Insurgency completely ruined

[ANDROMEDA]

I always notice one thing. During the regular army team plays squads and very organized. But as soon as this team starts playing for the insurgents, it loses all of its organization and disappears team game. People go by themselves, are dying every minute, silent and much resistance BLUFOR not have.

This happens not always but very often. A simple majority does not like to play insurgent-mode. Rather like, but not for the insurgents.

So I think we all need to think and propose here to the developers how to make the insurgent-mode more attractive to both sides, and not to say that the insurgents suck or this mode is ruined!

[ReapersWarrior]

I was squad leading on Al Basrah yesterday doing an amazing job on the british team. We managed to get 5 Cashes destroyed and built firebases, conserved assets and did everything right banking 225 tickets with 2 caches left. From then on it all went downhill as we ended up losing the round.

This might be due to cache placement, but we had an awful time trying to get into the city. The sheer number of snipers was killing me and my squad rather quickly and we had to cross big open areas to get to the city which didnt help. The insurgents locked down the city and were able to win where i though we had this game in the bag by a mile. I was truely surprised when we lost.

I think the problem with insurgency is not so much the tickets, or number of caches that you need to get. Its the maps, their degree of difficulty, and the tactics of the players. I think each map should have their own particular rules, maybe 5 caches for a map like koregal valley, and 10 for al basrah. Or have 3 spawn at once on ramiel to make it easier, but have 8 caches.

There are so many factors that are required to make the game balanced. I enjoy insurgency alot more now then i did it the past. I think the whole approach to this gametype was changed in 0.9 as now it is worth it to be an insurgent and ambush, the other team does not have the abitity of spawing on rallies which can cripple them. On the other hand they have to defend better because they have less caches.

In short, Insurgency will never be perfect, some rounds blufor will get slaughtered, some they will dominate. There is so many factors its hard to balance. The Dev's have done an amazing job with this gametype and I love it more then AAS. I think tweaking the rules is necessary for maps, not gametype. And even then, the gametype will not be perfect.

[mosinmatt]

I have seen the INS win plenty of times. It all depends on how well the team plays, and where the caches pop up.
Remember, IEDs do less damage, and blufor now get TANKS on more maps. There is very little the INS can do to the tank, besides trying to sneak up on it and place a mine under it.
Civilians also play a good role. They slow Blufor respawn and kit times.
It takes skill and more organization to play as INS now, which is great.

[RedAlertSF]

God damn, another victory for Hamas in Gaza Beach. We were so close..but then we failed. I destroyed 3 caches with only one friend. Needed just some brain and luck and it was easy when insurgents revealed the cache locations for us by shooting from cache buildings. It was great, with 2 more caches destroyed by someone else we needed just two. And ALL three remaining caches were in the G5/G6/H5/H6 compound. We had 80 tickets but there was no teamwork at all and we just wasted tickets and lost. We had a FOB in F5 but our team was just sitting there and getting killed. Unbelieveable.

[mosinmatt]

I should note that it is a BIG new release. There are also a TON more new players. Many from Vanilla BF2, or from something like MW2 where team work isnt needed, it is just a shoot everything game.
So we have these new players clogging up the servers, that grab the nearest jeep or vehicle and CHARGE! It is amazing how many single crewed techies and humves i see. Even APCs and tanks!
These MW2ers are fighting for a kill count, and to just point their mouse at something to shoot it. It is especially true on INS maps when they intentionally shoot civilians or run them over.
Give it time. They will either learn to play the game, or get board and go back to their Xbox.

[Grauers]

Originally Posted by ANDROMEDA

I always notice one thing. During the regular army team plays squads and very organized. But as soon as this team starts playing for the insurgents, it loses all of its organization and disappears team game. People go by themselves, are dying every minute, silent and much resistance BLUFOR not have.

This happens not always but very often. A simple majority does not like to play insurgent-mode. Rather like, but not for the insurgents.

So I think we all need to think and propose here to the developers how to make the insurgent-mode more attractive to both sides, and not to say that the insurgents suck or this mode is ruined!

I love beeing an insurgnent, specially on Fallujah West.. Nothing beats taking out APC's and humVs with RPG and IEDs.. All those APC whores are nothing but stupid noobs who arent up for the real challengne of playing as an insurgent with AK and Molotovs against the GIs and their M4s.

[Cassius]

Originally Posted by dtacs

His comment holds some water.

Today on Karbala we simply won by every member on the team rolling in and using numbers to overwhelm the Insurgents (in quite a reversal of roles really) The amount of tickets given back to the blufor is way too high. We lost multiple APCs, jeeps, and logi trucks yet we came out on top with over 200 tickets to go, simply due to the zerg effect.

tl;dr agree with OP.

Actually if your team pulled that off, simply assembling the whole team and ganging up on a cache is more teamwork than I see elsewhere.

[badmojo420]

0.8 = 34 tickets per cache
0.9 = 57 tickets per cache

In 0.87 we had 10 caches giving the coalition 10 tickets per cache destroyed.
In 0.9 we have 7 caches giving the coalition 25 tickets per cache destroyed.

In 0.8... 250 (starting tickets) + 10 * 9(9 since the last cache doesn't give any usable tickets) = 340 tickets

Divide that by the number of caches (10) and we get 34 tickets per cache.

In 0.9... 250 + 25 * 6 = 400 tickets

Divided by 7 and we get 57 tickets per cache.

Personally, I think 57 tickets is too many tickets for each cache.

[Rudd]

I think each insurgency map needs to be looked at as an individual, since they are all so very different.

I think some are great, others need work. Fallujah is perfect right now for example, Laskar valley is perfectly solid, korengal is hit and miss, etc.

[nex911]

Originally Posted by badmojo420

0.8 = 34 tickets per cache
0.9 = 57 tickets per cache

In 0.87 we had 10 caches giving the coalition 10 tickets per cache destroyed.
In 0.9 we have 7 caches giving the coalition 25 tickets per cache destroyed.

I think this pretty much nails it. Perhaps my 1 in 10 comment was extreme, but the server I play on tends to have much better teamwork on the BLUEFOR side than most. Combine the extra tickets with an organized BLUEFOR team and the difference is overwhelming.

Personally, I think the devs should have just reduced the caches to 7 and left the ticket system alone. A large percentage of rounds in 0.87 resulted in the insurgents having fewer than 3 caches remaining. It seems the most common reason for a BLUEFOR loss is poor or nonexistent FOB placement.

In any case, the mode just *feels* wrong to me now. The BLUEFOR act more like berzerking Zulu warriors than a modern army.