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Old 02-22-2011, 10:15 PM   #1
badmojo420
Supporting Member
Default Cache spawning

I think spawning on purple (hidden) caches should be disabled.

I think having them spawnable is counter-productive for the insurgents. People use them as a base of attack and supply depot. Ignoring the need for hideouts and de-valuing the logistics trucks. Not to mention giving away the hidden location of our enemies objective.

Also, on top of that, the people playing properly (defending the known cache) are becoming bored because the coalition are being engaged at the unknown cache. Which leads to people leaving their positions and wondering around the map, engaging in head-on battles with the coalition, rather than using ambush tactics.

I'm not saying people can't handle waiting a little while for the coalition. In fact, that waiting around helps makes PR a great game. What I'm saying is that most of the team will be working together defending the known cache, but due to a few people spawning on the unknowns rather than somewhere further, the known sees very little action while 3-4 unknowns go down. Which leads to boredom and hurts moral.

Better administration you say? Well, that's the tricky part. Even with admins being completely anal about it, it still happens constantly. You would literally have to sit there and watch the map the whole game to stop it from happening.

And, it's even debatable weather being near the unknown cache is good or bad. I personally think, if it's done right, a couple people around an unknown can save it from being discovered sometimes.

But, I know for sure, that giving the whole team an easy spawn on our hidden objective will 90% of the time result in at least a few people ignoring secrecy and using it as a spawn & point of attack.

Discuss.
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Last edited by badmojo420; 02-23-2011 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 PM   #2
ChiefRyza

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Default Re: Cache spawning

Remove the second cache - one at a time equals a more focused fight without having your team being spread across the entire map. Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.


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Old 02-22-2011, 10:48 PM   #3
badmojo420
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Default Re: Cache spawning

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]ChiefRyza View Post
Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.
But, they only drive over and take it because someone spawned there.

If every insurgent hid in the main when the caches are unknown, the coalition would have a VERY difficult time of playing the game. It's in the hands of the insurgents to give the game away, which is happening too much due to spawning on the unknowns.

I don't think switching to 1 cache will help, people will simply spawn on the 1 unknown.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:29 AM   #4
Rissien
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Default Re: Cache spawning

So many times, just one guy spawning. Or especially the case of those people who just HAVE to grab a cache kit and just cant contain themselves and fire at a BLUFOR vehicle or inf thus giving the cache away. More unknowns go down in our server than knowns half the time because of one person being stupid and giving the unknown away just by his mere presence.


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Old 02-23-2011, 12:58 AM   #5
[R-CON]Psyrus
PR:BF2 Contributor
Default Re: Cache spawning

I had a similar thought a month ago, and from that discussion I think the combination of your (badmojo) and ChiefRyza's points is optimal. Here is how I would set up insurgency for the next version if I were the head honcho.

First cache is spawned and known at the start of the map as it is currently.

At the 50% intel mark (25 points), a new cache spawns... the unknown. However at this point it is not spawnable. Gives the insurgents an indication that the blufor are making progress in sussing out the new cache location, as well as giving the insurgents a heads-up as to where it will be when known.

Then when the 100% intel comes (50 points), the new cache becomes spawnable and the insurgents get their 5 minutes to [set up dogboxes]* and mines etc to ready themselves for the blufor assault.

The reasoning behind this method is twofold. It is for the insurgents to have time with only 1 cache to worry about between them being killed, and also to ascertain how quickly intel is being fed to the blufor team. If your new unknown pops up really quickly after another has died, you can be sure the blufor are gathering intel quickly, and you may wish to send a car full of a squad to the unknown to have a bit of extra time to set up defenses. This is then a decision by the team/squad, not some random guy thinking 'hmm yeah I think that spawn looks good' as it currently stands. The 25 intel requirement for new cache spawning is the simulation of the new cell's cache gathering time, getting the new weapons in position etc.

---------
Dogboxes*: I would be interested in seeing how the following dynamic would work. Currently the most optimal dogbox setup around a cache is three (for each) dogboxes organized ideally in a [near] equilateral triangle with sides being >=200m long. This results in each dogbox being roughly no further than ______ from the cache, covering most assault avenues. (I sadly couldn't work out the math on the distance of the center of a equilateral triangle of 200m sides... *fail uni student*)

I would try the system of the cache remaining spawnable whilst known [with the same overrun rules as FOBs], however the dogboxes couldn't be placed closer than 200m from the cache. This is just a slightly different dynamic to the current one, and would serve to reinforce known cache defense and reward insurgent teams that keep the US team >50m away from the cache. It also means that the insurgents, on average, have much further to run if they allow the cache to be overrun, which should give them a bigger incentive to not let the US get too close.

It also serves to stop dogboxes being used as informants like I do - my triangle dogboxes allow me to gauge roughly which direction the US are sneaking up from or attacking from, depending on which go down. This allows the ins team to preemptively move the majority of the forces to that side to beat back the assault, and then quickly recreate the dogbox for future info on assault routes. If they had to be minimum 200m from the cache, they'd be further apart and thus less likely to be accidentally overrun by approaching squads.

brenn4n [My Hero]: I'm not going to fix it for Europeans because you have enough servers and because there's people in Australia and Japan that have always suffered with pings at least 240ms. This is their only opportunity to play PR at a more comfortable latency since nobody has ever thought of having one in LA like we do.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:07 AM   #6
Haji with a Handgun

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Default Re: Cache spawning

I must be new here, what's a dogbox?

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Old 02-23-2011, 01:31 AM   #7
Dev1200

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Default Re: Cache spawning

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]ChiefRyza View Post
Remove the second cache - one at a time equals a more focused fight without having your team being spread across the entire map. Having two cache locations means you spend all your time defending the known cache, then when an unknown appears, the coalition can just drive a couple Humvees over un-opposed and take it out.
Not being able to spawn on the cache = cache stays undefended until they can see it.

Also, wtf dogbox?


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Old 02-23-2011, 01:41 AM   #8
dtacs
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Default Re: Cache spawning

A dogbox is the solely Australian/New Zealand term for an Insurgent/Hamas/Taliban hideout, named as such since it looks sort of like a dogs kennel.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:34 AM   #9
Vanya

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Default Re: Cache spawning

I kind of like the idea of not being able to spawn at the cache. Maybe only spawnable after it is know. I just so desperately want people to put of ...dogboxs.

But to say no one should ever spawn at an unknown is down right, well, simple minded. (by all means i don't mean that as an insult. Well maybe a tiny bit. Super tiny if that helps. JK)

Its like saying here I got you an oreo and im going to put it in this other room with the fat guy that loves oreos. No, don't worry there is a small chance he will eat it and if he does you will hear him. You might even get to see him finish it if you run.

I love Oreos.

I digress, it isn't the fact that people spawn at the unknown it is what they do once they are there.

Lets not change the game for those "special" people that fire rps from the cache lets educate them.


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Old 02-23-2011, 02:45 AM   #10
[R-CON]Psyrus
PR:BF2 Contributor
Default Re: Cache spawning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya View Post
I digress, it isn't the fact that people spawn at the unknown it is what they do once they are there.

Lets not change the game for those "special" people that fire rps from the cache lets educate them.
At the same time though, the game was changed for those "special" people who insisted on single crewing armour despite the 30 second gun warmup time; an additional check that a driver was present when entering the gunner's position was added.

I would say it's the majority of unknown spawners that are detrimental to the insurgent side, not the minority as I think you might be suggesting? As in my linked thread, there are of course some individuals that you'd want around an unknown cache... but in the implementation I detailed they can walk/drive there and set up a dogbox hideout if need be, and it wouldn't be laziness as the factor that results in people around the unknown, but a realized purpose of coordinated defense

brenn4n [My Hero]: I'm not going to fix it for Europeans because you have enough servers and because there's people in Australia and Japan that have always suffered with pings at least 240ms. This is their only opportunity to play PR at a more comfortable latency since nobody has ever thought of having one in LA like we do.
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