I've found people on numerous occasions jumping over HESCO barriers and guard posts instead of just walking around as intended.


The odd placement of the repair station and the maze of walls confuses players, and the odd placement of the base overall leads one to question how realistic it is.

The British are the attacking force, and its confusing to see them with a large maze of HESCO barriers with some areas that are utterly useless and never accessed. The helipad is very small, and I've seen the Lynx flip over and get snagged on some walls.

A simple alternative would be to have a small HESCO square with a few tents or something set up. With the Militia so close, it would have made sense for them to mortar/harass the building process, and considering the British are Marines, they wouldn't have been so close setting up a large outpost (right?)

I hope this provides some insight on the map for improvements in the future.

dtacs
dtacs is offline Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 08:32 AM   #2
amazing_retard
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

I used to hate to avoid this map like the plague also. But after a fun round I find it quiet enjoyable. The city is easily one of the most fun environments to fight in PR. It really feels like Chechnya and it suits the militia quiet well. Here are my suggestions:

1. Remove the British and add Russians. This is simply for immersion and realism. It just seems that it is more likely for the Russians to be in this type scenario than the British. It would make it feel more like Chechnya which is loads more fun

2. Make sure most of the fighting is in the city. Most of the community prefers urban warfare, and the city is too awesome to miss. Allowing the battle to come into the city simply provides better game play.

3. In order to accomplish #2 I believe that the Northwest fields should be removed. It is totally flat and uninteresting compared to the rest of the map. The removal of 1 or 2 of the outside flags should mean more interesting game play inside the city. Adding more statics to that field may cause even more people to lag, which is simply not something this map needs.

Other than that I agree with everything you say.

If your still lagging on this map try to lower your view distance slightly (last ditch of-course).
amazing_retard is offline Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 08:42 AM   #3
Rudd
Retired PR Developer
Supporting Member

Rudd's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

I'm afraid that without IronTaxi going active again the Brit main etc isn't going to be changed, as only he has the Lightmap files that would be used to create the proper lightmap atlases once the objects are changed and re-lmed.

Quote:
The ideal solution is to add more static objects or even extend the city across the map, however I understand that this does take considerable effort, however increasing the height of the field will drastically increase the survivability of troops trying to hide, and will provide ample concealment for anyone trying to escape enemies.
I spent hours optimising this map, its either short fields or no fields as far as I can see.

even without teh SPG9s etc the militia gave the Brits hell whenever I played pre-9, are you sure that this isn't a case of incorrect tactics? If you are in a disadvantageous position...perhaps its better to change your position than to change the map?

Your point regarding rushing the First Brit cap flag is a common problem imo, and the only way I can see this being fixed without removing the first spawn advantage of the Militia so they can defend their AT guns is to give the Brits, or indeed 'the attackers' on any given map a one use only area attack at the start of the game. A kind of 'pre-registered' artillery. However both sides need to have fun, being pwned for the first 20mins would suck a bit for either side. Both sides need an equal chance to win, so sometimes I worry that people think that their side should always win...


Rudd is offline Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 09:50 AM   #4
dtacs
Supporting Member

dtacs's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

The AT guns are a balanced and unique asset, with the right tactics they can be taken out and I've seen no problem with it. Its just the substantial risk of the Brits getting capped out straight away before the armor can muster a decent attack on train depot/NW fields.

Fair enough for the fields point, after playing again lastnight and attacking NW fields I acutally found it was quite easy to slip past the armor onto the cap. We got a full 5 man squad onto the cap and capped the flag while there was 2 roaming C2's and a Warrior. We capped and held for about 10 minutes, until the APC finally found our position. Due to the open area however, it leaves little to the Brits' imaginations as to where we could have been hiding though.



The most logical idea would be to move the flag further east, towards where we were hiding so the infantry actually have more than a couple of places to hide.

Quote:
1. Remove the British and add Russians. This is simply for immersion and realism. It just seems that it is more likely for the Russians to be in this type scenario than the British. It would make it feel more like Chechnya which is loads more fun
Honestly its a good map with Brits, of course it would be significantly more realistic with Russians, but we will no doubt see more Russian v Militia maps in the future. Its realistic, unique and offers a good combat environment.
dtacs is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 03:25 AM   #5
Pvt.LHeureux
-

Pvt.LHeureux's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

I think this map really need to keep the Brits, the maker wanted to make the map to looks like Children of Men movie and it really worked. The C2 and Warrior sounds really put you in the atmosphere. Its a really good map, need some improvement with the fields of course.

Chuva_RD : You want to remove bugged thing but dont tell how to fill formed void.
Pvt.LHeureux is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 06:11 AM   #6
Redamare
Supporting Member

Redamare's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

sadly i was never able to play a game on this map due to Performance issues . . . when ever i joined a server and my performance was adequate i was stuck within the city on the 64 versions i could never make it out of the deployment area without my game crashing . . . there is somthing about the map that doesnt always allow me to join aswell .. . form what ive played the city is set up Great always have a good round fightging within those apartment buildings . . . like you guys were saying before there are some changes that need to be taken to revive this map to its fullest abilities

Redamare is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 08:56 AM   #7
Doc.Pock

Doc.Pock's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

wow you realy took your time at this. i tottaly agree bout everything
Doc.Pock is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #8
Kain888
Supporting Member

Kain888's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

I really enjoy Dragonfly. What this map strongly needs is bleed. If Milita recaps North West Fields it's often stalemate and boring gameplay.

Kain888 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 12:47 AM   #9
Nebsif
Supporting Member

Nebsif's Avatar
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

^ +1. Played it too yesterday, we as militia had field in control and it went really boring after that, but overall its one of my fav maps. Having Russians instead of Brits with this baby in my sig would be uber awesum but I doubt it'd evar happen, so far ive always switched to militia on this map as I find it way more fun and it kinda adds for the immersion imo ^^.

Nebsif is offline
Last edited by Nebsif; 12-22-2010 at 12:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 05:03 AM   #10
PLODDITHANLEY
Supporting Member
Default Re: Dragonfly: A rough diamond

Played it with PRTA last night and in PRT.

Nice pretty map, but as Militia you always seem to spend time hiding from brit armour (no fun) whilst trying to dislodge inf from buildings (fun).

Always seems to start with Militia being aggressive and attacking then game play slows down as people hide more, the point is that as last night it seems depressing spending so much time hiding but Militia do often win on tickets.
PLODDITHANLEY is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
0.95, 095, diamond, dragon, dragonfly, feedback, fly, rough
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin. ©vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
All Content Copyright ©2004 - 2015, Project Reality.